The Holy Spirit is not “magic” and you are not a “Christian witch”. You cannot follow Christ in one breath and deny him the next.

Using magic to worship God is not denying him lol try again

It is blasphemous to God, and He does not accept blasphemous worship. Might wanna touch up your Bible again.

Magic use outside of God is blasphemous

I’ll pray God gives you some reading comprehension

OP, please seek God's unconditional, reconciliatory Love and Compassion, that you may use it in your dealings with others. There is no Love or Wisdom in your post. You are in no position to judge others or declare people's walk with God "blasphemous" or otherwise. You may speak against those who actively harm others, and extend kindness to those wronged. But you are simply accusing others with judgement and disdain in your heart. You're generalizing an extremely diverse group you seem to know very little about beyond generalized parroted accusations, with no evidence of active harm and no victims to defend.

Literally this is just a "you're not valid because my interpretation of scripture says so!" post. Unkind, unnecessary, and in many eyes, untrue. You have done this unprovoked with nothing but self-righteousness on your tongue. I pray that you find God's Peace and Love, and reflect on this.

It ain't idolatry if you're working from and with God. You arent even looking at the original Hebrew and Greek. In many English translations, specific magical practices (eg necromancy, poisoncraft, etc) are simply compiled and reduced to very general terms like sorcery, magicians, witchcraft.

So it makes sense to a degree that you would interpret it to be entirely restrictive. But it doesn't give you the right to judge or claim authority over anyone else. OP, if you think you do, please brush up on Matt 7:1-5, James 5:9, John 8:7, James 4:12-12, and most of all Romans 2:1-2

Especially since you apparently are so educated on Christianity and the Bible, yet evidently refuse to even do basic comprehensive interpretation with multiple translations, or look at the original vocabulary and cultural and historical context for that which you so condemn.

If you read the passages you picked, not only are the translations inherently flawed and lacking in the original specificity of the text, they also reveal why certain practices are considered idolatry. And no, it's not just "the practice is inherently idolatrous".

For example, Saul died because instead of going to the Lord for guidance according to their sacred Covenant, he sought advice from a person who worked outside of and without God. In the general time and geographic regions of the Old and New Testament, the majority of magical systems were not divested from their respective religions/spiritual paradigms. Meaning if you practiced magic of surrounding cultures and nations, it was magic involving other Gods and religious beliefs. Hence idolatry.

Rachel, Jacob (Israel), Moses, the literal Levite priests of the original Temple, literally all of the disciples, and more, practiced divination and/or other magical practices with God's blessing. Including but not limited to, fertility magic, sympathetic magic, and ritual magic. After these things, they give proper credit and thanks to God for their blessings and/or information of God's Will. With this method, it is always portrayed as positive and not displeasing to God.

The times when specific people are shown in negative light with regards to divination and magic, it is when they have disregarded God and God's prophets in favor of outside guidance, and/or when their practices have made them ritually impure or have broken a moral commandment. (Yes, not all commandments are moral laws, many are purity laws, or just laws to separate Israel from other cultures and nations).

Maybe you can take this opportunity to read more deeply into Biblical history and culture for more context, as well as the original texts in their respective languages (altho none are actually original, since the original documents didn't survive, only copies of copies). It's very illuminating, and can take your spiritual relationship with God that much deeper.

Maybe you can also ask yourself if you always obey every law in the Bible? I suspect you dont make sure that none of your clothes are polyblends, or build guard rails on the roof of your residence, or cover your head whenever in church. Because you know that some laws are taken out of context or don't apply to modern Western society.

For such “words of wisdom”, one would’ve thought they read Romans 6 that talks about using sinfulness as an excuse to do witchcraft. For shame.

Romans 6: 1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 King James Version (KJV)

https://www.gotquestions.org/homosexuality-Bible.html

1 Corinthians 5:11-13; But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

Matthew 5:11 God blesses you when people mock you and persecute you and lie about you and say all sorts of evil things against you because you are my followers.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?
-1 Corinthians 6:2

He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord. -Proverbs 17:15

But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning.
-1 Timothy 5:20

For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people.
-1 Peter 2:15

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
-Ephesians 5:11

Leviticus 19:17; Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt.

Proverbs 3:11; My son, do not despise the LORD’S discipline and do not resent his rebuke, because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.

Proverbs 27:5-6; Better is open rebuke than hidden love. Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1:18-32

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

1) witchcraft does not require "denying" God in any way. It is a practice not a religion, altho it can be integrated into religious and spiritual practices. Similar to how you can have a job that involves God and/or God's Will, and you can have one that doesn't. In christian magic users' case, generally all power come from and through God, and results happen only through God's Will and aid. Quite similar to prayer, just with different external (physical) elements.

2) I'm really upset cuz I wrote an extremely thorough response explaining the pitfalls of poor translations (especially KJV) and exegesis, and I saved it to a draft but Tumblr ate it. It had specific focus on the context of Proverbs and the Epistles. But to summarize:

You proved with your own evidence that God loves us, since all of us Love God intensely. Jesus said the 2 most important commandments are "Love God" and "Love your neighbor", which we do very well. It seems you have a hard time with the last one. You claim to be acting out of love, but in Proverbs where it said to openly rebuke others it refers to "Friends", not "random strangers you have a clear yet confusing animosity towards".

You don't seem to be able to actually refute or even acknowledge the diverse evidence given beyond "it says so here in these out of context, poor translations". In fact it seems you didn't read any of it, or at least you didn't use your reading comprehension skills. Literally everything you cited wrt magic use refers to adopting other religion's practices, which explains why it's idolatry, or is poorly translated to much broader terms. It's like translating "don't eat raspberries" to "don't eat berries".

The Epistles are specific responses to specific new churches with specific problems during a specific time, namely keeping new converts separate from their previous dominant religious practices (Roman Polytheism, the dominant religion that most converted from) to help them establish the church and their own paths in the face of a familiar and majority religion. This hasnt been an issue in Western Christianity for centuries. If you think the content is universally applicable to modern society, that's just bad exegesis.

Proverbs is literally a collection of words of wisdom from various Jewish religious leaders. A written history of wisdom in ancient Israel. Much like most of the Old Testament is the written history of the people of Israel.

Unless you follow every moral and purity law in Leviticus and Deuteronomy your argument is hypocritical. The references to magic use in those books are specifically in context of prohibiting religious practices from neighboring nations (especially Egypt and Canaan - hence no child sacrifices to Molech, no sleeping with male temple prostitutes, no Baal, etc). Serious Biblical scholars don't even debate that, it's so well-known.

You have no reason to bring up Lev 18:22 and 20:13 but since you have, it's an excellent example of how translators are flawed humans. The word abomination is horribly mistranslated. The original Hebrew word is תֹּועֵבָה (toevah) which Hebrew scholars widely agree means "ritually unclean" in this context. Which is relevant since Western Christianity generally ignores OT laws on ritual cleanliness (eg not touching a woman on her period, not eating shellfish, etc).

The KJV is widely agreed by scholars to be one of the worst quality translations. Basically it sounds poetic, and that's it's best quality. It is from a more recent source document than others with noted mistakes, and has glaring mistranslations.

If you really think out of context, often poorly translated texts are more important than Jesus' own words and actions, well, that's pretty presumptuous. Never did he separate himself from sinners, in fact He ate and stayed with the "worst" of society. He hardly if ever condemned ppl, besides calling out religious and political authorities who had power over people. He most often welcomed sinners to join and follow Him.

Have some sources that might help you with understanding context and improving exegesis. They're great for Bible study:

How to Read the Bible For All It's Worth by Fee and Stuart

Risking Grace by Dave Jackson

http://phoenyxoftheashes.tumblr.com/post/111134370022/doesnt-the-bible-forbid-witchcraft-and-magic

http://www.sojourngsd.org/blog/2015/toevah3

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2008/06/have_you_committed_an_abominat.html

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/florida-jewish-journal/fl-xpm-2012-09-19-fl-jjps-warshal-0919-20120919-story.html

http://shma.com/2012/04/abomination-is-hate-speech/

I am now done with this, because if you read all this including the sources, understand it, and still decide you have the authority to condemn a bunch of strangers, there's no reasoning or critical thinking I can prompt you into, and I will pray for you in your hubris.

The Holy Spirit is not “magic” and you are not a “Christian witch”. You cannot follow Christ in one breath and deny him the next.

Using magic to worship God is not denying him lol try again

It is blasphemous to God, and He does not accept blasphemous worship. Might wanna touch up your Bible again.

Magic use outside of God is blasphemous

I’ll pray God gives you some reading comprehension

OP, please seek God's unconditional, reconciliatory Love and Compassion, that you may use it in your dealings with others. There is no Love or Wisdom in your post. You are in no position to judge others or declare people's walk with God "blasphemous" or otherwise. You may speak against those who actively harm others, and extend kindness to those wronged. But you are simply accusing others with judgement and disdain in your heart. You're generalizing an extremely diverse group you seem to know very little about beyond generalized parroted accusations, with no evidence of active harm and no victims to defend.

Literally this is just a "you're not valid because my interpretation of scripture says so!" post. Unkind, unnecessary, and in many eyes, untrue. You have done this unprovoked with nothing but self-righteousness on your tongue. I pray that you find God's Peace and Love, and reflect on this.

It ain't idolatry if you're working from and with God. You arent even looking at the original Hebrew and Greek. In many English translations, specific magical practices (eg necromancy, poisoncraft, etc) are simply compiled and reduced to very general terms like sorcery, magicians, witchcraft.

So it makes sense to a degree that you would interpret it to be entirely restrictive. But it doesn't give you the right to judge or claim authority over anyone else. OP, if you think you do, please brush up on Matt 7:1-5, James 5:9, John 8:7, James 4:12-12, and most of all Romans 2:1-2

Especially since you apparently are so educated on Christianity and the Bible, yet evidently refuse to even do basic comprehensive interpretation with multiple translations, or look at the original vocabulary and cultural and historical context for that which you so condemn.

If you read the passages you picked, not only are the translations inherently flawed and lacking in the original specificity of the text, they also reveal why certain practices are considered idolatry. And no, it's not just "the practice is inherently idolatrous".

For example, Saul died because instead of going to the Lord for guidance according to their sacred Covenant, he sought advice from a person who worked outside of and without God. In the general time and geographic regions of the Old and New Testament, the majority of magical systems were not divested from their respective religions/spiritual paradigms. Meaning if you practiced magic of surrounding cultures and nations, it was magic involving other Gods and religious beliefs. Hence idolatry.

Rachel, Jacob (Israel), Moses, the literal Levite priests of the original Temple, literally all of the disciples, and more, practiced divination and/or other magical practices with God's blessing. Including but not limited to, fertility magic, sympathetic magic, and ritual magic. After these things, they give proper credit and thanks to God for their blessings and/or information of God's Will. With this method, it is always portrayed as positive and not displeasing to God.

The times when specific people are shown in negative light with regards to divination and magic, it is when they have disregarded God and God's prophets in favor of outside guidance, and/or when their practices have made them ritually impure or have broken a moral commandment. (Yes, not all commandments are moral laws, many are purity laws, or just laws to separate Israel from other cultures and nations).

Maybe you can take this opportunity to read more deeply into Biblical history and culture for more context, as well as the original texts in their respective languages (altho none are actually original, since the original documents didn't survive, only copies of copies). It's very illuminating, and can take your spiritual relationship with God that much deeper.

Maybe you can also ask yourself if you always obey every law in the Bible? I suspect you dont make sure that none of your clothes are polyblends, or build guard rails on the roof of your residence, or cover your head whenever in church. Because you know that some laws are taken out of context or don't apply to modern Western society.

Need some advice

So im debating whether or not i should delve deeper into the pagan/christian wiccan world, but growing up a lutheran and being taught that any of that is ‘the devil’ or is bad in general has put a bad taste in my mouth. I need to get more information for sure, but how do i combat this feeling of hesitation? Should i listen to it?

I say you should pray on it. Personally I have found magic and metawork has brought me closer to God, but that is not the case for everyone. Different people are meant to take different paths. For example, my path is in astral travel to other realms, energy work, and is largely not physical. I know others who focus on plant magic, kitchen magic, and matters of the physical home. And of course some people don't do magic at all. I think your best bet moving forward is earnest prayer to discern God's will in this, and what you want for yourself as well.

You can do research and think about Why certain things appeal to you. For example is it to gain personal power? To become more spiritual? To fix a specific situation or protect yourself or others? None of these are inherently good/bad reasons, but understanding your own interest may play a role in what you decide to do.

Likewise why are you hesitating? Is it due to anxiety or preconceptions? Is it due to a gut feeling that something will go wrong? The answers to these can also help guide you. Your intuition is a useful and powerful tool, so listen to it. But it is different from simple anxiety or the preconceptions you have been taught. Pray for discernment between the two. Also remember that you can choose a path that follows the Commandments (including Old Testament rules pertaining to what kind of magic/uses for magic arent allowed - there are some posts around dissecting those passages and their specific meanings in contrast to the very broad terms that many official English translations settled on).

I will say that not all wiccans are witches and not all witches are wiccan. Being a witch simply means that you use things in the physical world to influence things in the spiritual and energetic aspects of reality. Wicca is simply a specific religion that often incorporates witchcraft. You can be a witch and follow any religion or none at all.

What I find amazing in this post by @jude125 is how easily they start trying to say that Christian witchcraft is bad and yet by the end show they have no clue what Christian witchcraft actually is.

Exhibit A: “it denies the claims and teachings of Jesus who said he alone is the way the truth and the life”

Rebuttal: Christian witchcraft does no such thing. In fact I would say more Christian witches follow Jesus teaching better than slot of your run of the mill Christians. Our magic is given to us by Christ. Just as He would answer a persons prayers He also answers our spells. A main thing that I hold very inmportanr is the Ten Commandments and one that says you should have no other Gods before me. Thus making it where He alone is worshipped on high in the craft.

Exhibit B: the entire last image puts forth the idea that we are Wiccan.

Rebuttal: Wicca is its own religion. It also uses witchcraft as a way to worship. One can be a Wiccan Witch and one can be a Christian Witch. That does not mean that all witches are Wiccan. Wicca is to their witchcraft as Christianity is to ours.

Exhibit C: Satan worshippers are evil and want to harm people.

Rebuttal: I’m sure their are some that are just like their are evil people who want to cause harm in every religion. Their are many branches of Satanism but they tend to differentiate themselves between people who worship Lucifer, people who worship the adversary named Satan, people who worship baphomet and people who choose to see the deity in themselves stop lumping religions together.

Also "It is the view of the Bible that 'Christian witchcraft' is a blatant oxymoron..." 1) The Bible is a collection of many books by many people in many genres (worship songs, letters, accounts of individuals, records of Jewish history, etc), so there is no one "view" that it presents even tho it is all of God. 2) That is an interpretation based on English translations made by flawed humans. 3) Many Jewish and Christian figures in the Bible use methods of "witchcraft" (divination, fertility magic, sympathetic magic, faith healing, etc) in honor of God and God answered their work. 4) Christian folk and ceremonial magic has existed for the entirety of Christian history, it's nothing new.

Doesn't the bible forbid witchcraft and magic?

Hello everyone!

In this post I’m going to address the bible and what it says about magic and witchcraft, what is allowed and what isn’t.

Keep reading

Christian witches!! Do you have any crystals that correspond with the Trinity? I can’t find any info on it at all. I feel like the Holy Spirit would be clear quartz but what of Christ and the Creator?

I’ve always like Garnet because it makes me think of the Blood of Christ..

ALSO

Revelation 21:11 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.

Revelation 21:19-21  19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

Talking about the stones that will be the foundation and adorn New Jerusalem. 

Current Recommended Reading: Christian Witch edition

(Note: This applies to Christian, Catholic, and Christopagan witches, too!)

• The Path of a Christian Witch by Adelina St. Clair

• Water, Wind, Earth, and Fire: The Christian Practice of Praying with the Elements by Christine Valters Paintner

• The Jesus Mysteries by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy

• Nag Hammadi texts (I’ve been reading them on sacred-texts.com)

• Dead Sea Scrolls (again, some can be found on sacred-texts.com)

• The Secret Gospel of Mary Magdalene

I intend to come back and continue to update this list as I read more about Christian witchcraft and mysticism, so this list will hopefully expand!

Feel free to reblog with suggestions!

The Bible and Witchcraft: Part Four

Last time we talked about Joseph and his use of oneiromancy. This time we continue with talking about Joseph and another type of divination. Strangely, this is the one occurrence of witchcraft in the Bible I have seen anti-witchcraft preachers and bloggers actually flip out over and try and explain away. I’m not sure why the earlier mentions from Parts 1-3 don’t get the same treatment.

Keep reading

The Bible & Witchcraft: Part 3

We have talked about Rachel and Jacob and their uses of fertility magic. This time we move to their son, Joseph and his use of oneiromancy.

Keep reading

The Bible & Witchcraft: Part 2

So, yesterday we touched on Genesis 30 and Rachel’s use of mandrakes to conceive in classical fertility magic. Now we touch on her father’s use of divination and her husband using more fertility magic, this time on animals.

Keep reading

The Bible & Witchcraft: Part 1

 Originally, I was going to do one post with all the verses about magic and witchcraft, but it got way to long, so I decided to do it one at a time, in more easily digested pieces, for people who are worried about the incompatibility of their practice and Biblical tenets. I will be going over what is forbidden and what is not. For the “Old Testament,” I will be providing both the Tanakh and Christian Bible. This will also be cut so non-Christian followers don’t have to scroll past a bunch of Bible on their dashes.

Keep reading

Is there any academic literature about modern Christian witchcraft?

I tried searching on ATLA but all I got was stuff about Christian interaction with witchcraft which isn’t what I want.

I don’t have an answer to this question, but I feel weird in my gut about the new blossoming of Xn witchcraft.  Not because The Theologies Are At War and Witches Should Be Burned or whatever, but because I haven’t seen ANY critical analysis of power differential here.  It feels a LOT like the wave of Christians who suddenly wanted to start having Shabbat dinners and celebrating Sukkot and just…adopting a bunch of contemporary Jewish practices, without ever asking, “hey, since we killed a bunch of you, should I do this?”

do you mean like, self-identified Christian witches or practices in Christianity that have been/could be considered similar to witchcraft (e.g. the evil eye in orthodox christianity)? cos there’s prolly more on the latter than the former

The former

The thing about Christian witchcraft is that there's no cohesive group or denomination (as far as I've seen at least) so it's very hard to actually define or document. It's a very individual practice. There are some Tumblr users who are Christian witches who are actually religious study majors or going to seminary school. They may be of use to you, as they tend to have a more thought out and analytical understanding of their own practice.

As for power differentials, while there's not a lot of academic-level critical analysis, there is a lot of intracommunity discourse on the subject among Christians and neopagans, alike. Some neopagans (particularly, I've noticed, among neo-Wiccans tho obviously that is a generalization) do resent Christians engaging in witchcraft. However others view witchcraft as a practice and not inherently religious in nature, unlike Shabbat and Sukkot. Most cite the widespread nature of witchcraft and related practices across cultures regardless of religion. There are also atheist witchcraft users. However, that is not to say that cultural/religious appropriation is encouraged (tho by some it is, unfortunately).

There is an emphasis in the general witchcraft community, outside of neopagan reconstructionists, Traditional (Western European) craft, and Wiccan/neo-Wiccans, on being able to create an individual path/practice. Obviously many paths are influenced by others and more traditional paths, especially in the beginning, but many evolve their practice to be very personal, based on various theories of magic (chaos theory, correspondence theory, energy theory, etc), and their own understanding of cosmology. In this way, the broader community tends to separate religion from craft. There is a recognition that people of all religions and beliefs can and do engage in witchcraft, and that their craft does not necessarily mix with their religion.

On another hand, there are Christians who engage in inherited/folk witchcraft that is specific to their region. Some practitioners of Appalachian magic, brujeria (which are generally identified as magic by the practitioners), etc, come to mind. Tho @honeyandwormwood definitely makes a good point about needing to be respectful and very conscious about not appropriating or coming from a place of "ooh I discovered this new thing let me dabble and appropriate it cuz it has no repercussions for me if I do"