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#dean and john – @starsovermyhead on Tumblr
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oh no

@starsovermyhead / starsovermyhead.tumblr.com

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reblogged

You know it actually seems like the more Dean sees shades of John in Sam in season 1, the more scared he becomes that Sam will become John.

He's watching his kid brother deal with the same trauma that turned their father into someone driven by revenge who left his children's childhoods broken in his wake and never settled down and never found a way to heal and was constantly in pain and burned every bridge with every friend he ever made or just refused to connect with people in the first place because it wasn't part of the mission.

He sees the way Sam begins isolating himself from connections in the wake of Jess's death because it isn't part of the mission, the way he burns with rage, the way Dean himself becomes someone to shift blame onto when Sam is frustrated by a lack of leads, and Dean remembers their father slowly being consumed by revenge and he's scared. He doesn't address it directly, but he tries to get Sam to form connections with people and slow down and take a break for little while because he sees the path Sam is headed down and it worries him.

1.20-1.22 are about similar Sam and John are—how Dean is actually the odd man out—and it's quite explicitly Dean fighting to keep Sam from becoming John—becoming someone so blinded by revenge that he's willing to hurt his family and hurt himself and neglect his relationships with the living.

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swordofsun

#exactly#and the scariest part is that you can clearly see that there's a part of Sam that WANTS to become John#or rather. that wants Dean to defer to him the way (Sam THINKS) he deferred to John#because Sam does not actually understand John and Dean's dynamic or the abuse it was rooted in#all he sees is his brother as a natural follower constantly bending to John's will#(read: appeasement behavior to manage an abusive authority figure)#and he wants Dean to be on HIS side instead of on John's side for a change#and so there's an appeal in the idea of becoming John#of taking over the role of authority figure in Dean's life#and none of this is a conscious thought process on Sam's part it's just the weird shit swimming around in his subconscious#but on some deeper level he wants Dean to follow his orders for a change#and it's a whole Thing™ and a part of why the brothers clash so much especially early on#because Dean DOES know EXACTLY what his and John's dynamic is#and he is ABSOLUTELY NOT interested in replicating it with Sam in any way#and so you get this push/pull back and forth power struggle#of Dean not wanting to fall into the role of being SAM'S blunt little instrument and Sam not even consciously realizing#that on some level he wants that#and there's the added terror of Sam having several other of John's more self-destructive behaviors (the self-isolating most notably)#and Dean trying to figure out how to put the brakes on the whole thing before it goes right off a cliff#and Sam interpreting THAT as Dean still following John's orders because of John's LAST order#without actually having any of the context because Dean did a little too good a job of hiding how bad his childhood actually was#anyway they're a mess#spn

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So John:

  • used Ellen's husband Bill as bait for a demon, which resulted in Bill's death (2.06; 2.14);
  • possibly used his kids as bait for the shtriga, which resulted in Sam getting hurt and Dean blaming himself for his father's fuck up (1.18);
  • according to the deleted scene from 14.14, used Dean as bait for hunts "all the time" (bonus uncomfortable sexual undertones);
  • used Dean as bait to catch the vampire in 1.20 (bonus uncomfortable sexual undertones);
  • probably was the one who taught Dean the idea that "sometimes you gotta take one for the team" (phrase first used in the situation where Sam is expected to hook up with the girl to get info in 1.19).

Which makes me come to the conclusion that John knew one hunting trick and wasn't even good at using it. Bonus uncomfortable sexual undertones for Dean.

You get it.

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reblogged

I’m sure there’s meta on it already somewhere (likely on old LJ communities?) but I would be very interested in reading an analysis on why John, Sam, and Mary are all associated w/ yellow eyes at some point—John actually being possessed by Azazel in 1x22; Dean’s hallucinations of Sam in 4x06 and Sam’s hallucination in 4x21; Heaven!Mary talking to Sam & Dean in 5x16—while Dean never is.

Rewatched 6x01 and Gamble is very clear in this ep that Azazel = generational family trauma, and of Dean’s fear of that trauma / harm / horror happening again. Which both very much fits w/ how the Azazel/yellow eyes are used in Kripke’s era around Mary, John & Sam, and makes sense why Gamble then focused on Dean for S6.

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angelsdean

i really wonder how much “saving people, hunting things” was really “the family business” and not just dean’s personal motto. because from what we see from john and john’s journal too, he was primarily motivated by finding the thing that killed mary. like he wasn’t like other hunters just looking for cases, he was specifically tracking potential leads on the thing that killed mary and stumbling on other cases. sure he helped people along the way but he wasn’t motivated by that, that wasn’t the goal or the purpose of his mission. the “family business” was more like, “chasing leads, finding the thing that killed mary.” dean’s the one who broke away from john and started taking on his own cases. stuff that wasn’t related to the Avenge Mary Quest. dean’s the one that started saving people and hunting things. just ‘coz. dean’s the only one out of the three who wasn’t motivated by revenge. i think dean liked that aspect of the job, being able to help people. and disliked the part of the job that was actually the family business, which is, being dad’s soldier, putting the job before anything else, not getting to have a life outside of hunting. on his own, hunting was something he could do to help others. with john, hunting was the only thing he could do and was expected to do. nothing comes before this demon, dean etc etc 

“I mean, I figure our family’s so screwed to hell, maybe we can help some others. Makes things a little bit more bearable.” –dean in 1x02

also the phrase “saving people, hunting things. the family business.” yea dean literally makes that up on the spot in this scene as a way to get sam onboard. i’m convinced this is the first time that phrase has ever been spoken

also. crucially the family business dean describes is actually the campbell’s family business though dean doesn’t know that yet. dean you sure are mary’s son

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reblogged

This was a fantastic episode. Maybe the best one yet.

We learned so much about the core four. Even Millie. There was no Ada, which is disappointing. I hope to see all six of them in future episodes. No more of this Ada one episode, Millie the next.

This episode really drives a wedge between John and the other three.

He's suffering and he refuses to do anything to help himself and he won't let them help either.

Mary, Carlos, and Lata lean on each other at the end of this episode. Each of them having found a coping mechanism or two to help them deal with the darkness.

I loved seeing the differences between John and Carlos' Vietnam experiences. John volunteered, lied about his age, and went to fight. Carlos got in trouble and was given the choice between jail or service and chose service. He was a combat medic, his job was saving people. John won't talk about it, we see that he can in group, but he's so bitter about it he doesn't benefit from it. Carlos is open, he forgets about the case, and just talks. It helps him tremendously.

They're all trying to be there for John, but he'd rather be alone. This is nothing new. This is the John we've always known.

Seeing John interact with Neto I can't help but see Dean. But here's the thing, John's behavior is similar to Dean's behavior when he's at his worst/darkest times, that behavior is not Dean's normal.

When John bludgeons Neto repeatedly, it gives me strong MOC!Dean vibes. The vicious violence. It's part of who John is, it's only part of Dean when there is something else driving him.

John is Dean at his worst.

Dean at his best doesn't look anything like John. He builds a family, he loves completely, he protects everyone, he doesn't care what they can do for him, only that they're safe.

We didn't get much on the Akrida this episode, but I find it fascinating that gods are worried about them and looking for tools that will help in the fight against them.

Like, yes, Neto was a bad guy, but I wish we'd gotten more info on the Akrida from him before they killed him.

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deandelreys
“How dare he steal that from me? How DARE he steal my childhood from me?”

Jensen on Dean and his Dad.

“At an early age [Dean] was like, ‘This is way more interesting [than a normal life]. I’m on hunting  trips with my father. I’m not going to recess!’ …it wasn’t until later in life when he started doubting that and thinking, like, ‘How dare he steal that from me? How DARE he steal my childhood from me?’ And I think that’s probably a conversation that he will have one day with his father. Which… I’d love to film that scene. (x)

i loooove this. i love the way he acknowledges this. i love it so much!!!! AHgJKsg i love how aware jensen is of this and i love that he seems to be becoming more aware and more angry about it as the years go by (dean/jensen feelings ahhhh). 

i love it because it takes on the “if [a child] went along with it then it was obviously fine” argument that i hear so often from people both referring to the show and to abused children in real life. i love that he explains it so clearly, that although at a younger age dean thought it was pretty freakin cool to do the kinds of only-in-movies things that he was forced to do, it does not erase the very simple fact that john should never have involved his children in his quest for vengeance. it does not ignore the truth that dean was taken advantage of at a young age. it does not diminish the abusive reality of dean’s childhood.

jensen is very nuanced when talking about abuse and how trauma works. i remember saying he’d done some reading but i can’t remember in what context. 

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