Racing Turtles

when i see people express sentiments like this, my thought is pretty much “who exactly are you trying to prove a point to?” the democrats? if trump gets elected, they’re going to be completely sidelined if not worse and will be entirely focused on trying to get back in power and i can tell you they will NOT be moving further left. netanyahu? it’s a BETTER outcome for him if trump wins since trump is SIGNIFICANTLY more pro-israel than biden has ever been. the people in gaza? they need a ceasefire which has been rejected by both the israel and the hamas sides multiple times and a trump win WILL NOT make that a stronger possibility.

While this tweet feels suspiciously like psyops, this kind of perspective is growing more and more common. It comes from the belief that it is more important to punish sinners for their crimes than it is to care for the innocent.

It is there in the voices who want Israel to burn more than they want Palestinians to have their freedom. Who want to attack public figures for using politically incorrect words more than they want to help people that those words describe. Who want Biden to lose the presidency more than they want safety and freedom for Americans (or Palestinians).

It is not, ultimately, an effective perspective. Punishments are far less of a deterrent than people think they are. Protesters know they may be arrested, maybe even beaten or shot, but they protest anyway. Criminals are well aware of the justice system, and yet crime persists. If someone genuinely believes that they must do something, then the threat of punishment does very little.

But more importantly, punishment is not justice. Sometimes punishment can help to bring about justice, but that does not make them the same thing.

Voting out Biden will not create justice. At its absolute best, it would punish Biden. But it would also punish millions of other people who are vulnerable and in need of our assistance.

Rather than taking the action that best punishes the perpetrators, we must try to find the paths that best support the victims. Sometimes, if we're lucky, the same action will do both.

This is not one of those times.

In the 2000 election, a bunch of people wanted to send a message. They wanted to send the message that the environment was important and climate change was real and the US needed to do something about it.

So they voted third party for Ralph Nader and the Green Party.

They cost the Democrats the election. So instead of noted environmentalist and climate change activist Al Gore, we got George W. Bush.

But they sent a message right? They made a stand for their cause right? Surely it helped their cause, right?

It ENDED the Green party single-handedly as well as Ralph Nadar's career, because they were blamed for splitting the vote and getting a moron nepo-baby oilman into power.

Bush was able to stall for eight years on even admitting climate change existed, while making tons of money for his friends in the oil industry. AND he started two decades of wars that are still ongoing to this day. Literally millions died.

Next time it might be birth control rights. It might be nuclear war.

The genocide? Will escalate. More will happen in other parts of the world. Maybe here, who fucking knows.

I voted for Nader in 2000. It was my first Presidential election vote. It was my friends who went into warzones at the order of the man who took office as a result.

Your elders are SCREAMING at you to please learn from history.

I've been told that the "Nader split the Democratic vote" narrative is overstated, but I was there and I remember. It absolutely happened.

Yes, genocide is wrong.

Trump will increase it.

"I live in a red state my vote doesn't ma-"

If your vote didn't matter they wouldn't try so hard to make it harder to vote in red states. Voting in red states can turn them into swing states like Georgia, Ohio, and Arizona. And voting in blue states can keep them from becoming swing states.

California used to be Red. Texas was Blue long ago. Florida was once a swing state. Obama took Indiana but it's gone redder since. Ten years ago Arizona and Georgia going blue was unthinkable.

Things change and we can make them change.

And that's before getting into more local elections. Turning cities blue, the state legislature.

Red states have flipped blue in recent years at those levels too.

Because people vote, and if we vote in high enough numbers we can turn a tight election into a walk in the park. If we vote in high enough numbers, we can turn a loss into a win. So many good things have happened in states where someone won by like 100 votes. (arizona is one)

When you look at the totals for Red States, a LOT of them are only a few % apart. 51/49, 48/52 sort of thing. The kind of thing that could be flipped with some effort.

Indiana went blue in 2008, thanks largely to Lake county (next to Chicago) and Marion (Indianapolis.) So the GOP then changed the rules for early voting in Marion county, so Indy's 1 million+ voters only had 1 voting site, with restricted hours. It took until 2018 to reverse that.

And yet! Even with the voter suppression, Mike Pence barely won the Governor's seat, 49% to 46%. His Democratic opponent was extremely boring. Literally his main selling point was that he had a goofy mustache. And yet! The election was that close!

I really think a lot of seats could be flipped if progressives actually put money and effort into campaigning there and fighting to increase voting access. People do not like Republican policies! But too often Red States are brushed off as hopeless and people don't even bother.

the current electoral system is an unfairly weighted corrupt mess that will not save us, but

there is no materially revolutionary argument against voting if you are at all able.

I keep seeing people say things like this: "You know what does matter to the politicians, even more than us voting for them? When we DON’T vote for them."

No, absolutely not. This is not how the US electoral system works. Under the current system, only votes cast matter. Only people who are going to vote matter to campaign strategists.

The last election, less than 20% of my district voted. The 80+% of the people who abstained? Their opinions on the results don't matter. The system does not take them into account. They gave up their right to have a say. Some strategists for future elections might look at the numbers and say: wow, why didn't those people vote, and can we GET them to vote? But ultimately, the system is designed so that if only one person votes, that person gets to decide the winning candidate. You get the representatives voted on by whoever shows up to the poll.

If a candidate thinks you cannot be swayed to vote (because, for example, you've joined a weird anti-voting movement), then ther campaign is not going to cater to you. Their strategists won't care about you. Someone in the next cycle might try for your vote, but you are giving up your right to have a voice for this cycle.... and voters with a history of voting are more promising targets for any campaign strategies.

(Your actual vote is a secret, but they DO monitor that you have voted. This will affect how much annoying campaigning materials you will get, because they do target active voters.)

Also, "if I don't vote, that will make a point!" is just a stupid take in general. If you don't vote in November, and then Trump wins, what have you really done? Do you think the Biden admin will care, as they're leaving office? Do you think the Trump admin will care, as they enter office? Republicans want fewer people to vote! Your abstention will be nothing but a footnote in history about how Trump won.

Voting for Democrats is the "leaving the house, getting some exercise, and drinking more water is good for your mental health" of societal change. Everyone keeps telling you to do it, worst of all your mom keeps telling you to do it, and it's not a magical cure-all, but it actually works and rotting in your room shitposting does not help in either scenario.

Also like mental health, voting doesn't solve the whole problem! But if you aren't doing this bare minimum thing, the other tools you have aren't going to work as well as they should either. If you get medicine and continue rotting in your room shitposting, you will probably still be miserable. If you get a union at work but don't vote for politicians who support unions, the union won't be able to advocate for its members as effectively and work will still be miserable.

Voting is maintenance. It's like doing the dishes or cleaning the leaves out of the gutters. You're never going to get to a point where you are Done and Never Have To Do It Again (alas,) because time will continue to pass and you will continue to eat meals and the trees will continue to drop leaves into your gutters and right wingers will continue to submit bad bills to every session of congress.

You'll never be done with maintenance. But if you don't do that maintenance, your situation can and definitely will get Worse

the current electoral system is an unfairly weighted corrupt mess that will not save us, but

there is no materially revolutionary argument against voting if you are at all able.

Hey so if you truly think that not voting is neutral or a good form of protest, please take one moment to think about why there are so many bot-written comments and whole misinformation campaigns dedicated to keep you from casting your vote. And why gerrymandering is a thing. Why the right to vote first was only given to the rich and wealthy, why the fight for woman’s suffrage took so long, and why some people are still barred from voting today. Why facists show up at the booth to threaten voters, and why they pass laws that serve no other purpose but voter suppression. Because your vote has power, however little. And if you decide to give that power up, someone else will gladly take it.

i really dont get when ppl are like "liberals need to stop pressuring ppl to vote bc the liberal president is literally doing [x terrible thing]" and its like. yeah? all presidents are going to be fucked up pretty much. but do you want one thats doing some good things and some really bad, or ONLY extremely bad things????

when theres been studies that if all younger of-age people voted this place would be WAY more liberal than it is, i think theres only GOOD that can come out of encouraging more ppl to vote, and consistently. NOT disillusioning them early on and making them feel like nothing fucking matters (esp when you list no alternatives to voting for trying to change things)

it doesnt mean everythings gonna be all fucking sunshine and rainbows just bc theres a democrat president. but if we keep on the trend of liberalism we can get SOME progress done in this godawful country

if the current liberal president is doing shit you dont like. BE LOUD ABOUT IT. LET POLITICIANS KNOW YOU WANT PEOPLE EVEN MORE LIBERAL. AND BE LOUD ABOUT WHAT YOU DO LIKE. SHOW WHAT YOU WILL AND WONT ACCEPT.

THIS SHIT IS A GRADUAL PROCESS AND WE WILL GET INCREASINGLY BETTER PRESIDENTS IF YOU JUST LET US GET OUT OF THE RED HELL THAT IS THIS WHOLE COUNTRY

like holy shit, what would yall have rather TRUMP stayed in office ??????

If there are 10 people on the bus, 3 people vote go left to continue journey, 4 people vote turn right to drive bus off a cliff, and 3 people don't bother voting cause they don't especially want to go left, the winning vote is turn right off the cliff.