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#persuasion – @sarahthecoat on Tumblr
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SarahTheCoat

@sarahthecoat

mostly Sherlock. The New Semester my dreamwidth
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Broke: 'Persuasion' is referenced in 'Good Omens' because it's about a girl who mistakenly turns down a proposal from the man she loves and slowly learns that she was wrong.

Woke: 'Persuasion' is referenced in 'Good Omens' because it's about a girl who is forced to turn down the man she loves because of external circumstances that are almost entirely outside her control, but she never stops being in love with him and wishing they could be together, and her suitor, who also never stopped loving her, slowly realizes he was wrong to resent her for not being willing to marry him right away, and at the end we see that they are both better off for waiting until the time was right.

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booksandmate

crowley holds the book during the entire scene so excuse me while i assume that he went back home (car) and put himself trough four hundred pages of regency romance to understand aziraphale’s concept of falling in love

He did! Can anyone tell which book he took off the shelf? It was set out for him to take, so I assume they wanted him to take a specific one:

Oh man. He took Persuasion. Don’t give up hope (Captain) Crowley (Wentworth).

Thanks for saying it ... that's what I was thinking, too!! (Or maybe Pride and Prejudice or something further right? It's so tough to tell!)

If I recall correctly, a while back Neil Gaiman received an ask inquiring about what Aziraphale’s favorite Jane Austen book would be, and he responded that it would probably be Persuasion. So uh. Yeah.

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sarahthecoat

that's what it looks like to me, either persuasion or pride and prejudice, hard to tell. the angle in the second pic is so steep. either one is fine. whichever, i hope he comes back for the other, and muriel lets him have it.

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nofomogirl

One of many roots of ineffable husbands' misunderstandings

There are many reasons why the S2 finale took us by surprise so much, and one of them is that we gaslighted ourselves into believing that Aziraphale and Crowley understand each other on the deepest possible level.

They don't.

Because they never talk. Not openly. Not about things that really matter.

I'm sure they've made a plethora of accurate observations about each other over the millennia, yes, but at the same time missed just as many things and formed just as many wrong assumptions.

We know that now.

For the last five months, we've been collectively shattering the illusion (most of us, anyway), and today I wanted to add to that noble effort. Something occurred to me while I was working on another post and I think it deserves to be its own thing rather than a sidenote in another lengthy meta.

It's probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but here I go.

Crowley doesn't actually understand how Aziraphale makes decisions.

I was rewatching season 1 to confirm some things for my next analysis, as one normally does, and I had a minor epiphany about the scene where Aziraphale agrees to get involved in stopping Armageddon.

Let's recall how it went.

  1. Crowley started listing things Aziraphale would lose along with Earth, and things he would have to endure in Heaven.
  2. Aziraphale rejected his idea and tried to leave.
  3. Crowley hooked Aziraphale back in by inviting him for lunch.
  4. Crowley let Aziraphale enjoy his meal and relax.
  5. Crowley bought himself more time by inviting himself over for drinks.
  6. Crowley started giving more examples of things Aziraphale could enjoy on Earth that he wouldn't have in Heaven.
  7. Crowley went on a rant on how nasty Armageddon would be.
  8. Once more Crowley described just how miserable Aziraphale's life would be after Armageddon, for eternity.
  9. Aziraphale cracked and admitted he didn't want Armageddon to happen. However, he insisted he could not disobey God's will.
  10. Crowley pointed out that it might be God's plan for Armageddon to be prevented, that Aziraphale's duty as an angel was to stop whatever the demons were planning to do, and since right now they were planning to bring about Armageddon, he should stop that.
  11. Aziraphale finally agreed and shook on it.

Until now I never questioned that it was a masterful temptation by temptation master Crowley and every stage was purposeful and absolutely necessary to achieve the final goal.

First Crowley made Aziraphale really want to prevent Armageddon and then helped him reframe the situation in a way that would allow the angel to do what he wanted. He gave him an excuse. A plausible deniability.

But what if that wasn't it?

What if what Crowley was actually doing was taking one approach after another until something finally worked? What if Aziraphale didn't really need any softening or priming, and Crowley had just wasted a whole day on ineffective tactics because he didn't know what would do the trick until he finally chanced upon it?

The more I thought about it the more convinced I was that that was the case, and right now I can't believe I was clinging so tightly to the idea that Crowley knew what he was doing with Aziraphale.

Because if he really did understand his angel as well as I used to believe, why would he be so unsuccessful at reaching him when it mattered the most?

A popular interpretation is that in those crucial moments, Crowley simply lacked time, and convincing Aziraphale always required time. When time was lacking Crowley's finesse was useless against the angel's stubbornness, so he failed.

I can see how that makes sense, but as I've said, personally, I changed my mind.

The interpretation I'm suggesting is that Aziraphale never needed all that much time to be convinced of something. It only took Crowley so much time because he was pushing his buttons blindly until something worked. Because he didn't know what the right one was, and when he had only one chance he would always push the wrong one.

So, how does Aziraphale make decisions?

He chooses what he thinks is right.

Yes, it can get rather complicated. On the one hand, he is heavily indoctrinated, and it impacts his judgment. He can just embrace the most ridiculous piece of celestial propaganda on occasion and stick to it stubbornly. On the other hand, we know that his sense of right and wrong isn't really tied to Heaven or even God. We know because we've seen choices he'd made in the Job minisode.

But while it may not be easy to predict what Aziraphale will deem right in any given situation, the fact remains that this is what it comes down to. This is what ultimately informs his choices, especially the big ones, and the most effective way to persuade Aziraphale to do something is by proving to him that it would be the right thing to do. Or that the other option wouldn't.

I don't think Crowley realizes it. And there's a good reason why.

A great many choices aren't about right and wrong. They're just choices between two equally neutral options. Sometimes two equally ambivalent options. Either way, not really moral choices.

The problem with Aziraphale is that while he's managing perfectly fine small morally neutral choices, he's not very good with big ones. I believe that he expects all big choices to be moral choices and he has trouble making them when they're not. I've seen quite a few posts here arguing that Aziraphale is incapable of choosing his own happiness for its own sake, and I wholeheartedly agree.

And Crowley doesn't understand it.

He's not that far off the mark when the choice really is a moral one. When he was trying to convince Aziraphale to the Arrangement his arguments were about how the end result would be the same, ie. how it wouldn't be wrong. When he was trying to convince Aziraphale to kill Adam, he was pointing out how it would save everybody.

But when the choice isn't inherently a moral one, he doesn't understand why it's difficult for Aziraphale.

And in the most dire situations, he doesn't understand he could maybe try and go this route.

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On the contents of that letter depended all which this world could do for her. Anything was possible, anything might be defied rather than suspense.

Imagine if Aziraphale, taking inspiration from one of his favorite books, one day had decided to put his pen to paper and open his heart. He wrote a letter, addressed to Crowley, but never had the courage to send it. He just put it aside, hiding it in the bookshop, and forgot about it.

Imagine that Muriel find the letter, hidden between the pages of a copy of Persuasion, and bring it to Crowley. And that Crowley - who hasn't heard anything from Aziraphale since he took the elevator to Heaven - remains there, with the letter in his hand, knowing that what is written inside can change everything once again.

Imagine Crowley quickly tearing the envelope and opening the letter, trying to focus on the words, with the fear of getting hurt once again. Yet with the hope that Aziraphale has written that he too would like to spend...

@nightingalecottage I remember your meta about Good Omens and Jane Austen! I’ve never read her books so I have no idea of the context of this but it’s beautifully written!

I’ve written a little about Persuasion here, but I could expand the parallelism with Good Omens to give more context!

Under the cut, for anyone who’s interested.

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heyimdove

More on why Persuasion is the real Jane Austen parallel to Aziracrow, and why Pride and Prejudice is not, because I can’t stop dwelling.

There’s a lot here so I’ll try to structure this in a way that makes sense. Wish me luck.

Their relationship is definitely more like Persuasion than Pride and Prejudice. I always assumed everyone went for P&P because not as many people have read Persuasion. It's one of Jane's less well known works. We are deliberately shown all six of her novels on the shelf though and I'm pretty sure we aren't shown which one Crowley picks up and holds, everyone just assumes it's Pride and Prejudice. Since he knows nothing about her works he wouldn't know that was the most famous of them and therefore would have no reason to specifically pick that one up.

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Jane Austen. We're having a Ball.

(aka, it’s a truth universally acknowledged, that an angel in possession of a good bookshop, must be in want of touching his husband’s hand)

I have been asked to explain to those who are not familiar with Jane Austen whether I think there are references or parallels between her works and our Crowley and Aziraphale. It’s gonna be a long post - sorry in advance - so take a nice cupperty and make yourself comfortable. Before starting, let’s keep in mind that we’re talking about some visual parallels and loose references in the plot. We are not dealing with a retelling or anything like that. It’s just something niche that you may find interesting or somehow entertaining.

A brief introduction to contextualize Jane's novels. She lived in the Regency era (wouldn't you like to see a Regency GO flashback?), her six novels were published between 1811 and 1818 (posthumously). She may or may not have been a brandy smuggler or the mind behind the 1810 Clerkenwell diamond robbery, but she was certainly quite an interesting personality. Despite having written some of the most famous love stories of all time, she never married and had little experience of the world. But she was very cultured and an avid reader. At the time, gothic novels were spreading: overly dramatic stories, usually set in the Middle Ages, in places such as monasteries, abbeys, or haunted castles. The main characters were pure, innocent heroines, classic villains and fearless heroes. Jane read these novels - she even made some parodies of them - and thought, nope, that's not me.

“I could not sit seriously down to write a serious romance under any other motive than to save my life […] No, I must keep my own style and go on in my own way.”

Basically, I’m doing my own thing, get over it. Jane was primarily a great observer of society, with its many ridiculous rules, and of human behavior, with all its contradictions. People's emotions, a great dose of irony and society’s criticism are the core of her novels.

Okay, but what does this have to do with Crowley and Aziraphale? Now we get there. I will talk briefly about the novels Emma and Persuasion, before the main course Pride and Prejudice. I apologize to all the Janeites out here, but I need to simplify the plots as much as possible to stay stick to the points that I believe are relevant as references for Good Omens.

1. Emma. The titular character, Emma, ​​believes to have a real talent as matchmaker: she’ll spend the entire novel looking for the perfect husband for her friend Harriet, with disastrous results. She’ll come to realize to be not such a good reader of people as she thought she was.

Why should we care? Aziraphale mentions Jane Austen for the first time thinking about how to make Nina and Maggie fall in love. Like Emma, ​​Azi and Crowley will try to play the matchmakers, with disastrous results.

More parallels: Emma herself appears to be not interested in romantic love and desire, until she has a big love epiphany moment. Rings any bell?

Relevant quote: I cannot make speeches. If I loved you less, I might be able to talk about it more. But you know what I am.”

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booksandmate

crowley holds the book during the entire scene so excuse me while i assume that he went back home (car) and put himself trough four hundred pages of regency romance to understand aziraphale’s concept of falling in love

He did! Can anyone tell which book he took off the shelf? It was set out for him to take, so I assume they wanted him to take a specific one:

Oh man. He took Persuasion. Don’t give up hope (Captain) Crowley (Wentworth).

Thanks for saying it ... that's what I was thinking, too!! (Or maybe Pride and Prejudice or something further right? It's so tough to tell!)

He took Persuasion!!!???

The story about Anne who is deeply in love with Wentworth but is pushed by others to turn down his proposal because they’re from different classes and he’s viewed as too lowly for her?

That Persuasion..?

The one where the lovers are separated for years only to encounter each other again to find that Wentworth is now prosperous and Anne’s family has fallen on hard times.

That Persuasion that…

Has Anne pining in the background believing her opportunities have passed her by and Wentworth can never forgive her for being influenced by others, but then he pens her the most romantic love confession ever! And they leave her toxic family to live their lives together!

To enhance your feelings about this post, listen to Wentworth’s letter narrated by none other than Michael Sheen:

OH MY GOOD OMENS

EVERYONE STOP EVERYTHING AND LISTEN TO THIS

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ayo-edebiri

Aziraphale basically did a Crowley, didn’t he?

He was like- I want a passionate and romantic love confession just like in Jane Austen…

And he got it. Oops.

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sarahthecoat

fortunately for everyone, crowley left out the bit where darcy insults lizzie's class/family, more or less, at least in the way mr darcy does it. unfortunately, that element still sneaks into aziraphale's speech, "you're (hell/demons) the bad guys", lumping crowley in with the rest when he has never really belonged there. but yes, all the passion and agitation and NGK is there.

i just got done listening to both Persuasion and Pride & Prejudice on librivox. there are a handful of versions of each to choose from, i went with the full cast dramatic readings, which was fun. lots of applicability! A tale of two cities is on librivox too, i am going to give that a try next.

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Can we talk about Aziraphale being a big fan of Jane Austen and having her books in different editions???

Somehow now I want to have those ones, they look so adorable...

Also Crowley took the Persuasion out of the bookshelf to observe it and I learned somewhere that it's Aziraphale favourite (i'm not crying I swear)

There's two books on the left part then the empty space this one was so it's the third from left to right and it's Persuasion (sorry i'm obsessed writing aboout Crowley reading Jane Austen's novels right now bc he's curious and plot wise also)

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vidavalor

They *are* Persuasion lol. Crowley's going to be reading that one in tears in The Bentley all who would've thought the brains behind the 1810 Clerkenwell Diamond Robbery could have written something so romantic...

*giggles*

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sarahthecoat

i just finished listening to persuasion on librivox. there are several versions, i chose the "dramatic reading" one, loved it. i had seen a dvd in the past (the one with ciaran hinds as wentworth) but as usual there is so much more in the book.

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The New S2 Poster Details

Terry's hat and scarf ❤ With an ook pin! ❤

Crowley's old glasses on the statue. The statue itself is the Marly Horses by Guillaume Coustou the Elder.

Aziraphale's bow tie on the floor 👀

The cardboard box - long ago Neil shared on his instagram: Game on! There are mysteries, histories, secrets revealed and Something Too Terrible To Be Revealed on the way. Also a cardboard box.

Three feathers. One white, one blac and one white with a bluish/grey tinge (if it's not a shaddow)?

The angel mug is back 🥰

'The Resurrectionist' matches with skull and crossbones. In the previous poster there was a The Resurrectionist leaflet.

Again the Eccles cakes (already were in the previous poster)

Feather duster with dark gray/black feathers

On this shelf there books also in the previous poster, but at different place 🤔: The Crow Road, Catch-22.

And: The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark Haddon, from wikj: mystery novel by nritish writer Mark Haddon. Its title refers to an observation by the fictional detective Sherlock Holmes in the 1892 short story The Adventure of Silver Blaze

And: No Woman No Cry: My Life with Bob Marley by Rita Marley a memoir of Bob Marley by wife, Rita.

Also heard the people say that the right one of the Catch-22 they see Gabriel García Márquez on the spine (I can't read it :)).

Lord Jim and Treasure Island have also been identified in the previous poster but now are in a different place 🤔👀.

Three books by Jane Austen: Persuasion, Pride and Prejudice and Emma. We have already seen Pride and Prejudice in the previous poster but it was a different edition so Aziraphale has more than one :).

Candy?

Again geckos! :) 🦎 (there were three in the previous poster)

The Buddy Holly Everyday was also in a different place in the previous poster. And there is a note on it

The Ressurectionist, 66. Goat Gate, Edinburgh 👀.

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I think the fundamental issue with Anne Elliot’s character in Persuasion is that some people (eg. idiots writing a screenplay for Netflix because an algorithm told them to) think the fact that Anne in the novel is passive, meek, and self-effacing, is only because she’s a woman in 1817 who is oh so oppressed! Which is like, completely ignorant of the fact that for the time period, she occupies a place of enormous privilege. She’s the white daughter of a wealthy white land-owning male, and while she can’t vote or work, she’s still pretty high up on that regency hierarchy. There’s no reason to conclude that all, or even most, of her personality is due to being a woman in a patriarchal society, and not just her natural disposition. 

This is obvious if you’ve read Austen’s novels, and actually find out that plenty of women are NOT passive, meek, and self-effacing (Elizabeth Bennet, Emma Woodhouse, Lady Catherine de Bourgh, etc.). Even within Persuasion itself, there are other women who are not, like both of Anne’s sisters, Lady Russell, and Mrs. Croft. And since nearly all of Austen’s female characters occupy a similar social position, you can assume that they all face nearly identical gendered oppression. And yet somehow still ended up with distinct personalities!

Austen recognizes and admires Anne’s personality, the parts that are compassionate, kind, polite, and modest (in the sense of being unconceited, not sexually). Austen does not see these as negative traits, and neither should the reader. 

But, for Austen, moderation is the key to all things, and this is a theme that crops up in a lot of her novels. The whole premise of Persuasion is that you can take even positive traits too far. Anne is a decent and unselfish person, willing to sacrifice her own comfort for others. But before the novel begins, she allows herself to be persuaded to act against her own personal inclinations, in order to please her friends and family. This causes both she and Wentworth a lot of misery, certainly much more pain and distress than would have been suffered by her friends and family if she had just married Wentworth in the first place.

What Austen is saying is that it’s fine, and even admirable, to be unassuming and selfless, if that’s your natural personality, but that you should take care to not let that natural inclination to please others interfere with your own happiness. That in some cases, doing so actually causes more suffering than just doing what is best for yourself. It’s basically a guide for women like Anne, praising them for the sweet and noble aspects in their natures, while warning them to still take care of themselves.

Turning the character into a secret girlboss who’s just living in the wrong century, completely erases this very important theme, and one that resonates even with many modern women, who despite Hollywood’s opinion on the matter, are not all snarky, confident, and assertive. There’s nothing wrong with women who are those things, but women are people, and therefore their personalities vary to a near infinite degree.

The current vogue for only allowing female characters who are quirky, sassy, and confident is as deeply sexist as the idea that only women who are demure, meek, and self-effacing are acceptable. And Austen, a woman born in 1775, never did that. She wrote female characters with a wide variety of personalities and saw the worth (and the foibles) in all of them, from Elizabeth Bennet to Anne Elliot. No two were alike, but they all had something to offer, and a voice that deserved to heard.

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