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Escapism With Birds

@yuutfa / yuutfa.tumblr.com

18+ / A person that writes and draws sometimes. / Expect writing and art resources, cute things, and a butt ton of Caster. Thank you for visiting and have a good day! Art Tag / Writing Tag / Creation Blog / What the heck is Caster?
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Anonymous asked:

How is that Persephone post wrong if you dont mind me asking?

IM SO GLAD YOU ASKED!!!!

Okay so under the cut are pics of the original post just so we can keep track of what is being discussed. This is gonna be a long post and I hope that isn’t too off-putting! This is just a rly complex topic and I wanna explain my objections better than I did on the original post!

Okay so, admittedly I was being a little over the top with my initial comments here, but it’s because I wrote my undergraduate thesis on modern interpretations of the Rape of Persephone myth (which got published here) and it drives me up the fucking wall to see people treat Classical myth this way. 

Because here’s the thing, there is nothing wrong with reinterpreting and retelling ancient myths to suit modern contexts. In the academic world this is known as Reception Studies and it’s really fucking cool!! I am 100% supportive of Reception!! But people who participate in Reception need to be honest about it. You can’t claim that your modern, feminist retelling of a myth is accurate to the ancient source material, because that will give your audience an inaccurate understanding of the past. Ancient Greece was incredibly misogynistic and  Persephone was not an empowered female character, and here’s why!

So, OP dustypurple says that their version of the myth is the “real, original version of it,” and likewise thealienonbroadway also claims that “this is the original, before it was altered to scare Greek/Roman girls into submission.” So here’s the thing, there was no original, “pre-Greek/Roman” version of this myth, BC THIS MYTH IS INHERENTLY GREEK IN ORIGIN. 

The earliest recorded source we have for the Rape of Persephone myth is the Homeric Hymn to Demeter (which you can read here). Here’s a summary of this Greek hymn from my thesis:

And here’s a discussion of the traditional Roman version by Ovid (read full text here): 

aaaaaaand here’s a section explaining why the textual evidence from these two versions of the myth strongly indicates that Persephone was raped and not just kidnapped. 

So, yeah, I hope those summaries show why OP’s version of the myth is definitely not the “real, original version” of the myth. Persephone did not choose to go to the Underworld, Hades was not a passive figure in this myth, and Demeter was not being unreasonable (”throwing the temper tantrum of the millennium”) when she demanded the safe return of her kidnapped and raped daughter. 

So just to get a few things straight, the ancient Greek and Roman versions of the Rape of Persephone myth probably were meant to scare women into submission through the way Persephone is raped and Demeter is forced to  compromise with Zeus. But there’s no secret, “original” feminist version of this myth where Persephone chose Hades and the Underworld. 

Now, that doesn’t mean that modern people can’t rewrite this myth and ship these characters however they want. But to claim that their version of the Rape of Persephone is somehow the ~original~ and to imply that anyone who tells the “version of the myth that’s commonly known and taught” is sexist because they’re ignoring the ~true feminist version~ is utter bullshit. 

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dusty-purple

I just love the myth of Persephone, i mean the real, original version of it, because it’s not like she got kidnapped, no, this bitch was la-de-da-ing in a meadow and she just happened to find an entrance to the Underworld and she was like “Imma check this out”. And she just wanders into the Underworld and discovers that hey this place ain’t too bad.

Meanwhile Hades is in the background “????? UM??? PRETTY GIRL??? WHY ARE YOU HERE?????? YOU AREN’T DEAD???” 

And Persephone (who was originally called Kore just a little fyi) just looked at him and said “I like it here. I’m staying.”

And Hades kinda just went with it, until Demeter started throwing the temper tantrum of the millenium upstairs and Zeus had to intervene because this shit was getting out of hand and its actually his job to be admistrator of justice. Which considering the shit he gets up to is kinda histerical but that’s another story there. 

And basically Persephone wasn’t a prisoner or kidnap victim at all she just really loved the Underworld and her (eventual) husband, and the Greeks feared her arguably more than her husband because Hades could be reasoned with but Persephone was the one laying the smack down on sinners, and really, who wouldn’t be at least a little scared of someone who’s name means something along the lines of “the destroyer”

Basically, Persephone is amazing and everbody needs to get on her level

i think the best part of that myth is that Zeus decided to change Kore’s name to Persephone (basically “the one who brings chaos”) only because she wanted to stay in the underworld and SHE WOULDN’T FUCKING LISTEN then Zeus, all-mighty king of the gods, kinda gives up and goes “fine, but you’re going to visit your mom” “also, I changed your name” “get rekt”

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achillvs

Also, if I’m not mistaken, Kore means “little girl” so imagine going from that to “chaos bringer”

I mean, going from little girl to chaos bringer sounds like a p solid deal to me, sign me up.

This may not be the version of the myth that’s commonly known and taught. But is is the original, from before it was altered to scare Greek/Roman girls into submission. Persephone was a badass bitch.

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reblogged
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dusty-purple

I just love the myth of Persephone, i mean the real, original version of it, because it’s not like she got kidnapped, no, this bitch was la-de-da-ing in a meadow and she just happened to find an entrance to the Underworld and she was like “Imma check this out”. And she just wanders into the Underworld and discovers that hey this place ain’t too bad.

Meanwhile Hades is in the background “????? UM??? PRETTY GIRL??? WHY ARE YOU HERE?????? YOU AREN’T DEAD???” 

And Persephone (who was originally called Kore just a little fyi) just looked at him and said “I like it here. I’m staying.”

And Hades kinda just went with it, until Demeter started throwing the temper tantrum of the millenium upstairs and Zeus had to intervene because this shit was getting out of hand and its actually his job to be admistrator of justice. Which considering the shit he gets up to is kinda histerical but that’s another story there. 

And basically Persephone wasn’t a prisoner or kidnap victim at all she just really loved the Underworld and her (eventual) husband, and the Greeks feared her arguably more than her husband because Hades could be reasoned with but Persephone was the one laying the smack down on sinners, and really, who wouldn’t be at least a little scared of someone who’s name means something along the lines of “the destroyer”

Basically, Persephone is amazing and everbody needs to get on her level

i think the best part of that myth is that Zeus decided to change Kore’s name to Persephone (basically “the one who brings chaos”) only because she wanted to stay in the underworld and SHE WOULDN’T FUCKING LISTEN then Zeus, all-mighty king of the gods, kinda gives up and goes “fine, but you’re going to visit your mom” “also, I changed your name” “get rekt”

Avatar
achillvs

Also, if I’m not mistaken, Kore means “little girl” so imagine going from that to “chaos bringer”

I mean, going from little girl to chaos bringer sounds like a p solid deal to me, sign me up.

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I’m not sure whether I should laugh or cry.

Is OP aware that oh so many books exist on this subject?

And that almost universally the ones authored by people with doctorates in classicism and mythology disagree with OP?

Including the… epic hymn that first told this story? You know what’s in that original source material… right?

Abducted, yes. Demeter mourned? Definitely. Rape, no.

So here’s some info on Ancient Greek wedding traditions which (oh my stars and garters!!) included abducting the bride. With the father’s permission, which Hades got before he took her away.

Here’s a whole book on the subject of Ancient Greek wedding custom and its conflation with funeral rites. (Which sounds a bit like Hades and Persephone to anyone who’s ever dabbled in things like explication and context)

Oh shit!!

Holy pug tacos Batman!!

All these fucking books!  What could anyone possibly do with them all?!?!?!?! Do you eat books to absorb their powers instead of read them?

image

A better guess would be that you got into a moral panic over the name of a certain Renaissance statue and maybe after reading three pages of Edith Hamilton or the first paragraph of a Wikipedia article. And then used that to castigate and demean not only the people who actually take their limited time to create gorgeous art but also to denigrate modern day worshippers of Persephone and Hades?

Maybe next time, you stringy piece of over-boiled okra, you might want to take your own advice and pick up a book, instead of reducing the feared and respected Queen of the Underworld who held power equal to or in many interpretations GREATER than her husband into a meaningless pastiche of female disenfranchisement that you seemingly plucked from your own ass.

I love academic take downs. Like a shit ton of what we know about Greek Religion is either through a Roman filter or rewritten versions of earlier tales from when Goddess worship was central.

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