New interview with Adam Driver on the set of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker. He talks about Kylo’s journey, working with Ian McDiarmid, and more.

regarding the confidence in the dark side, I think he means he’s confident at the start of the movie.... and his conviction will be the conflict between Rey and himself, except that this time they have a connection and an emotional bagage, so it will be epic and dramatic, and VERY personal until finally Kylo Ren’s persona and the mask he hides behind break to allow him to be truly himself.... I am still one of those people who remain convinced that a happy ending, IS a happy ending without the death of ANY of his two sides of a protagonist... this is NOT a tragedy! Ben will live.

Also some of my students are practising a scene from ESB... they were looking for the “I AM your father” scene in the shooting script, and it was not there.... I remembered it had been hidden away, removed.... for the big reveal.... I feel like the “leaks” even if true in part... may only be aware of certain parts.. so .... I am still waiting to see! 

characters don’t have to be reincarnations to be important, but like… when Star Wars has always been the prime (literal textbook) example of the Hero’s Journey, and the Hero’s Journey has ‘miraculous conception’ and ‘death/descent’ and ‘resurrection/rebirth’ steps to it that line up in the story, and every single canon Star Wars visual media has featured/starred/analogued Anakin Skywalker in some way (including 60+ hours of tv shows, when they could have made the tv shows about anything/anyone/any time period) (even Rogue One still managed to include Anakin Skywalker) it makes me wonder how literal they’re being.

The sequel trilogy is already for sure a metaphorical continuation of Anakin’s story that was left off in ep 6, so the question is just how literal they’re going with the Joseph Campbell. It’s really not that different of a story, whether it’s literal or metaphorical. And I’m having fun thinking about the possibilities because theorizing is fun, and I don’t feel it’s necessary to wait to be 100% validated and canon before I speculate about something that interests me. I always said I’d be fine with whatever they decide to do.

Well I think it’s perfectly understandable that some fans are more or less enthusiastic about the possibility of reincarnation, but it should not matter, if you believe or want something, then do, it’s ok.  Speculations are the fun part of fandom, that is what had driven Reylos despite being ridiculed ...

We’re also very different as individuals, we read art and literature and movies in different ways, with different sensibilities and experiences.

There is never just one layer, one meaning or one absolute answer when it comes to the Arts. Discussing theories is why I enjoy this site, whether I agree with it or not... ;) 

First Reylo kiss

What does everyone think?  Will Ben and Rey have their first kiss in Episode IX in person or through the Force bond?  What are your theories and context of the kiss? Ready, go!

@toawaterfowl @thegreyreylo @skysilencer @knights-of-reylo-reborn @mygrandmathinksimsassy @enjoyallneednothing-blog @corseque @feebtastic @reylo @raven-maiden @the-apple-is-the-fruit @thewayofthesith @thefoureyedjedi @bastila-bae @reylosource @reylometahere @skyloreyn @sw-daydreamer @girlcalledbunny @clairen45 @reyloismyobsession @sleemo @dayzeechayn

Interesting question. I think which kiss it’ll be depends on when it happens. On the one hand, the first kiss might occur at the end of the movie, in act III. This will be a physical one, most likely in a moment of crisis before the movie climax or at the very end, post everything.

On the other hand, I think more likely, just like the last 2 movies, the writers will place their relationship’s turning point at the midpoint of the movie. So you have the bridal carry/ interrogation scence about halfway through TFA, same with the hand touch in TLJ and so a declaration of love and first kiss will make sense at ep IX’s mid point/middle of Act 2. This will consolidate their feelings for each other and raise the stakes going into the final fight when either of their lives is threatened. So it could be a Force bond one before they get reunited physically during the act 3 big battle. Or a physical kiss depending on the plot and what events have led up to that point.

Good question. Thank you so much @greyforceuser for asking and including me in the group discussion!

Very good remark from @feebtastic that the middle of the movie has become an important moment for the progression of the Reylo relationship, so, in all likelihood, something major is bound to happen at the midpoint of IX. So vii, they meet, viii they touch hands, ix they….

I would go with the declaration of love, personally. Somehow, I do not want them to be sharing their first kiss through a Force bond even though I enjoy it in fan fiction. I think their first kiss should be in person and like @feebtastic I would say the end. Rian Johnson’s point about the Force bond was to have them talk, not fight or make out, so talk they should.

But the hand scene also upped the ante considerably: it showed us that they could physically reach out for each other, and I think it is also very likely they will build on that on episode ix, otherwise they would not have included it.

Guys, here we are talking about the big love scene, and do you realize that a lot of people are wondering about fight scenes…I was absolutely appalled when I read on sites like Melty that they are expecting a fight scene between Rey and Kylo in a rematch from vii. It makes me wonder what movie they went to watch… At the same time, when I try to see things from their viewpoint, it makes sense. And I am not talking about the stupid sh*t (excuse my French) about Kylo becoming Vader 2.0.  There are people with lightsabers, they want lightsaber fights because they are cool, and yes the god of lightsaber fights must be appeased. There is indeed a to-do list for the guys in Star Wars to go by. And yes, final fight is in the charts if you base yourself on …like… what…every Star Wars movie ever….

But even if there was a lightsaber fight, this is how it plays out for me:

I see this happening for two reasons: Kylo will not kill Rey, nor Rey Kylo. It won’t happen, in order to respect the reverse Anidala. And the duel has to be aborted as in the final showdown between Luke and Vader (Luke threw away his saber after all), and to show Kylo has evolved since the end of TLJ. I know I digressed a bit from the original question, but it is still linked insofar as to me this duel has all the works to be the preliminary to a most romantic kiss.

So, to tie it all up… at the midpoint, they could be avowing their love but say there is no future for their relationship. There could be tears, hands touching cheeks, or a gentle touch of the foreheads. And they would meet again on the battlefield, start a fight, give up, and kiss passionately.

But with Star Wars blowing up everyone’s expectations with those two, and considering Kylo’s penitent state at the end of TLJ, the talk could happen fairly early in the first half of the movie; at the midpoint, the kiss, and not through a Force bond (and maybe more! with all the clues about babies and mating in viii, there should be some babymaking); so they fight side by the side at the end (must appease the gods of fighting, remember). No matter what, this is what I am absolutely confident about:

@clairen45 I’m similarly appalled by people claiming there should be a lightsaber fight between Rey and Kylo in ep. IX. I think these are just really recalcitrant people who refuse to see the romantic undertones in these 2 characters’ dynamic and how they work best when they work together, not against each other. I mean I do want my epic SW fight/battle but not between these 2. There’s no stake in a rematch.

In all honesty, I’m only saying that the first kiss (no matter how chaste and brief or desperate and doomed it is) should be about the midpoint because I don’t think we’ll survive the building tension beyond that. 😆 Neither will these two. The moment they admit any kind of deep intense feelings to each other they’ll be all over the other. Ideally it’ll be a really quiet intimate moment (like the hand touch scene) for the first kiss, but I fully expect a grand, ‘put the Scotland landscape in the background with a beautiful sunset behind them’ kiss at the end of the film.

(these will also sort of mirror Anidala’s scenes. Before the coliseum battle and the marriage scene in AotC)

2 years @feebtastic … 2 years… our heads will explode! I think my big issue with predicting stuff is that I don’t want to be disappointed. I am 100% sure about the romantic plot, but I don’t want to go in 2019 after 2 years of wild speculation and see them do their thing and go…mehhh… That was so much better in my head…

I call an interrupted almost-kiss, at a certain point.

Almost kiss is always good to build tension. Maybe they are using the Force Bond and someone (either Hux or Rey’s friends) enters and interrupts.

Thanks so much for including me in this discussion @greyforceuser! 

I love everyone’s observations so far. I agree with @feebtastic that they need something to build tension in the middle.  At the same time, I agree with @toawaterfowl and @ambitious-witch that an almost kiss could do the job of building tension, too. And like @clairen45, I want the first kiss to be in person.

With that said, here’s what I’m putting my money on: an almost (interrupted) kiss to build tension in the midpoint, and an actual, in-person kiss in the final scene of the movie. This echoes Anidala’s kisses in AOTC. Yes, Anidala shared a brief kiss in the middle, but the “real deal” was at the end of the movie. 

Here are some more detailed predictions for the first Reylo kiss.

I have a strong headcanon that the closing shot of Ep. 9 will be on the Millennium Falcon with Rey and Ben in the pilot and copilot seats. Like Han and Leia in ANH.

This is when I see them slowly leaning in for The Kiss.™  What will it be like, exactly?

What I can’t see happening: A super confident, aggressive, Han/Leia ESB-style kiss. Ben will still be earning Rey’s trust at the end of Ep. 9 (assuming he does something earlier to redeem himself), so he can’t just ravish Rey. Not to mention that they’ve characterized him as an as awkward space virgin, unlike his dad, Han “Mr. Smooth” Solo. 

What I can see happening: A kiss that starts off timid, gets more passionate, and then breaks off. There will be prolonged eye contact and closeness afterward, promising us that much more will happen off screen later. 😏 Looks familiar, no?

After the Reylo kiss is over, I see them slowly leaning back, looking back out at the galaxy, and bracing themselves to head off into the unknown together. 

I need it so badly!!!!!!!

You guys are all great , and I love the discussion and this fandom so much!

Great question @greyforceuser and great discussion so far - love your comments @toawaterfowl @ambitious-witch @clairen45 & @feebtastic ❤️ I totally agree with @raven-maiden - I really think the last shot of the movie will be Ben & Rey together, not basking in the recognition of the Resistance/Rebellion Ala Ep IV. Not celebrating with everyone Ala Ep VI. I think they will live the rest of their days out isolated from the world at large and polite society, as part of Ben’s atonement. (of course people will come visit them!) I think the biggest kiss will happen then. NGL I’m hoping for one mid-movie, even if it’s just brief, intense, passionate and interrupted. Kind of like Han & Leia’s right before Han gets frozen in Carbonite. ❤️❤️

reblogging for all the lovely discussion, already posted my thoughts in a separate post... damn.

I know this is an odd question, but does anyone know of any meta written as to why Kylo Ren shouldn’t be given a redemption arc? 

OMG I would DIE to read that meta, as in different perspective. I might even write some, if the time permits. For study reasons, mind you, just so we cover all the bases xD

I think the biggest issue is addressing exactly what people mean when they say “redemption arc”. For the record, I don’t see Kylo as a conventional villain and I’ve spilled more than enough digital ink ruminating on his possible motives elsewhere but I must admit some sense of worry and even skepticism whenever people mention Kylo getting a redemption arc. For example I see a lot of people refer to a redeemed Kylo as Ben, or promoted the idea that Kylo could or even should return to being Ben Solo once more, and I find that, for lack of a better term, objectionable. Kylo is a monster of his own making, but it was Ben Solo who set down the good intentions that paved the road to Kylo’s private hell. It was Ben Solo who sank into the comforting dark, and it’s Kylo Ren who’s been given the opportunity now to break free of its choking grasp. Underlying all of this, is the fundamental issue of Ben’s fall, the whys, hows and wherefores of his transformation into Kylo Ren. Until we can pinpoint with certainty even just some of his reasoning, the question of Kylo’s ‘redemption’ and what form exactly that will take is, to me at least, up in the air. As for reasons why he should not be given a redemption arc, I can pinpoint two. The first and most obvious, Kylo’s slaying of Han Solo. In that moment, in that precise chain of events, Kylo had a way out. It would not have been an easy way out but then redemption never is. Kylo would have been hated by the Resistance, most likely arrested, but he would have started down the path to a return to the light in the conventional sense of a redemption arc. Instead, Kylo cut down his father, violently rejecting this chance in exchange for power. Power, that going off the novelization at least, never arose within Kylo, who remained just as conflicted as before, if not even more so for the act. Secondly, and I’ll freely admit this is a personal preference thing so your mileage may vary, but Kylo is infinitely more interesting and relatable as a character who’s firmly on the dark side but in its shallows. There’s been more than a few comparisions made between Kylo and Rey and the yin/yang symbol, of the idea that light must exist in darkness and darkness in light, and in that sense Kylo represents that light in the dark, the balancing point between the two sides of the Force. To return to a previous point, we still don’t fully know or understand Kylo’s motives, but his rage, his acting on his anger and his general emotional state in TFA all point to an angry young man who was deeply repressed by himself and by others. It’s entirely possible, if not probable, that this sense of repression led to experimentation with the Dark Side, and a desire to be free to explore it outside of the Jedi. As I said, purely personal interpretation and if we stick to the facts Kylo’s fall remains a mystery, but it’s a definite possibility

@seankayos  Nicely put. 

I too, reject the dualism of Ben Solo/ Kylo Ren established in the particular branches of the fandom, not all, mind you. I’d say that “the monster of his own making” applies to him, but the problem I have with his character is comparison to Anakin Skywalker and his fall to the dark side.  I don’t think that should be applied, at all, while contemplating a possible redemption for Kylo. Yes, he killed Han Solo and it might be viewed as the deed which had condemned his to teeter on the edge of the dark side without the “proper redemptive arc”.

And this is often paralleled with Anakin’s killing of younglings, etc. BUT While Anakin carried out that one act of no turning back at the end of his journey, Kylo Ren did it right at the beginning. He did it too soon, so to speak. That’s why redemption arc is a given. There has to be a trajectory of action, not stagnation for the character, never static, always dynamic. If he had stayed a villain the entire trilogy, then that is a stasis.

IN epi VIII, he hits the nadir, the lowest point of his life, but I anticipate a cataclysmic shift in him, later on in IX. JJ had said that we are watching the evolution of not only a hero, but a villain.

Adam Driver deftly reiterated, that he “does not see himself as a villain, more like someone who believes what he does and follows as right, justified”.

If nothing else, I always find that his words bear the most truth in them, addressing any of his projects. He’s a no-nonsense method actor, very professional and I’d say he is very careful about what he lets out. SO, that said, I believe that we, as the audience will get that “OH, shit” moment, where it is suddenly revealed more about his backstory, and the death of Han Solo will not be one unjustifiable act.

Would I welcome not having Kylo Ren be redeemed? Yes, I would, if done well. After all, Kylo Ren is a title he bears with pride, he’s a master of the Knights of Ren, and if my previous analogy to the Thule society and Teutonic Knights applies,  I can see him rise in the ranks; but not of the FO, in his own ranks, as in feeling more loyal and affiliated to the Knights.  I can see him rise and grow philosophically, in the Force, in himself, while slowly severing the ties to Snoke and political ties to the FO. Here, I’d like to see the rivalry with Hux, perhaps a schism in the FO, the confrontation with Snoke and Skywalker and Rey. And Kylo would decide in one crucial moment to kill Snoke, turn against his master, but not to spare Skywalker senselessly, but to strengthen his own position.

And then in IX, let there be a final showdown between the master and the apprentice. Naturally, I’m pro reylo as well, so there had to be a pretty good arc for Rey, mirroring Kylo’s, mostly focused on self-realization and actualization of her own powers, as an individual entity, her own self, unbridled by her longing for the family and father figure. I have a hunch she will latch onto Luke and project as she did with Han Solo. AND voila, we’re back at killing Han and Kylo Ren’s possible redemption. If they knew what they were doing, they could have their ‘villain’ and the redemption in a completely new sense of word.

@loveyournightmare Good point about the comparison between Anakin and Kylo ringing a little false, for all Anakin’s faults his fall happened at the end of a long life of struggle, war and being constantly overlooked, whereas I don’t believe Ben’s life was anything like that. If anything I’d argue that Kylo’s fall most likely revolves around too much weight being put on his shoulders, of feeling like he could never live up to expectations set by an entire galaxy. And I totally agree with the idea that Kylo is following a path he considers to be justified, and that his relationship to Snoke and the First Order is going to be a major part of his growth going forward. After all, the fact he never once calls Snoke master, doesn’t even bow to him and the way Kylo turns his head away when Han points out Snoke is just using him all adds up to someone sure of their path, but not of their leader, at least in my view

@sithanddestroy Excellent points, and again to start off with the Anakin parallels, Vader was redeemed even after directly presiding over the execution of an entire innocent world, let alone the massacre of the Jedi Temple and other associated crimes, so in terms of Star Wars there is definitely no ‘point of no return’ for a villain, they just need to make a choice to do good. And its interesting that both you and loveyournightmare bring up Kylo’s connection to Snoke and the FO, because there is a third group in play here we know vanishingly little about right now: the Knights Of Ren themselves. If loveyournightmare is right (and personally I hope they are) we could see Kylo grow into being an anti-villainous counterpart to Luke, becoming the master of a Dark Side aligned Force wielding organisation. This way Kylo would leap straight over any question of ‘redemption’ and straight to accepting his position as a powerful Force user, mirroring Rey’s arc of accepting herself and her powers.

@seankayos​ you know i agree with the terminology point - same for the name thing. I don’t really like the dissociation between the two, it’s a perception thing, it feels like we’re talking about two different persons.

i’m not saying that can’t be a reading, but it’s definitely not mine. the redemption arc talk is starting to squick me a bit, ngl. i know it’s not the intent, at least i don’t think so, but the dissociation often made between Ben Solo and Kylo Ren is, in my view, reductive. presume a very clean break, a very clear demarcation between both aspects of the character - it’s like he can only be evil Kylo Ren or good redeemed Ben Solo. and - well, first, assuming we keep dissociating, we haven’t met Ben Solo. does he shine through the Kylo Ren facade? maybe. that’s a matter up to interpretation. and as you said

It was Ben Solo who sank into the comforting dark

in the absence of more data, i have ideas, speculations on what happened but certainly no definite hypothesis (one day i’ll make the point hypothesis vs theory, one day). like, maybe it’s because i’m behind, but has it been stated explicitly that Snoke was in his head? i only remember “watching him”, and we talked about that [already]

but i don’t see Ben Solo as separate from Kylo Ren at all, and personally, i dislike the idea of such a starch separation. in the context of a redemption arc, it feels like - an erasure. of a huge part of what makes the character so interesting to me.

@loveyournightmare

i so agree with that - Kylo Ren’s not evil for the fun of being evil. He’s a man with a mission, and he’ll take any means. He won’t like it, he’ll suffer, but he’ll do what he thinks is right - we don’t have his reasons, maybe, but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t any. does he need redemption if he thinks he does good? @sithanddestroy brings a very good point on what redemption is.

i can see the redemption, but i’ll hate it if it establishes a clear difference between Kylo Ren and Ben Solo. that’s not good character development to me. he has to learn and grow as his own person, not go back to what, frankly, seems like an idealized past version of him. much prefer him finding another way. via the knights is good.

i’ve made my point on choices and freedom somewhere else.

i think there are parallels with Vader, but as with all comparisons, it asks for caution. not much to add on that, too many good points, my head’s spinning.

i missed the main point

I feel there’s an argument to be made for the demarcation between Ben Solo and Kylo Ren, as its a distinction that Kylo makes himself when facing Han. He refers to Ben as “your son”, calls him weak and that’s why he destroyed him. There’s something very important there, specifically the parts about Ben as Han’s son, not as Ben Solo the individual. Adam Driver has said a few times now that Kylo is driven by his strained relationship with his parents, and I think is reflecting in Kylo’s own divide between Ben Solo and himself, with the implication being that Kylo sees who he is today as a creation of his own choices, compared to his “weak” former self who was defined by being the son of someone rather than a person in his own right. As for whether or not we’ve seen Ben shine through Kylo’s exterior, I’d argue yes, specifically in his moments of emotional stress. Not just his rage, but his sadness when confronting his father, and the sense of loss that paralyses him shortly after killing Han.

@zenbrainjam I’d honestly say Rey coming to an understanding of Kylo’s personal history is probably going to be the least fluffy aspect of their relationship going forward in the sequels, but you make a good point about how redemption can take many forms. I’m not entirely convinced by the theories on balance of the force to tell the truth (the Force just exists, it doesn’t want balance anymore than a leaf wants to fall) but I think you’re correct in that Rey and Kylo might strike a personal balance between each other, as you say the yin/yang parallels are strong with the both of them, and together they represent something of a fulcrum point. I especially like the excellent point that Kylo might only be redeemed in Rey’s eyes, and still be seen as a villain to the galaxy at large. If these two are going to evolve together, that would make a fantastic capstone for them in this trilogy, with both of them going back to their respective Force using orders with a greater understanding of each other that they can’t really explain to their friends and comrades around them

@seankayos you’re right he establishes a difference himself, and i agree with it all, but i’d argue it’s not what’s usually associated to the difference. i don’t think we know enough on Ben Solo to do much more than speculate. we can’t really characterize him without making assumptions, and we don’t know much of this demarcation either. my issue isn’t really with kylo ren vs ben solo, i’m still thinking on that, but with the redemption being a return to ben solo. i’m not sure i’m very clear.

the whole ‘i destroyed Ben Solo’ spiel is loaded - but even in the perspective of a redemption, why revive Ben Solo? especially if ‘Kylo sees who he is today as a creation of his own choices’, any redemptive arc would be due to choices, and those choices would be made by someone who doesn’t call himself Ben Solo. The person who will maybe engage on the path of redemption is Kylo Ren, not Ben Solo.

@zenbrainjam i like your view. a lot.

@millicentthecat well, i’m open to anything, including Epic Bad!Kylo, as long at it’s well done. i shall read your upcoming meta with great interest. @leicsfox lookit, it’s right up your alley

*wakes up from nap*

oh god, are people talking about redeeming good villains again, its like they want to bring out my dark side

to have an effective arc and have an effective star wars trilogy Kylo doesn’t need to be redeemed, if anything he needs to become more dark.

Look my own tow ticks on this. Kylo is obviously an extremely damaged and conflicted character, he is not the Darth Vader we were all expecting  (which is our own fault for not listening to the hints)…however this is obviously a ploy by the writers to build him into something more over the series. I find it very amusing most of the fandom assumes Kylo being built up means him switching back to the light…where as I find the obvious outcome is him becoming more powerful in the dark side of the force and replacing Snoke as Emperor/Supreme-Leader/Master of the dark side.

The one thing JJ promised us before the film came out was not only deep and interesting heroes, with good story arcs; but also villains who were deep and interesting with good arcs. So unless you are all telling me Hux and Phasma are these villains we were promised please stop trying to steal Kylo for the ‘good guys’ (and yes ‘good guys’ the jedi are not good at all)

you’re goddamn right I’m looking for pro-kylo ren deep and meaningful character development meta that is also pro-dark side meta, it’d make a change from everything else on here. In the nicest possible way to everyone already planning out how Rey will help heal Kylo and them together ridding the galaxy of the dark side…be prepared for disappointment, that isn’t what we were promised. 

now if you’ll excuse me I’m going to go back to spreading hatred and darkness in the real world.

laters

so brutal it burns. at the end of the day, i’ll admit i’m all for renperor. 

indeed. adding teh JJ. Abrams quote on the villain in-process.

@seankayos yeah, i don’t see him wanting to be called “Ben Solo” any time soon, and i have doubts on the strength of his allegiance to Snoke. I’m not going on a long tangent on space politics again, cuz i gotta do some work done today, but i do think his talk of ORDER ORDER ORDER ITS SO PRETTY and TEH RULZ OF LAW (okay, that’s a novelization thing, but still) is overlooked. he’s righteous and stuff. i think he has a goal. i think he killed han, as painful as it was, because he’s going to do his thing whatever the cost. 

and i hope it includes killing snoke. but what do i know.

[edit] damnit.

@loveyournightmare good good good. me like. i can definitely see that, weakness for renperor aside. the knights have to be here for something, and the acolytes are beyond mysterious.

the framework is still so vague, possibilities are many, variations endless.

^^That last phrase, yes! The last we see of Kylo in TFA is the man at his lowest. He’s been defeated by a younger and unexperienced Force user, he’s murdered his father and that has costed him more than he’d expected, he still feels the conflict that has plagued him for years (if not since ever). But there’s no way of telling what he’ll do next. That open ending means there’re choices waiting for Kylo to make, but we don’t know enough to tell which path he’ll choose. He could very well sink further into the Dark Side or he could go for redemption.

Now, as redemptions go, this guy won’t give us flowers and rainbows: Kylo will never be a Jedi, he will never be the embodiment of ‘goodness’ by SW standards. Why? Because of that conflict he feels. Just like he can’t get rid of ‘the pull to the Light’ he won’t be able to shed the darkness in him. He’s already tried… Ben Solo struggled with that darkness and lost the battle before. He has too much of both to be just one thing.

And that brings me to the need/common practise of separating Ben Solo from Kylo Ren.

We don’t know if ‘Kylo’ is a name he was given or if he chose it himself, but as @seankayos said, he makes the distinction himself between Ben and Kylo. However, I believe this to be a coping mechanism, the last try at denial he can attempt. The moment when he claims that Ben Solo is gone is highly charged, the emotions are bursting on his face. He hasn’t seen his father in what? Ten? Fifteen years? And suddenly, Han is there, in front of him and Kylo knows he’s at a point where his ‘weakness’, his light, is pouring from the seams. The fact that someone (a parent, no less) he resents that much finds him in such vulnerable moment can’t be easy for a person like Kylo, who’s taken a stroll thorugh hell and back to prove himself worthy but can’t get quite there yet. Kylo gets his reencounter while failling and he needs to compensate that. He says he’s destroyed Ben, but the way he says it (eyes welled up in tears, voice low and breaking) suggest otherwise. Truth is, whether Kylo admits it or not, Ben is still him. Not just a part, but him. Sure, he tries to draw boundaries, to cast his past away, he uses another name. But none of that will ever change the fact it was Ben who made the choices that’d lead him to that moment. If Kylo exists it’s because Ben allowed it and they’re both parts of the same person.

By going under a different name, he’s trying to lose that side of him he’s been taught to be a weakness (by Snoke, mot likely), when in fact, all he’s doing is making that conflict even bigger, pushing the different parts of his personality away from each other.

Redemption for Kylo, if it happens, won’t come in the form of forgiveness, much less from someone other than him (and in any case, I doubt he’d care for other people’s oppinions). Kylo will find his redemption in understanding himself, in accepting that he’s capable of both light and dark. In order to do that, he’ll need two things to happen: 1- Snoke’s influence has to go (obviously, it’s a bit tricky to find one’s self with a mind clouded with someone else’s thoughts and ideas) and 2- Kylo must have a guide (he’s too lost, too swayed and influenced to see anything clearly past his nose, and his ability to make decisions straight up sucks). With this I don’t mean he’ll need someone to hold his hand and pat his back, but he could use a template, a little ‘how to’ to clue him in and I believe he’ll find that in Rey (who hopefully, will be through the path of knowing and finding herself too, who knows).

Don’t get me wrong, full Dark!Kylo would be an awesome thing to see, he’s got the potential to get there (did I mention he makes awful choices?), that’s for sure; but I’m not so convinced that’s the endgame here. I don’t think Kylo is a character meant to linger in any of the extremes, no light nor dark, but something in between.

Reblogging for the meta-length discussion.