mouthporn.net
#collectivism – @sarahthecoat on Tumblr
Avatar

SarahTheCoat

@sarahthecoat

mostly Sherlock. The New Semester my dreamwidth
Avatar
reblogged

Aziraphale as a natural collectivist and Crowley as a natural individualist raise their beautiful heads once again!

Aziraphale's huge mistake during the Final Fifteen is, obviously, as we've rehashed a lot, assuming Crowley would accept being reappointed as an angel. This isn't out of a lack of love for Crowley as a demon. It's because Aziraphale's first instinct when he's anxious is to look toward validation from a collective of some sort...and the Metatron has just reminded him of what Heaven could "offer" as that collective. A way to do good! Safety! Openness! He doesn't consider how Crowley will feel about this in large part because thinking individualistically doesn't come naturally to him; he's so busy thinking about the joy of Belonging that he doesn't consider how much Crowley values being outside the system - indeed, that it's an essential part of him.

Crowley's mistake, I think, is arguing that it can be very literally "just the two of us." Of course they can be a couple! Aziraphale wants that. He's happy with Crowley as his most unique, enduring, intimate connection. But just as Crowley's individuality is essential to him, Aziraphale is always going to need some cause to serve, somewhere to belong. That's who he is. And he loves Crowley so much that he wants, with utter desperation, for the two of them to belong in the same place, with the same people.

As I've said before, Aziraphale's sense of individuality is growing. He wants to be an individual, not just a faceless, passionless drone in a group of other drones. I think ultimately the reason he loves Crowley so much is that's the gift Crowley's given him - the safety to explore that thing he wants so badly. He needs, I hope, to reframe himself as "belonging" to Earth, rather than to Heaven.

And Crowley does not actually want to be isolated, adrift in the universe with just one other person. He wants to put down roots. He wants to belong somewhere. I think if you had to choose a reason why he loves Aziraphale, that would be it: Crowley can feel belonging with Aziraphale, and Aziraphale also gives him opportunities to connect with others - with humans, specifically - in ways that would ordinarily never be permitted for an agent of Hell. However, he's afraid to make his connection to Earth's community irrevocable, and his fear has always been entirely reasonable, both because it puts his and Aziraphale's safety at risk and because it's heartbreaking to watch what humans do to themselves and each other ("Humans. You don't let yourself get too attached."). He'll have to overcome those fears not because they're so wrong, but just because they're in the way of what he wants.

Avatar
queerfables

This is SUCH a good explanation of the central conflict between them. It lays out why they're both going to have to change if they want to find happiness, but also why this isn't an irreconcilable difference. Ultimately, they both love and respect the core of who each other is, and they both want the same things. They're just hashing out the details and working through their flawed beliefs about the world.

Aziraphale believes that auditioning for approval is the same thing as authentically belonging, and he has a whole lot of other flawed beliefs wrapped up in that one that broadly come down to not fully trusting himself on matters of morality and identity. Heaven has exploited his natural tendency towards collectivism for their own ends. That's why I agree that he's ultimately going to reframe himself as belonging to the Earth. That's a conclusion to his arc that resolves the flawed belief while still meeting the need of belonging underneath it.

Crowley believes that by insulating himself from others, he can keep himself safe. Just like Aziraphale's collectivist tendencies are normal and healthy on their own but have been warped into something that hurts him, this is Crowley's natural individualist tendencies becoming maladaptive in response to trauma. He's spent thousands of years forced to hide his care and compassion for others. He trusts a single other being in all of creation and that connection almost gets both of them executed as traitors. Of course he's afraid of letting other people in. The painful truth is that Crowley is not safe. But his belief is nonetheless flawed, because keeping others at arm's length was never really going to protect him. And again, I agree, he's going to have to let go of his fears and commit to his connection with the Earth. I am so convinced that real safety is going to come from letting himself trust and rely on other people, especially humans.

This sets up such an elegant mirrored narrative between Crowley and Aziraphale. Crowley relies too heavily on himself and is unable to trust others. Aziraphale relies too heavily on others and is unable to trust himself. And in a gorgeous piece of synergy, these opposite problems have the exact same solution: they both need Earth. Earth, with all it's fascinating contradictions, is the place where they can at once find independence and belonging; at once protect themselves and challenge themselves to grow. If they can work through the things holding them back, it's where they can be safe and together, existing on their own terms as the versions of themselves they most want to be. Earth is the home they've been fighting for since the very beginning, and all that's left is for them to let themselves have it.

Avatar
reblogged

Aziraphale as a natural collectivist and Crowley as a natural individualist raise their beautiful heads once again!

Aziraphale's huge mistake during the Final Fifteen is, obviously, as we've rehashed a lot, assuming Crowley would accept being reappointed as an angel. This isn't out of a lack of love for Crowley as a demon. It's because Aziraphale's first instinct when he's anxious is to look toward validation from a collective of some sort...and the Metatron has just reminded him of what Heaven could "offer" as that collective. A way to do good! Safety! Openness! He doesn't consider how Crowley will feel about this in large part because thinking individualistically doesn't come naturally to him; he's so busy thinking about the joy of Belonging that he doesn't consider how much Crowley values being outside the system - indeed, that it's an essential part of him.

Crowley's mistake, I think, is arguing that it can be very literally "just the two of us." Of course they can be a couple! Aziraphale wants that. He's happy with Crowley as his most unique, enduring, intimate connection. But just as Crowley's individuality is essential to him, Aziraphale is always going to need some cause to serve, somewhere to belong. That's who he is. And he loves Crowley so much that he wants, with utter desperation, for the two of them to belong in the same place, with the same people.

As I've said before, Aziraphale's sense of individuality is growing. He wants to be an individual, not just a faceless, passionless drone in a group of other drones. I think ultimately the reason he loves Crowley so much is that's the gift Crowley's given him - the safety to explore that thing he wants so badly. He needs, I hope, to reframe himself as "belonging" to Earth, rather than to Heaven.

And Crowley does not actually want to be isolated, adrift in the universe with just one other person. He wants to put down roots. He wants to belong somewhere. I think if you had to choose a reason why he loves Aziraphale, that would be it: Crowley can feel belonging with Aziraphale, and Aziraphale also gives him opportunities to connect with others - with humans, specifically - in ways that would ordinarily never be permitted for an agent of Hell. However, he's afraid to make his connection to Earth's community irrevocable, and his fear has always been entirely reasonable, both because it puts his and Aziraphale's safety at risk and because it's heartbreaking to watch what humans do to themselves and each other ("Humans. You don't let yourself get too attached."). He'll have to overcome those fears not because they're so wrong, but just because they're in the way of what he wants.

This is, I think, the biggest obstacle in their relationship from Aziraphale's end. Crowley's obviously got a massive case of denial and difficulting expressing emotions other than anger and a slew of other baggage, but one thing he does seem to be pretty good at figuring out is what Aziraphale wants. You know, rescue, attention, stain removal... and the preservation of the books without Az even mentioning it, that's a huge clue. They don't have the same priorities, but Crowley at least knows what Aziraphale's priorities are.

But Aziraphale, I think, has a pretty poor idea of what Crowley wants. Another scene that makes this obvious is the Ball. People have said that the Ball was for Crowley. Well, kind of. It was about Crowley. But it was for Aziraphale, really. He's arranging the sort of romantic affair he wants. It's not what Crowley would want. If not for the interruption, I'm sure he would have played along, and been happy to indulge, but it wouldn't have been his first choice.

This is not to say that Aziraphale doesn't know Crowley at all. He's definitely picked up on some of the things he likes. ('Rescuing me makes him so happy.' Doesn't it just!) But he has a tendency to project himself onto people, and onto Crowley especially. He struggles to see other points of view in general, I think. Obliviousness is his superpower.

Of course it certainly doesn't help that Crowley rarely if ever expresses his own needs or wants. He's got to be the cool guy, after all. Doesn't really need anything. He's fine. Of course he's not fine, but you have to tell Aziraphale things like that. Aziraphale cannot take a hint. And Crowley damn well knows that. He'd have to be very open and direct if he needed something from him, and he does not do that, ever. He channels himself into giving Aziraphale what he wants instead of addressing his own issues, because he totally has a handle on those. (Sure you do, Crowley.)

The one thing Aziraphale has figured out about what Crowley needs, though, is that he's lonely. He's dead right about that. Lonely, and purposeless, and sometimes bummed about it. The problem is, Az then projects his own needs onto finding the solution. He wants validation from Heaven. He wants to feel like he's really serving God again. He wants back in the system, he just wants the system to be better. That would be lovely, wouldn't it? Just perfect.

And so he tries to give Crowley that. Just like the Ball, he gives Crowley what HE would want. And this time, that is a fatal error. Because with the Ball, again, it was just kind of not Crowley's thing, but barring demonic invasion, he could've rolled with it. Returning to Heaven, though, is a painful offer. It actively appalls Crowley. He recoils like he's been slapped. He'd have rather been slapped. It's why that scene hurts so much to watch. Aziraphale is being incredibly sweet to him, trying so hard to make him happy... and it's the worst thing he could possibly do to him. God, it's awful. It's amazing. This conflict could not have been better engineered, because both of them are so valid here. They're just fundamentally different people who want fundamentally different things. Aziraphale misread the room, as he is wont to do, but more fatally than usual. Crowley reacts poorly, as he is wont to do, and this time no apology dance will fix it.

(And god yes to everything about Crowley not letting himself get attached and effectively perpetuating his own loneliness. So true. It's been a safety mechanism for most of his existence as a demon, but it's something he will absolutely have to push through now, because Aziraphale can't be his only lifeline. He's got to have purpose. He's got to let himself care about the things he's always struggled - and failed - to not care about. Feeding peas to ducks and escorting the guests to safety was a start. I'd love to see that continue.)

Avatar
reblogged

From me and you to the world and back again

This is a follow-up to this post about Aziraphale as collectivist and Crowley as individualist.

You know, incidentally, I still struggle with those terms, because they usually refer to real-world politics, and that's...not exactly where I'm trying to go with this. I mean yes all art is political and so are all interpretations, but I'm not trying to imply that Aziraphale and Crowley necessarily embody any specific real-world movement. I think they embody things everyone has to deal with: Who am I and where do I belong?

The first post was all about how each character represents collectivism or individualism as a concept. But something much more interesting happens when you consider their relationship, and how it encourages them to grow out of their original mindsets. It makes collectivistic Aziraphale think about individual perspectives, and it gets individualistic Crowley invested in the bigger picture. They make each other more well-rounded. This strength of their relationship persists even through the Final Fifteen Minutes of Season 2.

Aziraphale, my supposed collectivist, has character growth that relates a lot to his inner self, his certainty about who he is and how he is different. The freedom to explore himself as a unique person, separate from the rest of Heaven - individuality, in a single word - is what his relationship with Crowley has given him.

Aziraphale doesn't just "need" individuality because it's the moral of the story; he needs it because he loves it and it opens up a whole world of other things he loves. Aziraphale loves being himself, with all his charming quirks, and he loves collecting unique things, and he loves Crowley.

But preserving those things, even before enjoying them, will require thinking and acting for himself, and you can't master the skill of thinking and acting for yourself by leaning on someone else. So Aziraphale needs to secure his ability to stand on his own two feet, outside of Crowley's presence.

Crowley's character growth relates to his relationship with the world, how he can belong, and what roles he can play outside of the two he's already rejected (angel and demon). As an outsider to the only two "sides" he's ever believed he could be part of, he needs to find where he truly belongs. Aziraphale's gift to him is a way to belong on Earth.

And again, Crowley doesn't just "need" to belong somewhere because we said so. He wants to belong somewhere he can choose. He hates the constrictive Heaven and Hell system, and he's fascinated by the repeated acts of engineering and creation that humans are capable of. He likes participating in it in his own ways, too! Having a life on Earth fulfills Crowley in a way that being even the best angel or demon in the universe never could, because deep down, Crowley wants a choice, and having a predetermined role inherently takes that away from him.

But Crowley can't discover his place in a huge, wide, diverse world of choice after choice by focusing on just ONE priority and ONE relationship. So he, too, needs to practice his growth away from Aziraphale.

The irony here is that to best receive each other's gifts, they need to part for a while. And yet, once they accomplish this, they might be better at meeting in each other's original comfort zones.

Avatar
reblogged

Exactly what are the different exactlies?

During this season, it's pretty clear that Aziraphale and Crowley both adore each other and humanity and want very much to be together. It's also pretty clear that, even before Heaven came and made Aziraphale an offer he probably couldn't refuse, he and Crowley weren't quite on the same page regarding...well, just what they are.

What the heck? How can their feelings be so mutual and so out of sync?

Well, I always said Aziraphale was the collectivist and Crowley was the individualist, and Season 2 has only made me more certain of it. These sound like such boring and dry concepts, but they get to the heart of even their most extreme issues - for example, Aziraphale's denial about Heaven as a dangerous place originates with his incredibly deep-seated need to believe in and belong to a collective.

Avatar

I’ve been seeing a few posts on minimalism going around, one being @bisquitt’s post on sustainability and minimalism—how the two terms shouldn’t be conflated, and how real sustainability is about anti-capitalism in the forms of reuse, repair, and community interdependence. Another is @allstrangeandwonderful’s post on how Minimalism is an aesthetic based around coping in the "corporate hellscape" we live in—contemporary designers gravitate towards neutral colors as a respite from the warlike corporate use of color to catch the attention of a consumer (See Mina Le's video on this concept also. She offers up a few possible reasons for this trend towards "greige" interiors, one being the inundation from advertising we experience in our everyday lives).

I wanted to talk about these concepts and tie in some other things I’ve been seeing around.

Imo, minimalism is anti-consumerist, but not anti-capitalist. The lifestyle and aesthetic is intended to address the systemic problem of living in a consumerist society on an individual level. Instead of ending the capitalist system that thrusts consumerism on us all, it suggests that minimalists create a safe space away from consumerism. It is not interested in changing the system, only the individual. What really drove this home for me was watching The Financial Diet on YouTube interview The Minimalists, the guys who kicked off the trend. She keeps trying to ask them about the underlying issues Minimalism acts as a band-aid for, and they keep dodging her questions.

The lifestyle choices bisquitt offers up as sustainable are typically lumped under the umbrella of Solarpunk: “fixing shit around your house. thrifting. patching clothes and handing them down. a community garden. potluck dinner parties. farmer’s markets. a barter system among friends and neighbors. kindness. love among community members.“ These things do not conform to the minimalist aesthetic tenets of order, function, and simplicity. They are often vibrant, mismatched, and chaotic, messy even (see my post on solarpunk aesthetics here). This is because solarpunk aims to solve the same issues minimalism does, but on a societal level. Solarpunk is working towards a utopian future of degrowth, where the forces that Minimalism is in opposition to will no longer exist. This allows for everyday people to reclaim vibrancy from corporations. That busyness is only desirable in a world where capitalism isn't such a burden. Solarpunk advocates for simplicity in all but design, instead of the other way around.

Another thing is the separation between meaning and function present in Minimalism. Minimalism is often associated with deriving pleasure from experiences, not things. The physical space is deprioritized (I know the movement is about changing the physical space, but the idea is that the physical space just makes your life more efficient) for a kind of zen outlook about mind over matter. Solarpunk is much more holistic in its recognition that inner peace comes from a play between the external and internal worlds—from connection and respect for people, things, and resources. Instead of removing meaning and beauty from a space to prioritize the mind, Solarpunk instills it, to elicit interaction with the world instead of a retreat from it. Thus, Solarpunk rolls meaning and function into one: a visibly mended shirt is both functional (the hole is gone), and meaningful (it says much more about the politics of the wearer than one mended invisibly). Another example is the bottle walls commonly used in Earthships: Making the bottles visible is beautiful, and it communicates that the builder is interested in using sustainable material.

In short, minimalism is individualist while Solarpunk is collectivist, and the aesthetics of each reflect that. Retreating from a broken society will not fix said society. Sustainability needs to be solved on a societal level, so minimalism as a solution to overconsumption just isn't gonna cut it.

You are using an unsupported browser and things might not work as intended. Please make sure you're using the latest version of Chrome, Firefox, Safari, or Edge.
mouthporn.net