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#daphne x castiel cw – @selfihateyouithink on Tumblr
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round and round the winchesters go

@selfihateyouithink / selfihateyouithink.tumblr.com

I am an Angel of the Lord who probably would do well in finance, and I don't like to do what people expect. Thirty-four. White USian. Autistic, anxious depressive (with PTSD). Nonbinary/genderqueer (demigirl). She/they pronouns. Sex-indifferent pan gay greyromantic demisexual. INFP/ISFP. Survivor. Socialist. Feminist. Relativist. Agnostic atheist. Struggling college student (yes, still). Honest misanthrope (because humans are works of art but humanity is tainted by its hatreds, conceits, and deceits), almost never neutral (because the status quo isn't), and unapologetic slasher 'til death do I stop. I am things, I question things, I like things, I hate things, I watch things, I read things, I write things, I say things, I do things. Things happen on this blog.
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Anonymous asked:

Hey I was just wondering if there is any evidence for Cas not being straight other than being in love with Dean?

Not really in the way you’re probably thinking of; it’s a completely different game with Cas though, and we have a lot more undeniable canon things to work with outside of his on-screen pairings in a very different way than how we mostly only have innuendo and looks and odd comments from Dean pinging our radar. Cas is not a cis straight dude and even if they only ever textually write him in “het” looking pairings all they’re doing is ignoring chunks of Cas’s identity which can still be inferred from their own canon and therefore can’t be discounted or denied in the same way.

Discussion of, like, everything below the cut, which has to include Megstiel and 9x03 and Cas x Hannah.

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PSA:

There needs to be a lot more awareness and questioning of heterosexism and a lot more discussion of consent in most metas like this. (And y’know, read mine, which already does that, plus discussing his disability and the like.)

Otherwise, you can perpetuate the issues while going “eh maybe not but like?” You put the burden of proof on proving ‘no’ instead of ‘yes’ and proving lack of het-read attractions/desires instead of proving they mean actual canon het.

“Castiel arguably could have had romantic feelings for Meg” when all that actually textually showed up from anybody but presumptuous abusers was pacifist allyship or maybe friendship at best = heterosexism. 

“Cas could have been thinking about it for real for the first time” = heterosexism, allosexism, and rape culture, ignoring his subtle deflections, presuming yes cos ‘the no isn’t clear enough’.

“Castiel was suddenly attracted to women in 9x03″ = heterosexism, when that scene was arguably framed as sensory overload and Reaper/Cas proves nothing but sex drive, at most, if it were consensual (and it wasn’t).

People also need to stop saying “all angels are x” especially when what is also inferred from the canon is: angels are coded with a cishet-like binary, “junkless” or not. Not to mention, the gender essentialism of saying all of this species are this cos they’re inhuman and seemingly incorporeal is Not Good.

I admire you, Lizzy, but I see so much “this is what text (supposedly) presents” while rarely actually interrogating the rape culture and heterosexism of it, all the time, and this--while definitely somewhat--is only marginally better than the others.

I’m glad (GREYpanromantic) demisexuality is the conclusion, it should be, but.

[sighs]. I wish, as ever, that this had been written by an actual greyromantic demisexual like Castiel, instead of someone who maybe seems to be guessing at how it works and partially doing so by essentializing angels.

P.S. Yes, Castiel said, in 9x06, “That’s something humans do, right?” And Dean replied “my dates’re usually alcohol and a pocket of ones” or something like that.

P.S.S. You also didn’t note Castiel’s terror during 5x03 and 9x06 (and arguably during that “why would I want that?” moment in 6x10) or the part where Castiel called sex ‘boring and repetitive’ in 7x21, dear.

And while I love that you, without caveats, noted 6x10 as weaponizing sexuality (and noted the possible–if very arguably disproven–connection being the only way Cas’d want Meg; with or without wanting Meg, Cas is a greyromantic demisexual, his orientation doesn’t affect the fact that he is not attracted to her anyway and that, as people should always more clearly note, insisting he was and would say yes to her and that would definitely be consensual is heterosexist and indicative of rape culture), 

…you might’ve wanted to mention the fact that the battle of weaponized sexuality started in 5x10 when she wanted to assault him then and he used her sexual aggression to distract her, which is part of why she assaults him in 6x10 and why he hits back using that method. It’s an ongoing battle between them, and her, not his, choice, continuing to use that method.

Also, there needs to be scare quotes or capitals to undermine the dehumanizing effect of calling romantic love and sexual desire/attraction “human”. Please.

There’s more, maybe, to correct. I might add more later, when I’ve worked myself up to reading something like this again. (It’s more triggering than I expected when I opened it.)

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Response:

I think I agree with most of your megstiel reasoning but not with some conclusions. I definitely don’t think he loved her in any way whatsoever, if platonically, familial or romantically. which is what i meant with my first stentence because you actually give the exact reasons why I think that ; so maybe this is also just an issue of semantics and how pendantic we ( or I ?) are. There is little doubt in my mind that Cas expierenced nothing but pure dislike of her pre 7x21, there were literally only antagonist towards each other, then they had like three episodes, 2 of which Cas was having this, like you said, un-organic/genuine forced attachment to her has a result her manipulation when they spend a couple days at most with each other  and then they talked once in 8x17. they way I precieve romantic love it just can’t develop there for me.

They spend way to little time with each other, Cas had his agency effected literally /every/ scene they shared since 7x21, they dont know each other ( and not in a “I always thought you were xy but turned out you were different” but, well okay maybe that also, but also literally since they in summary hang out around each other for a handful of days), and Cas doesnt seem to care about her much as well. Which 8x17 and post portrayed with him literally not giving a shit what happended to her with Crowley and made no mention of every missing her/wanting to be around her or even flat out wondering where she even is or anything. I just personally can’t read this as any kind of love, I’m not even conviced of any friendship I see nothing but a few day lasting dependency and a chat and some casual “niceness”. I think Cas had a deeper and /actual/ bond with Hannah or even Nora (not romantically I mean) than her. I think on a whole Meg is pretty much irrelevant to Cas. lol.

It’s also telling for me that Cas only showed any nice/sweet behaviour towards her when something influenced him; Megs manipulation,  Sam’  hell memories, waking up from a comatose state, Naomis mindcontrolling (including orders to use her), but whenever no outside force effects him we only see Cas show negative emotions (pre 7x21) or completel apathy aka not caring about her outside when she is directly in his presence.

=======================================================

(I got your thing, anon. I bolded the parts I agree with the most. Also I have no idea what your email is anymore after I Drafted this.)

#Long post.

I dunno, I agree with you, but I don’t? You’re right, it might be you being pedantic. I have felt a short-lived form of love before for someone who was kind to me when I really needed it (and regretted it, though I’m not referring to my Meg here—I knew my Meg for years and had close contact with her for at least a couple before I fell) before, so I just don’t feel comfortable invalidating Castiel’s feelings just because Meg induced them and used them to keep him as her pet and abuse him. I do pointedly use that word, though, pet, which has a completely inorganic connotation of submissive love formed by the slightest kind treatment (that sometimes goes away after a while with a new “owner”). Contrary to how he feels for Dean, and Sam, which bursts out of him just being near them, “I love you guys.”

I think it’s dishonest to say that because it was temporary—and ill-influenced, between S7 and S8 (and had dissipated by S8), there was no feeling in it at all during that time for Meg to manipulate. Especially in light of what Cas said in 10x10 about Claire, how it seemed to carry a certain dry resignation. I think Cas was remembering that feeling and sighing with frustration, for both himself and Claire. (For the record, I also think Claire loved/loves Randy more than Cas ever felt for Meg. But her exposure to him was obviously longer and less forced.)

I also don’t think Nora and Hannah (or Daphne, though she got the closest) got any further in the intensity of the bond, though they, at least, were more organic. I don’t think Castiel has felt romantic love, tbh, for anybody but Dean, ever, though because he’s greyro, I do think he could, rarely, feel it immediately. I just’ve never seen any indication toward it thus far that wasn’t performative or ambiguous polite rejection, with anybody but Dean.

In addition to the fact that for angels, “pain is pain” (so “joy is joy” and “love is love”), I think that singularity is part of why he doesn’t know what it is—what the profound bond means. (But he’s learning. /singsongs.)

Submitted by anonymous
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All Your Punk!Cas are Autistic and Demisexual

Punk!Cas sitting next to Dean to share their Physics textbook (since Dean is his partner, and one of the best in the class).

Dean mumbling, “Personal space, Cas.” even as he drinks in Cas’s tattooed neck, this close to him, like a drowning man with his eyes.

Cas looking up from the book, thoughtfully chewing his lip ring—a little green Koosh today, and backing off immediately. “My apologies.”

—-

Punk!Cas nursing a beer at a party and Dean flopping on the couch next to him, scaring off Goth!Meg in her tight jeans trying to pick Cas up with soft words and invasive petting while he remains unfazed.

An immediate soft smile aimed to the side. “Hello, Dean.”

Dean sweating under his double layers cos it’s summer and Cas is wearing this tight t-shirt with some philosophical saying on it and shorts.

Dean being like “So what’s with the shorts? For Meg, maybe?” as he’s surreptitiously checking out Cas’s tight calves below the ragged, ripped jean material.

Castiel glancing at Dean with furrowed brows of puzzlement.

"What would Meg have to do with my clothing?"

—-

Badass Punk!Cas leaping into a fray of assholes beating on Dean with an audible snarl, dressed in tie-dye jeans with a bee lip ring and a mohawk today, kicking some ass.

"Such a punk," the principal mutters, pulling Cas off Uriel and Alastair as Dean, three feet down the hall, picks up the shattered art project he’d made for Sam (that they’d destroyed).

Cas pulling away from the principal with determination, to go help Dean. “Is it ruined? I can help you fix it if you want.”

Dean looking up at him with glossy eyes. “You got detention for me, Cas, I think we’re good.”

Cas gently putting his hand over Dean’s and smiling, before running off to face the principal’s wrath.

Dean looking after him, shaking his head, watching his tie-dyed ass bounce away with a fond expression.

—- 

Dean seeing Punk!Cas, with his wildly purple highlights and eyebrow stud, dressed in all black, and shorts again, talking to preppy Daphne in her floofy skirt and polo with a smile at Meg’s birthday party and sighing, because of course he doesn’t have a chance.

Dean asking Punk!Cas if they’re going to the dance next week with a dejected slant of his shoulders.

Cas shrugging. “She didn’t ask me. I might go with Nora as friends, though.”

Dean biting his lip. “Anybody you’d go with, uh, not as friends?”

Cas, rubbing his hands over his knees, shrugs. “Why? Have you heard something?”

Dean stuffing his hands in his pockets and glancing away. “Nah. Just wondering.”

Cas staring at his tense jaw for a long time afterward, turned toward him so obviously that Meg walks in to ask Cas herself, and clacks in her leather skirt and brand new heels right back out of the room, annoyed. Happy fucking birthday to me. Never gonna catch that unicorn, apparently.

—-

Punk!Cas and Dean at the dance with friends and they can barely hear each other, so they’re mere inches apart.

Cas’s tux is purple and black plaid and he actually bought a fucking lip ring that says boogie in tiny sparkly letters, the goddamn dork.

Dean comments on it with an aborted pointing motion that almost touched his lips. “Y’know, people think you’re really weird, man. Stuff like that, fighting so much, reading old school philosophy instead of doing gym…”

Cas smiles and shrugs. “People will invariably think that of anyone, Dean, you know that. It may as well be in a way I find comfortable.”

Dean mulls that over for a moment and then reaches over to squeeze Cas’s hand. “I think your weirdness is wonderful. And,” Dean trembles a bit, “and sexy.” 

Cas swallows audibly. “I think you’re sexy, too, Dean.”

Dean almost hurts Cas’s hand, he holds it so hard then, whipping around, “You don’t think anybody is sexy, dude!”

Cas leans in with a whisper, “I don’t know anybody, not like you, Dean. I don’t like anybody like you.”

Dean glances around and yeah, this is scary as fuck, because guy, but. It’s Cas.

So he meets Cas halfway where he leans, and they kiss, just once, chaste. Smiling with sparkly boogie between their mouths with their eyes closed.

(Later that night in Dean’s bed, while Sam’s hanging over with Kevin and Jess, is not so chaste, and Dean gets to find out what Cas wears under his tight, bizarrely patterned pants.

The answer?

Nothing.)

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myFanbase: It’s been revealed that Castiel is going to have a love interest in season 9, played by Shannon Lucio. Can you give us any scoop on that? Misha Collins: Well, I can tell you that they get intimate in the most intimate sense of the word. Which is for somebody like Castiel, who is up to this point a virgin, very poignant. (x)

We have confirmation that Cas is canonically a virgin until he hooks up with April (likely in 9x03 as that is the only episode the actress is casted for).

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Here's the deal, Supernatural fandom:
If you are reading 9x03, (8x17, 5x03, 6x10), etc. as anything but "Castiel is arguably not touch- and/or sex-repulsed--he has a sex/sensual drive that can be manipulated by predators and is at least possibly amenable to some acts, but we still don't know anything about his sexual orientation yet"...
You are being allosexist and allonormative.
If you are reading 9x03 (and 9x09) as "establishing Cas as a sexual creature so attraction is a thing now" "definitely into April", "thinking with his dick" "he's hetero now" etc. when Castiel himself exhibited signs of knowing he was raped and pointed out the "sex" was part of "hedonism" and "educational" with absolutely no indication of "I wanted her so much" etc., for anything except to point out the representational slights against ace spectrum or allo queers, you are being allosexist and allonormative.
And if you're using stuff with Meg, April, Daphne, Chastity, Nora, etc. all situations in which Castiel could not freely consent, to define him as hetero or allo, you are being allosexist and allo-/heteronormative.
The only bit of evidence we have from Castiel himself of anything beyond ace/aro is Dean. Freely chosen stuff like Male Gaze, constant touching, staring, etc. are all arguable with Dean and nobody else.
P.S. If you do so while acting like Castiel's orientation changed when he became human, you are essentially admitting you believe ace!/demi!Cas is not believable when he's human, which dehumanizes us.
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Anonymous asked:

i was wondering what your tag 'dean is cas' sex donut' meant? like i'm genuinely curious as to its origin ;u;

#Long post.

It’s funny you should ask this, because I actually explained it on Twitter the other day to someone who asked, and you reminded me that I’d actually forgotten to keep a record of that conversation (including the little short story I wrote about Cas’s past interactions with donuts).

Basically, Castiel is demi(pan)sexual (he’s not grey A, not “grace”; he’s demi), and he’s sex-indifferent/at all sex-inclined demisexual (as opposed to sex-repulsed: meaning, he has a sex drive, can want and enjoy sex—though it’s low, and attraction is rare cos he doesn’t have a lot of the bonds necessary, for the most part nonexistent, which establishes that he fits into the donut metaphor), and ‘sex donut’ is using a donut to represent the only sex, i.e. [sex + person] he actually covets as opposed to the usual of allosexuals, who want many of the donuts, who crave many of the kinds of donuts (or grey A who sometimes covet the kind of donut—sometimes don’t, or ace who never really covet donuts but might eat ‘em), get what I mean?

'Dean is Cas's sex donut' is just a shorthand way for me to relate the fact that of all the people~ Castiel has ever had bonds with, Castiel has only ever shown* that he’d covet sex with Dean, that he’s attracted to Dean and sex with Dean for him is a god I want this donut it looks really delicious I just want it**versus a I don’t hate donuts guess I’ll try this one since it’s here*** or god I’m so hungry for basically any kind of food and there is a donut here on the hook of this fishing pole**** part of his sex-indifferent ace spectrum sexuality.

~Including Meg, by the way, because I don’t deny that they did, at one point, have some kind of bond, though I refuse to leave unacknowledged that it was pretty unhealthy and uneven. The way I put it is that basically the baker kept pushing the Meg donut at him “look at how much she likes you; her icing is melting for you, kid”, but he’d already taken a bite before and been like “no thank you, it’s not like it makes me sick, but I don’t really want one”.)

*via Male Gaze, “personal space” issues, inability to stop touching and staring at Dean literally always, posturing like he’ll do—and enjoy—it, for  Dean specifically [5x03, 6x10, 9x03&9], about sex repeatedly etc.; none of these things are things he does with Meg, by the way—in fact I can count maybe four times throughout the series that he actually touched her by conscious choice and two were weaponized sexuality, the other two were protectiveness she groomed him into, and unless it’s out of necessity he’s nearly always across the room.

**Dean and/or Meg, if he’d ever shown any indication of consenting to her (he wasn’t going to judging by how he dodged sexual allusions the rest of that scene and scenes before it, but if he had in 8x17, he’d still be demi and his past ‘no’s would still stand as evidence of non-attraction throughout S5-7), especially in a situation with the latter where he wasn’t being controlled by visibly recognizable abuse of disabled people to keep her happy; was not using sex the way she did—as a weapon with people he wasn’t attracted to or not; didn’t owe her; wasn’t using her for someone else’s benefit.

***Chastity—whom Dean pushed at him and he might have enjoyed but didn’t want, or Meg, if he’d ever shown any indication of it and she could be trusted not to use it to coerce more/feelings he doesn’t have, which she couldn’t. See above. ^

****Likely April, potentially Meg if he’d ever said yes during the ‘working on him’ ‘put up or shut up’ era and Daphne if it hadn’t been noted that that wasn’t a thing already. (P.S. The exploitation of that by parties with control over him because he was dependent upon their support for his health, during which he was hugely disempowered by his mental/physical states and isolated in a way that meant he likely couldn’t say no and find it elsewhere—when they knew this and used it to manipulate him—and thus his agreement to it was not free enough to be consent, makes all these scenarios rape, in the way/if they happened.)

I already have a ridiculously long tag about his orientation, so I tried to shorthand the fact that we only have concrete textual evidence of Castiel being sexually attracted to Dean, if he’s sexually attracted to anybody, despite the sheer amount of people who are attracted to him (Possibly Chastity but she was doing her job, Balthazar?..., possibly Daphne, Crowley?…, the blonde on TV in 7x01, Meg, the old lady in 8x08, Jane the Nephil, Cecily, April, Nora?… etc.), Dean included. That’s what ‘Dean is Cas’s sex donut’ means, and I appreciate this Ask a lot, because you reminded me to add that tag to the explanation post! :]

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Anonymous asked:

okay i've seen a LOT of theories on cas's gender identification and sexuality, like that he is asexual panromantic and genderfluid or that he is demisexual gray aromantic and agender. I was just wondering what you think it is for him?

Okay, I need to preface this with I am very likely cisgender. I have dysphoria and sometimes when gender I’m like “ehhhh”, but mostly I usually feel I’m cis??? So I don’t…have a lot of authority on this matter, just an opinion that’s probably got some cissexism in it somewhere cos internalization shit. Please feel free to take me to task for it.

I think—and have thought for a while—that angels (and MAYBE demons but I digress), considering how binary SPN codes them despite fandom’s best efforts, choose specific DGAB vessels out of a certain lineage (for the most part) the same way humans choose clothing or hairstyles or what have you at certain times: to pass in mortal society for how they identify. I suspect Castiel identifies as whatever the angelic equivalent of male is, so he arguably feels more comfortable in a DMAB vessel, though he will take another (like he did Claire) if he must. That doesn’t mean our equivalent of male, necessarily? He’s certainly no masculinist like Dean and Sam can be coming from Hunter culture, despite the Racist Truck People/Jenny Klein’s best efforts (ew, 9x03 and 9x09, EW).

I actually…have a tag, lol, describing exactly what I think he is. Castiel is a sex-indifferent (not -repulsed, indifferent—as in, doesn’t really care either way for the most part and can have a sex drive even if he’s not attracted), greypanromantic (with, at the very most, a b/w celibic and passionate connection [closer to celibic, lbr, and not super deep] Meg worked him into but no desire to act on it like ever?, a possible something with Daphne or Nora—not probable, but possible, and a definite—rare, romantic attraction to Dean), demipansexual (who’s clearly not at all concerned with gender, but literally’s only ever been attracted to Dean in his entire millennia of existence that we’ve seen: Dean’s his sex donut).

I went back and forth between greyromantic and demiromantic for a long time, and I’m still not 100% sure because it still looks to me with how he acts like he’s never been romantically into anybody but Dean, and likely not until he and Dean were close? But for now I’m sticking with grey because I do think it is possible that he fell for Dean right away (in the romantic sense—he chose humanity, Dean’s cause, not Dean himself, in 4x22: Dean logicked him as he didn’t in 6x20, and it meshed with Cas’s own convictions despite his abusive family’s efforts to reset him to theirs), even if the sexual attraction part took longer to show up, and I do think it’s possible he’s felt somewhere b/w vestal and romantic stuff for other people that aren’t Dean.

This isn’t to for sure say he isn’t greypanromantic asexual? Because we still have yet to see him actually initiate anything sexual. ever (that wasn’t for weaponization purposes, to use an enemy’s tactic against them, as in 5x10; and no, I don’t count the Dean clone from Zachariah’s alternate timeline in 5x04 as really anything about this Castiel) or actually end up in consensual anything, so like. I’m not calling it for sure for sure until I see how he acts if/when Castiel and Dean get to the canon romantisexual stuff on TV. Then I’ll be able to tell by the situation and all where his head’s at about wanting Dean instead of just enjoying sex with somebody he loves (but nobody else).

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Talk to Me

I was thinking about part of this, and basically (lol #long post again!).

Give me the scene from Goodbye Stranger, but without Naomi's control, without a trauma bond, with an actual bond to make that scene much less uncomfortable, much more soothingly nostalgic and revealing about character. Give me that scene, but between a demon and an angel who actually don't want to be those things, who actually are friends, who actually can reminisce about things from the past, who should, because the two of them have not shared a few things they really ought to.

Give me a scene like the one from Road Trip, but without Sam in peril.

Sam's gone to bed, Crowley's running from Dean's rage upon getting close enough to himself again to loathe him, and Dean and Castiel are up late in the dim light of the lamp, sitting in two chairs on the same side of the table, passing back and forth their second bottle of booze (of your choice). With Dean still somewhat Dean and Castiel's Grace dwindling, they can both feel it about the same.

"Crowley's a dick," Castiel starts a new topic with. They've been talking for hours, and this is a very important thing to discuss. 

"Yeah, he is." Dean says, no hesitation, and that's a relief, because a month ago it would have been much more of a struggle.

"I should've known when he suggested a civil war."

Dean blinking, surprised. "What? He did?"

Castiel nodding. "I was still the fool who agreed."

They drift through that topic, discussing Balthazar (Dean never felt threatened by him, he asserts, and Castiel doesn't know he's lying), Rachel, Raphael, and the culmination of Castiel's "corruption".

Dean coughs a bit, because booze and smoke sometimes mixes unpleasantly. "I had nightmares, after you exploded."

Castiel is quiet for a moment, and then, "Which time?"

They smirk at each other, weakly.

"The Levis, dude. Staying on topic."

Castiel makes a thoughtful sound, and then answers, confession for confession, "Oh. I had--dreams of you, too, as Emmanuel."

No sound except the slosh of the bottle, as both of them languish momentarily in memories the other can't hope to completely understand.

A sharp grin, an easy laugh, a companionable nudge of shoulders, and no name, just warmth, until he walked into Daphne's home.

Black goo, a maniacal, sadistic declaration of his best friend's death, a trench coat soaked in darkened water and crusted with blood: a frayed feeling, sinking that felt like drowning with him and never really stopped with him gone.

Desperate to change the subject, Castiel blurts, "It wasn't you I chose, Dean, I do know that now." and regrets it, warily, when Dean winces.

Dean smiles, though, voice dry. "Wow, Cas, harsher than I'd expect from you. Didn't know you had it in you."

Cas gives him a blank look. "It was humanity." 

Dean's smile fades, his ears ringing with his own voice, This is simple, Cas! "Ah, yeah. Right."

Hesitantly, unsure whether he should, Castiel adds, "At first, that is."

Dean wasn't expecting that, Castiel thinks, as his eyebrow rises abruptly.

"So when'd it change?"

Castiel's fingers clench into a fist, instinctually, remembering.

"In Lucifer's crypt."

Were Dean less demonic, he'd blush. He sure as hell can't keep eye contact, not with that out there. They haven't talked about it much since Metatron. Bygones being bygones with everything gone to shit, as usual.

"You left, though." It's mumbled, and it's been said, but Dean still isn't sure he wants Cas to hear it. 

(He does, of course. Fucking angels.)

"Family doesn't always give you a choice," Castiel quietly reminds him, and Dean stares in the direction of Sam's bedroom, picturing all the times there's been no other option but the one that hurts, that destroys, to save him.

"Got it," he says with a slow nod. 

That might've been the end of it, but it's not. Castiel's smile is sad when Dean looks at him.

"Not the whole picture, you don't. I wasn't just leaving you, Dean. I was recovering. From choosing."

Dean scoffs, but it's not whole-hearted. "C'mon, Cas, we're Team Free Will." 

And Castiel isn't wrong, when he gestures to Dean. "Our choices are not often free, Dean, look at you." 

Fair point, touché, all that, but. "Still, humanity or dicks with wings, it ain't hard."

Now Castiel won't meet his eyes, even when Dean's trying. "It is, when you're not built for it. When they can make you their marionette."

Castiel can feel the air change, but he doesn't see Dean freeze, only feels his wide-eyed stare. "So...it really wasn't you."

Without looking at him, Castiel snatches the bottle and takes a long gulp.

"No," he says, gruff, "it wasn't." He drinks even more, staring at Dean's scuffed boots on the table, wincing visibly as he speaks.

"Thousands, Dean, she made me kill thousands of you. Even then, I fought, and I wasn't allowed control of my body."

Dean's reeling. "You weren't--she didn't suggest jack shit. She made you."

Finally, Castiel looks at him, his face anguished. "And I begged her to stop. You must believe me, Dean, I wouldn't have done it, myself."

That was not in question anymore, not since Tessa and the angel army Cas gave up. Cas could've done it, then, would've been more than right to, but he hadn't. He couldn't. Monster or not, he couldn't.

Not to mention...

Dean stares off into the distance, as Cas pleads with dewy-eyed sincerity, thinking of all the times he's seen Power of Love in action, all the times he's made a face at the hero being broken out of mind control like that. His own eyes are green, and his lips tilt up involuntarily.

"So that time, you did do it all for me," he says, looking at Cas again, and Cas nods, seriously, wiping his mouth and handing back the bottle.

"And several after." No, I can't. They're both thinking it, then.

But then. And Dean wouldn't ask, not without the confidence of already being a monster. Before he turned into a black-eyed bastard, he wouldn't have ever pushed like this.

Huh. Silver lining.

"So...Meg or me, then. Say she wasn't dead. Demon versus demon, would it be all for me still?"

Cas's eyes squint, and Dean feels fond of that, of his voice, filled with confusion. It's always unnerving that he still can.

"I...Dean, what?"

He's nonchalant. "Well, you dug her smoke, right? Wanted to be her pizza man or whatever."

Cas's mouth twists. Interesting. "Not as such."

They stare at each other, and Dean tries again, "But her pretty pain, though, right?"

Castiel's stare sharpens, but he can't figure out what Dean's thinking--why he's asking. "She's no comparison," he says, firmly.

Dean rolls his eyes, waves a hand while the other lifts the bottle. "Yeah, I know, 's not like I played sexy nurse for you ever, I get it."

No matter what Dean is thinking, Castiel can't do much but glare. "Dean."

Before Dean can take a drink, Castiel grabs the bottle back and downs the last of it (at least this one). His jaw is tight, as he swallows the somewhat bitter molecules. "Have you not yet grasped this? No one. compares." 

Dean's boots clunk as his eyes go black and his body recoils, twitching too overtly for even Castiel to miss. "What do you...like how, Cas?"

Castiel licks his lips, a habit his dry mouth does not require anymore, and then just says it, no matter the consequences.

"She was my caretaker, but you are always my first choice. Heaven, angels, Meg, Nora, Daphne. No one compares."

Dean swallows, hard (though he doesn't need it either), and starts somewhat frantically opening another bottle. He regrets asking, feeling all tied up inside at Castiel's words.

Castiel can see Dean's hands shaking. "You don't have to return the sentiment, Dean. Just believe it, that's all I ask."

The bottle's open, then, finally--despite Dean forgetting they could both open it easily with their respective supernatural abilities, he managed.

He takes a long, long drink, and exhales loudly, then stops, deliberating.

(At least Castiel guesses that's what he's doing.)

"So, what about that time in Maine, then?" he asks, full of audible curiosity.

And Castiel remembers immediately. Kismet or what, buddy? "Well, since you asked--"

This goes on for the rest of the night. Neither of them have to sleep (though Castiel, in a bizarre turn of events, is closest to having to now), so when Sam wakes up and goes to pour himself orange juice, they're still there, intent, focus on nothing but their thirst for each other's truths.

It's the first time in years--in ever, likely--that one has said "Tell me how you felt about it." and the other has answered, "When? I'll tell you, as much as I know, whatever you ask." and Sam can hear the honesty.

Sam smiles, satisfied, despite all there is left to do, for the moment, and when his glass is empty, he walks quietly back to bed.

Dean's "You're kidding me, Cas, no way--" echoes, follows him down the stairs, and he chuckles, as Cas responds in kind.

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defilerwyrm

Start in the Middle (a first)

He’s gentle, you know, in his own way. It doesn’t mean there are flower petals and soft music and candlelight, no tearful declarations in the dark; but there’s a time and a place for showing off in the sack, and a guy’s first time with another dude just ain’t it.

This isn’t Dean’s first rodeo mind you but it’s been years. Not since Hell – before Hell, by his reckoning (and for the sake of sanity) – and it’s not like he’s ever done anything but hide it either – so forgive him if he’s a little unsteady even if he’d never admit as much.

Cas, though. The angel surprises him. Maybe it’s a little unfair after everything that’s happened to bear the memory of that night in Maine so close to heart (how his cheeks flushed and lips parted in his panic, the way his Adam’s apple bobbed with every desperate swallow of beer that still failed to steel him for Chastity reaching for his hand). He hasn’t asked if his (Emanuel’s) marriage to Daphne was ever actually consummated. Half of him (couldn’t handle a yes) doesn’t want to know, the other half (insists it’s different with women) doesn’t care. But he’s as comfortable in that skin as if he’d been born in it instead of inheriting it from some poor fuck of an ad salesman, as if he didn’t seem to spill out of the naked skin and fill the room with his presence, all power and confidence and light.

Yeah, the angel surprises him. Maybe he’s a little jealous of the lack of shame Cas shows: not only for what he is, but what he wants.

What he wants is Dean. In the end that’s what’s really making his head swim.

Rutting together fully-clothed like handsy teenagers would only be– well. They’ve done a bit of that, anyhow, on their way to the bed. There’s a certain elegance to the compromise offered by doing things as they are instead. Enough rolling and shoving and nipping along necks gives way to this: Cas, sprawled out and languid, shoulders braced against the mattress to let spine and hips roll; and Dean, a collection of planes and angles slotted to him from thigh to throat. Stretching one of the angel’s legs across the other forces space between them and Dean damns every inch of air touching Cas where his own skin doesn’t – even as he makes up for that loss with fingers tightening into a fist in soft, dark hair; with lips and teeth and tongue forming his friend’s name on every breath he’d otherwise waste between kisses; with the heated line of his cock sliding through the press of those thighs alongside Cas’ own erection. They crash and flow together and it’s a messy thing, real sex, sweaty and awkward and loud – he finds that holding the headboard does no good to quiet its clatter and bang and finally he gives up. All the better to hang on to Cas, Cas, to press fingers to his throat and feel the grit of his groaning, to dig into hips, to stroke his side or sweep hair off his forehead when it’s plastered down. Worry tries to gnaw at him and he denies it the satisfaction of ruining this. He’s always been a pro at denial; for once it’s worked out in his favour.

.

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So I recently found out that when Sera Gamble was still writing for Supernatural (up until the end of season 7) she reached an argument with the rest of the writing team in season 4 with the reintroduction of Ruby. Ruby’s sexual relationship with Sam was to be a part of the…

Whoa, there, righteous crusader. We need to talk about a few things before you go storming the Supernatural castle and start worshiping at the altar of Sera Gamble. Important things.

I would like to preface this by saying that I am not in any way condoning what happened with April. I, too, found the situation confusing and uncomfortable (apart from my general amusement at Cas being canonically considered a highly sought-after piece of ass), especially in the latter incident with them bringing it up over drinks, and I highly doubt anyone would be considering giving Supernatural any kind of awards for advancement in feminism. But I do think you have gone a bit too far in your accusations against the current staff, and some of your statements make assumptions that are dubious at best and just plain false at worst.

The narrative depicted in your post paints a picture of the noble Sera Gamble being the lone voice of dissent on a controversial issue and fighting for the rest of the staff to do the right thing. And if only she were still around today, this stalwart protector of Morality and Women’s Rights would have surely put a stop to this madness and saved dear Castiel and innocent April, as well as the viewing public, from this horrific experience. But the truth of the scenario is far different.

Going back to the original debate about Ruby in season 4, it is important to remember that we are going solely by Sera’s account of what happened, which naturally would paint her in the most positive light possible in comparison to her fellow staffers. Even taking her statements at face value, though, she specifically says “ I think I actually disappointed some people I work with, who thought I’d be tougher or darker or something. Or possibly just didn’t care as much as I did one way or another. ”

There are some key words to consider here. Firstly, the fact that she said “some” rather than “all” indicates that not everyone on staff reacted the same way to her objections. Likewise, the phrases “I think” and “possibly” indicate some measure of conjecture on her part as to why she thought certain people reacted—or did not react— in certain ways (the nature of which is also not specified). There very well could have been others who objected and saw the scenario as rape but didn’t make as big a deal of it for one reason or another. We also don’t know how much push back against Sera’s objection there really was or from whom it came. Of course, Sera also wrote “I Know What You Did Last Summer” herself, so the only objections that would have potentially mattered in terms of removing the scene with Ruby taking over a vegetable would have been the director’s and Kripke’s.

It is also important to note that the season 4 writing staff consisted of 4 women (not just Sera) and 6 men. Similarly, the current writing staff includes 3 women and 7 men. So,even though there are more guys on staff, it is not exactly a pure boys’ club either, which brings us back to the current situation in season 9.

9x03 and 9x09, which included the Cas/April scene and the later callback to it in the bar, were both co-written by Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming. A man and a woman, the latter being the wife of show producer and director Robert Singer. Neither of these writers was around in season 4, in fact, only two people in the entire writing staff were, so the entire argument that “there is no excuse for them to have not realized, since they should have remembered from last time” is just blatantly misconstruing the situation, particularly given your strongly-worded allegations against the entire staff as being misogynists. 

The truth is, just like we we weren’t privy to the original conversation re: Ruby, we also have no idea how the conversation went re: April. There could have been objections made that were simply ignored or overruled, given that those people were not writing the episode. Buckner and Ross-Lemming have an established history of dubcon in several of their past eps, so it doesn’t seem far-fetched to me that they would have gone ahead with this idea regardless, with an added degree of protection from Eugenie being married to the bossman. Meanwhile, Robbie Thompson gave us a lovely heroine in Charlie. Adam Glass gave us Krissy and Abaddon/Josie Sands. And even the most cursory glance at Robert Berens’s twitter feed shows that he has a very informed and passionate view on gender issues in media.

But, frankly, the average person really doesn’t think about the individuals being possessed in these scenarios, as evidenced by the literally hundreds of people Sam, Dean, and Cas have murdered over the years without care or consequence. 

I considered leaving the issue well enough alone, until I saw your tags (copied here for the benefit of others):

The level of condescension here, not only toward the writing staff, but to other viewers is honestly disturbing and offensive, not to mention hypocritical, coming from someone who just complained about a reporter’s dismissal of fan debates. I’ve already covered the reasons why I find the hate towards the entire staff to be unwarranted, but what bothers me even more than that is the unmitigated praise of Sera Gamble purely on the grounds of one writing decision she made on one episode five years ago to the extent of shrugging off the myriad issues that viewers had with seasons 6 and 7. These were not “small choices” that people blew up into a big deal; here were major problems in terms of both general storytelling/writing issues and moral issues that made many people depressed and uncomfortable when watching, including, but not limited to:

  • Killing off the entire support cast/treating all side characters as unimportant/expendable
  • Inconsistent/unlikable portrayal of Lisa as a potential love interest, prior to writing her out entirely
  • The mannequin episode
  • Leaving Adam in the cage
  • Dr. Visyak (Edit: including her past relationship with Bobby without confirmation of her vessel being soulless--in fact p. much confirmation of the opposite)
  • The abrupt corruption of Castiel, followed by his anti-climactic removal from the show
  • Retconning Bobby’s history to include killing his own father
  • Daphne finding and marrying an amnesiac Castiel within a matter of months without making any efforts to discover his real identity
  • The whitewashing of Meg/Megstiel as a canon ship (which, ftr, has just as many consent issues as April/Cas, but has tons of fan support)
  • Becky abducting and magically drugging Sam into being her husband, while keeping him captive in her apartment, for the sake of showing him off as a trophy for her class reunion
  • Dean being used for procreation by an Amazon, only to have their resulting daughter be killed. BY HER OWN UNCLE SAM for no other reason than “she’s a monster” and that Dean killed Amy when Sam didn’t want him too and then having Dean make jokes about how he’s swearing off women in the very next episode, even though this should have been fairly traumatic for any normal person (Edit: aka a laughed off heterosexist normalized rape written oh so surprisingly by Buckner and Ross-Leming)
  • Treating mental illness as a non-issue/something to be made fun of
  • Kevin portrayed as an extremely stereotypical Asian high schooler
  • etc

So, please, do not even try to tell me that Sera Gamble was not problematic as hell as a showrunner or, even, as a writer and that we all should just completely forget and forgive the horrible things that went on during those seasons, as if they were trivial and meaningless quibbles. Because I know I sure as hell haven’t forgotten any of it. And if you seriously think that Sera still being in charge would have yielded us better results in season 9, I present all of the above as evidence to the contrary. 

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