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#charlie is a lesbian – @selfihateyouithink on Tumblr
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round and round the winchesters go

@selfihateyouithink / selfihateyouithink.tumblr.com

I am an Angel of the Lord who probably would do well in finance, and I don't like to do what people expect. Thirty-four. White USian. Autistic, anxious depressive (with PTSD). Nonbinary/genderqueer (demigirl). She/they pronouns. Sex-indifferent pan gay greyromantic demisexual. INFP/ISFP. Survivor. Socialist. Feminist. Relativist. Agnostic atheist. Struggling college student (yes, still). Honest misanthrope (because humans are works of art but humanity is tainted by its hatreds, conceits, and deceits), almost never neutral (because the status quo isn't), and unapologetic slasher 'til death do I stop. I am things, I question things, I like things, I hate things, I watch things, I read things, I write things, I say things, I do things. Things happen on this blog.
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“Let me tell you about you… a difficult and lonely childhood. Tragedy, absent parents. Always outside the mainstream. Sexually progressive. Living in your own head for solace and direction. I read you the minute I saw you. And I’m sure you’re learning that the libe between good and evil is quite flexible.”

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Anonymous asked:

So I realized the only queer representation the show has had is Charlie (unless you count that gay couple who cosplayed Sam and Dean). And it's totally fine for Charlie, a white, feminine, lesbian to kiss a girl but queer representation for males??? Bi Dean????? Something that isn't sexualized exclusively for the male gaze???? Whaaattt. Impossible. Fucking queerbaiting man. Like can someone just tweet the writers or something and be like yo guys wtf.

actually my issue with charlie isn’t that she’s sexualized for the male gaze bc literally there was only one time where she made out with a hot chick for like two seconds (and one time i watched an episode with my roommate’s boyfriend and he kept going on and on about how hot charlie is and when i said something about her being a lesbian he laughed and was like “i totally forgot she was gay” but i digress).

no, setting aside the fact that bob singer brutally murdered her for no reason, my main issue with charlie is that she’s a male nerd’s fantasy (sorry, robbie thompson). she’s gorgeous and socially competent and smart and funny and tech savvy, and she enjoys things like video games and lord of the rings and LARPing….which are all sanctioned by male nerd culture. charlie’s like an “approved” nerd by male nerd standards, and her geekiness is particularly “cool.” i’m basically just quoting this article right here that everyone should definitely read.

this is why i will not be counted among the queer fans who claim “charlie is me.” charlie is pointedly not me. i dress in ratty clothes and write fan fiction and run a blog about dudes making out with each other. i stay in more often than i go out, i go on an angry feminist rant at least once a day, sometimes i watch golf or upholster furniture. male nerd culture would probably reject me pretty fast tbh.

don’t get me wrong, i love charlie bradbury. it’s not necessarily ~bad~ that she’s the stuff of joss whedon’s wet dreams. but i am /not/ charlie bradbury. so the fact that she was soopernatraul’s only queer representation left me feeling a bit lonely. having ONE queer person represent ALL queer people on your show is….unrealistic. 

charlie bradbury is not me. she’s not some pinnacle of all of us fans combined or some representation of all queer lady fans. we deserve more than just charlie bradbury, and frankly, charlie bradbury deserved a whole lot more herself. that’s my issue with charlie.

(and, u know, there IS a character on soopernutritional who is me, but the chances of him ever coming out as bi are looking slimmer and slimmer by the minute.)

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#Long post.

First: No, anon, Demian and Barnes don’t count. Charlie is the only recurring queer character in the series.

Second:

All I’m hearing is ‘blah blah egocentrism blah blah internalized misogyny blah blah I didn’t actually watch Charlie’s episodes’. And if the ‘character who is you’ is Dean, then the leg you have to stand on here just crumpled to dust, because there are few people who are more of a male nerd fantasy than Dean ‘Pit Stop at Mount Doom?’ Winchester.

(Disclaimer: Charlie could have been several things to break the mold more, like less conventionally attractive, marginally lazier? idk, even more overtly feminist in a way that interrogated SPN a bit more, a woman of color.)

But uh, this is a mountain of wow. Cos like.

Yeah, Charlie enjoys some things dudes notoriously enjoy, and some dudes like that (as opposed to using it as just another manner of sexist gatekeeping).

She also enjoys things like Robyn. And reproductive rights functions. And Harry Potter (and ships Hermione with someone who’s not Ron). SHE READS FAN FIC. She sings when she’s nervous, and…socially competent? Really? She babbles when she tries to flirt with the security guard, who she can barely flirt with at all, because he’s “not a girl”, and she just goes “But…~FBI~” when their plan starts to fail because the lady coroner’s the monster. She says things like, “That’s what they get for the sexist name.” and “Hey, [Nice Guy]? I’m the one who saves damsels in distress around here.” (ala Storyteller, from Buffy S7). Her hero is Hermione Granger, not any of the dudes from the dude-approved stuff you so revile her liking. She got on a watchlist for illegally open-sourcing a video game: bet #GG would love that, right.

(If that article is rehashing your points here, then fuck that article. Sexist bull.) So Charlie’s not you cos Dean’s you, whatthefuckever. She’s still a lot of nerdy (autistic) queer women, like my babe dubiousculturalartifact for instance, and you’re kinda being a selfish ass by acting like cos some dudes do like her, she’s made for dudes. Who are you to get on a soapbox of internalized ‘not like other girls’ crap and say “she’s not at all us cos she’s not me“ and then turn around and say her much more masculinist literal male fantasy counterpart is you.

I won’t disagree with you, by a longshot, when it comes to “she made me feel lonely” and “one queer character is unrealistic”. That’s extremely accurate and part of why people thirst so much for Dean and Cas to be textualized. QUEER PEOPLE WITH ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIPS AND ALSO QUEER FRIENDS!!

But if your thoughts on Charlie before 10x21 amount to “We deserved better than this Male Fantasy®” then you really have another, less sexist, think coming.

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I see your false equivalency.

Furthermore, on the note of this post:

Yesterday, an interviewer in a national publication essentially suggested Charlie Bradbury, the only recurring queer character on the show, should convert, by saying they ship this lesbian with a male character, Castiel.

This interviewer then decontextualized the joking "heh yeah” of an actor the queer community trusts--for the most part, and erased his disagreement, his then adding no, Charlie wouldn’t, and by extension, she shouldn’t.

That left much of the queer community feeling very upset and abandoned by someone we trust. We felt alone again, isolated, distanced from someone we value as an idol and a person. Some of us were compelled to wonder if he even cared about us after all, and it made us a little aggressive, asking him.

The relief that swept through many of us was palpable, when he confirmed our trust was not misplaced, because no, he does not agree Charlie should convert.

Yet, people are, as we speak, talking about how they’d like to convert Charlie, to ship her with Castiel, following the oppressive, erasive institutional lead, in order to void both a single queer character and a queerbaited pairing being romanticized in subtext for several seasons. They see no problem with this.

They are then comparing this to the phenomenon of people shipping Dean with Castiel--of calling for the queerbaiting of this ship to cease with a textual resolution that allows these characters to stop repressing for the sake of institutional heterosexism, claiming that Charlie is repressing being straight, as though that is ever a thing. As though therapy exists to convert straight people.

To this I say:

Note how our queering Dean did not commence in a manner with institutional strength behind it. Note how “straight-washing” happens on a hugely powerful, publicized, socially acceptable and even societally condoned scale. Note that straight people are oppressing queer people, and erasing us, and our allies, is part of that--part of the way they isolate us and make us feel unwanted so we will, as mentioned, convert. Note how that’s the difference, the stark difference; most rebellions against that oppression, any facet of it, are never equal to it.

Note how people who compare these with any seriousness are full of shit, and every time they ignore that conversion therapy goes beyond the therapist’s office, that it’s a society-wide thing that includes homophobic propagandizing via media representation (to which queer people show the finger, by demanding ‘baiting result in text), they’re on the side of conversion therapists. And if you agree with them, you’re walking that line too.

Note this, please.

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neraiutsuze

so 

wait

lemme get this straight

spn brought back an interesting female side character with a rich inner life and backstory that doesn’t involve the winchesters

and not only didn’t kill her off, but gave her a same-sex love interest

and then not only let them make-out on screen (without even framing it like sexual fanservice for the male viewers) but did not make that love interest evil or have her die

and let that female side character drive most of the plot and even save the day in large part on her own

who are you and what did you do with my show

Oh man, not even to mention all the UNAPOLOGETIC NERDING OUT DEAN DID, AND MOST OF THE NERDS HAVING STEADY JOBS AND RELATIONSHIPS AND STUFF. AND ALL THE WOMEN WHO WERE SO FLAWLESS. AND DEAN LOOKING AT CHARLIE AND GILDA NOT WITH HNNGH LESBIANS BUT INSTEAD WITH KIND OF WISTFUL LONGING BECAUSE HE WANTS THAT. AND THE MEDIEVAL NICE GUY GETTING SERVED. UGH IT WAS SO GOOD.

IT WAS THE BEST, I'M ALMOST IN TEARS. PRAISE BE.

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neraiutsuze

until spn proves me wrong i’m going to choose to believe that making dean’s new little sister figure a lesbian and having her have an on-screen kiss and fleeting romance that while not ending happily at least didn’t end in a death is all just testing the waters with the audience for making dean accept his bisexuality and get together with cas by using the slightly more socially accepted homosexual gender as a safety trial

you won’t convince me otherwise damnit

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flutiebear

"Yay! Finally, there's an openly queer character on Supernatural!"

omfg stop it

Charlie is not the first openly queer character on SPN

Don’t you remember:

Lily of the Psychic Children:

The Ghostfacers’ Alan Corbett (and how heavily it was implied that Ed Zeddmore reciprocated Corbett’s crush): 

LARPers Demian and Barnes:

Sue, from “Shut Up, Dr. Phil”:

The bisexual siren from “Sex and Violence”:

Oh and speaking of implied romance, it’s also HEAVILY implied that Ruby and Tammi were involved in Hell (Tammi even calls her “love” at one point, and while straddling Ruby, she says something akin to, “Hey, remember last time we were like this?”):

Don’t forget, Crowley is an equal opportunity buggerer (in fact, now that I think about it, we’ve only EVER seen him make deals with men):

And while I’m at it, anybody remember this on-screen same-sex kiss in “Live Free or Twihard”?

Or that Sue Ellen killed a gay guy in “Faith”?

Or that The Chief’s clientele included men?

I’m sure I’m forgetting a ton of other examples too; these are just the ones that come off the top of my head.

Like I said in a previous post: Charlie’s awesome, not denying that. And her romance with the Faerie was the first time I think that a queer romance had gotten so much center-stage attention on the show, which is definitely something to cheer. Plus, of course, Charlie lived, which obviously puts her ahead of most of the people on this list — or, let’s be real, any list of Supernatural side characters you can devise.

But c’mon, give Supernatural some credit where credit is due. Almost from the very beginning, the writers have had openly queer characters in key plot roles AND bit parts. Maybe Charlie’s the first one you’ve liked, or the first one you remember, but she’s definitely not the ONLY one this show has ever had.

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