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The Patron Saint of Toliver

@tigstripe / tigstripe.tumblr.com

34/gay. He/him. Fandom geek, aspiring writer/cartoonist. Arrowverse, Fate/, Star Wars, Mass Effect, Warehouse 13, RWBY, and others. Ao3 handle: TigStripe.
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tigstripe

Arrow

Season 1: Oliver killing folks Season 2: Oliver NOT killing folks, also there’s a team now Season 3: Oliver betrays Starling City, but not really Season 4: Magic exists! Also, fuck Guggenheim Season 5: Prometheus is just a better Oliver, but evil Season 6: MCU Civil War, but it makes even LESS sense Season 7A: Oliver’s in Jail Season 7B: Season 2 all over again, but with boobs Season 8: Crisis on Infinite Earths/Oliver’s daughter is important, we swear

The Flash

Season 1: My name is Barry Allen, and I’m the second-fastest man alive Season 2: My name is Barry Allen, and I’m still the second-fastest man alive Season 3: My name is Barry Allen, and I’m technically the fastest man alive  Season 4: The villain’s wife is way more interesting than he is Season 5: Worst. Villain. Ever. Season 6A: Whoops, Crisis! Season 6B: We spent our special effects budget on mirrors, so no speed today

Supergirl

Season 1: Superheroing is hard Season 2: Personal lives are hard Season 3: Emotions are hard Season 4: Being an alien is hard Season 5: Living in reality is hard

Legends of Tomorrow

Season 1: Traditional Arrowverse, but bad Season 2: Correcting our mistakes with meta, destiny-altering artifacts Season 3: We fucked up Season 4: We fucked up harder Season 5: We didn’t fuck up, but we still want to undo things

Black Lightning

Season 1: Traditional Arrowverse, but urban and good Season 2: Making Arrow look like a kid’s show Season 3: Markovia is to blame for everything, all the time

Batwoman

Season 1: Arrow, but gay (but still just as emotionally stunted)

Updated seasons:

Flash Season 7: I love you, you love me, we're a happy family...

Supergirl Season 6: Supergirl Without Supergirl

Legends of Tomorrow Season 6: Oops, All Aliens! Season 7: If we keep fucking up enough, it'll fix itself

Black Lightning Season 4: How not to mourn

Batwoman Season 2: How to Reinvent Your Show 101 Season 3: Gay, gaygaygaygay GAY. Also Batman villains

Superman and Lois Season 1: Superhero family drama done right Season 2: Superhero family drama done in reverse

Stargirl Season 1: Origin Stories, the series Season 2: When you have no idea what you're doing, but it works

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Preface: These are opinions. I have scenes or episodes in mind to support these statements, but I'm not digging them out. Just reflecting.

Arrow:

- Opinion: Arrow was a good show that had its ups and downs. It was a great initial show for the 'verse and I still wish it was still on.

- Hot Take: The production team's dedication to a relationship was its biggest sin. Not because Stephen and Emily didn't have chemistry, or that the characters didn't work together, but because it became the central cohesive factor of the show, and anyone who fell outside of it (see: Diggle or New Team Arrow) felt benched in comparison. Those characters were interesting. The show became "how do we have this revolve around Oliver and Felicity's relationship?" instead of "what stories can we tell about the team as a whole?"

Flash:

- Opinion: The Flash started strong, if a little "use my homework but make it different" from Arrow, but the show has declined in a way not seen in any other Arrowverse show.

- Hot Take: Stop using "family is good" as a trope. Family can be toxic, and more than once, the experienced superhero has been veto'd by his wife or his team because he should "put family first." This is bullshit, stop doing it, and let Barry be the leader of the team. Let him make decisions. If those decisions have consequences, have him deal with them. Every season feels worse than the last because Barry feels less and less in charge of his own show.

Supergirl:

- Opinion: Supergirl started super strong, but something went very wrong later on and the writers just never found their footing again.

- Hot Take: The writers' decision to keep Lena Luther around after season 3 was what trapped them into terrible plots. They had no idea what to do with her after she served her initial purpose. Same with James. Winn got out in the nick of time. I love Katie and I love Lena, but her storylines were garbage and the writers just kept trying to make her important, which never worked in a way that felt fulfilling. That dedicated focus ruined the chances of other characters getting more, much more needed screen time.

Black Lightning:

- Opinion: Black Lightning was undervalued by the CW and overlooked by Arrowverse fans across the board. It was a great show. I have very few notes.

- Hot Take: This isn't so much a "hot take" as it is just pointing out the obvious: this show failed because of marketing ignoring it. Every chance the CW got to promote its superhero shows, BL was nowhere to be found until its final season. It should have had the same amount of promotion as at least Legends of Tomorrow, if not more. This show was good. The network failed the show this time, not the other way around.

Legends of Tomorrow:

- Opinion: Legends has managed to reinvent itself just enough each season that it keeps the show fresh enough to be interesting, while maintaining that familiar feel from season to season. It's the only Arrowverse show that has maintained a level of consistency for more than two years at a time.

- Hot Take: Stop using romance as a reason to get rid of characters. Ray, Nate, and Mick all left the show over being involved with someone (although Mick's was a bit more complicated). Have characters leave for real reasons. Mona left to become the next ghostwriter for Rebecca Silver. That's cool. The show treats the team like some kind of worst case scenario for its characters - the moment something better comes along, they jump ship. And while we're at it, it's okay not to be in romantic relationships. The Waverider feels like a shack-up ship sometimes.

Batwoman:

- Opinion: Batwoman had a rough start but it has really molded itself into something new and fun.

- Hot Take: I don't really have any hot takes for Batwoman. It's getting more PR than BL ever did and it seems to be thriving. The show is strong for representation of all sorts. If I had a single "hot take," it'd be that I wish we could just shove season 1 under a bed and forget it happened.

Stargirl:

- Opinion: Underrated. Underappreciated. A true powerhouse of a show that probably won't live to see its true destiny because of superhero fatigue and the network doin weird shit.

- Hot Take: Their. Suits. Are. Hideous. Update them. There is zero rule anywhere saying the kids have to use their predecessors' gear. They look like jokes. One look at Beth in the Dr. Mid-Nite gear would scare off any potential new watchers. Stop carrying the show on Courtney's kickass outfit and give the others some decent looks.

(Withholding Superman and Lois stuff until I watch season 2. Haven't touched Naomi yet.)

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THERE HAVE BEEN 33 SEASONS SPREAD ACROSS THE VARIOUS SERIES OF THE ARROWVERSE

AND WE STILL HAVEN'T HAD A MAINSTREAM MLM RELATIONSHIP THAT LASTED FOR MORE THAN TWO EPISODES.

AND NO I DON'T COUNT JOHN AND DESMOND IN LEGENDS OF TOMORROW BECAUSE THAT RELATIONSHIP ENDED EITHER WITH DESMOND DYING OR THE RELATIONSHIP ENDING IN A BAD WAY

WHERE YOU AT, CW WRITERS, I'M COMIN FOR YOU

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debbie-f-m

I really want to know the geography of the US in the Arrowverse. Where are all the major cities? Midvale is a 3 hour drive from Metropolis, but we also know that Midvale is a reasonable driving distance from National City since Kara and Alex drive there in season 3 of Supergirl. This means Metropolis and National City can’t be on opposite sides of the country (I thought Metropolis was on the east coast while National City was on the west).

Also, do they even have states? We know Kansas exists at least because that’s where Smallville is, but the license plates for cars only list the city (Midvale, Metropolis, Gotham, etc.). Maybe their license plate system is just different in the Arrowverse.

Anyway I need a map pls and thanks

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tigstripe

Hoo boy. A can o' worms, this one is.

Thanks to Post-Crisis Flash, we have a physical map of several of the major cities. But that doesn't alleviate your concerns.

For instance, we "know" that Central City is located in Missouri, thanks to Barry's CSI badge when he lost his memory early on in the Flash. We also, thanks to Caitlin/Frost, "know" that CC has a population of over 14 million people (by comparison, New York City has just over 8 million, and we know Missouri has no metropolitan area even close to that). Also, the city is on a lake large enough to center a nuclear bomb without fallout to the city, because Missouri sure doesn't have any great lakes or oceans.

And we "know" it takes about 3 hours to get from Central City to Starling City, according to travel times listed in one of the crossover episodes. Whether that's Barry running for 3 hours, or a high-speed train we have yet to invent, I don't know, but that's absolutely absurd. The only way it's feasible in our world is via plane, and I believe that situation would have been pretty rough to get a commercial flight for - they'd have to go to ARGUS or steal a jet for that.

Meanwhile, in the most recent season of Black Lightning, Jefferson has Barry run him something from Star Labs in a matter of minutes, suggesting Barry can run from Missouri to Georgia in the span of a scene. Likewise, Oliver has called Barry on the phone and had the Flash appear in front of him while still on the phone, but at that point, Barry's top speed was barely twice the speed of sound.

I do suggest looking at Midvale as a real excursion from Central City, though - every episode we've had in Midvale with adult Kara/Alex has been meant for them to get away from things, so it wouldn't be that big of a stretch to just drive for a few days. Cross-country driving from coast to coast is a hassle, though, and time constraints in the plot probably shoot this down (they'd have to have been gone for like two weeks!).

TL;DR: Geography in the Arrowverse is janky as hell as a standard, let alone when you start throwing super speed into the mix. Just go with it, your head will hurt less.

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Arrow

Season 1: Oliver killing folks Season 2: Oliver NOT killing folks, also there’s a team now Season 3: Oliver betrays Starling City, but not really Season 4: Magic exists! Also, fuck Guggenheim Season 5: Prometheus is just a better Oliver, but evil Season 6: MCU Civil War, but it makes even LESS sense Season 7A: Oliver’s in Jail Season 7B: Season 2 all over again, but with boobs Season 8: Crisis on Infinite Earths/Oliver’s daughter is important, we swear

The Flash

Season 1: My name is Barry Allen, and I’m the second-fastest man alive Season 2: My name is Barry Allen, and I’m still the second-fastest man alive Season 3: My name is Barry Allen, and I’m technically the fastest man alive  Season 4: The villain’s wife is way more interesting than he is Season 5: Worst. Villain. Ever. Season 6A: Whoops, Crisis! Season 6B: We spent our special effects budget on mirrors, so no speed today

Supergirl

Season 1: Superheroing is hard Season 2: Personal lives are hard Season 3: Emotions are hard Season 4: Being an alien is hard Season 5: Living in reality is hard

Legends of Tomorrow

Season 1: Traditional Arrowverse, but bad Season 2: Correcting our mistakes with meta, destiny-altering artifacts Season 3: We fucked up Season 4: We fucked up harder Season 5: We didn’t fuck up, but we still want to undo things

Black Lightning

Season 1: Traditional Arrowverse, but urban and good Season 2: Making Arrow look like a kid’s show Season 3: Markovia is to blame for everything, all the time

Batwoman

Season 1: Arrow, but gay (but still just as emotionally stunted)

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Arrow, Flash, Batwoman and Legends fans: We can't wait for Crisis!
Supergirl and Black Lightning fans: wE cAn'T wAiT FoR cRiSiS! 🖕🖕🖕
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tigstripe

Okay, but why is this attitude so prevalent this year? What happened? Every show’s fandom seems to be at odds with one another for one reason or another. There is no longer a collective Arrowverse fandom, and I’m just confused as to why.

Legends fans just want Legends back, and are lashing out at the other shows about it. And frankly, they’ve been the most bombastic that I’ve seen in dissing the other shows.

Supergirl’s fandom is imploding due to the Kara/Lena plot. They’re safe to watch from afar, but will lash out when the subject is breached.

Arrow fans are in denial that this is it for them and the resentment towards the shows that are getting full seasons is palpable.

Batwoman only has fans on Youtube, let’s not kid ourselves.

Flash fans are split between the “this is it” mentality that Arrow’s got going on and “we’re the new flagship, bitches,” so they’re either mopey or demeaning.

I feel like Black Lightning fans are the most well-adjusted, because they’re feeling the crossover the least, as per their norm.

Finding a fan that actually enjoys more than one show has felt almost impossible this year. I want the camaraderie back.

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Oh, Twitter...

I was just informed on twitter that Black Lightning is intended for more mature audiences than the rest of the Arrowverse, specifically Arrow. They followed that statement up with the idea that Olicity, and its vocal fanbase on Tumblr, were the cause of Arrow shifting to a younger target audience.

I'm sorry, but this is simply asinine.

Please don't assume people are young because they enjoy the primary ship written into a show.

Please don't assume a show that tackles the hard truths of racism is necessarily more "mature" than shows that deal with long-term ramifications of loss, alcoholism and recovery/relapse, PTSD, and even god complexes.

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Anonymous asked:

I really want cw to have show m/m couple in arrowverse like they are doing for avalance. I don't think legends need more w/w couple when there is need of m/m couple visibility in arrowverse. I am lesbian but I feel bad for people who wants representation of bi or gay man in healthy relationships with a men.

Thank you for the comment. I definitely agree, and this is a whole can of worms, so I’m sorry if I rant a bit.

This is one of my main issues with the Arrowverse’s attempts at LGBTQ+ inclusion, and I’m glad it isn’t just me.

I love and appreciate all the canon w/w relationships the shows have put forward over the years, but I can’t help but cringe at the m/m “relationships.”

Let’s review them, shall we?1. Curtis went through a divorce with someone we barely knew and we never heard from him again. Police Pretty Boy was hardly anything more than a body on screen. Not good representation, although I applaud the…effort? I guess.2. Leo/Ray was sweet and positive, but a cameo.3. Constantine is destined to wind up alone. Poor Gary.4. They killed off Dez. Technically twice, then threw him off the show.5. Captain Singh’s is my favorite m/m relationship in the franchise, because it’s long-standing and brought up from time to time, even though the character is so infrequently used. I have wanted Singh to be more important for years.6. We don’t know anything about Future!Will’s boyfriend. And, given the framing of the flash forwards, there’s no time to explore that aspect of his life.

Did I miss anyone? I’m pretty sure that’s all the gay/bi/pan male interactions we’ve really had over 7 years of programming across 5 shows.

That’s 6 “relationships” over the course of 22 seasons of television, most of which are throwaway or completely forgettable.

This kind of representation is why I ship Steelatom as hard as I do - BroTPs are as close to positive m/m relationships I can get with any frequency, and (especially in 4B of Legends) Ray and Nate are a simple make out session away from being life partners. It’s an easy jump-to.

But why is it that all the m/m relationships get snubbed?

It’s pretty simple - these shows are written with a straight male’s gaze. Similar to how those lingering leg shots on females or the dominating camera angles during sex scenes tend to pop up, these shows refuse to “make people uncomfortable” by going with what more men enjoy - w/w relationships. We’re lucky Avalance isn’t a bedroom joke at this point. This affects how m/m relationships are viewed on the shows, because most men are “uncomfortable” watching two men kiss, or showing too much softness with one another.

Fuck that toxic masculinity bullshit. I cry. Every dude I know cries. We have feelings, and I’ve seen the hardest hard-edged motherfuckers turn into pudding around their loved ones. Give me Nate touching his forehead to Ray’s in apology after punching him under Neron’s influence. Give me Gary admitting to wanting Constantine to smash him good. Give me Captain Singh complaining about his husband’s strict dietary regimen.

I love the Arrowverse, and I love the steps they’ve taken for inclusivity in the genre, but for real, writers: Can I get some stable, gay romance up in this shit, please?

Sorry for the ramble. Thanks again for your comment!

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I couldn’t find the official listing with Programming Insider, so I capped the LoT writer’s twitter confirming the post.

We’re still on a downward trend per episode, but the good news is that we’re still doubling our viewership with streaming services. If you’re a fan of the show, don’t forget to spread the word about watching it live and streaming it on the CW website and using the CW App in America/DVRing it if you can’t!

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It’s Good, But...

I love Avalance. I loved Alex/Maggie. I even enjoyed Nyssa/Sara. I love Anissa and her shenanigans.

But can we please get some hot and heavy dudes this year? I wracked my brain hard last night and could only come up with Ray/Leo and Constantine’s quick, excited smooch with Gary as far as m/m make outs were concerned. 

I looooove the bisexual visibility the Arrowverse has. I love the straight-up lesbian representation we have from Anissa and Alex. I love that characters identify differently in fucking passing (I’m looking at you, future!William). But, despite having several gay and bisexual male characters throughout the shows, none of them are primary focuses. This means we’ve had all of two gay kisses, one of which could easily be considered an “in the moment” thing in the case of Constantine/Gary. There’s been plenty implied, but we all know that’s not the same as showing it on screen.

Please, Powers That Be, we just wanna be included in the smexy time, too.

Sincerely, The Gay Male Part of the Fandom

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