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Fat stuff

@sitronsangbody

Body, food and fatness takes
Main: sitronsang
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I decided to make a pinned post with stuff about my positions and my perspective that might be relevant - first of all: I'm not a nutritionist, scientist or anything like that. What I post here is based in facts and scientific research by those who are, but I am not an expert, just an activist who's been delving into this topic for a while.

- I don’t care for the words “obese” or “overweight” because they're laden with stigma and imply deviance from the correct way. I use “fat” because it’s a neutral descriptor of a normal way to be.

- I haven’t weighed myself in years now but I believe I fall into the category of small fat.

- My preferred angle of fat activism is fat liberation, but I don’t really care what movements or words people identify with as long as they support fat people socially and politically.

- I’m in favor of cultivating online (and offline) spaces that allow for discussion, learning and self-reflection. If the discourse is all black and white thinking, dragging and name calling, I’m out of there, it’s not worth it.

- I reserve the right to occasionally change my mind about things when I learn something new.

- If you’re trying to lose weight that’s fine, but I don’t want to hear about it.

- This blog very much supports trans people (I wish I didn’t have to specify this), terfery will get you blocked on sight.

- Feedism is not my cup of tea personally, but you guys are totally welcome on here and more power to ya ❤️

- I'm a white scandinavian. My perspective will inevitably be affected by this and there are many intersections of oppression that I can't speak to from personal experience.

- English is not my first language and it probably shows now and then idk

Avatar
reblogged

A core feature of anti-fatness is the "you did this to yourself"-view. People are very invested in the idea that size is within everyone's control. It's soothing to believe that all fat people are a small series of good choices away from becoming thin and staying that way, and that thin people are success stories by virtue of existing.

Any time we speak up about discrimination and fatphobia, someone inevitably plays that card. Trolls will say "eat a salad, pig" and well-meaning health nuts will gently explain what calories are. In either case, we're met with a "you know, you can stop this at any time." Why, if nobody was fat, thin people wouldn't need to examine their biases! It sure would be an easier time for everyone if we weren't so Around and Bulliable!

Avatar
handgunman

I want to try not to be fatphobic, but as someone who's dietary struggles lie solidly in "did I remember to eat enough food" I definitely struggle to even comprehend how unwanted weight gain happens. Isn't what we eat, and how much, an active choice we make every day? Isn't the default state an unmoving and dying worm, and every deviation from this state only possible due to our volition?

Avatar
undead-moth

I know other people have responded to you, so I'll be brief in terms of answering your actual question: For most people, the factor contributing the least to their weight is what they eat and how they exercise - this is true for fat and thin people alike. The factor contributing the most is genetics, but following this, many other things contribute including: epigenetics, metabolism (look up set-point theory), socioeconomic status, trauma, stress, weight stigma, health conditions, medications, age, gender, race, the place they're from and maybe above all in a diet-culture obsessed society: dieting.

The number one long-term side effect of intentional weight loss is weight gain. Your body cannot tell the difference between dieting and starvation. Starving yourself slows your metabolism permanently. The reason it does this is because your body does not want to lose weight. Your body, no matter what size you are, will respond to weight loss as though it is threatening your life. It will try to prevent weight loss, and it will adjust your metabolism to further prevent weight loss in the future.

But this isn't the main reason I'm responding to you. The reason I'm responding to you is to tell you that whether or not every single person in the world's weight is completely in their control, and whether or not every single one of them on earth could lose weight if the wanted to, and whether or not every single one of them is entirely at fault for being fat, it is irrelevant.

Being fat does not need to be involuntary for you to support fat people.

There is no "trying not to be fatphobic, but -" But nothing. Support fat people regardless.

There's a difference between "supportive, but doesn't get it" and "supportive and understanding". Smiling and nodding and avoiding hurling direct insults is trivially easy, it's the bare minimum and I'm pretty sure I meet it(citation needed, I'm not in the affected group and therefore not qualified to certify my own behavior). Actually understanding the issues is a different task that is very much _in progress_ over here.

This post was the equivalent of me saying "I'm working on the homework, but I'm having trouble with question 4" and in one respect, yeah, not understanding question 4 is no excuse to not do _the rest of the assignment_. But also, getting question 4 right _is important_, and I'm very thankful for the information that's been provided to help bridge this gulf in understanding.

To summarize some of what I've been seeing, it's mostly about acknowledging that yes, there are solutions for unwanted weight, but those solutions are nowhere as simple/easy/accessible as they might seem, and there needs to be a critical look at the social assumption that weight is something inherently unwanted, as opposed to a natural and beautiful part of the human condition.

I understood what you're saying. I was a little heated in my response, which I apologize for (I'm used to malicious commenters). I will say though, that my response wasn't exclusively for you - it's for any person stumbling upon my response that may be more ignorant or malicious than you were.

I guess the reason I assumed some level of malice is because support doesn't require understanding. It's amazing - and I mean that sincerely - to see a thin person trying to understand since most don't even believe there is something to understand - But I think true support is possible even with zero understanding at all.

I guess instead of me saying, "No buts," which comes off mean, take this as me saying, "It is okay if you don't know everything as long as you support fat people regardless."

And I think this is possibly the most important thing to understand (for everyone, not specifically you) - because we do not live in a society that is going to believe, much less accept, that fatness isn't 100% chosen any time soon. Because of this, it is always going to be important to be of the opinion, "Okay, well even if it is their 'fault' they're fat, even if every fat person 'chose' to be fat, I still support them."

Avatar
reblogged

A core feature of anti-fatness is the "you did this to yourself"-view. People are very invested in the idea that size is within everyone's control. It's soothing to believe that all fat people are a small series of good choices away from becoming thin and staying that way, and that thin people are success stories by virtue of existing.

Any time we speak up about discrimination and fatphobia, someone inevitably plays that card. Trolls will say "eat a salad, pig" and well-meaning health nuts will gently explain what calories are. In either case, we're met with a "you know, you can stop this at any time." Why, if nobody was fat, thin people wouldn't need to examine their biases! It sure would be an easier time for everyone if we weren't so Around and Bulliable!

Avatar
handgunman

I want to try not to be fatphobic, but as someone who's dietary struggles lie solidly in "did I remember to eat enough food" I definitely struggle to even comprehend how unwanted weight gain happens. Isn't what we eat, and how much, an active choice we make every day? Isn't the default state an unmoving and dying worm, and every deviation from this state only possible due to our volition?

Avatar
undead-moth

I know other people have responded to you, so I'll be brief in terms of answering your actual question: For most people, the factor contributing the least to their weight is what they eat and how they exercise - this is true for fat and thin people alike. The factor contributing the most is genetics, but following this, many other things contribute including: epigenetics, metabolism (look up set-point theory), socioeconomic status, trauma, stress, weight stigma, health conditions, medications, age, gender, race, the place they're from and maybe above all in a diet-culture obsessed society: dieting.

The number one long-term side effect of intentional weight loss is weight gain. Your body cannot tell the difference between dieting and starvation. Starving yourself slows your metabolism permanently. The reason it does this is because your body does not want to lose weight. Your body, no matter what size you are, will respond to weight loss as though it is threatening your life. It will try to prevent weight loss, and it will adjust your metabolism to further prevent weight loss in the future.

But this isn't the main reason I'm responding to you. The reason I'm responding to you is to tell you that whether or not every single person in the world's weight is completely in their control, and whether or not every single one of them on earth could lose weight if the wanted to, and whether or not every single one of them is entirely at fault for being fat, it is irrelevant.

Being fat does not need to be involuntary for you to support fat people.

There is no "trying not to be fatphobic, but -" But nothing. Support fat people regardless.

There's a difference between "supportive, but doesn't get it" and "supportive and understanding". Smiling and nodding and avoiding hurling direct insults is trivially easy, it's the bare minimum and I'm pretty sure I meet it(citation needed, I'm not in the affected group and therefore not qualified to certify my own behavior). Actually understanding the issues is a different task that is very much _in progress_ over here.

This post was the equivalent of me saying "I'm working on the homework, but I'm having trouble with question 4" and in one respect, yeah, not understanding question 4 is no excuse to not do _the rest of the assignment_. But also, getting question 4 right _is important_, and I'm very thankful for the information that's been provided to help bridge this gulf in understanding.

To summarize some of what I've been seeing, it's mostly about acknowledging that yes, there are solutions for unwanted weight, but those solutions are nowhere as simple/easy/accessible as they might seem, and there needs to be a critical look at the social assumption that weight is something inherently unwanted, as opposed to a natural and beautiful part of the human condition.

Avatar
sitronsang

I really appreciate you asking questions and being upfront about the things you don't understand yet 🙂 The mainstream understanding of fatness and fat issues is generally very limited. The diet industry is unbelievably lucrative, and people tend to bundle weight, health, appearance and morality together in a very stress-inducing cocktail that makes most of us feel inadequate in some way. So like.. I don't blame anyone who has grown up in this society for having some faulty/lacking views and assumptions around fatness. All i ask is that people question those and work on them, for instance by reaching out and listening to fat people in activist spaces. Support based in genuine understanding of the details is much more powerful than solidarity for the sake of solidarity, I think.

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If you're fat, Fresh and fit listeners won't wanna sleep with you!

And that's how you actually promote obesity

Avatar
reblogged

A core feature of anti-fatness is the "you did this to yourself"-view. People are very invested in the idea that size is within everyone's control. It's soothing to believe that all fat people are a small series of good choices away from becoming thin and staying that way, and that thin people are success stories by virtue of existing.

Any time we speak up about discrimination and fatphobia, someone inevitably plays that card. Trolls will say "eat a salad, pig" and well-meaning health nuts will gently explain what calories are. In either case, we're met with a "you know, you can stop this at any time." Why, if nobody was fat, thin people wouldn't need to examine their biases! It sure would be an easier time for everyone if we weren't so Around and Bulliable!

Avatar
handgunman

I want to try not to be fatphobic, but as someone who's dietary struggles lie solidly in "did I remember to eat enough food" I definitely struggle to even comprehend how unwanted weight gain happens. Isn't what we eat, and how much, an active choice we make every day? Isn't the default state an unmoving and dying worm, and every deviation from this state only possible due to our volition?

Avatar
undead-moth

I know other people have responded to you, so I'll be brief in terms of answering your actual question: For most people, the factor contributing the least to their weight is what they eat and how they exercise - this is true for fat and thin people alike. The factor contributing the most is genetics, but following this, many other things contribute including: epigenetics, metabolism (look up set-point theory), socioeconomic status, trauma, stress, weight stigma, health conditions, medications, age, gender, race, the place they're from and maybe above all in a diet-culture obsessed society: dieting.

The number one long-term side effect of intentional weight loss is weight gain. Your body cannot tell the difference between dieting and starvation. Starving yourself slows your metabolism permanently. The reason it does this is because your body does not want to lose weight. Your body, no matter what size you are, will respond to weight loss as though it is threatening your life. It will try to prevent weight loss, and it will adjust your metabolism to further prevent weight loss in the future.

But this isn't the main reason I'm responding to you. The reason I'm responding to you is to tell you that whether or not every single person in the world's weight is completely in their control, and whether or not every single one of them on earth could lose weight if the wanted to, and whether or not every single one of them is entirely at fault for being fat, it is irrelevant.

Being fat does not need to be involuntary for you to support fat people.

There is no "trying not to be fatphobic, but -" But nothing. Support fat people regardless.

Avatar
reblogged

A core feature of anti-fatness is the "you did this to yourself"-view. People are very invested in the idea that size is within everyone's control. It's soothing to believe that all fat people are a small series of good choices away from becoming thin and staying that way, and that thin people are success stories by virtue of existing.

Any time we speak up about discrimination and fatphobia, someone inevitably plays that card. Trolls will say "eat a salad, pig" and well-meaning health nuts will gently explain what calories are. In either case, we're met with a "you know, you can stop this at any time." Why, if nobody was fat, thin people wouldn't need to examine their biases! It sure would be an easier time for everyone if we weren't so Around and Bulliable!

Avatar
handgunman

I want to try not to be fatphobic, but as someone who's dietary struggles lie solidly in "did I remember to eat enough food" I definitely struggle to even comprehend how unwanted weight gain happens. Isn't what we eat, and how much, an active choice we make every day? Isn't the default state an unmoving and dying worm, and every deviation from this state only possible due to our volition?

Thank you for asking!

There are a lot of factors that go into this, including but not limited to (and in no particular order):

- not everyone has access to good nutrition. Some people can't afford fresh produce, some have no ability to store it, and some live in places where you plainly can't get a lot of foods (so-called food deserts). For some, it's low variety and heavily processed foods, or nothing.

- a number of medical conditions cause weight gain and/or make weight loss even more difficult than it already is, this is easily googleable stuff if you're interested

- mental illness and especially eating disorders obviously influence people's food intake. No one chooses to have an ED. The most common ED is binge eating disorder, and the majority of people with EDs are in the overweight category. Anxiety and the accompanying hormones has also been shown to affect fat storage around the stomach. How we feel over time impacts our bodies a lot.

- some people can't cook for themselves. Maybe they have chronic pain or disabilities that make it impossible, maybe they just don't have the time or energy between work.

- let's not forget kids. Children often have little to no say in what they eat. They don't choose their meals, and some don't choose the amount - some get less than they're hungry for, and some are expected to clear their plate even if they're full.

These are things that are important to keep in mind re: the choices people may not have when it comes to their nutrition and the limits to individual control. But also:

- some people gain weight as they become adults simply because their metabolism changes and that's their normal body now

- some people just are fat, they're fat as kids and as teens and as adults. This is true for every society where the population isn't perpetually starving.

Finally, it's important to know the following:

- being fat is not inherently bad for you. Not all fat people have health problems related to their fatness, and as such there's no medical reason for them to try to change their bodies.

- intentional weight loss is very complex and very difficult, and statistically unlikely to maintain. The human body is programmed to retain energy, not shed it. Most people who lose substantial amounts of weight gain it back within a few years. Dieting comes with a lot of health risks and abysmal odds of success, yet it's still so often sold as the obvious right choice for anyone who's fat.

- even if you could look at someone's lifelong history with food and exercise and establish that they're objectively to "blame" for their fatness (which is of course not how life works), so what? That doesn't make it okay to discriminate against them, bully them, or overstep their boundaries. Nor does it mean that they can definitely lose the weight if they just choose to.

If you should decide to really dive into this issue, I recommend the book "what we don't talk about when we talk about fat" by Aubrey Gordon as a starting point 🙂

^ good addition in the notes!

cool than im gonna add some more about that!

so this can actually also be a generational effect up to 3 (?) generations. and we are not exactly sure how it works but there are 2 main hypothesises. For both it is imporant to note that this response of holding unto fat after starvation is not a direct genetic change but a change in genetic *regulation*, AKA the genes dont change but some get turned on more and some turned off.

1. These changes in gene regulation can potentially be passed on to your offspring. We are not entirely sure if this actually works reliable in humans, we know it does in plants but that is a different mechanism. There is some (potentially sketchy) evidence that it does, but nothing conclusive.

2. The other option here is that if a woman gets starved, the genetic regulation changes in her whole body, including egg cells. So if kids are born from these egg cells they have virtually already been through starvation and have the gene regulation to match it. This works up to 3 generations if the original person getting starved is pregnant with a girl. As the kids egg cell are already fully developed near the end of the pregnancy, these egg cells would then also have starvation influenced gene regulation.

I am not sure which of these science is currently leaning towards, or if there are other hypothesises. I know that there is some prove for both, but nothing conclusive.

Either way you can be fat because your grandma got starved.

Also one of the reasons its so hard to reliably lose weight is because fat gets initially distributed in a lot of specifically make little cells, which then fill up until they are big. When you lose weight you lose the fat inside the cells but *not the cells itself*, so when you stop dieting and start eating more again, those cells just fill up again. And if youve been eating too little (starving) your body will make it a priority to fill them up again.

Avatar

A core feature of anti-fatness is the "you did this to yourself"-view. People are very invested in the idea that size is within everyone's control. It's soothing to believe that all fat people are a small series of good choices away from becoming thin and staying that way, and that thin people are success stories by virtue of existing.

Any time we speak up about discrimination and fatphobia, someone inevitably plays that card. Trolls will say "eat a salad, pig" and well-meaning health nuts will gently explain what calories are. In either case, we're met with a "you know, you can stop this at any time." Why, if nobody was fat, thin people wouldn't need to examine their biases! It sure would be an easier time for everyone if we weren't so Around and Bulliable!

Avatar
handgunman

I want to try not to be fatphobic, but as someone who's dietary struggles lie solidly in "did I remember to eat enough food" I definitely struggle to even comprehend how unwanted weight gain happens. Isn't what we eat, and how much, an active choice we make every day? Isn't the default state an unmoving and dying worm, and every deviation from this state only possible due to our volition?

Thank you for asking!

There are a lot of factors that go into this, including but not limited to (and in no particular order):

- not everyone has access to good nutrition. Some people can't afford fresh produce, some have no ability to store it, and some live in places where you plainly can't get a lot of foods (so-called food deserts). For some, it's low variety and heavily processed foods, or nothing.

- a number of medical conditions cause weight gain and/or make weight loss even more difficult than it already is, this is easily googleable stuff if you're interested

- mental illness and especially eating disorders obviously influence people's food intake. No one chooses to have an ED. The most common ED is binge eating disorder, and the majority of people with EDs are in the overweight category. Anxiety and the accompanying hormones has also been shown to affect fat storage around the stomach. How we feel over time impacts our bodies a lot.

- some people can't cook for themselves. Maybe they have chronic pain or disabilities that make it impossible, maybe they just don't have the time or energy between work.

- let's not forget kids. Children often have little to no say in what they eat. They don't choose their meals, and some don't choose the amount - some get less than they're hungry for, and some are expected to clear their plate even if they're full.

These are things that are important to keep in mind re: the choices people may not have when it comes to their nutrition and the limits to individual control. But also:

- some people gain weight as they become adults simply because their metabolism changes and that's their normal body now

- some people just are fat, they're fat as kids and as teens and as adults. This is true for every society where the population isn't perpetually starving.

Finally, it's important to know the following:

- being fat is not inherently bad for you. Not all fat people have health problems related to their fatness, and as such there's no medical reason for them to try to change their bodies.

- intentional weight loss is very complex and very difficult, and statistically unlikely to maintain. The human body is programmed to retain energy, not shed it. Most people who lose substantial amounts of weight gain it back within a few years. Dieting comes with a lot of health risks and abysmal odds of success, yet it's still so often sold as the obvious right choice for anyone who's fat.

- even if you could look at someone's lifelong history with food and exercise and establish that they're objectively to "blame" for their fatness (which is of course not how life works), so what? That doesn't make it okay to discriminate against them, bully them, or overstep their boundaries. Nor does it mean that they can definitely lose the weight if they just choose to.

If you should decide to really dive into this issue, I recommend the book "what we don't talk about when we talk about fat" by Aubrey Gordon as a starting point 🙂

^ good addition in the notes!

Avatar
reblogged

A core feature of anti-fatness is the "you did this to yourself"-view. People are very invested in the idea that size is within everyone's control. It's soothing to believe that all fat people are a small series of good choices away from becoming thin and staying that way, and that thin people are success stories by virtue of existing.

Any time we speak up about discrimination and fatphobia, someone inevitably plays that card. Trolls will say "eat a salad, pig" and well-meaning health nuts will gently explain what calories are. In either case, we're met with a "you know, you can stop this at any time." Why, if nobody was fat, thin people wouldn't need to examine their biases! It sure would be an easier time for everyone if we weren't so Around and Bulliable!

Avatar
handgunman

I want to try not to be fatphobic, but as someone who's dietary struggles lie solidly in "did I remember to eat enough food" I definitely struggle to even comprehend how unwanted weight gain happens. Isn't what we eat, and how much, an active choice we make every day? Isn't the default state an unmoving and dying worm, and every deviation from this state only possible due to our volition?

Thank you for asking!

There are a lot of factors that go into this, including but not limited to (and in no particular order):

- not everyone has access to good nutrition. Some people can't afford fresh produce, some have no ability to store it, and some live in places where you plainly can't get a lot of foods (so-called food deserts). For some, it's low variety and heavily processed foods, or nothing.

- a number of medical conditions cause weight gain and/or make weight loss even more difficult than it already is, this is easily googleable stuff if you're interested

- mental illness and especially eating disorders obviously influence people's food intake. No one chooses to have an ED. The most common ED is binge eating disorder, and the majority of people with EDs are in the overweight category. Anxiety and the accompanying hormones has also been shown to affect fat storage around the stomach. How we feel over time impacts our bodies a lot.

- some people can't cook for themselves. Maybe they have chronic pain or disabilities that make it impossible, maybe they just don't have the time or energy between work.

- let's not forget kids. Children often have little to no say in what they eat. They don't choose their meals, and some don't choose the amount - some get less than they're hungry for, and some are expected to clear their plate even if they're full.

These are things that are important to keep in mind re: the choices people may not have when it comes to their nutrition and the limits to individual control. But also:

- some people gain weight as they become adults simply because their metabolism changes and that's their normal body now

- some people just are fat, they're fat as kids and as teens and as adults. This is true for every society where the population isn't perpetually starving.

Finally, it's important to know the following:

- being fat is not inherently bad for you. Not all fat people have health problems related to their fatness, and as such there's no medical reason for them to try to change their bodies.

- intentional weight loss is very complex and very difficult, and statistically unlikely to maintain. The human body is programmed to retain energy, not shed it. Most people who lose substantial amounts of weight gain it back within a few years. Dieting comes with a lot of health risks and abysmal odds of success, yet it's still so often sold as the obvious right choice for anyone who's fat.

- even if you could look at someone's lifelong history with food and exercise and establish that they're objectively to "blame" for their fatness (which is of course not how life works), so what? That doesn't make it okay to discriminate against them, bully them, or overstep their boundaries. Nor does it mean that they can definitely lose the weight if they just choose to.

If you should decide to really dive into this issue, I recommend the book "what we don't talk about when we talk about fat" by Aubrey Gordon as a starting point 🙂

Avatar

A core feature of anti-fatness is the "you did this to yourself"-view. People are very invested in the idea that size is within everyone's control. It's soothing to believe that all fat people are a small series of good choices away from becoming thin and staying that way, and that thin people are success stories by virtue of existing.

Any time we speak up about discrimination and fatphobia, someone inevitably plays that card. Trolls will say "eat a salad, pig" and well-meaning health nuts will gently explain what calories are. In either case, we're met with a "you know, you can stop this at any time." Why, if nobody was fat, thin people wouldn't need to examine their biases! It sure would be an easier time for everyone if we weren't so Around and Bulliable!

Avatar

Breaking news: 3 paragraph tumblr post did not cover the full nuance of extremely broad issue

OP due to hang in the town square by morning

Avatar
reblogged

just saw a ridiculous ed post talking about how "body positive people would all choose to be skinny if given the chance," and i just wanted to say as someone who used to be pretty small and gained a bunch of weight due to t and antidepressants i would literally never choose to be skinny or choose to go back. i love my strong, soft body. i love feeling big and solid. i love being warm and nice to hug and squeeze. i love being able to eat what i want and take care of my body the way it needs me to. and i don't just accept it because i have to- i feel hot, i feel attractive, i actively enjoy myself and the way my body looks. i prefer being this way to being thin. i would always choose this, every time, a million times over anything else

Avatar
reblogged

To those people who enjoy comparing being fat to being a smoker ("it's so bad for you", "concerned about your health", the public shame-oriented campaigns "worked") - here's why that comparison doesn't hold water:

- first of all, please actually look at the science. The science tell us pretty conclusively that smoking is harmful for your health. Being fat, on the other hand, is merely correlated with certain health risks and we haven't been able to prove any consistent causality. People truly don't realize how little evidence there actually is that being fat is bad for you in and of itself.

- nobody needs to smoke. You can quit smoking in a day. You cannot quit eating or having a body. I respect that smoking is an addiction and can be very hard to quit, but at the end of the day, it means giving up a very specific non-essential habit. To stop being fat means drastic and often dangerous changes to fundamental human behavior, and for a huge amount of people even that won't result in any major sustained weightloss.

- let's not forget about second-hand smoking. Fat people's existence doesn't harm other people in any way.

Avatar
timidsketch

Just wanted to clarify for anyone reading that I think the part about "You can quit smoking in a day" is the literal context of technically someone could stop smoking one day and never smoke again. I don't think the op meant "You can recover from an addiction in a single day." The physical act of not smoking can be done in a day, but the withdrawals and everything else that make quitting so difficult take longer to endure.

Two other relevant points are how fatness is a form of body diversity just like hair color, height, and blood type. Smoking is not. And already briefly mentioned, no amount of shame, harassment, bullying, abuse, ridicule, mocking, or joking actually turns fat people into thin people. Study after study have shown that those tactics do not and have never resulted in long term weight loss, or even short term weight loss for that matter. All it does is worsen mental health, create mental disorders like depression, and so much other harm. It's been shown to even CAUSE weight gain, which is what people doing the abuse say they are against. If the goal of the abuse was "health" (yeah right, but for the sake of this explanation), then you have achieved the exact opposite of your goal. Plus abusing someone "for their health" whether it's weight loss or smoking should never be acceptable. If doctors are supposed to do no harm as their #1 rule in their code of ethics, then I'm pretty sure random strangers shouldn't be causing harm in the name of perceived health either (not that medical abuse of fat patients isn't a huge issue as it is).

Absolutely, I am not trying to suggest it's easy to get over an addiction. I know that's a difficult and winding process and I am not looking to shame addicts or downplay their struggles. My point was, it is still categorically a non-essential behavior. That isn't true for Existing while fat. Existing isn't a habit.

The core of the whole comparison seems to be "both types of people are what they are because they're doing something they shouldn't be doing." Which is a pretty bad take. Smokers are smokers because they started smoking at some point. Fat people are fat for any number of reasons, not least because that's a natural thing for humans to be. It's not a habit, it's not an addiction, and it's not something we can - or should - just quit. There's a big difference between "stop doing that" and "stop being that".

also, even with smoking, people should mind their own business. even though the argument isn’t always applicable to fat people, we still have autonomy to do things that aren’t beneficial to our health. unless someone indicates to you that they’re struggling, keep your concern to yourself.

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You write a series of books about a fantastical, magical community. The community is plagued by prejudice. Some people in it wish to exclude those who haven't been part of it since birth. As this ultra-conservative movement worms its way into the media and government, the hate campaign escalates to systematic attempts to eradicate the "undesirables". The heroes of the story have to fight against these old and cruel ideas to make the community safe for everyone, regardless of their childhood or background. In fact, your self-insert character (an audience favorite) is one of the people targeted by the discrimination and violence. The story deals heavily with the dangers of political propaganda, with how a biased media can skew the truth and vilify those who get too critical in the eyes of the masses, and how those who are different in some way are so often misunderstood, even feared. The books are an unprecedented success, near-universally beloved for their fundamental message: the circumstances of your birth do not determine who you are or where you belong. Forge your own path, stand up for the downtrodden and excluded, and choose love over hate.

Then you go on to become the face of the movement against basic rights for trans people.

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sarah-ffa

I'm sorry to sound grouchy, but I'm getting a bit tired of fat liberationists being either ignorant of disability history and theories, or simply never making reference to either in their discussions. Fat lib owes disabled activism so much, but this is seldom acknowledged, despite the way fatness is nearly always treated like a self-inflicted ailment or disability. The "weak will" approach the medical establishment takes to fatness, the way it disregards bodily autonomy and patronises the patient is identical to the way the disabled and chronically ill community is treated. The social model of disability / concept of workplace accommodations, and the push for bodily acceptance "as is" — these are things that came from the disabled community. Disabled people have fought for the right to exist as social equals in the "wrong" bodies for a very long time. It would be helpful if people serious about fat lib learned about the history of disability and embraced the struggle for disabled equality.

This isn't a cool or sexy post, and I realise most abled people think of the disabled as disposable — our invisible status in the ongoing pandemic, for example — so I imagine this will get me many unfollows and probably no reblogs.

Nevertheless.

You will probably be disabled at some point in your life. So will many people you love. Disability is a class issue. Capitalism doesn't give a shit that the airline seat is too small in the same way it doesn't give a shit that you can't take your wheelchair on board. It doesn't care if your body doesn't fit. You are a consumer, not a person. Basically, what I'm saying is that these struggles are linked and we're on the same side. I would just like your words and actions to reflect this. That's all.

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shamebats

If T makes you gain weight and E and antidepressants do it too, and do does enjoying good food and not being hungry all the time, then perhaps maybe sometimes joy & weight gain come hand in hand and that's good

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"Fat liberation is a scam" fat liberation isn't selling you anything 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'm begging you people to stop seeing absolutes where there aren't any. Fat liberation is largely about dismantling the absolutes.

When we say "fat people can be perfectly healthy", some of you hear "all fat people are perfectly healthy" when the point is simply that weight and health aren't synonymous. It's more complex.

When we say that health looks different for everyone some of you hear "health is completely meaningless" when the point is actually just that it's more complex than either/or. YES, intentional weight loss can be the right path for someone! Look, I Have Said it! The problem is, there's a widespread myth saying it's the right path for everyone. That's not the case.

When we say health status does not indicate your intrinsic worth and should be irrelevant to how you're treated, some of you apparently hear "there's no reason to care about your own health", which is just bananas. Learn better reading comprehension.

Fat liberation is a political movement based on no absolute claims about health. Literally the point is that fat people deserve social equality regardless of health status. "Health is complex and individual" is a full on fact, but ultimately it's also beside the point.

The only absolute in this movement is that fat people are People and worthy of equity and basic respect. That's what you're objecting to when you say you're against fat liberation.

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