OG Thread

Thread is not mine, I’m reposting this here for critical and educational purposes as it’s very important to amplify minorities’ critiques and voices.

Another thing I want to share is Viv blocked OP and this is his take on her Mimzy tweet.

Also even though OP didn't point it out in their thread, Rosie is an antisemitic stereotype too. She falls under the Jewish mother and blood libels stereotypes explained by another Jewish user. (Link to their thread)

Reading over Rosie's leaked character sheet and watching the show, you can see how she is those stereotypes. (TBH I don't think it can get anymore obvious Viv, at least knew she was coding Rosie as Jewish with the line,"Rosie has the strong presense of a confident energy of a Jewish mother.")

A little more information about the HH leaks + a rant about some things in these leaks.

SPOILER ALERT

WARNING: MENTIONS OF ATTEMPTED SA AND SUICIDAL ATTEMPTS

Rosie owns Alastor's soul and sings a song about how Alastor is her pet and how he is in her zoo.

Vox looks like they will try to perform a '''''correctional grape'''' on Alastor to prove that Alastor is not asexual. (PROVEN FAKE) .

Vox tries to use the media to damage the Hotel's reputation. At some point, he manages to place several sinners (including some members of the Hotel) under mental control.

Husk and Angel apparently kiss in episode 6.

Apparently Lucifer dies (AMEM) in episode 8. Lute probably kills him, but it's pure speculation, all I found was an image with Lucifer on the floor. If this is true, and Viv resurrects Lucifer, then the chances of Adam and the dead Exorcites returning become very likely. And this will further undermine the understanding of how death works in Hazbin Hotel.

ABOUT EP 2, SEASSON 2

Sir Pentious is simply insufferable. During Emily's song introducing him to Heaven, Pentious tries to create and link A SHITTING DEATH WEAPON WITH A SMILE ON HEAVEN'S FACE, but Emily, Abel and Peter stop him and destroy the weapon.

Sir Pentious's sin was not having reported Jack the Ripper. Although I would say that inaction in these cases does not constitute a valid reason to be sent to Hell for christianity, after seeing how some Mouthwashing fans treat Curly, then it's not crazy to think that there are people who believe that would be a reason to go. to Hell. But it's interesting to see how Viv didn't have the ability to take a real sinner and try to redeem him, it seems like she thinks the only way to empathize is by posing a '''sin''' that isn't a sin, without a challenge moral, without a conversation about what is good and evil, without something that makes people REALLY think about whether redemption should be for everyone or if it should be limited, etc.

Ah, but Hazbin Hotel is a bold series that criticizes religion and says that situations are nuanced, a series without ''good guys vs bad guys'', a series that is not moralistic..... Of course it is. 🙄

Lute nearly has a panic attack after the Tribunal, this is where she starts hallucinating Adam, he basically validates all her thoughts and encourages her to do what she has planned (similar to how she is talking to herself). Here it is interesting to see how Sera, Emily or the ''Voice of God'' don't even care about Lute's emotional instability. Emily and the Voice of God are described as ''good'' and ''compassionate'', but they only know how to look at Lute with disgust instead of, I don't know, TRYING TO LISTEN TO HER BEFORE SIMPLY DISCARDING HER. To have the slightest empathy because Lute's WHOLE world is crumbling and falling apart and the only person with whom she identified is DEAD. It's also funny how quickly Sera simply discards Adam, Lute and the Exorcisms now that she sees that she was ''''wrong'''', simply using them as scapegoats, without worrying about the consequences this left on the exorcisms. itself. Yes, the Exorcisms were Adam's idea, but it was SERA who allowed them for who knows how long, Sera doesn't seem to have tried to control the Exorcists' murderous impulses, she simply left everything in Adam's hands and only showed up to demand and complain when something went wrong.

Abel seems at least somewhat affected by Adam's death, despite appearing to be a pacifist type, he seems somewhat willing to go to Hell out of resentment for Adam's death. He admits that he is not the best person to say what to do about the situation in Hell, as he himself is kind of interested in getting revenge for Adam's death, so this bombshell is in Sera's hands.

Lute goes to Adam's office and Abel follows her, he tries to connect with her by talking about Adam and apologizing for the way he acted in Court, but Lute doesn't want to listen to him and throws him out.

Lute's song begins (BANGER SONG), where she swears revenge on Charlie.

St. Peter continues to be useless and from now on, I will consider that he is just a random person with that name and that he IS NOT the real St. Peter.

Emily is spoiling Sir Pentious, and when she sees him crying for his minions and his "friends", Emily creates new minions (basically the same as the ones he had in Hell, but these ones have wings). She continues to spoil Pentious, who continues to try to create weapons (but the environment in Heaven seems to not allow weapons like Sir Pentious's to work). Sir Pentious spends the entire episode crying saying that he wants to go back to Hell and see his "friends".

Sera decides to put all of Heaven under protection while she thinks about what to do. Emily opens a portal saying she will warn Charlie about recent events.

The Exorcists continue to be dehumanized to the extreme and treated as simple '''walking weapons'' and as scapegoats, with Lute being THE ONLY ONE who has, at least, a face.

Lilith is apparently in the Garden of Eden, she was sitting enjoying the breeze and eating fruit. Then she sees something on the phone, gets up and leaves.

Why is Angel's SA literally the only one taken "seriously" (if you can even call it that.) Every other one is either made into a joke or punchline (Pent or Mox) or completely ignored and they pretend it isn't happening (Blitz) Why is Angel's the only one that matters???

Oh. Oh holy hell

HEAVY WARNING FOR THE HAZBIN LEAKS. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT BE MAD AT ME IF YOU WILLINGLY CLICK ON THIS AND GET SPOILED.

Tw: Mentions of Poison/Angel Dust’s abuse, Aphobia (from Viv and Hazbin, not me. Frick Aphobes or any kind of queerphobe /srs)

Imagine trigger warning vivziepop lmao. But yeah this is entirety gross and the Aphobia is just yikes

I'm kinda pissed about Alastor… like he turned out to be a major disappointment for me for a number of reasons. The pilot had promise for him to be quirky and silly which happened to have a darker side to him; and he could have been a mannered but not snarky character- but instead we get another snark fest character like the rest of the cast. Seriously? How many characters does Viv have that aren't “witty” (oh that's generous) and sarcastic all the fucking time?

The first 2 episodes of Hazbin leaked in their entirety and ohhhhh my god they traced from the pilot

They did this on multiple occasions actually, tracing or outright copying shots from the pilot

I don't see a problem, Vivziepop can trace from her own pilot or scenes if she wants but I still think it's really fucking lazy for her team to do

Hey Viv quick question if HH is so 'female centered' why is your obviously favorite MALE oc getting an entire season that's key focused on his background when we could've easily gotten a season that could explore Charlie's royal background and what made her take on the mindset she has today

(no that dumb daddy/daughter episode doesn't count because she was a damn prop used to explain why her dad isn't some piece of shit who ghosts his daughter and only calls whenever he needs something)

Charlie Morningstar is probably one of the worst written characters I’ve seen in the series.

(This one’s gonna be a long one…)

Ok…. So I watched all six episodes and to be honest I’m pretty much pissed off by this character specifically. This might be more of a rant rather than a critique, so I do understand that not everything I say in this will end up being as constructive exactly but I genuinely need to get this off my chest, especially since she is a character I’ve specifically and recently been hyper fixating on before the show released…

(Side note: I realized the post was very long so, to have it be easier to read I added titles for each section! Hope this helps)

!!WARNING FOR SPOILERS FOR THE SERIES BTW!!

> Charlie lacks the qualities of being a main character.

Now besides the piss poor excuse of an introduction for her (and the rest of the cast) in the main series, I honestly question why exactly Charlie specifically is the “protagonist” in the first place (and I say protagonist with the biggest of quotes here, you’ll see why).

In the first episode of the series “overture”, we don’t really see much of her character, most of the time we’re shown screen time of Vicky (a nickname I made for v*ggie since I’m not gonna call her by her genitalia thank you) trying to make an ad for the hotel and even when we do get the screen time of her, she’s barely doing anything other than hearing viv’s self insert- I mean- Adam just go on and on about whatever he’s talking about.

And when Charlie does go on to explain her plan to redeem sinners she’s just interrupted and then stands there when they start singing hell is forever, she doesn’t “go off” like the hazbin Twitter says, she just stands there and then tries to say something only to get interrupted again and again and then gets pushed out of the meeting room before going back to the hotel to see it’s spread across in the news that the next extermination happens in 6 months.

Now although one might argue “Well didn’t Charlie at one point said in the show that giving orders is so mean?” Well yes but again, Charlie is literally the princess of pride ring, you would think that since her parents are literally rulers of pride, they would’ve probably teach her how to stand on her two feat, especially if your RUNNING A HOTEL. And the thing is, she has stood up and did so in episode 6 and the goddamn pilot (which is at this point is probably canon due to Charlie calling it the hazbin hotel instead of happy hotel), even going as far as to fight Katie Killjoy because she thought it was stupid.

Not only that but the episodes after overture, her screen time lessens until somewhat in 5 and 6. She doesn’t really appear that much in the between these episodes to the point where she feels like a supporting character rather than a protagonist. And when she does get screen time, she’s either forgettable at best and infuriating at worst.

> Charlie’s character is poorly written and just dumb.

In the episodes past overture, she’s literally rock solid stupid that I literally screamed in real life multiple times “you’re a fucking idiot” because of how frustrated I was from what she was doing, In episode 2 she literally trusted sir pentious to go to her hotel even though he almost destroyed her place and in episode 6 thought it was a hunky dory idea to let a person who literally exploded buildings to take charge of giving her employees a “good time”. Yes it could be played off as her being naive but if she’s that naive of a person then maybe she shouldn’t be a boss of a hotel to rehabilitate sinners.

Heck, in episode 4, Charlie gets pissed off and turns into her demon form because val literally started hurting Angel when he followed him into the room (and rightfully so) but when angel tells her to leave and drags her out of the studio, she’s just in her normal form and fucks off??? Reminder she’s literally the princess of hell! She could beat the shit out of val if she wants to, why did she just fucked off after angel had her leave?

“But Kat, what if something bad happens to angel if valentino dies?” Like what? If it was explained that if an overlord dies then the sinners that made a deal with them die too or something like that then yeah, that would make sense but we don’t know that whether or not that’s the case, if anything angel could be just fine after Valentino dies but we don’t know that.

And even when Charlie had the opportunity to go out there and apologize to him herself after he stormed out of the hotel, she and Vicky just send Husk to do it. And I have to ask, WHY? HUSK didn’t know what was happening to Angel earlier. HUSK wasn’t at the porn studio that Angel was working at. CHARLIE WAS….

“Well Kat, what if Charlie was scared about making things worse?” Fair enough, but again sending Husk is a stupid idea, I feel like it would’ve AT LEAST made sense if she sent Vicky out there. Because Charlie didn’t know if husk could fight (if you could even call it that, all he did was throw cards at people), BUT SHE KNEW VICKY COULD THOUGH. But nah we gotta do it for the ship right?

And then Charlie had the gull to be crying that angel forgave her after she fucked up, like shut the fuck up… it’s like if viv looked at a bunch of chars that had the optimistic care-free ‘ish personality and thought that meant making her as pathetic as a baby crying that they didn’t get a lollipop from their mommy.

Like I’m gonna be honest with you, it’s literally gone to a point where I think Orel Puppington (aka the 11 yo Christian kid who worships Jesus and gets harmful lessons from other Christians) makes a better Charlie Morningstar than the Charlie Morningstar herself!

And that thought is justified when he tried to go help people in Sinville, “Kat he ended up turning into a pimp at the end of the episode” yeah but AT LEAST HE TRIED TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING! Which leads me to another question….

> How is Charlie gonna redeem sinners exactly???

Like honestly, I’m serous with this one. How is Charlie gonna redeem these guys?

I ask this because in the series, she barely does ANYTHING to help these guys, she and the rest of the characters just sit around and then do an activity that is the equivalent of something you would do in kindergarten except it’s with ADULTS.

I don’t know about you but If your idea of helping people is doing just that and nothing else, then the only thing the people around you are gonna get is them being annoyed at first and eventually walking out with thinking your not helping them but rather just treating them like a baby who doesn’t know anything, and the only thing your gonna get personally is nothing because you did dick all.

Like other than that she pretty much just whines about sinners not going to her hotel and oh gee I wonder why, it’s not like your not doing anything to help these sinners not committing sins anymore, oh definitely not, your absolutely being helpful.

“Oh but Kat! Charlie was born in hell, how can she know how to help people? She’s not from the human world so, she wouldn’t exactly know how to help these people!” I would tell you to look at the world building for the series and it’s spin off but that’s a whole other can of beans that I don’t wanna cover today and this is already getting to long, so y’know what? We’ll go with that.

If Charlie didn’t know how to help people and was trying to figure out what she can do to help sinners get better, then why didn’t she just ask her employees for suggestions? Y’know, the other sinners who were from the human world and had experiences while they were alive and such?

Yeah, I get that not all of their advice would be exactly good or healthy (since they’re sinners who’ve done many bad things after all) BUT ITS AT LEAST SOMETHING FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

She literally does nothing, she just expects you to immediately get better after some improvisations or whatever other activities she does and once you’ve done one nice thing then boom you’re close to redemption.

> Conclusion.

Charlie Morningstar is (like I said in the beginning) probably one of the worst characters in the hazbin hotel series, she at best a stereotype of the “everything is sunshines and rainbows” character tropes and at worst is a pathetic excuse of a main character and is nothing but a rotten shell of her character from the pilot.

I would go on about how her design’s also bad but I’m sure millions of people have already said the same issues and I’ve already posted my redesign of her before the show dropped.

I might plan on posting a rewrite of her or maybe explain my problems with another character or episode but I don’t know.

But until then, I’ll see y’all later!

The way hazbin hotel fumbles it's premise is so weird to me. Like, a show about a hotel and recruiting new residents is the PERFECT OC showcase show. Bring in a new sinner every episode and start redeeming them. Have the B plots be about the main characters, have the A plots with new sinner residents either mirror or contrast the main cast. This premise is so much fun, it is baffling that it got abandoned so flippantly.

What's the point of having characters from different time periods when they behave and swear like they're edgy american teens?

I'm genuinely afraid of how Viv would handle Vox's character in the show going forward tbh. Pre series Vox was written to be a domestic abuse survivor who has the potential to get out of his toxic relationship and get redeemed as a character. (I mean, absolutely no shade or harm to StaticMoth fans, though). Now I'm worried Viv will throw that all away because Vox is now becoming a fan favorite character, and several people in and outside of any Hazbin Communities are starting to love him as a character. I have friends who outright hate Hazbin but love characters like Vox and Adam. Why I'm scared is because a lot of people are starting to hate Alastor for being a selfish asshole of a "hero/ morally grey character" who is a Gary Stu and gets special treatment from Viv. Said people and I are starting to hate Alastor and feel more sympathy and love towards Vox in exchange. Viv has a reputation for being salty over people not liking her favorite ocs, hence how she acted when people started liking Stella more than Stolas. Knowing that I fear that Viv will go full character assassination mode with Vox and write him to be outlandishly evil and irredeemable just to make Alastor look better and to get people to sympthasize with him more. I've already heard unsavory rumors about her making Vox into a rapist who tries to fix Al's asexuality by raping him and if that's true I feel genuinely upset and sickened by that. The idea of Viv villainizing a queer man who survived domestic abuse in the most extreme way possible just to spite people for not liking her shitty Gary Stu is beyond fucked. Especially considering that's there's more evidence of Alastor sexually harassing people in canon than there is of Vox. (Such as the scene of him touching Vaggie's butt without her consent.) That's why I'm genuinely worried for Vox. I hope it's not true but I sadly would not be surprised if it were.

The call is coming from inside the house

Oh she's definitely still salty she got called out for hiring a Proshipper cos she's one too & one thing about Proshippers, they defend their peoples.

Viv: It's not illegal lol!?

Also Viv: Fucking incest 😡😡, kill them Blitz.

Hey by the way- don't take the leaks as canon.

I know they look canon- but they're also unfinished and they could become deleted scenes because they don't make the final cut. So I'm not freaking out- just yet.

Spoiler Alert: Leaks have come out- they might change but heres my criticism that might have someone watching this tumblr to re-consider.

You're telling that Rosie- the Rosie; happens to be Alastor’s captor? That's not even a plot twist, that's a plot disappointment. Why reveal that so early in the season if you want people to give a fuck about the show? Scrap that entire scene while you can, because it’s going to leave people extremely disappointed and pissed off. Rosie should be a demon friend Alastor knows, not his captor.

Like damn- my theory about Roo being Al’s captor sounds significantly more interesting. Even Lilith being Al’s captor is more interesting than Rosie is.

Fucking scrap it!

Ngl, I thought it was gonna be Charlie's mum since she has that mysterious shit going on with her or even Roo because Roo looks pretty bizarre to me (....until Vivzie decides to completely dumb down her design, which is understandable because it might be hard to animate for the animators but ya know, I would love for her to hopefully keep the freaky tongue aspect of her).

Plus, there is literally this which is one of the reasons why people theorize that Roo is the one who owns Alastor's soul. smh