Seriously though. Chara and Undyne want the exact same thing. They both want to kill the humans and free the monsters, what keeps buzzing around in my brain is that their determination is geared in opposite directions:

 Chara was determined to die and Undyne is determined to live. Determination effectively makes both of them immortal, Chara is only stronger because they are human, but where Undyne is battling the heaviness of depression with everything she is, Chara gave in to it.

They are also both coarse and brash characters, but extremely protective of their loved ones. The difference again is that Chara (possibly because they were a child) wanted Asriel with them, they wanted a partner, whereas Undyne keeps acting as a literal shield to those who look up to her (Papyrus, MK).

So, I played Deltarune the other day, and I want to talk about this:

Ralsei’s prophecy

(Obvious spoilers for Deltarune and Undertale ahead)

First of all, it is very interesting how despite saying that this is the story of delta rune, Ralsei does not say how the delta rune itself fits into his story, not does it come up during the main plot of the game. I will dive into this a bit more later, but I want to examine some other things first.

The verb choice in this section is extremely interesting. He doesn’t say that these things WOULD happen, he says that they WILL happen, which says to me that they are inevitable. On top of this it says the heroes will arrive ONLY THEN, which means that all these bad things happening precludes the arrival of the heroes.

This means we haven’t saved the world yet since we can’t start saving it until it’s nearly destroyed.

We do not have proof that this is us, and it seems especially unusual because Lancer joined our team at the end and helped us win even though he’s wasn’t part of the final battle. There are only suppossed to be 3 heroes, and we know many other monsters who could fit the second role. It is also very interesting Ralsei implies the prince is him, but Lancer is also a prince from the dark who could fit the third role.

I think these two lines are the single most important for stating that we’re not done yet and that there’s much more to come.

Only they can seal the fountainS. PLURAL. And there is only one other fountain we know about .

At the center of the kingdom, under the care of Ralsei, whose name is an anagram for Asriel.

(I don’t trust him)

The second line is especially unusual and not something that we did at all. It’s not clear what the ANGEL’S HEAVEN is, but it was definately not any part of the King’s evil plan.

I think it may refer to why everything is so weird and different to Undertale in the overworld. The world of Deltarune resembles a lot of Undertale fan works in that it has the human living on the surface with Toriel as their mom, and Asriel was somehow magically saved and is their brother. For a lot of people, this is the ideal ending, and can be seen as a ‘heaven’ of sorts. This implies that part of the plot of future parts of the game is ending this false, idealized world the human is living in.

This raises the question of who the ‘angel’ in the prohecy is, and this is where we get back to the Delta Rune.

For anyone who needs a refresher, here is the meaning of the Delta Rune as stated in Undertale:

Now, by this earlier prophecy, the angel can be one of three people: Asriel, Chara, or Frisk.

They all see the surface, they are all involved with the Underground going empty, one way or another, and they all leave the Underground and return (Frisk using resets).

I think the angel in the prophecy is Asriel because of the Asriel/Ralsei connection I mentioned before, the shadow well under Ralsei’s control, Asriel’s god of hyperdeath form looks like it has wings, and most notably, Asriel is also very close to an anagram for Raziel, a famous fallen angel.

I think this may be a false world that Asriel created where he can be happy with his sibling. It is also notable that Kris is very close to an anagram for Frisk, but Kris seems to look and act more like Chara, while Asriel treated Frisk as Chara because he wanted his sibling back.

This raises the question of why Asriel would do this? The answer is simple, and boils down to his main motivation from the first game:

He wants to spend time with the people he cares about, especially Chara. Even if nothing changes from loop to loop, even if everything changes, even if he’s a terrible person in the process. He just doesn’t want to let go of what he had.

my current understanding of the utdr universe(?) including fanon, headcanons and speculation

under the assumption that boss monsters both actually have paw pads and that they also work similarly to hands in order for them to actually hold things, what would the actual paw prints look like, because if you think about it logically with 5 digits they would end up with something similar to a possum’s. or with more pronounced separation maybe like a marten’s

I noticed the Undertale fandom has trouble differentiating between the player and Frisk & Chara so I made a little diagram, hope this helps someone!

do any of you ever think about how in the pacifist route asriel dreemurr is like “THIS is how the world works and it CAN’T be changed and I KNOW this because i SAW it when *I* fucked everything up” and then in the no mercy run of undertale chara dreemurr is like “THIS is how the world works and it CAN’T be changed and I KNOW this because i SAW it when *I* fucked everything up”

Asriel is in denial that he can be considered the same person as “Flowey“ in Pacifist, but I honestly think it’s just that: denial. Flowey acts like Asriel enough in the game, and Asriel (namely in the Pacifist bossfight) like Flowey, that I think saying there’s any hard distinction between the two characters is silly. He’s One Guy. He always has been, and he just doesn’t want to confront that the things he feels guilty for and the things he feels proud of were done by the same person.

And a lot of his violent actions can be viewed as a form of trauma-reenactment play, often seen in children with PTSD… does that make him hurting people ok? No. But, like. I don’t think it’s actually just “he’s a sadist,“ even if Flowey himself lacks any other framework to understand what he’s doing and how he feels.

If people see the kid Chara when they were alive and post-mortem “demon” Chara in the genocide route as one and the same, I don’t know why Asriel/Flowey is exempted from the “evil” tag.

They’re both kids who had to take decisions and endure existences most kids don’t even have to think of.

And those experiences eventually twisted their minds and made them not who they once used to be.

I’m not saying to think of them as evil.

I’m just saying to look at them and understand why they are the way they are.

Me: Huh, “you dirty brother killer” is such a specific sentance. Like i get sans is mad about us killing his brother but like doesn’t that sentance imply it’s a passtime? that we did it more…..than……..once………………..oh god oh jesus no nonononononononononononnonono

people still think that chara was closer to asgore huh

chara is clearly meant to take after their mother, and asriel is clearly meant to take after asgore. basically chara and toriel are much more connected than chara and asgore and i think it’s way more likely that they were closer to her.

ESPECIALLY since asgore only mentions one kid at the end of his boss fight. “i remember the night my son died” just asriel died apparently! and “i just want to see my child” singular, and there’s no way he’d be referring to just chara there. his whole human-killing thing was done in asriel’s name after all. plus flowey says flat out that what asgore gave chara was not a proper burial, and toriel took it upon herself to rectify that by taking chara with her.

also worth noting that overall, toriel actually has compassion for human children, and asgore would rather kill them (you can’t deny that because if he would have preferred to not kill them than he wouldn’t have) so in terms of who would be closer to chara? toriel, hands down.

“sans is a hero and he bravely confronts you in a no mercy run in a righteous rage to get revenge for the lives you’ve taken and he fights you with his full power to save the whole world!” undyne is right there

“sans is a genius scientist who was gaster’s right hand and he helped build the core and make all sorts of important scientific discoveries about determination and resets, and it’s sad to see him so depressed and unmotivated knowing what he used to be!” alphys is right there

“sans is so depressed about losing so many people close to him so he isolates himself and can’t motivate himself to do anything about very real problems because he’s just so sad and lonely and scared!” toriel is right there

I mean like Sans does canonically have depression but he copes with it by being apathetic and making jokes about it. He doesn’t really cope with it the exact same way Toriel does. But OP’s post is still very valid.

Toriel copes by isolation. Sans copes by never not doing something. He’s either working, chatting and joking, on his phone, or sleeping. He’s never not doing anything, because when that happens he’s confronted with his own thoughts and he hates it. So he talks to people. It’s the easiest way to push away hope thoughts and pretend to be happy for a while. But in genocide, there is no one. No one to talk to. Nothing to do. So the only thing left to do is fight, because there is nothing else to do

yeah so to clarify, this post is about how people make up angsty shit for sans, when (female) characters exist who Actually Are That Deep and have pretty much that exact same angsty shit going on in canon, but get ignored in favour of said made-up sans fanon

sans is definitely depressed, but the way people portray his depression in the fandom with him being sad and lonely is wayyy more applicable to toriel than to sans, who in canon has a pretty large social circle and honestly seems to express his depression more as barely suppressed anger than all the fanon weepy shit

if people want a character who is sad and lonely to write/draw angst then they don’t have to transplant those traits on to sans, they can leave them with toriel (as they are canonically) and give her some actual respect and attention

sometimes I think about how Undyne’s magic was the color of kindness, and what that means for someone who chose to go into the guard and who thinks about her friends and pounds the ground in anger and who loves so fiercely and has undoubtedly taken a life, someone who says, “do you think it’s funny when people don’t come home?” and who teaches you how to cook

undyne who taps into the earth so deeply she can feel the hearts of others beating as one

I really like the idea that Undyne being kindness shows you that “kindness doesn’t mean you’re a pushover.” That’s also one of the reasons that Papyrus being orange/bravery has grown on me so much, because it shows that bravery isn’t just about beating your opposition into the ground, it’s about having the courage to stick to your morals even in the face of death.

Chara = Narrator on all routes is canon

I was putting this in that CHARActer analysis in my drafts but my dudes, I can’t keep this nugget to myself for however much longer it takes to finish that utter monster of a post.

Okay, so here’s Frisk in the first room. Guess what?

There’s no narration in this room. You can viciously stomp all these flowers without a single snarky comment. (This is true for both the demo and the finished version, even in the latest patch, 1.001.)

Until right after Flowey’s fight. 

You backtrack even two seconds after that fight and there it is, the narration. 

(also: the narrator says “they must have broken your fall”. Not “they broke your fall”. They weren’t there to see Frisk’s fall after all.)

Hey…what did that Flowey fight look like again?

Chara’s name isn’t there.

And guess what? Neither are your options. Neither is the in-battle narration.

Very next minute after this fight, you’ve got your narration, you’ve got Chara’s name in the battle zone, and your options, and the flavor text.

This was Chara’s awakening. This was the start of the narration. The start of the battle options, FIGHT, ACT, or MERCY, and Frisk’s partnership with them…whatever that goes on to entail.

…

GG Flowey, illuminati confirmed, go team, anyway I’m getting back to it.

Imagine Asriel dying, then waking up as Flowey with no knowledge of how much time has passed.

Imagine Flowey waking up to find his parents separated.

Imagine Flowey trying so hard to be happy with his father and love his father, and feeling nothing.

Imagine Flowey, in desperation, running away and searching all over the Underground to find his mother because surely she can help him because she can fix anything because she’s his mother and she has to do something and he misses her so much and he just wants to feel again

Imagine Flowey finally finding Toriel, who’s overjoyed to see her son again… and he can’t reciprocate her joy or love.

Imagine Flowey staying with Toriel, who takes care of him, but is strangely avoidant about his questions about the locked door in the hallway.

Imagine Flowey getting more and more suspicious until he finally figures out how to get into the room.

Imagine Flowey suddenly finding himself faced with toys that weren’t his, clothes that weren’t his, photos that aren’t of him.

Imagine Flowey looking over everything in the room and putting the pieces together.

Imagine Flowey, who was one moment a dying child and the next a flower, who woke up to find that his mother had tried to replace him with not just one, but six children.

Imagine Flowey, who cannot feel warmth, who cannot feel joy, who cannot feel love… but can feel the agony of being betrayed by his own mother.

Blog Index (4 theories ect.)

(Passive Chara Theory) "Chara is the narration" (Worn Dagger vs. Real Knife) “Chara has only 1 Lv from the start.” (Soul Inheritance Theory) "What if Frisk’s soul was Chara’s reincarnate?“ (Chara’s “True” Battle) “Chara vs. the power of Reset” (The Seven Magicians and Sealing the Monsters) “An Act of Mercy?” (What happens when Determined humans die covered in Dust?) “Zombies?” (The Seven Souls and Seven RPG Archetypes) “How you live, how you play” (Variables vs. Values) “Ball is Life” (Chara vs. Humanity) “I attempt to figure out Chara’s complex feelings” (Hang out with Papyrus) “Papyrus teaches us the importance of friendships” (Chara’s Vocab) “Chara is full of hot air and big words” (Crouching Narrator, Hidden Chara) “Chara’s literally a ghost writer” (Dreemurr Family Dynamic) “Goat Fam Chart” (Golden “Aster” Flowers) “possible species of Golden Flowers” (First person escapist) “Chara inside Frisk’s Soul?” (Grave Flower Theory) “again, what if Zombies?” (Chara/Alphys parallels) “I will free everyone mentality” (Chara say Popato) “Chara say Popato” (Soul Shattering) “a visual metaphor” (Narration for Frisk’s benefit) “nice you can see from this angle” (Things Change in the year 201X) “a New Home” (4 Reasons why Chara and Frisk aren’t Self Inserts) “4 or more"  (Human vs Monster Magic) "Utility vs Expression” (How Humans and Monsters cast magic) “power drawn in and around” (Why didn’t Chara Reset?) “a loss of determination” (Chara’s Eidolon) “created by your actions” (Grave Flowers expanded) "grave digging deeper” (Golden Flowers = Bidens ceruna) “the golden flower conspiracy” (Not the greatest) “when the greatest turns out not to be” (Chara’s Plan) “Flowey tells us why” (Buttercup Trivia) “Farmers used to feed it to cows for yellower butter” (Laughing to Hide The Pain) “the Migospel truth” (Asgore sees Chara in Frisk) “the humans are more alike than you think” (Goat Family Onomatology) “what’s in a name?” (Of Needles and Dark Dragon’s) “Mother 3 connections” (Chara did not Force Asriel) “He went along with it until the village” (To Check is Chara) “our monster expert” (Chara does not find the amalgamate amusing) “but it’s not funny” (He’ll do it for You) “Asgore trusts Chara” (Beware of Sans) “He’s out of this world” (Delta Theory) “the possible origin story of Undertale” (A Message in the Code) “I your humble servant, will follow you to the utmost” (Chara and the Fallen) “is there a connection?” (Chara, Frisk, and the Player) “our character lenses” (Chara in three answers) “a response to Chara discourse” (Chara’s flaws) “an analysis of what we know”

Reblogs (Chara Discourse) ((so many ppl wrote good stuff here)) (Chara is Hope) (Chara/Flowey parallel) (Chara/Undyne parallel) (Frisk and Chara’s capacity for both good and evil) (Chara and RPG morality) (Papyrus Appreciation posts) (Things Chara is beyond a Soulless Murderer) (New Home Narration Comparison) (Buttercup Poisoning) (Narrator Chara and “But it’s not funny” laughter) (Chara’s family picture) (Narrator Chara bullet points) (Chara Musings) (Chara didn’t force Frisk on a killing spree) (Hope in your eyes) (Most monsters aren’t trying to kill you) (Chara is not a demon) (Chara’s true nature is hidden to test the Player) (Undertale Timeline) (Don’t Goat Breaking my Heart) (“I see two lovers…”) (Chara can be SAVED) (You stole Frisk’s Soul: branch1; branch2) (A logical breakdown of how Chara is Narrator) (Flowey’s Speech to Chara) (Monster’s need Hope) (Chara = Narrator on all routes) (Fallen-down: Frisk, Chara, and Sans) (Sans and the Shopkeep) (Asriel’s growth and regression) (Chara loved to Draw) (“It’s the End” and other FF4 parallels) (Proof Chara is not a psychopath/sociopath) (Chara the Star, and the Void) (Bad Opinion Zone: one of you is a weeb) (Gerson and History Books) (You/the point of Undertale) (Asriel and Flowey, same person) (Dimensional Box Meta) (To remove LOVE, and another FF4 reference) (Chara is Evil is a Cop-out) (Kids don’t know about buttercup poisoning) (Goldn Flowers are Bidins) (Small Shock is Chara’s theme) (Save your friends masterpost) (Live A Live connection) (Chara and the Spear of Justice)

Updated again!

@tiftantos,​ oh yeah…I think I saw that post before going to bed. I can’t remember my exact thoughts but I do remember feeling a sense of foreboding like “This is going to stir the pot, I better get ready to make a post.”

And I’ve got work in a few hours so I better make this quick and concise…

First things First: Chara was with Frisk the whole time not just in the Genocide Route.

How do we know for sure?

Chara/the fallen human’s name is visible and present in all routes.  

(The above is a contrasting parallel to what Chara will say about themselves in their second kill-all run)

Frisk has flashbacks from Chara’s perspective when they first meet Asriel twice! Frist when Frisk falls from the walkway Undyne destroys in Waterfall Second when Frisk calls out their name in the Asriel Dreemurr battle, which results in this:

(Asriel is clearly shocked you called out to that name)

The two other noteworthy instances of the battle text only showing ellipses are during the Asgore and Toriel fights. All members of the Dreemurr family who Chara has a strong bond with. And that’s not mentioning all the times we will hear Asgore’s final words to Chara on their deathbed almost every time we get a “game over.”

Secondly Chara did not want to hurt the Dreemurrs

Everyone loves to tout the buttercup pie incident as proof of Chara testing out how poisonous the buttercups were for their “grand plan” of killing the humans though Asriel, or that it was an actual attempt on Asgore’s life to get his boss monster soul and make it look like an accident.

…No.

Thirdly Flowey/Asriel will mistake Frisk for Chara in BOTH the Pacifist and Murder runs:

Flowey did not mistake Frisk for Chara because Chara was skilled at killing people while they were alive (Because there is no evidence for that and Asriel stopped Chara from killing any humans)  In the Serial Murderer route Flowey mistakes Frisk for Chara because Frisk is acting like a soulless being like he is, killing everyone because they can.

Flowey thinks that Frisk is Chara come back from and transformed into an unfeeling killer like he did. Because if Chara did come back, why wouldn’t they end up like him?

Yet in the True Ending, Flowey/Asriel will still come to the conclusion that somehow Frisk is Chara not by their violent acts but from the friendships they made.

Not to mentions Flowey’s final speech does not make sense unless he realizes that Chara was with Frisk throughout Frisk’s pacifist journey.

He’s telling Chara not to worry? About what? About who?

All but two of those in that list are people that Chara has never meet. But Flowey uses their happiness as a plea to keep Chara, and by extension the Player who named them, from Resetting.

Chara is being asked to let Frisk go. Chara had a hold on Frisk through their journey. Chara did not force Frisk to do anything on this route. Chara was the Narration, the unobtrusive guide, the flavor text.

Chara provided the options for Frisk to take.

Whether to FIGHT or to ACT.