All Frescos: Symbols in Dragon Age Art (Part 1)

When is a triangle not a triangle?

So....Tevinter Nights!  Still reading it, but you know me and maps.  I kind of like them.  And while the book’s map is short on details, it had one very interesting image that caught my eye.  

Let me zoom in a bit for you.

What an interesting depiction of the Veil!  Complete with spikey projections!!  Then I thought...we’ve seen those triangles before. Here they are clearly labeled as a visual representation of the Veil.  And if they represent the Veil between the Fade and the Mortal World then...

....it is very likely that they mean the same thing here.  

So this image may well be meant to show Solas creating the Veil.  

Now that alone might not be groundbreaking.  I think many of us thought that the triangles could represent magic or the Fade, but it seems to be more specific than that.  These triangles are the Veil in Solas’ art.  

Taking this as a working theory, then some interesting tin-foil hat analyses of the his other frescos is possible.  Here is what I am thinking:

They Sleep, Masked in a Mirror

Cole: They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting, and to wake them...

You know....when you look at it like this, they really do look like figures hidden in eluvians.  Complete with orbs in front of them.  Considering it is found in the Vir DIrthara, this is totally a legitimate way of looking at this mural.

-MM

Symbols and Signs: More Thoughts on the Dread Wolf Rises

Wow!  Thanks for all the comments, reblogs, and asks!  It’s great to read all y’alls thoughts on our posts.

And looking at how many of said comments, reblogs, and asks have to do with whether the figure in the new picture is Solas and if the orbs around the idol represent the Old Gods it looks like we need to share some of the method to our madness.  Now that our initial flailing about DA4 being a reality is under (mostly) control, I’ll try to break down our thinking.

We immediately believed the figure, the central circle, and the wolf represented Solas given his Inquisition tarot cards, the Heirophant, the Hermit, and the Tower.  There were just so many visual similarities and elements from these cards incorporated into the design of this new mural that we were pretty confident about saying the figure was Solas.  Nick Thornborrow later confirmed that the figure was bald directly, and that it was Solas indirectly (sort of), on his twitter account.

So we know visual elements associated with Solas were carefully incorporated into the new image to echo the symbolism of the earlier tarot cards.  It therefore stands to reason that other symbols in the Dread Wolf Rises mural could be found in “Solas’ art” throughout the games.  The one below, in particular, caught our eyes:  

In this mural, a Titan has been felled and its heart taken.  Notice that the asterisk symbol representing the heart or orb is the same as the half circles in the Dread Wolf Rises mural.  

This is what led us to conclude that the half circles represented orbs, like Solas’, rather than the Old Gods.  If they represented orbs, then seven orbs suggested the possibility that they represented the seven Evanuris imprisoned in the Fade.  We also think that the large circles represent the Veil, cutting off both Evanuris and Titans from waking world.  `

(Side note: Doesn’t the “eye” above the Titan look like the Inquisition’s original sigil?  The Inquisition of Old’s goal was to control Fade magic.  The symbols presence in this mural makes me wonder again if the mages and templars are just the newest recruits in an age old war, one first fought by the Evanuris and the Titans.)

The presence of the idol definitely suggests a connection to the taint, but perhaps not to the Old Gods.  The idol is actually way older than the Blights, suggesting it is tied to the origin of the taint, not necessarily the Old Gods who are untainted until they are found and awakened by the darkspawn.  

Symbols, however, often have multiple interpretations depending on the point of view of the audience.  (Decima is working on a post about exactly this in regards to the tree behind the figure in the Dread Wolf Rises.)  Could the orbs represent the Old Gods?  It’s certainly possible.  Especially if the Old Gods are connected to the Evanuris.  

Setting the half orbs along side Solas and the red lyrium idol suggests a connection between all of them.  Solas definitely has strong feelings about the Blight, Grey Wardens, and beings like Corypheus who delve into tainted magics.  He expresses concern about the Blight and the methods the Grey Wardens employ to combat the archdemons several times in Inquisition so it is a logical premise that these orbs could also represent the two remaining Old Gods.  

The Wyrd Sisters have always hesitated to infer that the Evanuris and the Old Gods are one and the same.  With that being said, however, we do think they are connected.  We just think it’s more likely that the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones and/or the Champions of the Evanuris rather than the Evanuris themselves.  Connected, but not the same beings.  Cassandra’s thinking follows similar lines when she discusses Corypheus’ dragon with Solas:

After Here Lies the Abyss:

The Old Gods could be part of what is tethering the Evanuris to the Black City.  If the Old Gods were their Champions (“pets”), they would be bound to the Evanuris in a similar manner to how Morrigan or the Inquisitor is bound to Flemythal if they take on the geas from the Well of Sorrows.  Perhaps the Old Gods have to be killed in order to sever those bonds and allow the Evanuris to be escape the Black City.  Bonds to the mortal world make it damn near impossible for spirits (and elves who can take on spirit forms) to return to drop their connections to the mortal world and travel the Fade uninhibited. 

How do you bind a god?  Use the chains they created for others against the gods themselves.  

This would explain why Solas shits a proverbial brick when he thinks about the Grey Wardens slaying the Old Gods.  They are “freeing” the Evanuris of one of their bindings.  This might also explain why the Old Gods are not corrupted until the darkspawn find them.  The Evanuris are “singing” to them through their agents.  They can then control the archdemons through their bond with their champions.  Anyway, thoughts for another day and a more coherent post.

-MM

Post scripts (because I can’t stop thinking about all this!)

-An interesting point that Decima brought up as we were talking about this post is that the innermost circle of the Dread Wolf Rises mural looks like it has eluvians crossing the Veil circle.  Some of these “eluvians” are dark and dormant.  Others are active and in use.  Could symbolize Solas’ use of the eluvian network as well as the potential for eluvians to breach the Veil allowing access to the Fade (a la Kieran).  Great catch on her part, me thinks!

-The Old Gods’ song calls to the darkspawn, Titan song on the other hand repels them.  The darkspawn are compelled to find the archdemon, but they never set foot in the Primeval Thaig.  Why?  

-Several of the Old Gods seem to have been imprisoned near Titans.  Were they “standing guard” over the Titans?  Or were they their jailers?  Prepared to give warning if they ever woke up?

-Are the Titans asleep...or tranquil?  Did Corypheus’ actions at the Temple of Sacred Ashes “reconnect” the Varta’s Titan to the Fade?  So many possibilities, so little time!

-Last thought (because I have to undermine myself).  If the Old Gods were the Evanuris then they are “fragments” similar to how Flemythal can separate pieces of herself in order to escape death and destruction.  When the Darkspawn find an Old God, the taint creates an instant connection between the imprisoned (and likely mad with Blight sickness) Evanuris and this fragment of their former selves.  

Stars and Guarders: Random Thought Blog #6

One of our recent posts had an interesting response from @thereallonelyagain​ .  I was thinking quite a bit about it this week and, naturally, I had to share the results of that thinking.  

I read quite a bit about navigation and astronomy instruments, including astrolabes, while I was in high school and in my early college years.  I was writing fanfiction for a very different fandom at that time that I felt required knowledge of 16th century sailing.  I did notice that the globes in the Brecilian ruins resembled an orrery under glass and the orbs I jokingly called “weird ass whirligigs” do bear a resemblance to a dioptra or an armillary sphere.  So could they be used for astronomy?  

In order to prove a connection to Thedosian astronomy, we should expect to find similar traits to an observatory in our world.  We should find star charts and writings that describe the heavens and the movement of celestial bodies around Thedas (murals, paintings, or starry images would be a start), multiple instruments that can be used to make observations of such things, and an unobstructed view of the sky.  I can’t definitely find any of these things in the Brecilian Forest ruins, but there is a case to be made for all of them being present in the Western Approach, specifically at Coracavus and the Still Ruins.  Items and evidence found there suggests there could also be a connection between the Fade, Time Magic, and Thedas astronomy...maybe.

Here is what I’ve got:

Globes and Circles: More from the Brecilian Forest

Thanks for the great ask, Nony!  This was so much fun to investigate!  

Is it any wonder that the Brecilian Forest is one of our favorite areas to theorize about?  So many interesting details to dissect!  Is there something going on with the globe and the circles?  Almost certainly!  Are they related to the Veil artifacts?  Possibly!  And the Forest Ruins are just the beginning.

Death in the Fade: A “Baroness” of Purpose - Justice Outside of the Fade (Part 3 of 3)

Last part of the Death in the Fade series:

Part 1: Death in the Fade

Part 2: If a Sylvan Falls In a Forest…

Part 3: A Baroness of Purpose - Justice Outside of the Fade

Theses (I don’t often get to use the plural!): Justice is trapped in the mortal world due to his own desire to fulfill his purpose, his (mostly) mistaken belief that he will fade away and die without a host body, and his growing fascination with the waking world.  The spirits and demons that possess sylvans and corpses return to the Fade as energy, like any other spirit, unless outside forces intervene to continue their purpose.

A Baroness of Purpose: Justice Outside of the Fade

We’ve established that only spirits and demons with a strong will/sense of self and a desire to enter the waking world can push through the Veil of their own free will.  Cole and Solas say that this type of crossing can cause the spirit or demon to become more potent and powerful, even to develop a personality.  (One can only imagine how many times Imshael has gone back and forth over the ages.  He certainly has more ‘personality’ than many mortals!)  Weaker spirits can do the same where the Veil is thin or torn, but they often don’t have enough “self” to avoid being buffeted or driven mad.  Some dodn’t even want to come to the mortal world, but they were pulled in.  Such is the case with Justice. 

Justice  was almost certainly powerful enough to push across, but he had absolutely no desire to visit the mortal world.  He didn’t envy mortals.  He and other spirits pity them, thinking them trapped in a world devoid of beauty (video).  When the Baroness used the First’s life to rip open the Veil, she pulled the Warden, companions, and Justice along for the ride.  His will is strong enough to keep his mind intact during the initial shock, and his driving purpose to get justice for all the villagers of the Blackmarsh keeps him focused enough to hold it together in Kristoff’s body.  You actually can immediately offer to ‘double kill Kristoff’ (as you so perfectly put it), but he doesn’t particularly care for the idea:  

You can hear the fear and uncertainty in Justice’s voice when he refuses my kind offer to just kill him.  He knows almost nothing about crossing the Veil (video).  Is this lack of knowledge what keeps him pinned in Kristoff’s body and from being able to return to the Fade?  He does seem to be rather clueless about the Veil and the mortal world.  Comparing Justice’s circumstances with the few other spirits who experience something similar might provide some answers.

Command seems to be the most direct analogue to Justice’s situation.  Although it is never explicitly stated, Command doesn’t seem to have come to the waking world of her own free will.  It is likely that the Veil tear in Crestwood pulled Command across.  Once she is in the mortal world, she was confused and upset, but not immediately malevolent, another similarity between her situation and Justice’s.  She also seems trapped, partially because of her devotion to her purpose.  

Unlike Justice, however, Command does seem to know how to go back to Fade.  She just refuses to do so until something in the waking world obeys her command. Once her purpose is fulfilled, she goes back to the Fade with ease (video).  Is that all it takes?  Finish whatever goal or purpose brought the spirit to the waking world, and then slip back through?  Surprisingly, there are several pieces of lore that indicate it may be that simple.  It’s so easy, a wisp can do it (and Command and Cole).

Rhys doesn’t keep the wisp in the mortal world with force, he just asks it to do something.  Once the task is fulfilled, the wisp goes back to the fade with ease.  The same as Command.  The same as Cole, in fact (More on this in a minute).  So why not Justice?  There are several hints as to why Justice still can’t return to the Fade in the conversation that immediately follows the defeat of the Baroness:

Thing one: Justice is still confused about being in Kristoff’s body.  He can’t figure out how to release himself from it, but that is only a temporary confusion.  If you piss him off enough, he will extricate himself from Kristoff’s body right in front of you (video, not ours), and there are several possible epilogues in which Justice will do the same thing, but in less negative circumstances.  And then there is this conversation with Velanna:

Justice knows pretty early on that he could leave Kristoff’s body if he wanted to, but he doesn’t.  Why?

That leads us to thing two:  The warden can immediately give Justice a new purpose to fulfill after defeating the Baroness.  The spirit will avenge Kristoff’s death and help the Warden defeat the Mother.  This new purpose effectively sabotages Justice’s ability to return to the Fade, and the longer he is in the mortal world, the more causes he finds!  Aura.  Mages.  (Maybe someday it will be the elves’ turn...)  Goals keep him focused, but grounded.  He can’t be clear enough in his thoughts to figure out how to go back to the Fade when he has a purpose that needs to be fulfilled.  

And that leads to thing three:  Justice doesn’t believe he can survive in the mortal world without a host body.  And he doesn’t know what will happen to him if he dies in the waking world (video).  This explains why he won’t drop Kristoff, and why he keeps distracting himself from his predicament with more causes.  There seem to be several reasons why Justice believes he’ll die without a body to possess.  In the first conversation with him outside the Fade, Justice says that no spirit that has crossed the Veil has ever returned, which doesn’t quite jive with the lore we have especially mages summoning wisps and spirits (which spirit healers are known to do) and then releasing back to the Fade, but does reveal an interesting tidbit about Justice’s inner mind.  While he typically will say that it is possible that he could one day return to the Fade, in practical terms, he knows of no other spirits who have accomplished the task.  That would make anyone hesitant to try.  And the warden’s other companions do nothing to alleviate this fear.  Every time someone brings up the possibility of Justice separating from Kristoff, the conversation contains elements that prompt Justice to look for another host or fear for his own existence.  Thanks for that Sigrun.  

Then there are these little chats with Nathaniel:

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These trains of thought are continued in conversations Justice has with Velanna, but she adds observations that note how much Justice seems to be like the mortal world:

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Oghren even suggests that Justice is missing out on the full mortal experience because he doesn’t have a living human body.

Result of all of this?

None of Justice’s companions belief he can exist in the waking world without possessing a body, and this belief shapes Justice’s experiences in the waking world.  A similar situation occurs with Cole in Dragon Age: Asunder.  And that belief has power to affect Justice in dramatic ways if/when he does leave Kristoff’s body.  In Asunder Cole believed he needed to kill people who were in pain in order to exist.  He didn’t, but that belief shaped his reality enough to make him feel like he was fading away when he went for extended periods of time without killing.  It is very likely that Justice experiences something similar if the Warden kills him at Drake’s Fall or if he is killed at an non-upgraded Vigil’s Keep.  He believes he can’t live for long outside of the Fade without a body and he doesn’t know how to go back, so he approaches Anders with the offer to join.  Anders, ironically, never talks with Justice about the possibility of the spirit switching bodies, but conversations in Dragon Age 2 reveal that Anders also believed that Justice would die without a host.

In the case of Cole, Rhys eventually convinces him that it is wrong to kill and that he doesn’t need to do it in order to be remembered.  This change in belief has a dramatic effect.  Cole no longer feels like he is fading.  Could the trip to Adamant, his focus on Rhys, and their trip to the Fade have affected Cole too?  Possible, but they seem to have only distracted Cole from his unconscious spirit/demon purpose rather than changing his belief about his existence.  It is only after Cole learns that he is, in fact, a spirit from Lord Seeker Lambert, that he begins to truly manifest like a spirit again.  He remembers pushing through the Veil, he remembers the real Cole, and fears what he has become.  He still wants to help people and will kill to protect innocents (Lambert), but he doesn’t want to go back to the demon-like being he was in Asunder.  He stays with the templars so that they can kill him if he “goes dark” again.  Hence the Cole we meet in Inquisition.  Spirit, but a bit more because the mortal world is ‘sticking’ to him.  He remembers Cole’s pain as if it was his own.  It’s these painful memories that prevent him from going back to the Fade.  He actually knows how to return, but he is stuck.  

(If Cole is made more human, or if his personal quest has not yet been completed)

If the Inquisitor makes Cole more spirit, he immediately sheds all of that pain, forgives the templar who killed real Cole, and can go back to the Fade at any time.

Spirit Cole chooses to stay because he wants to continue fulfilling his purpose.  The spirit of Command stays in the mortal world for the same reason.  She can return, but refuses to go until something in the waking world obeys her.

If Justice believed he could remain in the mortal world without a host, he would in all likelihood become like spirit Cole.  (Or the Baroness (video).  Or Imshael.) Justice is no ordinary spirit.  He is more like Inquisition Cole, the Baroness, or Imshael than he probably would like.  He wants to evolve and become more.  He is learning from his companions, remembering more and more complex ideas. And he is feeling things his life in the Fade could not have prepared him for, especially concerning Aura, Kristoff’s wife (video).

Justice’s thoughts are becoming much more complex.  He remembers more.  He comes to think that the mortal world is beautiful and worthwhile (video). He admits several times that his thoughts dwell on Aura.  He says he wants to evolve and grow.  Honestly, he was on the path to pulling a Cole.  Given enough time, and the ability to hold his form, he would likely have become fully human.  The problem is he doesn't know such a thing is possible.  He doesn’t have Solas and Varric pulling at him, showing him what is possible.  Everything Justice knows suggests he will die without a host. He also appears to be doubting his own choices.  No matter what the warden tells him in their final conversation, it is clear that Justice is concerned about whether the feelings and experiences he is having in Kristoff’s body could someday cause him to become “perverted” by those desires and become a demon.  Maybe Justice even thought that a connection to a living host, who understood mortal feelings and experiences, would help him understand those feelings and keep them in check.

All of this adds up to a spirit who believes his existence is in peril, and by the time we get to the end of Awakening, it seems like Justice really wants to stay!  Over time, Justice develops a love for the mortal world and a desire to right the many wrongs he sees in Thedas.  This chain of events is what prevents Justice from returning to the Fade and sets him on the path towards his merger with Anders in DA2.  

That’s what the evidence suggests to us, anyway.  Anyone else have some thoughts to add?

-MM

Death in the Fade: If a sylvan falls in a forest... (Part 2 of 3)

We’ve answered part one of this ask in Death in the Fade, but it was a very long answer.  Let’s see if breaking it into three pieces will make it more user friendly. 

Part 1: Death in the Fade

Part 2: If a Sylvan Falls In a Forest...

Part 3: A Baroness of Purpose - Justice Outside of the Fade

Theses (I don’t often get to use the plural!): Justice is trapped in the mortal world due to his own desire to fulfill his purpose, his (mostly) mistaken belief that he will fade away and die without a host body, and his growing fascination with the waking world.  The spirits and demons that possess sylvans and corpses return to the Fade as energy, like any other spirit, unless outside forces intervene to continue their purpose.

If a sylvan falls in a forest, does its energy return to the Fade?  (Part 2 of 3)

Sylvans aren’t actually insane; they’re rage demons or other ‘aggressive’ spirits.  Trees offer so little resistance to possession that they don’t cause the spirit/demon to go insane.  It is, however, very rare for another type of demon to possess a tree, probably because rage demons are thought to be “weaker” than most other denizens of the Fade.  Other demons have better options, but rage demons apparently have to make due with whatever they can find as far as possessing shit goes.  Add their permanently irate nature and they spend their years in the mortal world attacking any passersby.  The Grand Oak is a rare example of a tree possessed by a different type of spirit, thus his gentle nature.  

Spirits or demons that possess corpses, on the other hand, are driven insane by their own actions:

“[After crossing the Veil, demons] attempt to possess the first living creature they see.  They are unable, however, to distinguish that which was once living from that which still is... in fact, a corpse provides an even more tempting target to a weaker demon as it has no will with which to resist the possession. The demon cannot rationalize why this is so; it only sees a target and grasps at the opportunity.

A skeleton is exactly that: a corpse animated by a possessing demon. Upon finding itself trapped within a body that cannot sustain it, the demon is driven insane... it seeks to destroy any life that it encounters, attacking without thought to its own welfare.”  -Codex

Justice, again, must be exceptional because he wasn’t driven mad when he was torn through the Veil and forced into Kristoff’s body.

All the evidence so far implies that sylvans and corpses would typically return to the fade as energy like any other spirit or demon.  There are codex entries, however, that say that spirits and demons who are destroyed become wisps or wraiths in both the waking world and the Fade.  This sounds to us like the first step in the spirit reforming its consciousness, slowly gathering more energy and knowledge until it discovers wonders in the Fade and the mortal world.  Wisps seem to be able to cross the Veil with relative ease, probably because their limited consciousness is too slight to be damaged in the passage.  Mages summon wisps to aid with spellcasting, especially healing.  It is likely that wisps can also be corrupted like any other spirit, which results in the nasty wisps that lead travelers astray to their doom.  The codex entry also suggests that wisps or wraiths are the remnants of powerless spirits or demons, suggesting that they were almost destroyed but retain some of their purpose.

In order to fully reform, Solas says that the spirit or demon must be powerful by nature, or be attached to a purpose that is common in the world such as rage, or they need a potent memory to shape their energy.  People like the Avvar use their collective thoughts, dreams, and memories to speed this process along and eventually have a spirit that is or is like their fallen god.  So, unless the corpse or sylvan really makes an impression on the people it meets or is stronger than the average, it is unlikely to reform in a complex way.  But there are always a few exceptions.

The Grand Oak would probably have a better chance at respawning.  He is clearly a more complex spirit, although what type is up for debate, and certainly makes an impression of the mortals he encounters.  The only thing that might trip him up is that he lives in a pretty scary ass forest that few people, besides the Dalish, would want to live in.

Corpses possessing demons respawning would also be quite rare, but there is one very clear precedent for such an occurrence.  The “magister” (arcane horror) who cursed the Stone Brothers in Awakening does respawn, ironically, because the Statue of War cannot stop thinking about taking revenge on the magister who cursed him.  War’s memories draw other demons who then possess the body of the dead magister or cause the spirit that first possessed the magister’s corpse to reform, making it seem as if the magister cannot be killed.  An immortal stone statue hating on a dead magister is probably an atypical occurrence so this isn’t likely to happen too often.  (So...maybe I actually helped the Statue of War because I told him to forget about his anger and go to sleep, then killed the shit out of that magister.  Stay forgotten this time, you bastard!)

-MM

Well Shit: Dirth of Knowledge (Part 3 of 4)

Previously on “Well Shit”, we deduced that Mythal’s Well was used to keep sensitive information in the hands of loyal (*cough* geas: ie magical binding for instant loyalty and controlability) followers, and that it may have originally been used to help elves and spirits manage emotions and personality which would make it more difficult for them to live in the Fade.  

The Well appears to have been essential to the Sentinels’ ability to preserve Mythal’s wisdom.  So why wasn’t the Well despoiled along with the rest of her temple?  Did the Well only contain the knowledge of the priests who survived the attack on Mythal’s temple?  Or was the destruction of her temple merely meant to break her worshipers’ will?  Could the geas binding the will of the Well’s recipient been enough to keep her rivals at bay?  Or did they already have all the knowledge they could have gained from Mythal’s Well from another source?  There was, after all, an elven god devoted to knowledge and secrets...

It would stand to reason that Mythal wouldn’t be the only Evanuris to have an ultra secure pool of knowledge just for the most faithful of followers.  Of all of the elven gods, Dirthamen seems even more likely than Mythal to keep a repository of hidden knowledge.  Does Dirthamen have a Well of Sorrows?  There is a pool of water in the inner sanctum of Dirthamen’s Temple.  Could this be the remnants of Dirthamen’s Well of Sorrows?  Or could his Well have been secreted somewhere else?  There are some interesting hints in the Lost Temple of Dirthamen that may indicate what happened to the knowledge collected from ages of priests who served The God of Secrets.  And it seems to be more of a horror story than a sad tale.

In visiting Mythal’s temple, we gained insights into how the ancient elven religion functioned.  Supplicants seeking her aid, judgement, or merely worshipping their goddess would complete rituals to show their devotion and worthiness to receive Mythal’s mercy.  Dirthamen’s temple seemed to have worked in a similar fashion, although supplicants had to demonstrate their worth before they ever reached the temple.  Elves seeking Dirthamen had to find his temple first!   Cue the quest for veilfire runes in the Exalted Plains:

Although the runes were moved when the elves reclaimed the Dales, their purpose remains the same.  Those who sought knowledge or aid from Dirthamen first had to prove their intellectual merit.  

Once the seeker found the temple, what would they have found?  Most of Dirthamen’s Temple look like catacombs a nightmare might question hanging out in.  Was it always like that?  And were Dirthamen’s followers always so...messed up?  

I see couple of possibilities: 1) The outer areas of the temple could have been another trial for supplicants, testing their mental toughness.  2) The temple was retrofitted to become a burial place after Dirthamen’s priests became so paranoid that they locked themselves in the temple and took their secrets to their graves (in the truest sense of the phrase).  3) It is also possible that Dirthamen’s priests once worked in tandem with servants of Falon’din to teach elves entering uthenera how to let go of their mortal forms to reach deeper levels of the Fade and find the knowledge they desired.  If elves entered uthenera in Dirthamen’s Temple, then the bodies might have been those trapped there when the Veil was created or they were deliberately killed in the war that came after, as Briala, Felassan, and their companions found in The Masked Empire:

4) Or the Dalish did it.  (More on this possibility later.)

But I digress.  What about the possibility of Dirthamen having a Well?  He’s the god of knowledge, for Void’s sake, so he must have had repositories of knowledge.  That was his whole ‘divine’ purpose.  So where are all the secrets?  Again, there are a couple of possibilities:

As alluded to in the analysis of “The Lost Temple of Dirthamen” codex above, Dirthamen gave his priests secrets to ‘hold’ for him until he took them back.  Could those secrets have been from his Well of Sorrows?  Did these secrets die with them?  Were they supposed to die with them?  Given that Mythal’s Well puts a geas on whoever partakes of the well, perhaps Dirth did the same.  Were the priests actually murderously paranoid or did their geas force them to bind that knowledge at the cost of their lives.  A final failsafe.  Perhaps the blood magic ritual the priests feared from the High Priest was actually an attempt to break the geas so that the knowledge of the temple would not be lost.  

Another possibility is that Dirthamen’s Well could not be stolen from his temple...because it wasn’t in his temple.  One thing that is very interesting about that ruin is that there are no effigies to Dirthamen (unless those death’s head statues are supposed to be him).  There are halla statues (Ghilan’nain), Mythal in her dragon lady form, and even statues of Fen’Harel near the entrance of the temple and in the innermost sanctum.  But there are more images of one particular elven god than any others: Falon’Din.  He is everywhere.  This leads to an interesting possibility.  In the oldest elven records, Dirthamen and Falon’Din are never directly named.  

Or it the “lost” temple really wasn’t lost.  Not only did treasure hunters find the temple, but they were well into the process of reassembling the High Priest.  If they could do it, so could many others.  In fact, we know that the Dalish discovered and moved all of the runes necessary to locate the temple when they settled in the Dales.  Dalish relics, like inuksuit and inunnguaq stone markers, are scattered throughout the ruin, and perhaps they were the one who buried so many bodies in the ruins.  In the almost 300 years that the elves ruled the region, it stands to reason that they sought out and recovered every piece of their heritage that they could put their hands on.  (The Dalish are, perhaps, following centuries of tradition from the Dales.)  I cannot help but think that Dirthamen’s temple would have been pretty high on their priority list and, while we players often think that our characters are the only ones badass enough to brave all these dangerous ruins, it is pretty clear others made it to this temple first.  While I doubt they were able to recover all of God of Secrets knowledge, I really hope they found some of it.   

[I wonder if the shield, Dirthamen’s Wisdom, was returned by Dalish worshippers after the fall of the Dales while they were interring a deceased loved one (a Keeper, perhaps) in the Temple.  There are tons of Dalish relics in the Inner Sanctum so they seem to have made it in there as well.]

I wonder if Dirthamen would only use one means of protecting his secrets.  A god of wisdom wouldn’t put all of his eggs in one basket, would he?  So perhaps he had several “Wells of Knowledge” hidden in different ways to prevent any one person or groups with ill intent from obtaining his wisdom.  Whether any of these measures were enough (or even existed) remains to be seen.  

The final possibility is the one alluded to in this post’s introduction: Could the elves who destroyed Mythal’s Temple left her Well of Sorrows intact, not only to avoid the geas, but because they already had all the knowledge they needed?  Solas tells us that the Evunaris were generals before they were gods.  Was Dirthamen to the Evunaris as Leliana is to the Inquisition?  Their spymaster?  If that were the case, his temple would have been the first stop for anyone seeking the knowledge to overthrow the Evanuris.  The priests of Dirthamen seemed certain that someone was coming for their knowledge.  Could it have been Solas’ rebels?  Some other faction, perhaps based out of Arlathan itself?  Something in the Fade sure seems to believe that Dirthamen was betrayed, and what greater betrayal could there be than for someone to steal your life’s work.  

The sword in the back could even indicate it could have been someone close to him?  Falon’Din, or perhaps Ghilan’nain, might fit the bill.

It is even possible that part or all of Dirthamen’s secrets were stolen before the Fall of the Elvhen Empire.  The “Sinner” gained the ability to transform into a dragon at Ghilan’nain urging.  Morrigan gains the exact same ability if she is allowed to drink from the Well of Sorrows.  Did the Sinner drink from Dirthamen’s Well?  If Dirthamen had been robbed once, he might have gone to extreme measures to protect his remaining secrets, including giving that knowledge to his most loyal priests with a geas to take his secrets to their graves.  

So what does this add up to?  A whole lot of maybes...but pretty interesting maybes.  The most likely end for Dirthamen’s Well of knowledge is that it died with his priests’ madness.  I’m going to keep my fingers crossed that one of the less likely, but more dramatic, scenarios turns out to be the truth.

So far we have only visited two of the Evanuris’ temples in game: Mythal’s and Dirthamen’s.  At least, as far as we know.  There is, however, a very interesting ruin with human and elven ties that sure seems to have Well of Sorrows.  The problem is, it’s hard to say whether it is an original, a remnant, or an attempt at a recreation.  The Brecilian Forest is our next stop.

-MM

Think you missed part of the “Well Shit” series?  Here are our previous posts:

Part 1: Searching for the Secrets of the Elvhen Gods

Part 2: Origins of the Vir'abelasan

Part 3: Dirth of Knowledge

Part 4: The Elvhen Ritual

Well Shit: Searching for the Secrets of the Elvhen Gods (Part 1 of 4)

So anyone else think that there are more “Well of Sorrows” in the series than just Mythal’s?  It’s clear that groundwork was laid for shit to go down with the elven gods, their eluvians, the titans, and much more since the beginning of the series.  It stands to reason that there may well have been other Wells shown earlier in the series...so let the speculations commence!

The Well of Sorrows

Mythal’s Well is in an interesting place in her temple.  The innermost sanctum.  A sacrosanct place meant only for her most trusted servants, not everyday worshipers or those seeking her judgement.  According to Abelas, Mythal’s servants deposited their knowledge in the well so it wouldn’t be lost when they entered Uthenera.  

Now I don’t know about you folks, but that seems like a very inefficient way to collect information you may need again some day.  The Vir Dirthara, on the other hand, seems to be completely composed of memories that the archivist spirit, Ghil-Dirthalen, tended so that they would be easily accessible to knowledge seekers from all parts of the elven empire.  The Shattered Library was used for recording memories for those entering Uthenera as well regular and irregular record keeping, such as elves trapped there when the Veil went up.

The fact that memories could have been recorded in a more organized fashion, but were instead dumped into the Vir’Abelasan suggests that this knowledge was not meant for general consumption and was not meant to be viewed repeatedly.  It was collection for a chosen recipient, someone worthy of and talented enough to hold the collected ages of wisdom that was gathered from the temple guardians.  A “chosen one”, in other words.  Someone prepared and willing to take all of the information that the Well contained, an idea that is eerily similar to Corypheus’ plans for Calpurnia/Samson.  A vessel for the knowledge in the Well.  A living archive who would be able to access relevant information in the blink of an eye or the whisper of a thought.

This implies that Mythal’s priests know shit that one would not want circulated among the general public.  Add a geas to keep the recipient loyal, even if they happened to not be one of your followers, and you have a system that could pass on sensitive information with a reasonable surety that it would remain in the family.  Only later did it become a repository for everything that the guardians of her temple knew so it would not be lost as their immortality faded.

-MM  

 PS - We are trying not to overwhelm people with too much info in one post, so this is part one of four.  The rest will posted around this time over the rest of this week.  You can also find search for posts by topic on our Navigation page.

Part 1: Searching for the Secrets of the Elvhen Gods

Part 2: Origins of the Vir’abelasan

Part 3: Dirth of Knowledge

Part 4: The Elvhen Ritual

Death in the Fade (Part 1 of 3)

Thanks for the ask!  I hope we are the right blog, because you gave us an excuse to research some of our favorites: Spirits, Justice, Cole, and Fade shenanigans.  Ironically, I was writing about spirits and Fade crossings for another post when I got distracted by Elgar’nan.  Here’s what Decima and I are thinking on this:

Theses (I don’t often get to use the plural!): Justice is trapped in the mortal world due to his own desire to fulfill his purpose, his (mostly) mistaken belief that he will fade away and die without a host body, and his growing fascination with the waking world.  The spirits and demons that possess sylvans and corpses return to the Fade as energy, like any other spirit, unless outside forces intervene to continue their purpose.

Death in the Fade 

First let’s back up for a minute and review what we know about spirit death.  Our best sources for what happens to spirits who die after crossing over to the physical world come from Solas, Cole, and the Avvar.  

The impression we got from Solas’ conversation after the All New, Faded for Her quest is that all spirits return to the Fade when they are killed, but as energy rather than as a sentient entity.  They might reform in time, but they typically lose all the will, purpose, and sense of self they have accumulated over the ages.  Spirits already have a hard remembering things (video).  This helps them stay pure but also makes it rare for spirits to develop the will to form a purpose.  

(Interestingly, when Cole’s connection to the Fade is strongest, he doesn’t need to eat or sleep.  As this bond grows weaker, he will in all likelihood begin to eat, sleep, and do everything else mortals do.  It is almost the perfect reversal of elves who achieve the ultimate connection to the Fade in uthenera and no longer need to eat.  All of their physical needs are met by the Fade.  All of this is echoed in the darkspawn’s connection to the taint.  They also don’t need sleep or food.  But I digress...)  

Once a spirit becomes interested in an idea, they develop purpose and their motivations can become increasingly complex.  More sticks to a spirit in this state, but they still tend to shuck off any memories that would be detrimental to their purpose.  That becomes very difficult, however, if the spirit is pulled across the Veil.

If a spirit is pulled across the Veil against its will, the waking world is often too much for them and they can be driven mad or are so frightened that the spirit lashes out violently.  The result is that most become demons.  Justice shows, however, that some spirits can withstand even the trauma of being sucked into the mortal world.  His ability to overcome the horror of waking up in Kristoff’s body is testament to his fortitude.  (More on what this usually does to spirits/demons in a minute.)  Still, that resolve may well have cracked if it were not for his burning desire to stop the Baroness.  He had watched the people of the Blackmarsh suffer, likely for decades, and finally decided to act some time before the Warden arrived.  His battle with the Baroness likely gave Justice enough focus to help him to withstand the initial trauma of crossing the Veil.  If he had been twisted from his purpose immediately, as Wisdom was, things might have gone down very differently with Justice.

The pain and confusion of being forced across the Veil and the shock of reality seems to block a spirit’s natural ability to clean itself of pain and memory, preventing it from resetting itself to realign with its sense of purpose.  Death seems to be the ultimate restart.  If the spirit reforms at all, it may be very different than who they were before unless the memory of the previous spirit helps to shape them.  Cue the Avvar:

So mortals can influence a new spirit to take on the purpose of a dead spirit, even assuming its identity if the memories are strong and clear enough to shape it.  We witness the beginning of this cycle in the Jaws of Hakkon.  The Avvar will use their collective memories to influence another spirit to become their god.  Voila! Spirit reborn...sort of.  There are even hints that the original energy of a dead spirit could be influenced to remember it’s old life if enough time, thought, energy was dedicated to that purpose.  So why doesn’t Solas just hang out with Wisdom’s energy in the Fade and tell her all about her old self until she remembers who she was?  One: He’s going to be very busy with his plans for Thedas.  Two: He doesn’t seem to be planning to survive the next war.  There is evidence that creating the Veil almost killed him before and he hints that removing it will finish the job.  T_T  Without Solas, Wisdom is very unlikely to reform since she seems to have had little contact with mortals.  As Cole said, “he knew wisdom, as no man or spirit had before.”

-MM

We’ve answered part one of this ask in Death in the Fade, but it was a very long answer.  Let’s see if breaking it into three pieces will make it more user friendly.

Part 1: Death in the Fade

Part 2: If a Sylvan Falls In a Forest…

Part 3: A Baroness of Purpose - Justice Outside of the Fade

Random Thought Blog #5: The Mirror of Transformation!  The Makeover of a Mystery

Reviewing our posts (1, 2, 3) about eluvians the other day made me think about the lack of eluvians in DA2 other than Merrill’s troublesome mirror.  “Well,” thought I, “there is Xenon’s weird mirror, but that is just a courtesy to the fans and doesn’t really fit in the lore......wait a minute!  What if it is a really modded eluvian?”

Xenon the Antiquarian is an interesting fellow.  He is not a mage, but his money and long life have brought an untold number of enchanters and mages into his sphere of influence.  He even says that a magister miniaturized Chauncey for him.  In his centuries long search for amazing and magical artifacts, Xenon certainly would have encountered eluvians.  It also appears likely that his agents not only have figured out that these mirrors have magical properties, but have likely made use of the eluvian network.  (More on this in a minute.  Right now let’s set the stage...)

Xenon is always looking for ways to regain his youth and the eluvians probably presented a tantalizing option.  All he had to do was figure out the best way to harness and enhance their power.  We know there are spells that can change a person’s appearance as Wilhelm used magic twice to confirm that Maric was not a magical imposter.  That is a very specific fear to have and, given that shapeshifters like Morrigan exist, it certainly stands to reason that there is a human version as well.  Such an ability would almost certainly be a form of blood magic.  If such a spell was turned into an enchantment and was combined with what looks like a red lyrium enhancement, it might put Xenon on the right track to create the Mirror of Transformation.  

We know the eluvians allowed the ancient elves to travel and communicate great distances in a relatively short amount of time, using levels of connection to the Fade to facilitate the trip.  A connection to the Fade is embedded into every eluvian, so much so that when Merrill creates her mirror, it appears in the crossroads in spite of how little she knew about how they worked.  (That makes me wonder if the demon that taught her how to cleanse the mirror was actually trapped in a crossroads like place rather than just in the statue on Sundermount.  Sundermount, after all, is pretty connected to the Fade itself.  Even its name...Sunder.  Asunder.  Hmmmm.  Sounds like something to investigate at another time.)  So where does that leave the Mirror of Transformation?  

The Fade is the stuff of creation.  Thoughts and ideas can create a new reality, reshaping the unchanging world to reflect the will of the one who summons its power.  Xenon would have a vested interest in harnessing that power in order to reshape his flesh into a younger body.  So far, he doesn’t seem to have had much success.  The mirror doesn’t change your age, only your appearance, but he still seems to be working at it.  In DA2 his mirror looks like it has been modified with red lyrium, perhaps as a source of power.  Lyrium bridges the gap between the waking world and the Fade, so enchantments are literally imbuing objects with a connection to the realm of spirits.  And Xenon’s mirror is covered with the stuff!  It seems probable that the lyrium was meant to enhance the mirror’s transformative powers.  

Now here is where things get really weird.  The mirror we use in DA2 disappears sometime between 9:37 and 9:41, and is replaced with a shiny new version.  Perhaps the new mirror indicates that he somehow ‘broke’ the old one.  There are even baskets of red lyrium in the shop that might eventually be attached to the new mirror.  (Or Xenon got rid of the old mirror because the red lyrium tainted the mirror and he is just keeping the pieces to sell to people who are unknowing of how dangerous it is, or know but still use it (like the Inquisitor).  

Now...you might say that the developers simply used this eluvian so that they wouldn’t have to recreate the model for Merrill’s mirror...except, as you saw in the third image for this post that they did remake the mirror from DA2 for Inquisition (which is suggestive in and of itself.  The mirror is in a part of the crossroads that you can’t even see without using the flycam.  Why go to all the trouble of creating it when it was never used?  Was it originally for a cameo or a scrapped plotline?  Or is it for use in the future....).  So they could have used that mirror in the Emporium for Inquisition, but they chose not to.  There is also evidence that Xenon is taking his efforts to regain his youth to the next level...of the Fade, anyway.  

Accessing the Black Emporium sounds like it is a pretty complicated process, given that a Seeker could spend six months looking for it and not find it.  The shop wouldn’t, of course, actually be in the Fade, but Xenon may have found a way into a wedge it into a crossroads-like area.  He certainly seems to have access to Fade manipulated and Fade hidden objects.  How likely is it that Xenon’s people would just come across the Apples of Arlathan in a ruin and that they would still be in perfect condition?  And how is it that we can view Andraste in Nude Repose when it’s codex entry says that:

The statue is veiled by the Fade!  Even The Basket of Lost Socks and The Emergent Compendium make a lot more sense when a Fade connection is applied to the reading of their codices.  So it seems likely that Xenon knows the true purpose of the eluvians, and has deliberately modified the two in the Black Emporium to serve his purpose of trying to recover his lost youth.  He also seems to have used them in order to gain access to what may be the ultimate repository for arcane knowledge: The Vir Dirthara!

What in the Void is a shield that Xenon values enough to stamp with his name and insist that it should be returned to him doing in the Vir Dirthara?  How long has it been there and who took it there?  Whatever the answers to those questions are, the presence of the Best Defense in the Shattered Library suggests that Xenon’s agents were in the library.  It seems clear to me that Xenon is work on getting access to ancient elven knowledge, perhaps even the Fade itself.  He is likely already connected to the Fade in some way, due to his bargain with the Antivan Witch of the Wilds, but he might need to take that connection even farther.  He has a great start, save for losing his property in the Vir Dirthara.

Honestly, I am starting to suspect that Xenon is actually dead, but Yavana or a former Witch of the Weyrs ‘pinned’ his spirit to his flesh, which would grant him eternal life of a sort, but not eternal youth.  He has unknowingly been fighting to keep his decaying corpse from rotting away while looking for a way to regain his youth.  He could also be attached to the Fade in some uthenera like way, but the connection to the Fade is incomplete or weak due to Xenon not being a mage or perhaps a strong connection is not possible anymore due to the Veil.  Does he even need to eat anymore?!  Could the extra limbs he seems to have mean that he tried to trade bodies at some point in the past?!  So many possibilities!

We might get some new info on Xenon soon since the cover the next Dragon Age comic series features the statuesque form of former Knight-Commander Meredith and we know she is in the Black Emporium as of the start of Inquisition.

Whatever we learn, it should be interesting....

Orbs, the Veil, and Fen’Harel

inukagome15 said: You guys run an AWESOME blog! I'm super glad I found you. :D Your meta is awesome. And speaking of meta...I was wondering what your thoughts are on Solas and the orb he had Corypheus unlock? If the orb hadn't been destroyed by the end of the game, what do you think would have happened? 

Inukagome15, Thank you so much! We started this blog because we couldn’t stop talking about Dragon Age and it is incredibly exciting and validating to get comments like yours! We so appreciate you writing in!

As to your question, I think pre-Trespasser, we would have had a very different answer for you. We both, typically, have fairly optimistic views of our beloved DA characters, and Solas was no different. I personally felt that Solas revealed his character to us repeatedly throughout Inquisition, and that character was one of extreme benevolence. Yeah, I might have ignored some of the blaring warning signs, but even after he dumped my ass (crying on the cold wet ground by the waterfall…*cough* Where was I?), I would have never guessed the revelations we got in Trespasser about him.

The problem is that we’ve repeatedly been shown in the DA universe that our beloved characters are never one dimensional. That’s why we love them! They are living, breathing beings in this world, and as with us all, they have flaws. And after Trespasser I realized that one of Solas’ flaws was on par with other beloved (and oft maligned) characters, like Loghain and Anders. All three of these characters, to quote Alistair, “always think they’re the only ones who can fix things.”

That being said, I think Solas has illustrated that he absolutely would have used the orb to pull down the veil at his earliest convenience. Yeah, he would have been sad about it, but he’d still have done it because he’s clever, has been alive for a looooong time, and he thinks he’s right and justified to do so.

There is an argument that can be made that he’s not wrong! The way the elves have been treated is a travesty any way you look at it. But I guess my perspective on such things is that vengeance is a cycle. A merry-go-round from hell (or the void, as the case may be) that we only can get off if we stop the behavior. One war only begets other wars. One oppressed people rising above another to oppress them is no better than the previous group.

So what I’m hoping is that we are given time to smack Solas upside the head and try to reason with his thousands of year old self (and pray he’ll listen). To try to find a path that can benefit as many of the denizens of Thedas, with as minimal cost as possible.  There are always unknown ripple effects to such things, but that is a problem for another day (and game).

Morta will write up the more detailed, academic answer for you, but I thought I’d give you the “short” (by our standards) one. We’d love to hear what you think as well! We are always thinking about and revising our opinions based on new information and different perspectives.  We would love to hear from you again!

Thanks again,

Decima

  Thank you so much!  One of the most amazing things about the DA fandom is how many smart, insightful people are working together to analyze these games that we love.  I’m so grateful that Decima pulled me into Thedas.

Decima has some interesting thoughts about our dear Solas, so I will defer to her on that as I agree with pretty much everything she said.  As to what would have happened if the orb hadn’t been destroyed, I have some thoughts about that.  I’m also sure that Solas would have done what he said he would do in Trespasser.  Even if it was with a heavy heart, knowing that there were good people among the dwarves and humans and Qunari, he would have, within short order, used the power of the orb to enter the Fade and brought down the Veil.  

Since Decima has Solas’ character covered, I will focus on the effects of removing the Veil.  What might that do to Thedas?  We know what Solas said would happen, but why would the loss of the Veil be apocalyptic?

Uthenera and Back Again - A Theory on the Origins of the Elven People

This is a theory that has been percolating in the collective minds of the Wyrd Sisters of Thedas for many a moon. Indeed, an entry was very nearly written before the release of Trespasser, but upon its release the theory went through major updates to take into account the new information. As I’m sure most of you who are interested in Dragon Age lore know, there is A LOT of information to sift through, and this was no different.

Thesis Statement: The elven people are the descendants of spirits, made corporeal by crossing from the Fade into the physical world.