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Racing Turtles

@zenosanalytic / zenosanalytic.tumblr.com

"Why run, my little Phoenician?"
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stuckinapril

Holy shit. The Israeli whistleblower story CNN just broke is insane. I cannot believe what I’m reading

Rare firsthand accounts by Israeli whistleblowers cast light on the horrific conditions in the Sde Teiman torture camp in Naqab Desert. Palestinians are stripped down, blindfolded, forced in diapers, and forbidden from speaking. They are subjected to beatings and mental degradation regularly. So much depravity that has gone unseen. Doctors performing procedures outside of their expertise, amputations due to zip-typing of abductees’ wrists, having large dogs unleashed on them at night. Being fed food through straws. I can’t believe it. I am truly in shock. And this is just one whistleblower accounting of this. Who knows what else is happening beyond our knowledge

My heart is breaking into a million pieces

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fairuzfan

Worth mentioning that multiple Palestinians have recounted these stories before, as direct victims detailing their experiences. What's unique about these accounts from CNN Israeli whistle-blower is that they're from an Israeli, therefore people are more likely to take this seriously.

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Too real, I see this all the time. Joking about how certain people in prison should be taken care of or molested. Two wrongs doesn’t make a right

this is not argue with you just adding opnions /gen

i wholehearted agree with you except for crimes against children then by all means let them rot not death but rotting in prison, death is too good for them

@fall-ofachilles, this post is about you. If crimes against children receive extra-special punishment, then the State is directly incentivized to find an angle by which to define the people it doesn't like as having committed crimes against children.

Y'know, such as defining Existing While Queer as a sex-crime against children. For an extremely non-hypothetical, entirely real world example.

markadoo

I find this response unsatisfying.

Op says "A lot of people purport to believe fully in rehabilitation but really only apply it to crimes they consider forgivable."

Fall says "I agree except for class A of crime, which I consider unforgivable."

Frustrated says "But what if they included crimes you consider forgivable in class A?"

And Frustrated is right, people HAVE been including crimes that Fall considers forgivable in class A. But Frustrated still has not addressed the core disagreement that Fall failed to see between itself and op, which is that there should be NO crimes on the "rot in prison" list. Frustrated saying "but what if they put the wrong crimes on the rot in prison list" does nothing to affirm the original post. Frustrated has not challenged Fall's view that certain crimes merit rotting in prison.

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loki-zen

I mean a valid reason to be against a kind of punishment is "the state cannot be trusted with the power to do this to people." Some people have different reasons. But they can both be against that kind of punishment together.

sure, but that's not "believing in rehabilitative justice", which is what this post is supposed to be about. Like, there's someone in the reblogs straight up saying "You shouldn't oppose the death penalty because pedophiles don't deserve to be punished, you should oppose the death penalty because it won't be the actual pedophiles who are punished." They don't believe in rehabilitative justice at all, they just don't think pursuing carceral justice is the best course of action right now.

I'm tired of my philosophical opponents thinking they agree with me just because they're my political allies.

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sirblazebot

I almost agree with this, and everyone here makes great philosophical points and also many factual political observations.

Except I wholly believe that pedophiles do not deserve rehabilitation and absolutely SHOULD be skinned alive. Slowly.

So you're saying:

AKA you do not believe in rehabilitative justice.

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beyond parody

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wizardshark

people on twitter did some research and discovered that this particular prison was one of the originals to implement the idea of the Panopticon too.

Not to be a bitch or anything, but if you can't tell just by LOOKING at this that it was a Panopticon maybe read that wikipage again |:T

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callese

🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃

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skyvoice

you know what. i am physically sick as hell this week so i'll bite. i read the original slate article, which is free to read so i don't know why OP chose to screenshot instead of let people draw their own conclusions. i agree with MANY of the writer's points on the need for comprehensive criminal justice reform, but i also care a lot about numbers and stats and increasingly, this bullshit "democrats are the same as republicans" messaging is straight-up delivered using propaganda tactics

this is going to be an incredibly long post and i had to use GOOGLE SLIDES and GOOGLE SHEETS which i hate so so much so in the words of twitter kpop stans please don't let this flop

let's look at the numbers, claim by claim

claim #1: "the number of people held in ICE detention has increased by 70 percent since Biden took office"

  • if you click through 3 link layers from the slate you land at cbs as the source for this which tells you that mainstream media is certainly not immune to playing with stats to make the democrats look bad
  • fortunately ICE detention stats are easily publicly available thanks to the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, which does the lord's work of crawling through federal agency publications and submitting tedious FOIA requests to collate useful data
  • here is the data -- not only was cbs not wrong about the total number of detainees at the time of publication (25k in aug 2021), but the increase from when biden was inaugurated is actually 90%, not 70%. look:
  • well holy shit!!! that's terrible. biden is the worst and he hates immigration reform and the democrats are no different from trump, right?
  • but if you zoom out
  • actually, Jan/Feb 2021 was at the absolute low for detainees, after a full year of covid restrictions slowing down or minimizing gov't operations of all kinds AND reducing border volume
  • and if you actually want to compare the biden admin to the trump admin?
  • relative to Aug of 2019, after 18 months the biden admin has reached a 56% decrease in the number of detainees. even if you look at only the month before COVID lockdowns really hit, it's still nearly a 40% decrease
  • and to put the total numbers in perspective, at NO point before COVID did the trump admin have fewer than 30k people in ICE detention. most of the time it was well above 40k, or about 2x more than under biden
  • that's not to say that immigration reform isn't still needed, but it IS to say that myopically comparing current-state to january 2021, aka one of the WEIRDEST months statistically on record ever, is going to give you crap perspective

claim #2: "the federal prison population has grown for the first time in a decade"

  • (note i've only included data from 2005 onward so it's easier to actually see what's going on in the last 10 years. for those who like math, these are CAGRs calculated over each presidential term)
  • but there it is -- decline in populations accelerated under trump. surely both parties same. surely democrats actually worse than republicans
  • but wait, what's that?
  • that can't be ...
  • SPIDERS GEORG????
  • WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE
  • ARE YOU SAYING THAT ... THERE IS AN OUTLIER?
  • THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN COUNTED?
  • now that assumes trump wasn't successful at slowing down the momentum from the obama years
  • this is what it might have looked like had we perhaps ended up with a second trump term:
  • again this isn't to say that biden is pure and perfect on criminal justice, even if there were some agreed-upon definition of what pure and perfect legislative or policy priorities would look like
  • it's to put the context back into place around the data
  • are the democrats and republicans actually the same or are we being fed a diet of pruned stats and catchphrases to make us simultaneously angry and disempowered

last claim: "federal covid relief funds are being used to pad local police budgets"

SO all of that to say

  • we don't stop pushing for immigration or criminal justice reform
  • or any other reform that is sorely needed
  • but using data in incredibly selective ways, out of context, to promote a narrative that somehow democrats are the same or even worse than republicans
  • ESPECIALLY the republicans of today
  • is literally propaganda
  • propaganda by definition uses kernels of truth and then presents it in a biased way to attempt to push a narrative
  • pretending that the democrats are exactly the same as the republicans is propaganda, and i'm like 80% sure it's right-wing propaganda designed to discourage left-wing turnout that has somehow been accepted by an online population that doesn't understand statistics
  • so like
  • understand statistics
  • do a bit of research
  • draw conclusions that you can back up
  • and for fuck's sake, vote

Some time has passed. Have your views changed, at all?

i think this question is for me so i will try to answer briefly, though lmk if it was intended for op lmao

also i'll answer on the assumption it was asked in good faith:

do i still think that democrats and republicans are not the same? yes; i don't have the time today to refresh charts etc., but a very quick glance at the same sources i used the first time around looks like the numbers have remained more or less stable. happy to take correction here if anyone has more time to delve

  • importantly, we are also already seeing the impact of elected democrats at both national and state / local levels. there are many many many sources covering what has been done federally (or attempted in the face of GOP obstructionism) both from mainstream news sources (think NPR, Hill, WaPo, the recently-deservedly-maligned NYT, etc.) and on tumblr itself, so i won't do the google work here
  • at the state level, states that put democrats in power during the midterms are already seeing legislation and orders being put in place for abortion rights and LGBTQ+ protections -- something visible on any map showing where "safe(ish)" states are
  • in michigan alone where dems won a trifecta for the first time in decades we've repealed anti-union legislation, enacted increased background checks for gun purchases, repealed the draconian 1931 abortion law set to take effect post-Roe, and passed protections for sexual orientation and gender identity
  • so much for democrats being the same or worse than republicans

on immigration specifically, do i think reform is still needed? yes; in particular i do think there should be close scrutiny of how the numbers trend as the biden admin continues to announce and enact its proposed policies if the PHE does indeed expire in may

  • with that said, i think any truly focused analysis should consider the context of those numbers as well -- the quick-and-dirty i did looked only at raw numbers, not conditions of detention, enforcement approach, targeted or prioritized nationalities, and many other factors that provide a better picture of what is actually happening at the southern US border

on criminal justice specifically, do i think reform is still needed? yes; and importantly here it's worth keeping track of what the dem white house and dem congresspeople are trying to do vs what is able to happen (e.g. George Floyd Act)

  • i won't get into a long screed here on the need for tumblr and voters broadly to understand how laws get passed (or don't get passed bc they get stuck eternally in committee) but even pre-midterms we had valuable laws trapped in congressional deadlock. midterm losses weren't nearly as bad as they could have been, but it's still a tighter margin with a deeply-intractable set of republicans -- whose inaction should be emphasized and considered when it comes time to vote
  • it's also worth noting that the comparison here is between a party that on average acknowledges racial disparity in policing even if they don't always agree on the approach / align with the leftmost demands on how to address the problem vs a party that on average openly courts cop unions, openly calls protestors rioters and terrorists, frequently denies that racial disparities even exist, and proudly yells "blue lives matter"
  • like yeah, the bar is in the ground. but do we want to be in the ground with it or actually trying to get some lift-off?
  • comparison also applies to immigration point above tbh i am just disorganized today and didn't write it there

do i still think dems-and-repubs-are-the-same reeks of voter-suppression propaganda? yes, and even more so when the evidence continues to pile up that dem legislatures and leaders at every level are making real progress on issues that we all purport to care about. who benefits when certain types of voters feel like their vote doesn't matter? the people who want to disenfranchise them!

do i still think it's important to contextualize data and question sources and stats? yes!!!!!!!!!! yes!!!! and i know it's not easy and it's time-consuming, but again: who benefits when we don't approach information with a critical mind? not us!

  • this doesn't mean we (collectively, as voters, as well as specifically voters on the left) are always going to agree -- but the more we can approach disagreements using the same set of facts, the more we can have a meaningful debate on what can actually be done instead of what is even reality

do i still think it's important to vote? yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

  • again i won't get into what could be a long screed here, but we are already seeing what can happen when we get left-leaning politicians into office
  • i specify left-leaning as opposed to any specific set of political beliefs because i know there is no such thing as a perfect politician, even putting aside the fact that nobody would be able to agree on what a perfect politician would believe or do
  • but incremental progress is still progress -- and voting is as much a form of feedback for legislators as it is a demand, which is to say if you have a democrat who has done things you like? reward them by voting for them again! have they missed some things? call up their office and say "as someone who voted for [x], i'm disappointed by [y]" -- it's MUCH more effective than complaining as a non-voter
  • our current political context is also particularly important here -- there are times when it's valuable to have a slimmer margin to keep both parties on their toes. right now however one party is doing everything it can to leap off the deep end and it's more valuable to deliver some security to the party that isn't so it doesn't feel as much of a need to tread carefully and court the mid-right and can take firmer leftward stances
  • in other words we have got to stop thinking of politicians as individuals acting on individual preferences. they get elected to represent a set of priorities indicated by voters -- but if a portion of those voters doesn't show up, how are they supposed to prioritize or even know about those people's issues? vibes????
  • look, for all the many foibles of the US system, it remains a fact that the right to vote is one of the most powerful tools a citizenry can have
  • you actually get to show up and tell your government -- local, state, federal -- whether you're pissed off. and they have to hear it!
  • there is a reason status quo groups want to prevent more people from voting -- because it's powerful and they know it! why let them take that power from us?

am i still going to abuse bullet points? yeah

  • i'm not sorry about it
  • i've made so many slide decks in my life
  • i've earned this
  • i am sorry i made this post even longer though. sorry to anyone who has 'keep reading' turned off
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unpretty

accountant thoughts:

so there's a certain amount of fixed costs associated with water systems and wastewater treatment, right? like. sewage. making human shit less toxic. keeping water clean and then getting that water into houses. there are ways that costs increase the more the system gets used, but it would also cost money if it just sat there. it might even cost more money, because the systems aren't designed to shut down and just sit there. if the whole city were abandoned except for one house, and it became the only house served by the water department and the sewer system, there would still be all that base cost associated with the various systems and plants and so on. i'm simplifying because i don't actually know how all that works.

anyway. so from a financial perspective, water and wastewater treatment get cheaper the more people you have being served by the system. because that's more people you can divide the cost up by. that's how the fixed cost works. the fixed cost is less per person the more people there are.

a lot of prisons in the usa are in small towns and rural areas. that's how prison gerrymandering works. you take people out of the cities where they actually live, and you stick them in a prison in bumfuck, and then you say "i represent the 5,000 residents of bumfuck" while ignoring that 4,000 of those residents are in a prison and can't vote.

prisons use a lot of water!

so when they're doing the budgets in a small town, if they say, "here is how much we think it's going to cost to run for the next year, here is how many gallons of water we estimate being used, we will divide the cost by thousands of gallons and that's what we're going to charge", what impact does a prison have? what if a prison represents half of all water usage? how much higher would residential bills be without the prison there? is it a private prison, or is it the state that's paying for that prison's water usage? at what point can it be said that in certain rural areas infrastructure is subsidized by the state through the imprisonment of people primarily from urban areas where infrastructure is allowed to fail

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[“Jails and prisons are designed to break human beings, to convert the population into specimens in a zoo—obedient to our keepers, but dangerous to one another. In response, imprisoned men and women will invent and continually invoke various and sundry defenses. Consequently, two layers of existence can be encountered within almost every jail or prison. The first layer consists of the routines and behavior prescribed by the governing penal hierarchy. The second layer is the prisoner culture itself: the rules and standards of behavior that come from and are defined by the captives in order to shield themselves from the open or covert terror designed to break their spirits.

In an elemental way, this culture is one of resistance, but a resistance of desperation. It is, therefore, incapable of striking a significant blow against the system. All its elements are based on an assumption that the prison system will continue to survive. Precisely for this reason, the system does not move to crush it. (In fact, it sometimes happens that there is an under-the-table encouragement of the prisoners’ subculture.) I was continually astonished by the infinite details of the social regions that the women in the House of Detention considered their exclusive domain. This culture was contemptuously closed to the keepers. I sometimes wandered innocently through the doors and found myself thoroughly disoriented. A telling example happened on my second day in population. A sister asked me, “What did you think of my grandfather? He said he saw you this morning.” I was sure I had misheard her question, but when she repeated it, I told her she must be mistaken, because I had no idea who her grandfather was. Besides, I hadn’t had any visitors that day. But the joke was on me. I was in a foreign country and hadn’t learned the language. I discovered from her that a woman prisoner who had come by my cell earlier in the day was the “grandfather” to whom she was referring. Because she didn’t seem eager to answer any questions, I contained my curiosity until I found someone who could explain to me what the hell was going on.

A woman a few cells down gave me a fascinating description of a whole system through which the women could adopt their jail friends as relatives. I was bewildered and awed by the way in which the vast majority of the jail population had neatly organized itself into generations of families: mothers/wives, fathers/husbands, sons and daughters, even aunts, uncles, grandmothers, and grandfathers. The family system served as a defense against the fact of being no more than a number. It humanized the environment and allowed an identification with others within a familiar framework.

In spite of its strong element of escapism and fantasy, the family system could solve certain immediate problems. Family duties and responsibilities were a way in which sharing was institutionalized. Parents were expected to provide for their children, particularly the young ones, if they could not afford “luxury items” from commissary.

Like filial relationships outside, some sons and daughters had, or developed, ulterior motives. Quite a few of them joined certain families because the material benefits were greater there.

What struck me most about this family system was the homosexuality at its core. But while there was certainly an overabundance of homosexual relationships within this improvised kinship structure, it was nevertheless not closed to “straight” women. There were straight daughters and husbandless, i.e., straight, mothers.

I recall with fondness a young woman of sixteen, with a very intense beauty, who told me plainly and simply one day that she was going to consider me her mother. Although I shared my commissary with her (and others as well) when she didn’t have enough money in her account, she never once asked me for anything. She was quiet, serious, and very curious about the Black Liberation Movement. My obligations to her seemed to consist primarily of carrying on discussions with her about the movement.”]

angela davis, an autobiography

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i thought for sure this had to be fake, but no, its real. i guess theres a weird logic to it, that it would be more interesting to deal with a variety of mental illnesses. but still. very weird tactic

it’s actl worse than that: in the US we use prisons to warehouse the severely mentally ill(and the ‘too poor to pay for needed psych treatment’), and this is the Bureau of Prisons using that inhuman policy as ADVERTISING.

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THIS RIGHT HERE

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afronerdism

You guys are dangerously close to realizing specifically what kinds of people they keep from voting and why.

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molothoo

I want to drill this into everybody’s head:

  • The United States of America has the highest prison population in the world
  • Black Americans and Latin people make up the majority of this population (many of whom are non-violent offenders)
  • Federal Prisons in America require that their state keeps their prisons at a maximum occupancy at all times.
  • The 13th amendment did not entirely abolish slavery…just one form of it. It remains legal through industrial prison system

Oh and we have privatized prisons which allow companies to actually make money off of keeping people incarcerated 

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dantalaois
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odinsblog

Here’s what’s really perverse: prisoners, who cannot vote, still get counted in the U.S. Census. The more prisoners a county has, the more representation it gets, even though the prisoners cannot vote. See how that works? The more black and brown people they lock up, the more government resources and political representation they get. Even though those prisoners have no say and cannot vote.

If county-A has a population of 50 voters but no prisons, and county-B has a population of 50 voters and 50 prisoners, the county with the prisoners gets more government funding and more political represention. This is sometimes called “prison gerrymandering” and it is used in redistrictring.

Not so fun Fact: Southern states that reliably vote for Republicans also have the highest prison population in the United States. (source). So mass incarceration is a double whammy. It’s both a form of voter suppression and a tool to strengthen white people’s political power.

They both tackle the historical evolution of modern-day mass incarceration (e.g. slavery giving way to convict leasing giving way to the modern prison-industrial complex & for-profit prisons) and how it relates to voter disenfranchisement.

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