She in her madness prays for storms

so i do think it’s quite weird you would defend fans of the novel from labels like fetishizing fujo whilst saying you only engage w/ fandom wank on tumblr?? just bcuz you don’t engage w/sex scenes in that way doesn’t mean other fans don’t? like it’s nice to be all serious and deep about meta but there are in fact so many fans ruled by their Id... holy fuck, if I had a nickel for every demeaning depiction of omega wei ying(according to fans book!canon, lol) on twt and ao3 i would be sooo rich, and it’s disingenuous of you to treat them as those superior beings when they 👏🏻 just 👏🏻 wanna 👏🏻 write 👏🏻 men 👏🏻 fuck 👏🏻 I get the message this is not you, but you are hardly representative of the fandom (: this is not an ask about cql in any way and is entirely about how it is in fact possible to use a gay ship for gratification and can we stop pretending otherwise

Hi anon, 

The point of decrying people lumping everyone together for the crime of *checks notes* liking a specific book/liking works from a specific genre is because it is misguided and reductive as well as because it aims to create easy divisions between good/bad based solely on what content people engage with instead of, idk, their beliefs or how they conduct themselves (it’s also stupid because most of the people who leverage these criticisms engage in m/m fandom or with m/m content, just not those that could be classified as danmei-bl). It also aims to acknowledge, in the same breath, that these “criticisms” demonise the works themselves by insinuating that by virtue of being danmei-bl the only merits they could possibly have are as material to be used by caricatural homophobic monsters (aka the fabled “gross fetishising fujo”), instead of recognising that works within a same genre differ in quality and in tastefulness. 

You seem to not be someone who is a frequent reader of this blog, because if that were the case you would be aware that I’ve never said all people who engage with danmei-bl or m/m content act in ways that I personally like or approve of, or that they are never homophobic--in fact, I’ve literally said the opposite at times. Saying “don’t make people who consume danmei-bl content into caricatures to be demonised to feel better about your own own engagement with m/m content” does not mean condoning the actions of every person who consumes danmei-bl and engage in fandom spaces. I never saw myself as Urban II giving out fandom plenary indulgences, lmao. 

I find it also interesting that you suggest that I consider that book fans are “superior beings“ when at most I suggest that CQL-onlies and CQL-mains have exhausting and ridiculous things to say about the novel itself and fans of the novel generally. If a superior/inferior dichotomy is how you interact with the world, there’s not much I can do about that, but I cannot accept having my opinions being shoved into such reductive boxes. 

I’m also surprised that you seem to assign the sin of wanting to “see men fuck” on "fetishising fujos” (which, in this fandom, is a shorthand for book fans) when many CQL-onlies/CQL-mains produce extremely explicit content based on CQL-verse--especially considering your ask begins with your objection at my defending the practice of calling book fans “fetishisng fujos”. Why do you feel that this sin is one that is representative of the book novel fandom, specifically? I’m also confused by the fact that there being an aspect of gratification in shipping/fandom being an inherent red flag: are we really going to be modern-days Platos arguing that the best relationship is an erotically charged one between men that nonetheless never involves actual sexual contact, ie the o.g. platonic ideal?

I cannot speak of what is representative of the novel fandom, because fandom in 2021 is such a decentralised experience that it makes it difficult to get a sense of what kind of fandom engagement would count as “representative”. Perhaps you are right and people who share omega!WWX fanart really are the majority, the spokespersons for the fandom. What I can say however with certainty is that a lot of people in this fandom match my vibe (not the bitter and pretentious vibes, the ‘desire to engage with the work on a deeper level’ vibe). 

If there's nothing wrong with being penetrated, why do you have an issue with bottomji? Let him be penetrated.

or we could just let lwj be disinterested in penetration, as he is in canon, and not act as if there's something wrong with that?

American anon again. I do apologize if I came across salty/bitter as that was not my intention. I will admit that I did respond in a somewhat defensive manor and that was not the best take. I truly just wanted to know why there was a sort of animosity towards Westerns especially Americans who consume MDZS/Asian media in general. I understand justifiable reasons such as Americans self inserting, trying to Americanize Asian media, or taking things out of context, but some people I've come across don't want Westerns in the fandom at all and refuse to answer any questions you may have about MDZS simply because they are Westerns.

I never understood gatekeeping literature or media as everyone should be allowed to consume whatever media they want and be able to have civil conversations about it. It helps gain perspective outside of your own bubble and helps you become a more open-minded person. As someone who majors in literature and philosophy I've read works by all sorts of people from different cultures and countries and have had insightful conversations about those works. Many people have been more than welcoming in discussing the literature, but the MDZS fandom seems so opposite of that. It seems to be very "I'm right, you're wrong and your opinion is invalid. This not up for discussion." I personally have read your metas and agree with pretty much all of them, but if I tried to talk to someone else on why Wei Ying isn't oblivious or why I like the incense burner chapters it becomes "You've never read the official version so you're wrong by default" instead of a civil conversation. I understand I will always be an outsider in anything that isn't American and I'm not saying that I shouldn't be, but I don't get blatant disdain for people who consume things from a different culture. Nobody gets to choose their nationality or race so why hate someone for things they can't control when you have similar interests.

I'll be really honest, anon. I think you might be interpreting things people are saying in fandom in extremes that aren't meant that way and in the process ditching a lot of nuance or context--perhaps because you are not feeling this sense of acceptance in this fandom than you might have been expecting or are used to having. For instance, I don't think I've seen a clear-cut: "You've never read the official version so you're wrong by default". However I have seen people explain that not accessing the text through a translation means that it can change the meaning substantially, and that this should make us consider that any analysis based on close-reading the translation might produce interpretations that are not exactly supported in the original text. Moreover, I think a lot of people who might appear to you as "gate-keeping" are in actually just venting or expressing a personal choice to avoid interacting with westerner fans due to too many unpleasant experiences.

I'm not saying it is impossible for people to use concepts like racism and cultural imperialism, etc. in order to avoid any scrutiny or criticism, or use "it's a translation so it could be anything" as a trump card instead of engaging with other arguments. I do think there is a growing number of people especially on the internet who are hiding behind their identities or social justice concepts to avoid having to own up to shitty behaviour or flimsy arguments: we can see this with teenagers on tiktok roleplaying having serious disorders who cry "ableism" and "classism" as soon as people call them out on it. I mean there was a situation not too long ago where, having criticised the crying in the rain scene in woh for relying on clichés and run-of-the-mill techniques instead of truly emotional writing/film-making to incite a reaction in the viewer, I was accused of not being able to understand the depth of meaning in the scene because I was a western who probably knew nothing of east asian media and tropes--and, honestly, I remain unconvinced by this counter-argument to this day. We have to be open to criticisms and to re-examining our behaviours, but that does not mean either that we have to wholesale accept any criticism as valid because it features enough of the right buzzwords.

Nobody gets to choose their race or nationality, but we also do not control the systems of the world we live in, which is amongst others racist and imperalistic and western-centric. We can't just go to a universalising "we are all humans! why does it matter? should we all not come together" sentiments because it does not change the unequal power relations that structure each of our lives daily and affect us asymmetrically. Fandom engagement is not activism and will never be. But fandom is still part of the real world and the people who take part in it are real people with lived experiences, where our words and behaviours have impacts on others, and where the underlying ideologies we have end up coming to the fore.