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#azor ahai – @zaldrizer-sovesi on Tumblr
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All Dragons Must Fly

@zaldrizer-sovesi / zaldrizer-sovesi.tumblr.com

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Anonymous asked:

Say Jon died, at least temporarily, at the end of aDwD. Who (and why/ in what order) are the five people he should meet in Heaven?

I think that's more or less what's going to happen. When their human body dies, wargs slide into animals and plug into the weirwood system, where Bran and Bloodraven are waiting for Jon so that they can show him what he needs to know. It won't be quite the same as meeting them, since the ability to reach out and interact with the events being observed seems to be limited to Bran, but I do think he'll get some otherwise impossible face time with people.

Who it will be is a bit less certain. There are characters I'd really enjoy watching him come face-to-face with, especially if he could interact. In chronological order, not order of importance:

  • Lyanna, of course. It'd be a powerful moment for both of them, to see how much alike they are. Finding out who she is would prepare him for meeting
  • Rhaegar. As a reader I'm curious to hear him explain himself, and in-universe, Jon needs to know what he needs to know from
  • Azor Ahai and/or the Last Hero and/or whoever had the ideas that let humanity defeat the Others the last time around. It's a massive task, but there should at least be one person in the world who isn't entirely clueless as to how to go about it. (Which is why this is the one that almost certainly won't happen on the page – it would give away too much both about what's going to happen and about the metaphysical realities of the 'verse. But I'd like to see it.) Task in hand, Jon would ideally get an emotional boost in the form of last meetings with
  • Ned for some emotional closure about how it all happened and
  • Robb, as a touchstone for the human being that Jon is. He's in for both an identity crisis and an existential crisis, but he can't afford to get swallowed up by Destiny(TM) – not least because that would render him a person who can't do whatever it is that he'll probably have to do.

Whatever ends up happening will probably be a lot more exciting than that, but that’s my wishlist for the moment. 

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Anonymous asked:

Oooh. nice. king arthur and his knights awaken from their slumber beneath the hill but ~SURPRISE!~ they were never the heroes we'd been promised and now they're all monstrous, robert strong-style nasties (but smarter maybe??

I’ve actually always associated the King Arthur mythos with the Azor Ahai Reborn prophecy? I mean.

"In ancient books of Asshai it is written that there will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

Someone who knows more about Arthurian legend than “read The Once And Future King in English class once” probably has a lot more to say than I do about King Arthur and AAR, but the key elements are there, right? Tragic romance, magic sword, time of darkest need, mythic hero-king resurrection. ASOIAF’s interrogation of that so far seems to be, yeah, yeah, we’re holding out for a hero and all, but the best spin even this guy’s biggest fans put on him admits that he murdered his wife in cold blood! Are we really sure we want him back?! (Of course, as is equally possible as in the case of the Night’s King, there could well be a lot of material details we don’t know.)

So that’s how I think the last few books have picked up on Arthurian legend, making it more of a morally dubious thing than a total “haha, the heroes are the villains, gotcha!” But it’s certainly possible? There’s no rule that the narrative can’t do a black versus grey dual interrogation of the archetype.

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reblogged

the creation of Lightbringer: an alternative theory

This is…slightly creative inductive logic which is admittedly not my favorite mode of analysis, but what are meta blogs for, if not crackpot theories?

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faustandluce

Honestly, I love the theory.

But I want to talk a little about just how uncomfortable the story of Lightbringer makes us. zaldizer-sovensi calls it, “ the empowerment of a man by way of his martyring a woman” and “an unappealing storyline, for reasons both philosophical and aesthetic.” Who could disagree?

GRRM presents us with a legend- A man who was a mythic savior, and used the power of the gods to save the world from death and darkness. The story itself is pretty awful, and is presented that way in the text: Saaladhor Saan is the first to describe the myth, I think, and he clearly isn’t partial to it:

“Now do you see my meaning? Be glad that it is just a burnt sword that His Grace pulled from that fire. Too much light can hurt the eyes, my friend, and fire burns.”

As I said, I think most of us are on the same side as Saaladhor- we find this specific flavor of tragedy-myth pretty distasteful. What are we to make, then, of the fact that this myth is clearly based on a real event, that occurred right on the boundary between history and prehistory? Moreover, the events of the ASOIAF books are clearly building to a reenactment of the event(s) that were turned into the myth. If we find the myth unpleasant, why have we read five 1000+ page novels about it?

My initial (if admittedly cynical) instinct is to say that clearly a lot of people disagree with us, because it’s such a popular trope.

My actual take is that, yeah, there’s not really a clear line between invoking sexist tropes, even critically, and straightforward depiction which trades on our social conditioning to respond favorably to them. I think the fact that we’re told the story of Lightbringer by someone who views it critically and who explicitly comments on the erasure of Nissa Nissa’s perspective (”why she did this thing, I cannot say”) frames the story as being quite ugly. Or, you know, I’ve seen Victarion Greyjoy put forward as a candidate for AAR, and I’ve seen people disgree with that theory on the grounds that he’s completely abhorrent, but I kind of think that’s the point: that Victarion “The Actual Worst” Greyjoy can be confused with Azor Ahai, and so maybe Azor Ahai isn’t a real admirable guy.

But still, the Others are a threat that mere mortals are unequipped to take on; does the narrative criticizing Nissa Nissa -type stories in this way actually reinforce the idea that violence against women is ~just the way it is, inevitable or at least unimportant in the grand scheme of things?

Ultimately, I don’t know. I know I’d rather consume a story which makes me ask these questions and expects me to think critically about this type of mythology than a story which assumes I will accept it or pretends that it’s not part of the cultural context in which it exists. But that’s a preference, not at all an unqualified good.

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