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Escapism With Birds

@yuutfa / yuutfa.tumblr.com

18+ / A person that writes and draws sometimes. / Expect writing and art resources, cute things, and a butt ton of Caster. Thank you for visiting and have a good day! Art Tag / Writing Tag / Creation Blog / What the heck is Caster?
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Anonymous asked:

How is that Persephone post wrong if you dont mind me asking?

IM SO GLAD YOU ASKED!!!!

Okay so under the cut are pics of the original post just so we can keep track of what is being discussed. This is gonna be a long post and I hope that isn’t too off-putting! This is just a rly complex topic and I wanna explain my objections better than I did on the original post!

Okay so, admittedly I was being a little over the top with my initial comments here, but it’s because I wrote my undergraduate thesis on modern interpretations of the Rape of Persephone myth (which got published here) and it drives me up the fucking wall to see people treat Classical myth this way. 

Because here’s the thing, there is nothing wrong with reinterpreting and retelling ancient myths to suit modern contexts. In the academic world this is known as Reception Studies and it’s really fucking cool!! I am 100% supportive of Reception!! But people who participate in Reception need to be honest about it. You can’t claim that your modern, feminist retelling of a myth is accurate to the ancient source material, because that will give your audience an inaccurate understanding of the past. Ancient Greece was incredibly misogynistic and  Persephone was not an empowered female character, and here’s why!

So, OP dustypurple says that their version of the myth is the “real, original version of it,” and likewise thealienonbroadway also claims that “this is the original, before it was altered to scare Greek/Roman girls into submission.” So here’s the thing, there was no original, “pre-Greek/Roman” version of this myth, BC THIS MYTH IS INHERENTLY GREEK IN ORIGIN. 

The earliest recorded source we have for the Rape of Persephone myth is the Homeric Hymn to Demeter (which you can read here). Here’s a summary of this Greek hymn from my thesis:

And here’s a discussion of the traditional Roman version by Ovid (read full text here): 

aaaaaaand here’s a section explaining why the textual evidence from these two versions of the myth strongly indicates that Persephone was raped and not just kidnapped. 

So, yeah, I hope those summaries show why OP’s version of the myth is definitely not the “real, original version” of the myth. Persephone did not choose to go to the Underworld, Hades was not a passive figure in this myth, and Demeter was not being unreasonable (”throwing the temper tantrum of the millennium”) when she demanded the safe return of her kidnapped and raped daughter. 

So just to get a few things straight, the ancient Greek and Roman versions of the Rape of Persephone myth probably were meant to scare women into submission through the way Persephone is raped and Demeter is forced to  compromise with Zeus. But there’s no secret, “original” feminist version of this myth where Persephone chose Hades and the Underworld. 

Now, that doesn’t mean that modern people can’t rewrite this myth and ship these characters however they want. But to claim that their version of the Rape of Persephone is somehow the ~original~ and to imply that anyone who tells the “version of the myth that’s commonly known and taught” is sexist because they’re ignoring the ~true feminist version~ is utter bullshit. 

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No, I’m serious, if women all got together and went into electrical engineering or automotive repair en masse, then ten years later people would be talking about how it was a “soft field” and it would pay proportionately less than other fields.

Likewise, if men moved en masse to bedeck themselves in sparkles and make-up, then suddenly you’d get a bunch of editorials talking about how classy they look.

None of these things are inherently masculine or feminine; none of these things inherently elevate you or drag you down. But whatever women are seen to do is automatically seen as being inherently more frivolous than anything men do. And shaming women for not pigeonholing themselves into a narrow range of acceptable “masculine” behaviours is just going to result in the goalposts getting moved once again.

This is literally what happened to basically every field women have entered. The opposite happens when men enter. Computers used to be a “woman thing” until the guys who did it got really mad about how badly their job was viewed and realized they could fix it by forcing out women.

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meariver

Also happened/ is happening with the fields of biology and psychology….

I honestly wonder how much of the backlash against public education in the last generation has been due to teaching becoming a woman-dominated profession.

Fashion used to be a men’s thing. Then women got involved in the late 17/1800’s, so men went the other way because it came to be seen as “frivolous” and “anti-intellectual” to care about how you looked. Add in the homophobia that arose around that time, bam, staid bland dress. Ditto leggings/tights, that are now called attention-whoring when on men they were required to show you cared about your figure and had the money to pay for such a fitted item. 

People want to say misogyny doesn’t exist, that male privilege doesn’t exist. Look beyond “living memory” and you’ll find that’s what drives the “inexplicable reversals” society seems to make on many things. Hell, just look beyond your own society, and you’ll find out that what’s considered “for men” elsewhere is held in high esteem while here it’s scoffed at purely because it’s “for women”: 

  • Skinny jeans are the height of masculinity in several east Asian societies, rather than being seen as “gay” in the USA because of their association with femininity. 
  • Medical fields in Russia are valued like kindergarten teachers are here, because it’s women who are the doctors instead of men.
  • Love and romance are highly valued in eastern countries, because men are interested in it too—of course they would be, surely you want to share your life with someone? Here, it’s strictly a women’s subject.

The field of anthropology as a whole illustrates this.

Significantly higher proportions of females compared to males are currently entering the fields of archaeology and biological anthropology, and as this occurs, the prestige, funding, acceptance as valid kinds of science, etc, are fading quickly.

This has already occurred with linguistic anthropology and cultural anthropology. Cultural anthropology in particular went VERY quickly from being seen as a manly, scientific discipline (e.g., Franz Boas, Bronisław Malinowski) to being seen as a touchy-feely female thing.

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maxofs2d

Let’s examine a traditionally male-dominated role that is very well-respected, and well-paid, in many parts of the world — that of a doctor. In the UK, it is listed as one of the top ten lucrative careers, and the average annual income of a family doctor in the US is well into six figures. It also confers on you significant social status, and a common stereotype in Asian communities is of parents encouraging their children to become doctors.

One of my lecturers at university once presented us with this thought exercise: why are doctors so highly paid, and so well-respected? Our answers were predictable. Because they save lives, their skills are extremely important, and it takes years and years of education to become one. All sound, logical reasons. But these traits that doctors possess are universal. So why is it, she asked, that doctors in Russia are so lowly paid? Making less than £7,500 a year, it is one of the lowest paid professions in Russia, and poorly respected at that. Why is this?

The answer is crushingly, breathtakingly simple. In Russia, the majority of doctors are women. Here’s a quote from Carol Schmidt, a geriatric nurse practitioner who toured medical facilities in Moscow: “Their status and pay are more like our blue-collar workers, even though they require about the same amount of training as the American doctor… medical practice is stereotyped as a caring vocation ‘naturally suited‘ to women, [which puts it at] a second-class level in the Soviet psyche.”

What this illustrates perfectly is this — women are not devalued in the job market because women’s work is seen to have little value. It is the other way round. Women’s work is devalued in the job market because women are seen to have little value. This means that anything a woman does, be it childcare, teaching, or doctoring, or rocket science, will be seen to be of less value simply because it is done mainly by women. It isn’t that women choose jobs that are in lower-paid industries, it is that any industry that women dominate automatically becomes less respected and less well-paid.

“Men may cook or weave, or dress dolls or hunt humming birds, but if such activities are appropriate occupations of men, then the whole society, men and women alike, votes them as important. When the same occupations are performed by women, they are regarded as less important (Mead, 1949, p. 159).” https://www.questia.com/library/journal/1G1-19279160/in-a-complex-voice-the-contradictions-of-male-elementary

“The wage gap is a myth”

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drferox

The entire field of veterinary medicine says hello.

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systlin

Something I find incredibly cool is that they’ve found neandertal bone tools made from polished rib bones, and they couldn’t figure out what they were for for the life of them. 

“Wait you’re still using the exact same fucking thing 50,000 years later???”

Well, yeah. We’ve tried other things. Metal scratches up and damages the hide. Wood splinters and wears out. Bone lasts forever and gives the best polish. There are new, cheaper plastic ones, but they crack and break after a couple years. A bone polisher is nearly indestructible, and only gets better with age. The more you use a bone polisher the better it works.”

It’s just. 

50,000 years. 50,000. And over that huge arc of time, we’ve been quietly using the exact same thing, unchanged, because we simply haven’t found anything better to do the job. 

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skelenabones

given that i know a couple of the people involved in the 2013 paper that introduced this idea, i need to get at a part of this post. it’s using that old tumblr favorite narrative where dumb “scientists” are absolutely baffled by something until a smart person with practical skills (i.e., not like that worthless egghead academic knowledge) comes along and sets them straight, story implies the tool or practice is identical to exactly what we do now, etc. there are a couple of cases where that totally happened and was awesome (like that history of roman hair-dressing thing), but as far as i can tell or have heard no traditional leatherworkers were involved in this project. tools for working with leather, bone and otherwise, have been a part of archaeological collections spanning large chunks of human history - they didn’t need to show this tool to a leatherworker to recognize that, because some of the scientists involved are archaeologists and part of their goddamn life’s work is being able to recognize tools and what they are used for. 

more than that, a post like this actually misses the actually cool take-away message from the paper. namely, that neanderthals are a whole different species from us and there is a decent chance that this kind of leather-working tool (and how knows how much leather-working technique) may have actually been created by another species and then passed over to us in a process of cross-species cultural transmission. when you pair that with the growing evidence for interbreeding and us receiving part of our genome from neanderthals, it builds a cool picture of late neanderthals and early humans co-existing and integrating. 

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Irish people; The faeries aren’t real

Irish people; No fucking way will I go in that faerie ring

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false-dawn

Look, I don’t believe in God, but I will not disrespect the Good Gentlemen of the Hills. That’s just common sense.

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ohmeursault

Between this and the Icelanders with their elves I do not understand what is going on above the 50th parallel.

My general rule of thumb: you don’t have to believe in everything, but don’t fuck with it, just in case.

^^^ that part

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dduane

This is truer than true. Especially the Irish part.

Let me tell you what I know about this after living here for nearly thirty years.

This is a modern European country, the home of hot net startups, of Internet giants and (in some places, some very few places) the fastest broadband on Earth. People here live in this century, HARD.

Yet they get nervous about walking up that one hill close to their home after dark, because, you know… stuff happens there.

I know this because Peter and I live next to One Of Those Hills. There are people in our locality who wouldn’t go up our tiny country road on a dark night for love or money. What they make of us being so close to it for so long without harm coming to us, I have no idea. For all I know, it’s ascribed to us being writers (i.e. sort of bards) or mad folk (also in some kind of positive relationship with the Dangerous Side: don’t forget that the root word of “silly”, which used to be English for “crazy”, is the Old English _saelig_, “holy”…) or otherwise somehow weirdly exempt.

And you know what? I’m never going to ask. Because one does not discuss such things. Lest people from outside get the wrong idea about us, about normal modern Irish people living in normal modern Ireland.

You hear about this in whispers, though, in the pub, late at night, when all the tourists have gone to bed or gone away and no one but the locals are around. That hill. That curve in the road. That cold feeling you get in that one place. There is a deep understanding that there is something here older than us, that doesn’t care about us particularly, that (when we obtrude on it) is as willing to kick us in the slats as to let us pass by unmolested.

So you greet the magpies, singly or otherwise. You let stones in the middle of fields be. You apologize to the hawthorn bush when you’re pruning it. If you see something peculiar that cannot be otherwise explained, you are polite to it and pass onward about your business without further comment. And you don’t go on about it afterwards. Because it’s… unwise. Not that you personally know any examples of people who’ve screwed it up, of course. But you don’t meddle, and you learn when to look the other way, not to see, not to hear. Some things have just been here (for various values of “here” and various values of “been”) a lot longer than you have, and will be here still after you’re gone. That’s the way of it. When you hear the story about the idiots who for a prank chainsawed the centuries-old fairy tree a couple of counties over, you say – if asked by a neighbor – exactly what they’re probably thinking: “Poor fuckers. They’re doomed.” And if asked by anybody else you shake your head and say something anodyne about Kids These Days. (While thinking DOOMED all over again, because there are some particularly self-destructive ways to increase entropy.)

Meanwhile, in Iceland: the county council that carelessly knocked a known elf rock off a hillside when repairing a road has had to go dig the rock up from where it got buried during construction, because that road has had the most impossible damn stuff happen to it since that you ever heard of. Doubtless some nice person (maybe they’ll send out for the Priest of Thor or some such) will come along and do a little propitiatory sacrifice of some kind to the alfar, belatedly begging their pardon for the inconvenience.

They’re building the alfar a new temple, too.

Atlantic islands. Faerie: we haz it.

The Southwest is like this in some ways. You don’t go traveling along the highways at night with an empty car seat. Because an empty car seat is an invitation. You stick your luggage, your laptop bag, whatever you got in that seat. Else something best left undiscussed and unnamed (because to discuss it by name is to go ‘AY WE’RE TALKING BOUT YA WE’RE HERE AND ALSO IGNORANT OF WHAT YOU’RE CAPABLE OF’ at the top of your damn lungs at them) will jump in to the car, after which you’re gonna have a bad time.

If you’re out in the woods, you keep constant, consistent count of your party and make sure you know everyone well enough that you can ID them by face alone, lest something imitating a person get at you. They like to insert themselves in the party and just observe before they strike. It’s a game to them. In general you don’t fuck with the weird, you ignore the lights in the sky (no, this isn’t a god damn night vale reference, yes I’m serious) and the woods, you lock up at night and you don’t answer the door for love or money. Whatever or whoever’s knocking ain’t your buddy.

^ So much good advice in this post right here

I live in the south and… you just… don’t go into the woods or fields at night.

Don’t go near big trees in the night

If you live on a farm, don’t look outside the windows at night

I have broken all these rules.

I’ve seen some shit.

If it sounds like your mom, but you didn’t realize your mom is home…. it’s not your mom. Promise.

One walked onto the porch once. Wasn’t fun. But they’re not super keen on guns. Typically bolt when they see one.

You think it’s the neighbor kids.

It’s not the neighbor kids.

Might sound like coyotes but you never really /see/ the coyotes but then wow that one cow was reaaaaaally fucked up this morning. The next night when you hear another one screaming you just turn the tv up a little more. Maybe fire a gun in the air but you don’t go after it. If it is coyotes then it’s probably a pack and you seriously don’t want to fuck with that and if it’s the other thing you seriously REALLY don’t want to fuck with that.

So in the south, especially near the mountains, you just go straight from your car to inside your house, draw your curtains and watch tv.

If you see lights in the fields just fucking leave it alone.

Eyes forward. Don’t be fucking stupid. Mind your own business. Call your neighbors and tell them to bring the cats in. There’s coyotes out. Some of them know. Most of them don’t.

Other than that everything’s a ghost and they died in the civil war. Literally all of everything else is just the civil war. We used to smell old perfume and pipe tobacco in the weeks leading up to the battle anniversaries.

Shit’s wild and I sound fucking crazy but I swear to god it’s true.

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darthstitch

In the Philippines, you laugh at us for pointing with our lips.

Trust me. It’s a thing every Filipino can do.

We don’t point because it is impolite. It’s a holdover from the provinces. You don’t point because Somebody Unseen will take offense.

When you walk in the fields, you always say “Tabi tabi po” (Pardon me, excuse me, just passing through) as a sign of respect. Especially if you need to answer nature’s call and there’s no bathroom to go to.

You never knock over little mounds because the Old Nuno lives there.

You turn your clothes inside out if you get lost walking in the woods or in the Mountains, because you know They are playing tricks on you.

You never mess with an old balete tree. It is Their home.

Faerie lives in the Philippines too. And we give them the respect they deserve.

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