/Gently offers free jedi hug wallpaper//

This is a good post about how little actual story the clones got, how that affects the way they weren’t shown in the spotlight, but it’s also a bigger thing with the narrative of Star Wars and you can see it with the droid characters, too.  The narrative doesn’t see either clones or droids as slaves in any real weighted way, and thus the characters within the narrative cannot treat the clones as slaves because the narrative itself doesn’t see them that way. The story doesn’t look at Luke Skywalker owning droids and see a slave owner, so the characters within the story can’t look at Luke Skywalker and see a slave owner.  The story doesn’t see the clones as slaves, so the characters within the story can’t act as if the clones are slaves (unless they’re doing so in bad faith). And that’s so deeply frustrating because we, the audience, can look at a really fucked up situation and see what’s so clear to us, but the narrative doesn’t.  And trying to have a discussion about it, without establishing clear Watsonian vs Doylist understandings of the story (and which discussion we’re trying to have at all, if we’re discussing the narrative from within the story or if we’re discussing the flaws of the writing from imperfect real people writing the story) will just circle around and around again. As @smhalltheurlsaretaken​ lays out, the narrative portrays the Jedi as being the friends of the clones, that’s the relationship they had according to the in-universe world. And pointing out how fucked up the writing is on a Doylist level, doesn’t change that the Jedi couldn’t really act any other way, because the story would not see it that way.

I absolutely agree with all of this, this especially:

>> most of what we know to be very, very wrong with the Clones’ situation is barely acknowledged by the creative team, to the point we can pretty much assume they just don’t care beyond what’s convenient for a plotline. I mean, beside a few select characters Filoni is particularly fond of, the majority of the Clones are narrative props: they’re here to be killed off to heighten the tension, to be comic relief, or to highlight a particular trait of the Jedi they’re serving under - and of course, they’re here to execute Order 66.

and it’s something I’ve been thinking a lot about recently, too.

I feel like there are a couple of things going on.  One is just that the writers/creators didn’t really seem to emotionally get/care about all the unfortunate implications of this whole clone situation.  No one seems to have really stepped back and looked at things like how the clones were raised, whether they had any actual choice, how or even if the clones might want to grieve, what the emotional challenges of officers ordering their own brothers to their deaths might be, etc.  (A particular pet peeve: There seems to be bits and pieces of acknowledging the existential horror of your brothers all suddenly becoming brainwashed, but significantly less of the corollary that that ought to make every free clone utterly desperate to free every brother they can get their hands on as fast as they possibly can.)

But I think the other big issue is just that TCW is nominally a children’s show, but it’s also about a war.  And since it’s about a war, there need to be deaths to show that it’s actually serious.  But since it’s a kid’s show it can’t be too tragic.  But hey, you have a bunch of mostly nameless, faceless, fully-armored beings (who also happen to look quite a bit like stormtroopers), and you can show them dying right and left without turning every episode into a tragedy.  

(The way the clones weren’t really treated as individuals in AotC, and only barely in RotS, probably didn’t help either.)

And as soon as someone is no longer a kid, you start getting some cognitive dissonance.  If each clones is a unique person with a name and friends and feelings, isn’t it a problem that they’re dying right and left?  Shouldn’t someone mourn them?  If the Jedi think clones are valuable, and the Jedi are willing to pause a critically important mission to give a Jedi a funeral, if they really believe what they say they do, shouldn’t they at least mention all the clones that died?

But if the show ever acknowledges that the clones’ deaths are tragic, the tragedy would be utterly overwhelming, so it really can’t.  There are a handful of times when a named clone dies (Hardcase, Hevy, Jesse, Echo temporarily, Fives, etc.), and while those moments are sad, they don’t linger.  Which, I guess, is kind of an inevitable effect of being part of a TV series, too.  Any grief doesn’t linger episode to episode (or at least past a single arc).  And that goes for clones’ grief for their brothers just as much as the Jedi’s.  

Rex and Cody do have their brief moment of reminiscing in S7 (”Sometimes in war it’s hard to be the one that survives.”), but how many times beyond that does anyone, clone or Jedi, bring up anyone’s death from a previous episode?  (Which is actually a legitimate question of mine rather than rhetorical: I’ve been bouncing around between episodes, and still have some I haven’t gotten around to watching yet.)

So yes, I very much feel that this isn’t a failure of the Jedi - they’re clearly written to show that care for the clones more than anyone else - but rather a failure (or at least a drawback) in how the entire show is designed.  There is so much tragedy - and so many extremely unfortunate implications - but it’s more a case of viewers going deeper into the show and all the logical implications thereof than the writers seem to have ever expected them to.

Not only is despising the Jedi and everything they stand for a pretty dumb take, but it’s also like boring as hell… like they have this cosmic connection with the fabric that binds the universe together and they use it move things without touching them, swing around their pretty colorful swords, low-key read people’s minds and make friends do you not see the potential?!?!

Wild how people really think Jedi can't have emotional connections/think that's what "attachment" means when the Jedi are out there befriending everything that isn't actively trying to kill them (and sometimes even then).

Animals, especially large animals? Friends now.

Politicians, even though they're predisposed against them? Friends.

Random people that get caught up in their missions? Friends by the end of it at least.

Unexpected army commissioned under suspicious circumstances? Best friends.

The pirate that kidnapped you? Well he seems to think you're friends, at any rate.

The Jedi Order and the Galactic Republic

Protectors of the Galactic Symbiosis

In The Phantom Menace, Qui-Gon Jinn defines symbiosis as "life forms living together for mutual advantage." As George Lucas tells us, "we're all part of a symbiotic relationship, meaning, that we all help each other" and "we have to all be one in order to go forward." One of the key themes of Star Wars that we should notice, he says, is that "everything is interconnected" and just like Obi-Wan Kenobi insists, "what happens to one of you will affect the other." For this, we all need to help each other, so we can keep our world in balance.

As Lucas explains, this is exactly what the Galactic Republic, the galaxy-wide democracy is: a "symbiotic relationship," a "symbiotic circle" of 100 000 star systems. "I wanted to emphasize the point that the Republic was a democracy” Lucas tells us, and the Queens, Kings, Doges, Duchesses “are all elected officials” and their titles are “a designation of a ruler, like president.” During the thousand years while Republic was functioning, the galaxy, the whole ecosystem, which is life itself - the living Force, both light and dark - was in "balance."

The Jedi Knights are guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy; their job is "to convince both sides to resolve their differences and not to go to war" and who "try to convince people to get along." Thus, they are the guardians of symbiosis, shepherding the universe so they can all be one. And as a direct result, the allegiance of the Jedi Order is naturally to the Republic, to democracy and the Galactic Senate. The Jedi Order did not serve the Senate because of a political affinity of some kind, but because the unity of the galaxy in one gigantic democracy is the universal symbiosis realized, it is a galaxy governed by the principles of peace, freedom and justice, with the Jedi guarding these values. The Galactic Republic "prospered and grew under the wise rule of the Senate and the protection of the venerable Jedi Knights."

How much influence the Republic had over the Jedi?

It must be noted that the concept of the Jedi Order cannot be taken out of its mythological and fairy tale context. Although the Jedi Knights "serve the Senate," for it's the symbiotic group, through which the people of all the planets are existing in a larger symbiotic relationship, and for this, a Jedi's allegiance is "to the Republic, to democracy," the Jedi Order is a separate, independent power and authority next to the Galactic Senate and the Supreme Chancellor.

In George Lucas' myth, the Jedi Knights are the "gods," the "most moral of anybody in the galaxy," guarding peace and justice in the universe, watching over symbiosis, which is live in balance, having "the moral authority" to "keep the governments of all the planets in line, so that they don't do terrible things" and they're the "peacekeepers of the human world." They're "warrior-monks who keep peace in the universe without resorting to violence" have got the power "to send the whole force of the Republic, which is 100 000 systems, so if you don't behave they can bring you up in front of the Senate. They'll cut you off at the knees, politically."

As it was shown in the Star Wars Saga and the Clone Wars, the Jedi Council "will act as they deem necessary" even when they received direct requests from the Galactic Senate or the Chancellor, and has the power to refuse them, and even assign Senators to missions. "Republic business" and "internal Jedi business" were entirely separate from each other. The Jedi Order has an internal, tradition-based jurisdiction, independent and sealed from the courts of the Galactic Republic. While they're part of the Jedi Order, a Jedi Knight cannot be put on trial at the Republic's courts. The Council has the power to assign Knights to missions without requesting the consent of the Senate or the Chancellor, and the Chancellor did not interfere in Jedi affairs, nor the Jedi had to report to him. Obi-Wan reminds Anakin, "our allegiance is to the Senate, not to its leader."

Failing symbiosis and Jedi generals

As George Lucas explains, in Episode I, II and III, "the Senators have fallen out of the symbiotic circle" and the "symbiotic relationship had torn apart" because "they couldn't agree on anything because their interests became so divergent, so they couldn't get anything done as a Republic." Despite the laws of the Galactic Republic are prohibiting slavery in the entire galaxy, as Darth Sidious explains, "The Republic is not what it once was. The senate is full of greedy squabbling delegates There is no interest in the common good." The Jedi become unable to uphold peace in justice: just like Padmé Amidala expressed, "the Republic no longer functions" - in an uncaring galaxy, blindspots were formed, crime lords and slavers built their dominions on worlds like Tatooine. "The Republic doesn't exist out here", as Shmi said. All the Jedi could do is to hope for things to change for the better, that the Republic can be saved, that the balance of the Force, a symbiotic galaxy can be restored.

In Episode II, "Darth Sidious/Palpatine creates a war. It's all manufactured It's not real." The war "represents a failure to listen" and the Senate grants "emergency powers" to him, and with this "radical amendment" the Senate practically shuts down democracy to ensure its survival. Effectively a dictator, Palpatine commanded the usage of the clone army. "He enlisted the Jedi Knights as generals to command the Clone Army." The very existence of the clone army was unethical and amoral - war itself is -, causing further wounds on the principles that served as the foundations of the Republic. The Jedi Knights had to choose: "Are they going to stick with their moral rules and all be killed, which makes it irrelevant, or do they help save the Republic? They have good intentions, but they have been manipulated which was their downfall." Lucas explains, "The Jedi valiantly accepted their assignment, though never having served as military commanders, they were unaccustomed to the wages of war." He adds: "they’re now used as generals and they’re fighting in a war, and they’re doing something that they really weren’t meant to do. They’re being corrupted by this war, by being forced to be generals instead of peacemakers.”

As Lucas wrote, "As dedicated as the Separatists were in their resolve to create a new order to replace the failing Republic, the Jedi were equally determined to preserve the Republic and defeat the Sith, who they understood all too well were the masterminds of the Separatist movement. They still believed in the Republic, still deemed it a Republic worth saving."

"The Jedi rebellion"

However, as the Clone Wars rage on, the Senate votes more and more executive powers to the Chancellor, who gains control "over the Senate and the courts" and wants to interfere into Jedi affairs. Padmé and other Senators cannot help but wonder, "what if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists." The Jedi Order realized: the Galactic Republic is in grave danger. It's no longer a democracy, and the Chancellor uses his powers to gain more and more, and they suspect, he won't return them to the Senate when the war ends, but keep it and turns the Republic into something else.

They sense, "the dark side of the Force [designed around greed] surrounds the Chancellor" and they realize, "if he does not give up his emergency powers (...) then he should be removed from office." Under this scenario "the Jedi Council would have to take control of the Senate, in order to secure a peaceful transition." However, as Lucas says, "the nascent Rebellion and the Jedi didn't move fast enough." Palpatine is revealed to be a Sith Lord, and as Lucas says, the Sith "want to dominate the galaxy, to control everything."

Just like Lucas says, democracy dies "with cheers." The Senate is ready to "give away" democracy to "the Devil" and they celebrate him when he proclaims himself to their Emperor, ordering the army to slaughter "the gods." Padmé announces: "So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause." It would be important to notice that despite the scenes elaborating the political reality were deleted from Episode III, it is clear that the Galactic Empire did not have a name yet, but the Republic was no more. The "Jedi rebellion" was an attempt to take down the tyrant who used the pretence of democracy to destroy symbiosis, to destroy balance and to finish the creation of his Empire. Although Palpatine laments, the Jedi has no trust in the Senate, the Republic or democracy, one must realize that Sidious's reasoning is that democratic principles should allow and legitimize their own destruction and condone dictatorship. This logic resulted the fall of the Roman Republic, the French First Republic and the Weimar Republic in our real world. "Democratic vote against democracy" does not exist: that's called coup.

In conclusion

For decades, popular belief held that the political aspect of George Lucas' second trilogy is tedious - however, it's surprisingly clear, despite it still remains mythological, philosophical and PG13. As George Lucas tells us, "we're all part of a symbiotic relationship, meaning, that we all help each other" and "we have to all be one in order to go forward." In order to do that, we shall work just like one huge democracy, realizing this symbiotic circle, so the Force, made up of the life of all living things, is in balance, interconnectedness is is recognized and respected. This is the state of being that is under the guidance and protection who are "regular people like the rest of us," but ones who dedicate their lives to "make sure everyone is protected, to bring peace." Their role in the democratic government is a mythological one that cannot be compared to real world branches of power, since it is the pillar of morality, constituted by of "the gods," who are sage monks, also happened to be very good warriors, serving as "ultimate father figures" and "intergalactic therapists". And "if you don't work in the ecosystem that you're in, then when you pull yourself out, it collapses. And if you keep doing selfish things, pretty soon, the whole thing will collapse as well." And this leads to the birth of a world ruled by "the Devil," who, and all his minions actually "are people who are very self-centered and selfish.

The intended end of the Saga, the end of the Third Trilogy is, as George Lucas planned and intended, is that the Republic and the Jedi Order is restored.

Sources

(Please note: I used no Disney or Legends Star Wars materials, (save for the one Shatterpoint foreword) since I only interested in George Lucas' Canon)

Star Wars Saga and Star Wars: The Clone Wars

Star Wars Archives 1977-1983

Star Wars Archives 1999-2005

Star Wars: The Phantom Menace "Prime of the Jedi" featurette

George Lucas' foreword for Shatterpoint by Matthew Stower

Interviews with George Lucas 1 2 3 4 5

And no, I’m not going to delve into the whole Anakin/Luminara dynamic after the factory blows up and they’re searching for their Padawans. That is a horse that has been beaten to death that this point and there’s plenty of great meta out there that shows how Anakin and Luminara BOTH love their student.

I’m talking about how good of an idea it was for the Padawans to go undercover into the factory while the ADULTS put themselves in the direct line of droid fire with bare minimum cover. There’s a lot of people that love to rip into Luminara’s character when she unveils her plan she and Barriss had prepared for but again I don’t think these people utilize critical thinking when it comes to characters that aren’t the mains. I personally think Luminara’s plan was full of good intentions. She wanted to keep the girls out of as much danger as possible (she most likely didn’t forget how quick Ahsoka was to put herself up against Ventress in their mission together and wanted to return the favor and keep Ahsoka safe along with Barriss). Look no one is going to disagree on how much that mission sucks for all parties involved, but Luminara seemed to try to make the most out of seemingly impossible situation.

1.) First off, the idea of sneaking the teenage girls into the factory was probably the safest option for the Padawans. Judging by Anakin’s reaction, the fact that there would be catacombs under the factory itself doesn’t seem to be common knowledge, thus the Poggle and the gang wouldn’t be betting on their enemies to know about it either. With that being said, having that kind of advantage immediately lessens the chance of Ahsoka and Barriss getting hurt as their enemies wouldn’t be expecting them and again…they are out of the direct line of fire happening outside. Anakin, Luminara, and the Clones literally have no cover. Do you really think it would have been fair to put the Padawans out there too when their own Masters are struggling? Luminara even said that with a frontal assault their losses would be high. Furthermore, there’s even a point where Anakin and Luminara have the Clones stay back while they go destroy the bridge.

2.) People love to say that Barriss being tasked to memorize the labyrith is like a form of child abuse but I hate to break it to you, it’s not. Anyone who has read Barriss’s EU novels (The Medstar duology written by Steve Perry and Micheal Reeves, which Feloni himself has also read) would know that Barriss’s wicked intelligence and memorization is very in character for her. Before all this terrorist bullshit, Barriss was characterized to be an extremely gifted healer whose intelligence was exceptional. It was also shown in these novels that Luminara would never ask Barriss to do anything she wouldn’t be comfortable with. Honestly y’all I think if Barriss did not have photographic memory, I think Luminara would have memorized that shit herself, because she would rather die than do anything to compromise her student. As I’ve mentioned this is not a far fetched theory as this was their dynamic written well before TCW that Feloni based on these books when it came to these characters.

Unlike Anakin (I love him too so don’t come for me) who didn’t trust in Ahsoka’s ability to run a briefing by herself, Luminara trusts and believes in Barriss. She gave her a task she knew Barriss could do and never doubted her Padawan for a second even when she too was starting to worry like Anakin.

3.) Like with any plan, there will always be risks no matter how meticulous it is. What ended up happening to Ahsoka and Barriss down there was a bad accident. No one can control the off chance that a bug would wake up and alert Poggle of what’s actually going on. No one can control the fact that the girls were outnumbered and that their bombs were taken away as a result of this development. It’s something Star Wars is always preaching about, there are just some things you can’t control, you just have to make the best of it and have the courage to make the better choice. It’s pretty evident in both Anakin and Luminara’s reactions when the factory went down that they were not expecting that and were hurting as a result of it.

In conclusion, there wasn’t a single person in this episode that did not have good intentions and I’m tired of Luminara being painted as this cold, heartless woman because of things she cannot control and due to her ability to have a handle on her emotions.

I will never not reblog this whenever I see it. 💚💙

Something that makes me angry:

So we've seen the disgusting take that Anakin was right/justified to massacre the Tuskens

We hate it

Now thankfully, there are people outside of us pro-Jedi who say "No."

Unfortunately, there are some people who agree that what Anakin did was wrong, but then they go and say "he should have just gone after the men" or only the ones responsible

How is only killing the men better?

Your still killing an entire group over the actions of the few, just because it's a smaller group doesn't make it better

And Anakin has no way of knowing which Tuskens were responsible

No, he can't "use the force" to figure that out

All that aside, by what right does Anakin have to kill the Tuskens? To act as judge, jury, and executioner?

"Because they killed his mom!"

BULLSHIT!

There's a reason why judges, jurors, and executioners are not supposed to have a personal connection to cases/crimes/victims/accused

Impartiality

Furthermore, its wrong for a Jedi to be the judge, jury, and executioner

They are not supposed to take things into their own hands like that

Most importantly, Revenge is not the right way

Jedi don't take revenge, because it will not make them feel better, it will not undo what is done

Revenge will leave you worse off

At best, it will give you satisfaction, but satisfaction is temporary, it fades in time

And I think that people have got it into their heads that this is a Jedi-only thing, That only Jedi need to not take revenge (or they think that the Jedi are wrong for thinking revenge is bad), that taking revenge is natural and good for real people

Its not

It will not help you

You will not feel better

The pain that made you take revenge will not be fixed

Just temporarily covered up by satisfaction

And when the satisfaction goes away, the pain will become apparent again

Related note to this, but I think its very important to note that in her final moments, Shmi didn't seem to care about the pain she was in, she did not ask for revenge

All that mattered to her was that she was with Anakin

There was no pain, no sadness, just joy, pride, and happiness at seeing him

Because those good feelings, those positive emotions, will always outweigh the bad, make them not matter

(Also I think this was deliberate on Lucas' part, Shmi's death has a lot of parallels to Vader/Anakin's in rotj, the pain no longer mattering, just the happiness in spending their final moments with their children)

When people call the Jedi dogmatic for trying to restore balance to the Force and get rid of the Sith. Do they not realize that the Sith are literally like mass murdering, selfish assholes with kill counts well above the hundreds (and that's for someone relatively tame, like Ventress. Vader's like a billion times worse and so is Palpatine, Dooku, etc). How is it bad trying to get rid of them again? Saving millions, even billions of people, and not wanting the galaxy to be flung into mindless chaos and oppression is dogmatic? So stupid

The Jedi don't even actively try to hunt down the Sith, its more like... when the Sith show up and cause trouble, the Jedi step in and defend. In Star Wars, historically, it is usually Sith who kill Sith, because these dudes have chaotic murder as a philosophy.

The Jedi don't go out to proactively eradicate Sith, because Falling and becoming Sith is a choice. Sith choose to become evil. They choose to murder, just like Jedi choose and keep choosing to help others, to try to spread peace. They also choose to eradicate others' choice, and to prevent others from removing themselves from the Sith's control. Sith coerce (the clones), subvert and inculcate (Anakin, Ventress), or torture and twist (Maul).

Even after Sith start down the path of evil, murder, violence, and genocide, the Jedi still try to offer them choices when they track them down to confront them-- to turn back to the Light, or at least to stop being a Sith. Some people take that choice, including Quinlan Vos and Asajj Ventress-- but others refuse to turn back. Dooku, for example, duels with Yoda after Yoda tells his student that he can stop, that he can be forgiven, that he doesn't need to keep going down the Dark path. Dooku, however, refuses.

What's less dogmatic than free will and the reminder that you can always choose differently, and that someone will be willing to help and forgive you?

Daily reminder that a Jedi Falling Is Not A Good Thing That Would Have Saved The Galaxy

No examples on canon give that idea, if anything, they tell you the opposite, so stop acting like it ultimately makes things better when it clearly doesn't.