Because...Plot!

Watched the thursday and friday scenes....

wow...riveting.

That punch Aaron took was pathetic and in no way possible could have caused his lung to collapse.

Also I felt like there was a complete lack of tension with...literally everything.

Any time John spouts off medical terms, it just sounds so ridiculous I can't even take it.

And if that's all we're getting with respect to resolution to the whole Robert/Seb thing then yeah...that was even more pathetic than the Ben version. How do they continue to get worse at telling the same story? Haha

I mean I couldn't even take Aaron moaning to Chas about pushing people away seriously because nothing with John has any sort of depth to it whatsoever. It's all just so empty.

I also don't know what we were meant to take from that whole John/Swirling informant scene. I'm sure it will just be used for half an episode of cheap drama in like three weeks or something nonsensical like that. This whole boxing story has been very silly from the bits I've watched of it.

I mean conceptually, I think it's downright ridiculous, but if I accept it for what it is, there's still the possibility of a halfway decent story there. It's just not the one they're telling. Haha.

The decent version of this story, that doesn't involve a Robert return, still has to involve Aaron finally dealing with his Robert feelings and truly moving on. And John has to not be so fucking weird about it. I mean there can definitely be conflict of him thinking Aaron's not over Robert (cause he's not) but if they actually showed them connecting on screen and having things in common and having conversations, about Robert about each other, there is a way forward.

It's just that they're doing none of those things.

I feel like the better version of this story would have been Aaron finding out that John is Robert's brother and struggling with that for real and trying to give him a wide berth. Meanwhile, John would have been less awful to everyone and have been genuinely interested in learning about his roots and the Sugdens, including Robert. And he could have reached out to Aaron and told him he understands why he's not interested and Aaron could be like "I'm not not interested, it's just weird." And then they could take things slow and get to know each other. Maybe that's not dramatic enough but it would be a real story and they could throw in some other kinds of curve balls like actually using his army trauma for relationship fodder rather than with Vic, which is still so strange to me.

There are ways to do it that actually honor the characters but they're not doing that. And yeah even if they magically started doing it, they have already let it go on for too long without any of that and the lack of chemistry is very noticeable.

See I feel like I'm one of the more open minded people when it comes to Aaron moving on. I fully accept that it's going to happen and frankly needs to happen if they're never luring Ryan back. It's just that both times they've tried to do it in the last five years, it's been such an insane attempt that I just don't know what they're thinking.

The Ben story was literally terrible and even Ben fans had to admit that in the end. And there was no reason at that point in his life, they needed to revisit that part of Aaron's past and have him date someone he used to bully.

And the John story is equally insane with it being Robert's long lost gay half brother. Because if the story doesn't involve bringing Robert back, then why does he need to be directly related to Robert.

Not to mention they've been together for three months and this was the first week they even attempted to speak to each other about anything real and even that was only barely. And they hardly get screen time together as it is and even then it's mostly just leading up to sex or this dumb boxing story or that weird watch stealing story that happened for no reason.

So yeah...I don't what could be "better than what we want to admit". Better than what exactly? haha

Decided to catch up on the Aaron scenes from the past couple weeks (aside from today's)...

It was nice to hear Aaron talk about Seb and mention Robert.

It also does feel like a very meta plotdale kind of thing when Aaron's there going "Ah yes...remember when my life made sense and I was a real character". Because it's like the producers remember too but can't seem to figure out a way to flesh out his character again with new things for some insane reason (again it's not that hard).

And John...yeah...he's just so dull. I don't know that I was really getting sinister vibes from him. He's more just so boring and badly written. Just the whole "we don't do that" about like "having an actual conversation with the person you're allegedly dating that's not just about illegal boxing or a prelude to sex" is so ridiculous. It's been 3 fucking months. Why have they not had any kind of real conversation about anything? Why has he not asked about Robert before. That's literally your half brother and he was literally married to your current situationship...twice. Like what do you mean you didn't know it was so deep??

I just don't understand the reason for this story being so weird and so bad. Because no matter what story they're telling here, there's no need for it to be like this.

If it's just a straightforward story, then they need to make it a lot more convincing that they actually like each other and they should have already had at least some kind of conversation about Robert due to the situation they created by bringing in his long lost gay half brother and putting him with Aaron. Even if they were waiting for Ross to come back to bring up the Seb thing. Robert should have been discussed at least a little. And they should have been shown to at least talk about other things or have a single thing in common. Aaron saying he wants this to work....like...why?!? Also, I'm still completely baffled that the whole stupid Aiden Moore thing was used as a bonding moment for him and Vic and not him and Aaron. That was right there and they didn't use it. Does Aaron even know about that? Is it relevant? I'm so confused. And where do they even go from here if they are just meant to be a couple?

And then if this is all leading to Robert coming back then it's still super weird. I would think they'd want Aaron to be properly moving on, for their relationship to actually be something even if it's not what he had with Robert. I feel like the trope is, have Aaron get serious with someone new and then bring back his soul mate and let chaos ensue. But that's not what they're doing. It's just...strange...and empty. Because what's the story if Robert does come back? Aaron forces himself stubbornly to stay with John and tries to resist Robert and fails? While Robert deals with post prison trauma and getting Seb back and thinking he doesn't deserve Aaron? I mean...sure...fine but again, I feel like the Aaron/John relationship should be at least at Dr Alex levels and it's not even at that. And what is the dynamic meant to be between John and Robert? I don't know. Is it going to be Andy/Rob 2.0 or a flipped version of that? I just don't have a read on that at all if that's where they're going because John is still such an empty character.

And then if there is a sinister side to John, if we are heading into future serial killer or stolen identity stalker territory here then....I don't feel like they're really telling that story either. Because I feel like there should be a slightly more concrete hint right now rather than people just wondering why their relationship is so empty or wondering if Nate's exit really was that bad or if there might be something more to it.

I don't know...there's just no real excuse for the "story" and I use that term very loosely here...to be what it is.

Would it have been a better ending for him to get killed off? Or to break up with his soulmate and just peace out never to be heard from again for some new opportunity or a fresh start? Or were you one of the advocates for the fake death or on the run alone endings?

I'll always defend the prison ending. Sure it sucks that he's in prison. I don't like it either. I'm also a Robert apologist so I think he's never done a thing wrong in his life. But realistically he has, even if killing Lee wasn't really one of them. Still, a Robert that took responsibility for his actions and sort of did the honorable self sacrificing thing in the end, is a good growth ending for a legacy character. And it allowed for a forced ending for a beloved ship that wasn't through death or a real break up. And it gives reason why Robert can't just come back for at least another 9 years. That still seems like a pretty decent ending to me.

I think we've already discussed how the current producers are bad at their jobs...Iain really wasn't that much better. Other than doing well with the big spectacles.

I mean I do think they sort of needed that break up. They never really dealt with all of their issues from the affair era and Aaron would realistically be having a hard time post Gordon and their individual insecurities just did aggravate each others in a beautifully messy way so really, they were always going to need to take some time and figure themselves out before they could be good for each other. Did it have to include a cheating story and a baby? No. But I'm still not mad at break up era in general.

Hello and welcome to Plotdale, everything's convoluted and the characters don't matter. Haha

That definitely seems like somewhat of the case and while obviously it was peak Emmerdale for me and for much of the fandom, it's not like they don't have....options.

If they stopped using their terrible crutch of creating convoluted backstories for new characters as a short cut to actual on screen development and stopped just shoving couples together with no consideration or proper story, they might actually get somewhere with some of their pairings.

I mean first of all, if they wanted to, it's not THAT hard to allow Aaron to properly move on into a solid new relationship. They just need to stop going through so much weird effort to create the absolute worst character for him to date and then not bothering to find an actor that actually works well with Danny. Like there was no reason for him to date someone he bullied as a kid. There was no reason for him to date Robert's long lost gay half brother. You have to work to be that bad.

All they need to do is bring in a new character that's not connected to Aaron, let him be a real character first and then let him interact with Aaron and build something from there. Sure, the diehard Robron fans are never going to be on board and that's fine, you're not trying to reach them. You want the people who love Aaron, the people who enjoyed Robron but are still watching the show and want to see Aaron do...something and have a decent story. You want the people that missed the robron era but are still looking for queer representation or just a good ship in general. You can tell a story for those people but you have to actually tell a decent story. And thus far they absolutely have not but it just isn't that hard.

And while yes, they've refused to let Aaron fully move on from Robert because they like using it for hype, they probably could have one more shot at doing it properly without all of this carrot dangling weirdness that never gets fulfilled. They could just let him say he's always going to love Robert but he has to move on and live his life but have him say it in the context of a new relationship. And then you're done, you can move on. Not that hard.

In terms of hype for new relationships though, it doesn't have to be with Aaron. They've had so many opportunities to build new couples and they just fail every time.

Seemingly, they could put Vanity back together at this point. I did see someone somewhere say something about Emma wanting to take a year off so I don't know maybe they're using Ross to break up her and Mack so she can take a break. Who knows. But if not, then there's just no reason they shouldn't have put Vanessa and Charity back together after Charity broke up with Mack after all of the Chloe stuff.

And if not them, Mary and Suzy were right there. People were interested in that. And they just...didn't do it. And stuck Suzy back with Vanessa and then have done absolutely nothing with them.

And then if we go back further, people were super excited for Arthur and Marshall and they just squandered all of that potential by making the story all about Laurel. That was so strange.

But now they've got Arthur back and he doesn't have to go disappear for exams anymore. They could tell a proper relationship story for him.

They had Nicky and Suni and there was interest there and yet they did so much nothing with them that the actors just got bored and left.

It was the same story with Marcus and Ethan.

And if we circle back to Aaron, as much as I know people who would hate it, there's genuine interest in a Mack/Aaron fling relationship. They didn't plan it but people were shipping it, they still do. If they actually bothered to pay attention to public opinion even a little, they might see that pairing as a worthwhile avenue.

And it's not just the queer couples. As much as everyone has hated Chas for years now, people seem genuinely interested in her and Liam getting together but they keep ruining it with Ella who to me is a waste of a character and if they ever do properly get them together, it will probably have taken too long and people won't care anymore.

Sure they can't listen to every viewer or every complaint etc, but if they want to get people excited for a couple, they have to listen to what they want.

They also have to actually learn how to tell a coherent relationship story and that includes showing why they actually like each other. That includes showing them interacting and building that interest they have for each other. They can't just shove people together, explain their connection through convoluted backstory and let all of their relationship development happen off screen and expect people to get excited.

Sigh...

I don't totally disagree but they don't do proper stories with the 10 year olds either. Hell they barely do proper stories with the teens.

So bringing Seb back at all before he's in his twenties would require these producers to actually tell a child based story and let that kid be on screen regardless of his age. They need to do something like they did with April back in the day.

I mean in general, I feel like they need to let these kids be around more so they aren't such blank slate nothing characters when they do reach story age.

I think the main take away here continues to be that these people are just bad at their jobs.

I mean I get that they want us talking because they love nothing more than generating buzz and hype and this is getting us talking. It’s just that they also kind of fail to deliver every time. And it’s not just with the Robert and Seb of it all that they disappoint. Just look at the Tina nonsense. Or what they did to Rishi.

So all of this that has got everyone worked up again is seemingly just a repeat of what they did with Luke and Robert’s maybe appeal and Aaron moving on with Ben. And it didn’t work then and it doesn’t particularly work now either.

And I feel like the biggest reason it doesn’t work is because none of what they’re doing is actually necessary to achieve what are seemingly their goals.

The only thing it does is get people talking for a few days and lets the soap mags use Robert’s picture to get clicks again. And like that’s a goal too I suppose and it does give them a few episodes worth of ultimately empty drama but then they also just piss people off again. But they’ve also never truly cared about their viewer’s feelings either so 🤷🏻‍♀️

With the Ben situation, they went out of their way to provide a loophole for Robert to appeal and get out of prison early. Yes it provided an exit for Luke but none of that was actually necessary to make him leave. The sexuality retcon would have been enough or like literally just a random break up with Vic because he was such a nothing of a character who cared if he stuck around anyway.

But no, instead they had to dangle the possibility of Robert getting out of prison early in front of us and Aaron just to squeeze out some drama for Aaron and Ben and have Aaron ultimately choose Ben, which felt very silly all things considered even if we were supposed to take it at face value and then they gave us and off screen Robert telling Vic he didn’t want to try and appeal anyway because they didn’t have Ryan coming back so there was no point.

But there was no reason Aaron couldn’t have just struggled to move on from Robert with Ben on his own when they first started (badly) attempting to date. Like when the divorce was finalized. If they’d just had him deal with those feelings and have talks with Vic about moving on and feeling guilty because of Robert and actually talked to Ben about this too, that’s still potentially several episodes of drama and makes a whole lot more sense too and doesn’t throw any characters under the bus. Like sure, Robert’s in prison for another thirteen years at this point, Aaron does realistically need to move on and it is what Robert wanted for him. It’s just that this is the first time Aaron is confronted with that possibility. He’s allowed to have a hard time and there was plenty of character based drama there without inventing convoluted loopholes for Robert getting out of prison early and getting people’s hopes up only to do nothing with it.

It becomes just a frustrating short cut of a storytelling device that actively makes the story worse because when you compare Aaron’s wealth of feelings for Robert against the nothing he had going on with Ben, Aaron making a statement that he would “still choose Ben even if Robert showed up tomorrow” is absolutely absurd. And actually undermines the relationship they’re trying to build between Aaron and Ben.

This with Seb and Ross and John and Robert all feels like the exact same play from the proverbial playbook.

This time they’ve gone out of their way to make Seb coming back entirely possible. They’ve killed Rebecca off screen and with no previously known relatives of Rebecca’s, he really should have come to Vic but that’s not their goal.

They just want a few days of drama, a reason for Ross to be angry and bitter for his return and to give Aaron reason to talk about Robert again.

But in my opinion, they could have achieved all of that without dangling the very real possibility of a Seb return in front of us.

They could have just had Ross and Rebecca have a bad break up off screen. She could have denied him access to Seb and run off. That’s plenty for him to be angry about.

And Ross being back and talking about Seb at all is enough to bring up those feelings for Aaron and trigger a talk with John about it all.

Now, like with Ben, there’s absolutely no reason why Aaron couldn’t have the Robert talk with John without all of that considering that they also went out of their way to make John the long lost gay half brother of Robert, which is it’s own level of unnecessary absurdity.

And in fact it would have made far more sense for them to have had this talk like you know months ago when Aaron first learned who John was. But instead they decided that those two were just never going to have a real conversation about literally anything and that John, the man rebuilding the Sugden family, was just not going to be curious about the Sugdens at all and definitely not the brother that was literally the ex husband of the man he was sleeping with. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️It’s just even more absurd than the Ben thing, which takes so much effort. Haha.

So instead they dangle the Seb carrot and go out of their way to force a conversation that should have already happened just so Aaron can once again “move on” from Robert into a new relationship.

But it’s so much sillier this time because the relationship between Aaron and John is even more pathetic than the Ben one when stacked up next to both what Robron had and what Aaron still feels for Robert all these years later. And because this is literally the third boyfriend he’s has post Robert.

I mean don’t get me wrong, I love that Aaron still has this wealth of feeling for Robert all these years later and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with him still loving him while moving on but he should have dealt with these feelings already but because the stories where he does are so ridiculous, it never feels like he genuinely does and so here we are again.

And I know it’s because they like having those short cuts in storytelling, they like being able to use Robert to get us talking but it’s so infuriating every time because all of that just makes the story worse every time and it’s baffling that they can’t see that.

The specter of the still very alive Robert Sugden is still haunting the narrative five years later on this Halloween because well…they can and it’s easy.

And once again you have a Robert from prison making decisions that will shut down the story as fast as it began because even though all signs point to something happening, it’s not.

And as absurd as it was for Robert not to even try to appeal back then, this is even more ridiculous that Robert wouldn’t want Seb to live with Aaron and his sister. At least with Vic. I mean I suppose you could claim that he doesn’t want to risk disrupting Aaron’s life after he made his sacrifice but this is his son we’re talking about. But fine, this retconned Aunt has a relationship with Seb and she’s probably stable since she’s not an on screen soap character. He probably is better off.

But the story isn’t.

And that’s the thing with this one that annoys me more. Sure, maybe they don’t want to hire a seven year old (though how expensive is a seven year old?) but there’s also nothing really stopping them from doing that. It’s not like trying to get Ryan to come back. This is something they can actually do and it would help Aaron’s character so much as I outlined yesterday and help rebuild the Sugdens. Once again they’ve gone out of their way to build a convoluted story that makes this possible but they’re not going to do it even though this time it would be so easy.

So again, I’m just back to these people being terrible at their jobs. And once again realizing just how much they don’t care about their characters.

Eh, they should have killed her on screen but they were cowards. Haha.

I mean I hear what you're saying and in the case of the Spencers, it was very unnecessary, especially the Ali thing because that just facilitated the nonsensical Daz is Amelia's Dad plot which was entirely pointless and terrible. It really didn't serve the characters.

I this case, if they actually do give Seb to Aaron, then I think it was worth while for the characters currently on screen. If they disappoint me as they always do and nothing comes of it, then yeah, it was pretty pointless and they shouldn't have done it.

However, regardless, I did kind of get a petty satisfaction out of her finally getting killed off. I'll own that.

I mean Chas drives me as crazy as the next person but I don't feel like you can really blame her for that. Seb hasn't been a part of the show. And Diane had one line and then never mentioned him again.

It was a product of shifting storylines and characters no longer being on screen. I'm pretty sure when Seb was living with Aaron and Aaron was married to Robert, she did in fact see him as her grandson just fine. But they're just not realistically going to still have Chas referring to Seb as her grandson when Aaron's not married to his father and hasn't even seen him in 5 years.

But if they brought Seb back and Aaron did raise him again, I'm pretty sure Chas would be perfectly happy to call him grandson again.

Well if Ross and Rebecca were already broken up when she died (so I ready, I haven't watched yet), then that could be a reason.

But honestly, who cares about Ross, especially if he's not sticking around long term. If they want Aaron to raise him for story purposes, they can do whatever the hell they want.

I feel like Vic would get him first perhaps, being blood related, and then Aaron could work to get custody.

Reasons why they should bring Seb back

Now that they’ve gone through the trouble of killing Rebecca off screen (hooray! It’s about time!), it seems only logical that they would do the right thing and bring Seb back, which means I have absolutely zero confidence in them doing so. But here’s my list of why they really really should, as I have been advocating for years now.

Section 1: It would break Aaron out of character growth jail. Since Robert went to prison, Aaron has lost so much. He’s lost a husband and a sister. He lost being a married man, owning his own home and owning his own business. And one of the most important growth things he lost was being a father. He’d already lost Seb and Ryan leaving wrecked the surrogacy story. So bringing Seb back would:

1. Allow Aaron to fulfill the dream he had of being a father and having a family. So many characters just get handed unwanted children but Aaron actually wanted to be a dad and so of course he lost out on that. Giving him Seb would allow him to realize that goal again.

2. Allow Aaron to grow up again. Since his return, he’s been angry, mean, adrift, committing petty crime again for no reason. Seb being back would give him purpose and a reason to clean up his act. It would allow him to get to be an adult again, something the character sorely needs.

3. Allow Aaron to have screen time and positive story. Aaron has been off screen a lot, so much so that all of his current relationship story development has taken place almost entirely off screen. Seb being back would give Aaron an actual story to play out, especially if there were difficulties in getting formal custody. It’s also a story that would have a happy outcome, once he gets custody, which is something the show could really use right now in the midst of all of the depressing terrible stories. And Aaron has always had such a miserable time on the show so I feel like people would root for something good to happen to him.

4. Allow Aaron to have new kinds of stories. Single Dad Aaron opens up so man new possibilities for him, being able to take on a parental role, having to think about Seb’s needs and not just his own.

5. Allow Aaron to have a full circle moment looking after a troubled kid the way Paddy looked after him.

6. Allow Aaron to interact with new characters. Single Dad Aaron would have more opportunity to interact with the other parents in the village. It might give him more reason to have a proper friendship with Billy for example aside from silly illegal boxing stories. It puts him into new circles, which can open him up for new possibilities.

Section 2: Seb gives Aaron a permanent tie to Robert. For whatever reason, the powers that be seem unwilling to let Aaron fully move on from Robert (that’s another whole post I want to write) but this would give them real reason for Robert to be a constant presence in Aaron’s life without it seeming weird or needing Ryan back. It allows him to never fully move on. The Seb/Robert connection:

1. Allows Aaron to keep Robert in his heart through Seb. He can bring him up with Seb, helping his son love his father and making sure he knows who he was/is.

2. Allows Aaron to maybe hear from Robert from time to time. Robert might have to consent to Aaron being the one to have custody of Seb and Robert wanting that, would be a nice signal to Aaron to that Robert still loves him and trusts him.

3. Allows Aaron to maybe finally deal with some of his Robert feelings in a more productive way, in a more positive way. And because he’s raising his kid, in a way that perhaps even his mother could understand and allow.

4. Allows Aaron to bring Robert up in any new relationship, not just because the show makes him accidentally sleep with Robert’s long lost gay half brother. He needs to consider Seb’s feelings in any new relationship and part of that can be whether Robert would approve of said new man in his son’s life.

5. Allows for an even more interesting return story should they ever actually coax Ryan Hawley back.

Section 3: Bringing Seb back can be a part of rebuilding the Sugdens. Obviously that was a line they used in reference to bringing John in and we’ve seen what a joke that has been. However, Seb:

1. Is the son of the ultimate Emmerdale Sugden legacy character, Robert. And he’s not retconned in the way John is. He’s someone people can watch grow up and continue the family legacy, especially if they go the full mile and give him his proper name.

2. Allows them to bring Aaron more into the Sugden family. While, yes, Seb would probably get lumped into the Dingles at times because of Aaron, Aaron can also get brought into Sugden family time, such as it is.

3. Allows them to give Vic and Harry more screen time, and use Vic’s obsessive family tendencies to get Seb back, giving her something positive to do instead of just being annoying. It maybe lets Harry become more of an actual character if he has a cousin with story potential.

4. Gives the Sugdens, such as they are, someone to rally around in general.

5. Is actually related to people like the Merricks, unlike Vic, if they wanted to explore that connection as well.

Section 4: Bringing Seb back is the perfect opportunity to use the fact that Danny is good with the kids.

1. Danny is great with the kids on screen and off and the kids seem to love him back.

2. It would be a better way to use some of his more cringe humor.

3. If they actually cast a good kid actor that Danny can play off of well, they could be such a fun little duo.

Section 5: There’s no reason not to do it. There’s nothing stopping them other than their own inability to tell a good or even mediocre story.

1. They’ve already gone through the trouble of killing Rebecca off. What was the point of that if they’re not going to bring Seb back. They’ve already done half the work.

2. It’s not contingent on getting an actor like Ryan back. They can literally cast any red headed or blonde child for the role (hopefully a good one but I digress…)

So in conclusion: BRING SEB HOME!