I am the Cat

The thing about House Targaryen is for all their claim to “specialness” they were a relatively low standing house in Valyria, they had smaller and fewer dragons, when they left the Dragonlords thought they were cowards, and even the whole “Daenys had a dream of the doom” is more myth then truth. Something the generations told themselves to justify their specialness. We have no accounts of Daenys’ dream, it’s just something the audience is told, when Aenar fleeing to Dragonstone out of cowardice is also likely. We know nothing of Aenar or of Daenys.

There is nothing to really prove this “specialness” they get sick from common illness, die from common diseases. They are not the only ones who can tame dragons as Nettles proved, they aren’t the only family around with Valyrian blood and their family was nothing of important in Valyria.

They cling to this “specialness” to this idea that they saw the Doom coming and fled. That they must be special, because why else are they still alive? Why else did a single dragon lord house survive? It couldn’t have been pure luck, random chance. It had to be because they are special.

I think Alysanne is an incredibly interesting character, I wouldn't call her sinister because that implies she is doing harm intentionally and I don't view her that way. Alysanne is both villain and victim, and I would classify her more as a tragic character then a sinister one.

I think Alysanne fits with the tragedy that is to be born a Targaryen woman. She is groomed from birth to be her brother's counter part, she is deemed "special" as a dragon rider, she watches as her brother-husband claims that their blood line is "exceptional" and then watches as her family becomes victims to the very common diseases and deaths that happen in Westeros. Her mother dies in childbirth, her son dies an infant, her daughter dies of plague, two of her daughters die in child birth, her son dies in battle, etc.

I think in terms of Baelon, she favored him. He was "hers" whereas Aemon was for Jaehaerys. She is the one who insisted upon a marriage between Baelon and Alyssa, despite Aemon being the son and heir (and thus being in need of a sister-wife counterpart). Baelon and Alyssa relationship mirrors that of Jaehaerys and Alysanne. You can read this meta on Alyssa, which I love because this fandom has really tried to act like Alyssa and Baelon are this "perfect" Targaryen couple but if you read the text closely you can see a bunch of issues that fans ignore.

In terms of Baelon post Alyssa, I don't think Alysanne's actions are sinister but rather her protecting herself. If she truly saw herself in Baelon and Alyssa then Baelon remarrying would be a threat to her own place in this Targaryen legacy. If Alyssa can be replaced, so could she if Jaehaerys needed. Again her marriage to Jaehaerys is what defines her, she was married as a child and groomed to be his wife.

Viserra is a threat in her mind, when really Viserra's actions scream of a child in need of help. First of all, the fact that Alysanne claims that Viserra wants to be Queen because she seems to want to marriage to her brother is very telling. Baelon was not heir at this time, and even if they knew Aemon would have no more children, it still doesn't seem likely that Baelon would have succeeded. Aemon as King could have easily declared his grandson his heir if he didn't want Rhaenys.

So how could Viserra know she would become Queen if she married Baelon? She would be a second wife to a second son. It's more likely that Viserra didn't want to be sent away from family, after watching what happened to her sisters Daella and Saera. So Alysanne's claim is more reflective upon herself, and her own desire to be Queen. And the idea of someone, even her own daughter, taking that from her is hurtful. So she chooses to send Viserra into a marriage where she would likely never seen her family again, to an aging lord (who likely had sons already). It's a punishment for attempting to take what Alysanne has been told is hers, her specialness.

It's just so fucking sad, and I don't necessarily think that Alysanne wanted to be a villain and in many ways she was a victim but she caused lasting trauma on her daughters. Similar to her sister Rhaena, who is both victim and villain, it's the lasting legacy of Targaryen women. They are the counterparts to their brother-husbands and thus also are complicit in their crimes. Alysanne really highlights this, Alysanne ends up alone on Dragonstone. After being denied the right to attempt to see her only living daughter, after being denied her granddaughters birth right, after losing her last daughter to a mysterious end. She is alone, and it seems she dies alone, for all the maesters do to push the idea that Jaehaerys had this great love for her he doesn't even seem to be there when she dies. Nor do we get any indication that he mourned her death. Alysanne is alone, abandoned in a sense. A haunting reminder that Targaryen women might be placed as a "counterpart" to their husband but can never escape or be allowed the same level of power.

So if this prophecy has been past down from King to heir only, how the fuck did Jaehaerys find out about it?

The Dornish watching as The Targaryen’s destroy themselves and their nuclear weapons dragons over whether or not a female can succeed her father

Reading Fire and Blood and I’m at The Dance, and everyone is so dumb. The Dance seems to have no strategy to it all.

Aegon is MIA

Aemond is just burning Riverlands

Daeron is just attacking

Rhaenyra and Daemon refusing to make any peace negotiations

Nobody has any strategy, and when it’s offered it’s flat out ignored.

When Criston Cole tells Aemond he should meet up with Daeron, Aemond just is like “nope gonna burn the Riverlands”

And when Corlys is like “okay we got Kings Landing, let’s make some peace negotiations” Daemon is like “let’s kill some of the oldest houses in Westeros and replace them with two bastards we found on Dragonstone”

I get it the Targaryens are inbred, but man they are all fucking dumb.

Also on my fire and blood reread can I just say I had more fun listening (I’m listening to the audible book) to Jaehaerys and the utter insanity that is his family and life then The Dance.

The book went from being about look at how one man fucked up his and everyone else’s life to one boring battle after another….

Taking away Alicent caring for Old King Jaehaerys was such a negative in terms of her character development.

We know Jaehaerys referred to her as Saera but I also headcanon he brought up other past memories. Of his dead brothers, of his sister and sister wife, of Aerea.

Imagine a young Alicent learning of all the horrors of House Targaryen through the words of a delusional dying man.

Imagine her watching as Jaehaerys tries desperately to save his brother Aegon or Viserys, or watch as he sees the shades of Maegor, Rhaena, and Aerea, or cry as he’s haunted of memories of Alysanne’s final years or of his mother’s death.

Imagine Alicent watching this dying King give her this history lesson, and then have her remember it as she becomes Viserys Queen.

Such a missed opportunity.

But also what happened to Jocelyn Baratheon, she’s the half sister of Jaehaerys and Alysanne and she just disappears from the narrative.

We barely get anything on her to begin with and it’s frustrating. Why didn’t she and Aemon have more children? Did they not get along? We get nothing on this relationship in the book, and we get details on every single one of Jaehaerys and Alysanne’s kids relationships (even knowing that Gael had a bastard child) but we know next to nothing about Aemon and his life with Jocelyn. The only thing we get is Jocelyn wept when he died and they had one child rather soon into their marriage.

This had to have been a narrative choice, why not show tell us about them? Like I said we know everything about the rest of the children’s relationships and marriages. It seems odd that this is left out.

@shivrcys

It is an oversimplification, and doesn’t get across how Targaryen succession was never cemented, but it seems like they were trying to do Salic Law similar to the monarchy in France (the French Monarchy did not allow women to rule or for any male children they had to be considered. But again it was never cemented into law, and neither was the king choosing his heir cemented either. It’s just a mess.

A female descended from the eldest male son was immediately over looked, not once this happened but three times all in Jaehaerys reign.

First you have Aerea, the daughter Aegon the Uncrowned, passed over in favor of Jaehaerys. She was declared Maegor’s heir and nobody once considered her to be Queen. They simply went with Jaehaerys.

Rhaenys is passed over twice, first when he father dies (Baelor is immediately declared heir) and second during the Great Council. Even when it’s discussed in Fire and Blood they have Rhaenys say “you would deny my son on his birthright” not you would deny me of my birthright. The talk is all about Laenor, not Rhaenys.

It’s no wonder Alicent and Otto assumed Viserys would name Aegon heir eventually, because even when they had a female heir presumptive, once a male came along her place was immediately dismissed.

You have to wonder why Book Viserys chose not to, Show Viserys was at least given a reason but no reason is given in the book for why Viserys still insists on Rhaenyra being the heir despite having 3 adult sons.

It’s incredibly odd.

I kind of hate how HOTD doesn’t go into how dismissed Rhaenys was in terms of Queenship.

She was never once considered for the throne, even at the Great Council she was immediately dismissed and the claim that was debated was her son, Laenor, vs her cousin Viserys. She was never once considered by either her grandfather or by The Great Council as even having a claim.

We never get this brought up once in HOTD, despite it being mentioned repeatedly in Fire and Blood that she was dismissed as an heir. Even her father said to her that he wanted a “grandson” likely because he would have placed that son as heir before his daughter.

It’s so frustrating that the show implies the Great Council was a choice between her and Viserys when it never was.

Rereading Fire and Blood really cements to me that HBO made a massive mistake by starting with the reign of Viserys I.

Not only do the reigns of Aenys, Maegor, and Jaehaerys set up the succession conflict, you also have some of the most dramatic stories and characters during those reigns. Imagine seeing Aerea, Queen Rhaena, or Saera’s story on screen, how they would set up the audiences up for The Dance.

Casual viewers of the show miss a lot of context simply by not knowing what happened during these reigns. Most likely don’t know all the complex history behind both Targaryen succession issues but how the women of House Targaryen were treated in general.

One thing about HOTD that does not make any sense how are the Velaryon’s black but not the Targaryens?

They had multiple marriages, we have two marriages prior to the conquest and then you have the marriage of Alyssa and Aenys.

So why aren’t they mixed? Like Jaehaerys was portrayed by a white man in the opening scene but his mother was a Velaryon?

Does that mean only Corlys mother was black (from the summer isles)? Or is this just a continuance issue? Or do we have an in canon explanation?

I will forever be upset that HOTD opens up in the middle of Fire and Blood, because as a reader it’s super important that you read about the reigns of Aenys, Maegor and Jaehaerys to understand why The Dance happened. The Dance is the consequence of those reigns, it did not appear out of no where.

The show opening up in the middle of the story is the dumbest thing. The Dance isn’t the first time a succession issue popped up and it actually wouldn’t be the last. It is just the most brutal.