mouthporn.net
#liberals – @zenosanalytic on Tumblr
Avatar

Racing Turtles

@zenosanalytic / zenosanalytic.tumblr.com

"Why run, my little Phoenician?"
Avatar

recontextualizing "bowser is evil in story games but its just an act for the story, and hes good and nice in spinoff games" as "bowser is one of those friends that regularly does some fuckshit and youre like, god i wanna be nice but this is some fuckshit, but then afterwards its like well i wanna be charitable idk if i can hold this against him we're friends idk"

taking this to its extreme is really funny bc it makes mario and peach into like. moderate liberals. like yeah bowser is the monarch of an evil empire and conquers his own like zone regularly but we still play golf with him. and when he makes moves on The Planet we are gonna stop him obviously but then we will go back to playing golf with him

Avatar
Avatar
ms-demeanor

Are you saying the fatwa on Salman Rushdie is part of cancel culture or did he do something?

Avatar

It’s about the fatwa but I’m going to jump off of this ask to have a rant.

What this boils down to, at least to me, is a preoccupation with an assumed right to be adored, no matter what. It’s an attempt to allow public figures with bruised egos to intellectualise their way out of understanding a very simple idea: when you – particularly the famous – do things to perpetuate or legitimise ideas or actions that contribute to further harming others, you are not entitled to remain liked by some members of the public.
The added suggestion that individual consequences for specific misdeeds are a sign that things have gone too far is just as absurd. Like the “forces of illiberalism” discredited in this letter, many of those who’ve added their signatures in support of it simply wish to remain steadfast in their beliefs without having to engage in exactly the kind of discussions this letter suggests should happen. That’s the thing with glossing over the ugly or difficult issues to bolster your argument – shards of them inevitably push through the cracks.

Salman Rushdie signed the letter on justice and open debate that everyone has decided is about cancel culture because JK signed it.

We’ve got a baby/bathwater situation here. You’ve got a bunch of people who have faced death threats and political consequences and serious shit for what they’ve written (Atwood is on that list, Chomsky is on that list. Atwood’s books have been banned in a ton of places; Chomsky was monitored by the CIA for years because of his political philophy. Rushdie is on that list and people have tried to kill him for his writing) signing a letter saying “uhhhhhhhh fuck censorship” but because Jo also signed it the same week she decided to go mask off with the trans exclusion people are going “these things are the same” and “Uhhhh, it’s not cancel culture, your actions just have consequences” (that pullquote is from an article about this list; saying “it’s absurd to suggest that individual consequences for specific misdeeds are a sign that things have gone too far” is a HELL OF A THING to say about a list that includes people who have survived bombing attempts.

So yeah, I think it’s a bit of a stretch to simply call the letter a condemnation of cancel culture but it’s kind of a joke that people on tumblr are cancelled for having wrong opinions about Stephen Universe but then you see people who have actually lost their jobs because someone made a fake page calling them a possum fucker, or people who are getting called out as pedophiles for shipping two adults, well. Yeah. You know what, I think it’s probably a good idea to have a conversation about why cancel culture CAN be a thing and CAN be a bad thing and how to recognize it and avoid participating it.

Cancel culture *isn’t* just “your actions having consequences” and there IS a totally new mobbing culture that’s exploded in the last twenty years and it is misaimed CONSTANTLY and it does make people less likely to participate in discourse and an open exchange of ideas.

Like, fuck, a bunch of the tumblr “Abolish the police” crew is also the tumblr “kill all pedophiles” crew and trying to talk about intervention and science-based prevention tactics and compassionate treatment gets you labelled a pedophile sympathizer and there is a giant mob of people who don’t want to talk about any of that, they just want to tell you to kill yourself until you decide it’s not worth while to talk about anything controversial.

(My inbox, for example, is full of people who came by to tell me that they were glad I talked about atheism but the response that I got is exactly why they don’t talk about atheism here).

The every-other-week “Cancel Argumate” campaigns are another example of this. Argumate says something pretty clumsy about indigenous people, clarifies a position, makes a good faith argument, and is labelled a colonialist, cancel Argumate. Argumate makes a post about atheism, is challenged on that post by Jewish atheists, clarifies that the post wasn’t about that, continues to clarify that, is frustrated that people keep coming to make the same point in opposition to a point that was never in the post in the first place, is labelled as antisemitic, cancel argumate. Argumate makes a post criticizing US capitalism, is labelled a marxist, cancel Argumate. Argumate makes a post somewhat sympathetically discussing landlords, is labelled an anarchocapitalist, cancel Argumate. Argumate makes a post criticizing landlords for cutting corners and endangering tenants, is labelled an anarchist, cancel Argumate. Like. A bunch of Argumate’s individual posts are glib as fuck but all of the long conversations on that blog are really fucking nuanced and that’s coming from someone who got to know Argumate after initially going “Argumate’s an MRA, cancel Argumate” before then having a long, nuanced conversation about radical feminism.

It’s just frustrating that everything is presented as so black and white. “Oh, this letter is from JK, this must mean she’s whining about how we hate that she’s a terf” and way to go, buds, you just (oh god am I really going to do this) Spoke Over A Man Of Color Who Has Faced Institutional Violence As A Result Of His Writings.

Or, to put it another way: “I REALLY WISH THESE CONVERSATIONS COULD BE HAD WITH A DEGREE OF NUANCE BECAUSE PUTTING SOMEONE SURVEILLED BY THE CIA FOR DECADES FOR HIS ANTIWAR WRITING AND SOMEONE WHO SURVIVED A BOMBING ATTEMPT BECAUSE OF HIS FICTION IN THE SAME CATEGORY OF ‘BUTTHURT BECAUSE OF MEANIES ON TWITTER’ AS JK ROWLING IS LUDICROUS.”

Avatar

And please! Block and unfollow and DNI people you don't want to interact with to your heart's content! Ban Nazis from your punk bar! Talk about the gross person you think might be a missing stair in your D&D group! But we all recognize that that's different than doxxing and dogpiling, right?

I dont disagree with the sentiment of this post, nor do I have anything but goodwill for OP, but I do think this, ironically, misses the nuance of the reaction against the letter.

Ppl arent JUST responding to JK. It can SEEM that way from a fandom perch(for reasons that will become obvsl since 80% of this discussion is abt stuff not actl in the letter), but that isn’t what this is about; why would a bunch of professional left journalists, who are the primary ppl talking about this on twitter, care about something Rowling said(other than as an example of TERF rhetoric, obvsl)? Just a warning: this is going to get Lore-Heavy and very, Very Stupid.

This letter’s being read as part of an ongoing debate over the legitimacy of activism, particularly the “turn” towards deplatforming and protest(which isn’t really a turn; these tactics have been used by activists of all stripes Forever), within US politics; a turn primarily blamed on the Left because centrist and conservative commentators dominate official social commentary(which, again, reveals the nature of this “turn”. If it’s a “turn” of any kind, it’s a “turn” in coverage and opinion-making). This subject is obviously relevant and topical in light of the George Floyd protests(which the letter is ALSO being read as a reaction against, probably because it directly implicates them as an EXPRESSION of this trend[1]). Specifically, it’s being read in relation to two recent articles: This Article From June 12 by Matt Taibbi where he posits:

…the American left has lost its mind. It’s become a cowardly mob of upper-class social media addicts, Twitter Robespierres who move from discipline to discipline torching reputations and jobs with breathtaking casualness.
The leaders of this new movement are replacing traditional liberal beliefs about tolerance, free inquiry, and even racial harmony with ideas so toxic and unattractive that they eschew debate, moving straight to shaming, threats, and intimidation. They are counting on the guilt-ridden, self-flagellating nature of traditional American progressives, who will not stand up for themselves, and will walk to the Razor voluntarily.

Now Two Things:

  1. There’s a whole backstory behind this related to his reporting on the 2016 election, which he has long felt hasn’t been properly acknowledged(and Yes; his article rehashes this with all the Impartiality and Meticulous Honesty you’d expect from the aggrieved, one-sided account of a past golden-boy), his hostility to negative coverage of Russian foreign policy(the stuff re: Putin’s backing of Republicans primarily, but he was a big part of the [EDIT: originally wrote “Russia Times” but then remembered it was “Russia Today”. Oops X|]Russia Today crowd in the Shrub years, so he just generally treats any discussion of Russia’s geopolitical and ideological hostility to the US as illegitimate and suspect), and a recentish resurfacing of his misogynist behavior during the Bush II regime.
  2. As any Always Onlines xp’d in dealing with the Peterson, Shapiro, and Harris wings of conservatism can tell you “the left is abandoning traditional liberal beliefs”, sometimes written as “Englightenment Beliefs/Values”, is a major dogwhistle for right-wing “The Left are Cultural Marxists” discourse, which is itself a stalking-horse for unabashed Elders of Zion antisemitism.

So, to the journo-left twitterati and Always Online, this article had some major red flags: it’s rhetoric, it’s denouncing of the ~criminality~ of the protests, and that Taibbi, with all his problems and beefs and his perceived right-sympathies, is the one who wrote it.

The second article it’s being read in context with is This One From Ross Douthat about basically the same topic; pushing Wesley Yang’s “successor ideology” idea -which is basically just a Bari Weiss article about how college leftism is a threat to liberty flattered into a hyperventilating, conservative nightmare of a world-historical political theory- which is BASICALLY exactly what Taibbi was talking about so there’s really no reason to go over it as well[2].

Now why is it being read and reacted to in THIS context, as opposed to the context of long-time free speech advocates and censorship victims like Rushdie, Atwood, and Chomsky signing it? Because of a very particular batch of signatories, and because of particular passages within the letter. The Signatories are the Usual Suspects on the Right and Center who’ve been banging the drum about how evil leftist, anti-racist, anti-imperial activism is for decades(again; the Bari Weisses of the world). The passages are CLEARLY MENDACIOUS ones, clearly referencing bete noires of the right like the rebellion at the NYT against James Bennet’s editorship. So people are reading this letter NOT as a sincere expression of support for free speech -as it was clearly read by ppl like Rushdie, Atwood, and Chomsky- but rather as the usual right-wing weaponizing of free speech all of us on the internet know So Well cuz we’ve spent YEARS OF OUR LIVES getting in utterly fruitless arguments with the supporters of the right-wing trolls who SIGNED the damn thing, about it.

So like: this response isn’t about Rushdie, or fandom harassment campaigns, or internet mobs, or even what the Left thinks of free speech. This response is about the Right’s decades-long campaign to twist “freedom of speech” into a JUSTIFICATION for officially censoring Leftists and Liberals with the power of The State, and, mildly related to that, the growing tendency of well-off, comfortable ppl to deligitimize pushback their decisions receive by labeling it “cancel culture”.

“Canceling” is absolutely a real thing; we’re all on tumblr, we’ve all seen artists, writers, and just plain bloggers harassed to ATTEMPTED SUICIDE by the censorious, self-deceiving, self-justifying assholes in our midst. Hundreds if not thousands of our most prolific and beloved members were kicked off this platform just two years ago over a cataclysmic combination of Apple’s desire to meticulously meet US legal ~decency~ requirements, tumblr’s desperation NOT to be kicked from Apple’s marketplace, and the unchecked, mendacious cancel campaigns raging against its fan communities. But while this phrase has become a bloody-shirt of the Right, the actual reality of it isn’t what they mean when they commission and write letters like this. Those reacting with hostility to it Know this, and they are reacting to the larger campaign to discredit left activism which this letter was clearly meant to be a part of.

Avatar

I know I’ve been posting about this too much, but honestly this Bloomberg shit is kind of breaking me.

The fact that anyone anyone claiming to be a democrat is supporting him is such mask-off shit. Bloomberg escalated stop-and-frisk and got black and brown people thrown in jail for nothing. His NYPD had a “demographics unit” that spied on Muslims. He has 64 sexual harassment accusations against him (for horrible context, even fucking Trump has less at 48.) His policies as mayor of NYC were horrible and discriminatory. He is ON THE RECORD saying horribly racist shit about how he ran the NYPD, about how much he hates trans people, about how much he does not respect women as full humans. He is one of the very very few people in this country that might actually be as evil as Trump.

And yet somehow he’s an acceptable democratic candidate now? Somehow he’s not everything the party is supposed to stand against? Somehow if you point out how racist and sexist and generally awful he is, if you point out he was a republican only a few goddamn years ago, you’re hurting the democratic party? You’re being divisive, and actually you’re the racist sexist for pointing out how horrible this racist sexist is! Because we have to beat Trump, and we can do that by replacing him with someone functionally identical to him! VoTe BlUe No MaTtEr WhO!!

Like, I know that the centrist mainstream democratic party abandoned people of color and queer people and the working class a long time ago. I know that the core of the party is MLK’s famous white moderate, that they don’t care about helping people so much as looking like they’re helping people. I know,

After all, you can’t get billionaire donors by actually representing the material interests of the people you claim to care about.

But this Bloomberg thing makes it so clear. So fucking clear. 

So clear I kind of can’t fucking take it.

Centrist democrats don’t see us as people so much as voting demographics they have an inherent lock on. After all, what are we going to do? Vote republican? The republicans are so much worse! And obviously yes, they are, holy shit they are…

But Bloomberg is a republican. A racist, sexist, billionaire republican. And if he’s an acceptable democrat now…if centrist democrats see him as more worthy of support than a (fairly tame, let’s be honest) democratic socialist…then fuck…

The democratic party needs to burn. And something new, something better, needs to rise in it’s place.

People should remember the names of those democrats who are siding with him and remember then as they truly, closet Republicans, closet white supremacists, closet classists, cowards who want only to serve themselves and for the US to serve them.

Avatar
roach-works

something to keep in mind though is that it’s in the interest of republicans and russian trolls both in getting young and minority voters to GIVE UP ON the democratic party, instead of doubling down on taking it over and making it ours

get angry. get loud. rail at bloomberg and every disgustingly complacent shithead that’s supporting him… AND THEN TAKE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AWAY FROM THEM. don’t just give up and leave these corrupt old monsters to their comfy seats. get after them, tear away their power, and make this party finally fucking work for us.  

don’t fall for being told to give up, to turn away, to stop wasting your time, to condemn it all. the democratic party is the only game in town for anyone who wants a future. so instead of quitting because it’s rigged, it’s time to clear out the cheaters and run this shit ourselves. 

It really cant be emphasized enough how FEW public liberals are lining up behind Bloomberg. P much every liberal I follow on Twitter was disgusted with the guy BEFORE he decided to try and buy an election, and now they’re going out of their way to trash him in hopes of counter-acting his buying-spree.

I’m sure there are some genuine Dems punting for Bloomberg given the money he’s throwing around, but I certainly havent seen them on my feeds. The ppl I follow have had nothing but abuse for the guy, so I feel like this idea that the Dems and liberals are all-in behind Bloomberg is just so much hot-air.

Avatar
Avatar
xynfonica

reblog if you’re completely unsurprised by furries & juggalos showing up where liberals won’t

smash the heart to show support for your furry & juggalo comrades while we’re at it

Liberals were at Charlottesville, liberals oppose Nazis and white supremacists, liberal activists have been opposing Donald and the Republican agenda in huge numbers from the very start, the Democratic party has universally condemned the white-supremacist violence committed there. Hillary Goddamn Clinton talked about precisely this(the music score I could do without but it was the quickest supercut of these remarks I could find) during the campaign. This kind of intra-left smearing is not only wrong-headed and counter-productive, but also disrespectful to those who put their bodies on the line to stand up for our shared values. It’s no different than if Dems were arguing that the IWW, DSA, and anti-fascist activists hadn’t shown up. Quit it.

Avatar
Avatar
sam-keeper

Honestly outside of a few useful idiots like Nick Spencer I’m starting to think the majority of people saying “don’t punch nazis”… are nazis.  Just saw someone saying “Hitler deserved a fair trial, not to be punched” for example but it quickly became obvious they were Alt Right. Remember that Gater tactics didn’t just involve harassment they involved massive disinformation campaigns. Totally possible we’re seeing that here, and that “civic-minded liberals” calling for the sanctity of freeze peach are actually mostly sockpuppets. And Nick Spencer.

I’d say there’s likely plenty of this, but there are also plenty of leftists, including centrist liberals, who would likely take this stance. Here’s One Example. And a liberal taking the Exact Opposite Stance from the exact same blog.

So to me the thing is this: “Liberal” constitutes a pretty wide ideological area, and “Left” even more so. Sure, the whole labeling “liberals” the problem coming from some quarters of the Left bugs me as a person who 1)is happy to take that label and 2)understands the long history of rightists pulling the above and generally trying to turn “liberal” into a dirty word, BUT at the same time the claim that there are centrist liberals opposed to pushing back against fascists with violence isn’t spun from whole cloth.

I guess what I’m saying is you just gotta look into the source for these things if you want to know whether the person’s being sincere, or just trying to sow discord. And also that it’s just as important to keep this stuff in its proper perspective as it is to know its purpose: Antifa tearing into, specifically, “liberals who denounce violent protest” are still far closer to those liberals politically than folks like Spencer or his supporters who Crowdfunded a Bounty for info on his attacker. Making each other the enemy distracts from our shared goal.

You are using an unsupported browser and things might not work as intended. Please make sure you're using the latest version of Chrome, Firefox, Safari, or Edge.
mouthporn.net