Hi there!

Love your icon image <3

Hum... I get your question and there's much merit to it. I do think that the question and doubt around the "Velaryon" princes should make a lot of people not support Rhaenyra. After all, throughout the asoiaf books - all of them - we are continuously shown and told how much people despised bastards. Even in Fire and Blood and regarding the "Velaryon" princes this is highlighted for instance here:

This passage actually also highlights the issue the illegitimacy of her sons would pose for Rhaenyra herself, as she would be accused of High Treason and bear minimum would be liable for being disinherited completely but the consequences could go as far as death.

Nonetheless, as I and others have previously highlighted, even in the Green Council the illegitimacy of her sons is mentioned - by Alicent and Ser Incel Cole - but given very little attention. As for the lords of Westeros to the best of our knowledge, this was not a relevant factor.

I think it might be easily explained by a combination of factors. Most lords in Westeros had never seen the "Velaryon" princes and/or their purported father Ser Laenor + they knew that Rhaenyra had Arryn blood and that Rhaenys - Ser Laenor's mother - had Baratheon blood. Further, and most relevant of all, all three of them were dragonriders, which was taken as evidence - by the author of the book himself - that they were in fact legitimate. Of course that the logical thing is that they didn't need a father with Targaryen blood since Rhaenyra was a dragonrider and the youngest one of her house, but I think that's another evidence in the books of how much the role of women was overlooked, translation: If a child does X then it comes from their father 🤡

This all being said, I still think that this issue which was in fact Rhaenyra's biggest handicap should have played a much bigger role overall besides being used to portrait her as a wh0re and ruin her reputation, since it went well, well beyond that. However, it really wasn't.

Now we can play the "just because it's not said doesn't mean it didn't happen" game, but once again, we could also play that game with anything, including Aegon's 🥎🥎 We could say he could have anywhere from one to three and actually it would be impossible to disprove this statement. That is however, a game I don't enjoy playing because it's opening the door to just about everything, and then to the maesters, evil, evil, maesters changing history and lying.

So in sum, no, in my AU not having illegitimate children doesn't really change Rhaenyra's support all that much though her supporters are very, very pleased about who her heir is and the fact that his father was a Targaryen, which has highlighted by Lord Beesbury's arguments in Fire&Blood did matter - i.e., amount of Targaryen blood. It does change and a lot how people reading feel about her claim though, and over the years I had many people that consider themselves Neutral tell me that in the context of my fanfiction they are Team Black no questions asked.

In fact, strange as it is, I think this was an addition of George's not as much to the story but for his readers, to make them feel more ambiguous about the Dance.

Is this a big limitation in the way the Dance is written? Yes it is, and it does highlight how George is significantly stronger when he plays the gardener - main asoiaf books - instead of architect - Fire and Blood.

Cheers!

Hi there!

My answer like always concerns the asoiaf characters and canon only.

No idea who the sausage team was :) it's not like Team Black are feminists by any sense of the word except they supported a woman because it fitted within their interests (I might exclude Rhaenys from this to a degree), and I say this as someone who is Team Black.

Answering the ask regarding this very AU setting where all of Team Green was given a deep lobotomy and didn't usurp her , Rhaenyra herself says to Alicent that "Your sons might have had places of honour at my court if they had kept faith (...)" (Fire and Blood, pg. 480).

To this people can do one of two things. One, take Rhaenyra's words at face value and indeed believe that she would have done as she said to Alicent. Two, they can examine who she was, and her past behaviour, and make a judgment of how truthful she was being, which given how you interpret Rhaenyra might vary quite a bit.

For once, and given who she was, someone who in George's own words was quick to anger, slow to forgive, and who was never forgot a slight, and who had never been close to any of her half siblings, I don't think she was being completely truthful. I can believe she would have given them places of honour that fitted their station, it's in her court part I have doubts. But - here comes that but - I don't think such places would have given them all that power. Aegon and Helaena I am inclined to say she might allow to remain at court, might, or at least close enough that she could keep them under her eye. Daeron was in the Reach so likely there he could remain, it was enough honour, even for a Targaryen prince, and especially being a third son, to serve the Lord of Oldtown. Aemond to me would be the only one I don't quite trust her words, especially given what had happened between him and her son Luke. I think she would likely send him away, again, giving him something that was fitting of his station, but at her court I highly doubt it. Rhaenyra was not that good and definitely not that forgiving. Same for Alicent, likely she would be invited to return to Hightower, let's not forgot these two could barely stomach each other's presence for decades and on many occasions had to be kept apart by Viserys.

Daemon, however, I think he might be of a different mind. Nevertheless, that's not what the ask is about, and this is honestly an AU that is just beyond my imagination.

All the best.

Rhaenyra learning of Luke's Death

The grief of a mother who holds the place where her lost son once was as tears stream down her face and she weeps. The gentle embrace of a woman who was once her mother-by-law, who knows and shares her pain, and that will soon die for her cause with more bravery than any of their enemies have. The pain of her sons as they watch, children who know no peace will ever be possible and that their childhoods, like their brother, are dead.

This remains and will remain the best thing media has produced about the Dance and Rhaenyra's pain in this simple illustration, the rawness of it stands as proof that millions mean nothing when there's no passion nor respect for the source material or the characters. When you want to tell your story and not the story in the books.

A more accurate Rhaenyra than we will ever have and how sad this is.

You tell me how they reacted seeing this:

Leave a like on the original art by Ammmy :) and reblog with House Targaryen members reactions!