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SarahTheCoat

@sarahthecoat

mostly Sherlock. The New Semester my dreamwidth
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I just re-read some pages of The Fellowship Of The Ring and I don't get why so many people take issue with around-20-y/o Elijah Wood being cast. While Frodo Baggins is indeed canonically about 50 years old, the book specifically mentions how he looks like someone fresh out of his teens because he kept the One Ring for multiple years, which is known to keep their owner young and fresh (at least at the beginning until they rapidly age after getting rid of it) - not to mention that since hobbits age slower than humans, Frodo would only be in maybe his 30s. On one page we are being told that multiple people gossip and wonder about how young he still looks, including Gandalf. So if anything, you could say that Elijah Wood was too skinny or too attractive (though I do think he looks like Frodo is described), but not too young.

And I actually like that he looks young because it not only does it make him look cute and innocent, but we also get the notion of someone who has had a relatively quiet and happy, sheltered life before (aside from the terrible death of his parents) and of someone who is visibly sensitive and innocent and gets taken care of a lot. The BIGGEST reason I like his young looks however, is the parallel to young soldiers who are ripped out of their homes by outer forces, by older men who are the ones who started the wars. Young soldiers whose lives are practically destroyed before they even really begin, just like Frodo's - even if he's already half a century old. He comes back traumatized and sick/disabled having saved the world but having lost so much. Most likely his innocence too.

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sarahthecoat

exactly.

it's supposed to remind you of ww1 and like that.

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hecatesbroom

I'm rewatching Good Omens for the first time after reading the book and it's really fun to see how already existing book scenes between Aziraphale and Crowley were reframed to make them more intimate, in a way. For example, I just watched the second episode and a couple of things stood out to me:

When Aziraphale's jacket is hit by a paintball, Crowley does nothing about it in the book — whereas in the series he removes it for him.

Then later on in the episode, Crowley pushes Aziraphale against a wall when Aziraphale calls him nice, and when Mary walks in, she makes a comment about disturbing an intimate moment. In the book, however, Crowley does get mad at Aziraphale for calling him nice, but nothing else happens.

My favourite bit might be in the order of events and what it allows them to do, though. In the book, they crash into Anathema before arriving at the convent-turned-paintball hall. Whereas in the series they do so afterwards, which allows the series to place part of the conversation they have after hitting Anathema (and visiting the convent) in a little café rather than the car. Whereas the entire conversation took place in the car in the book.

I love it because it implies, however subtly, that rather than simply being partners in crime, Crowley and Aziraphale enjoy each other's company and actively seek it out even when they're not on a mission. It reframes a conversation they had in a car (which is a place people tend to talk to each other regardless of how well they get along, because hey, you're in there together anyway) and puts it in an entirely different context by allowing them to talk in a café instead. A place they consciously had to seek out to talk to each other longer than required for purely practical reasons.

Which kind of hints at how important their relationship is in the series as opposed to the books, even before we get the flashbacks in episode 3.

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neil-gaiman

Hi Neil, I took a look through your FAQ and couldn't find the answer to this one so I hope you haven't been asked this too many times- do you know whose desicion it was to so drastically change TV Crowley's response to being called 'nice' from his response in the book? I just personally feel like there's a world of difference between "All right, all right, tell the whole blessed world, why don't you?" and "Shut it! I'm a demon! I'm not nice, I've never been nice, nice is a four-letter word!" while pinning Aziraphale to the wall. I like both versions for different reasons, but I'm still wondering, who thought up that change and why was it made?

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Do I know whose decision it was? Given that the only person writing the scripts and making the story of Good Omens into something that could be told on television was me, I can confidently assert that it was my decision. It worked better as drama, or I thought it did.

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sarahthecoat

sure did, lots of "i can do that with a look" too. much more is conveyed that just with the words!

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i respect people saying crowley has a soft spot for aziraphale but he isn't inherently soft but that simply cannot be me i read nothing but softness in crowley i'll admit i don't quite remember just how different he is in the book but show!crowley? softer than aziraphale by a mile and a half i know he's a demon but he's absolute garbage at it i'm so sorry

I agree about show!Crowley and in my opinion book!Crowley is just as soft.

When I read the book I assumed that whatever the differences I'd love Crowley just as I'd loved him in the show, but after a few pages I was overwhelmed because he was cuter and more huggable than I'd ever imagined.

Book!Crowley is basically introduced to us as "quite likes humans, major failure in a demon" and "was so horrified by the Spanish Inquisition that he had to get drunk for a week after seeing it". His biggest demonic career achievements are making a pregnant woman eat a food and to have designed a highway that causes a lot of traffic jams. The evil deeds he itches to do are letting down tyres and stealing a few radios out of expensive cars. Meanwhile he advocates to save the world, that the Antichrist isn't evil by nature and that people born into poverty don't have the same chances as those born in castles and that that's unfair. His idea for misdemeanor the young Antichrist should get up to is to ride his little tricycle inside the house. Crowley's favourite TV show is The Golden Girls. He likes to sleep as a hobby. Yep, not soft at all. Very evil. ;)

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neil-gaiman

hi neil!! my mam, who is an absolutely massive fan of both you and terry pratchett (she owns every book you two have ever made), would like to know whether the second season will have any references to things in the book that didn't make it to the first season? eg scenes that never made it, lines, etc. or will it just be a brand new start?

sorry if this doesn't make any sense i wasn't really sure how to phrase it properly

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neil-gaiman

As I awoke this morning, I was struck by a thought. While watching the Good Omens show, I noticed several differences between it and the book, many of which I figured owed to the fact that different forms of media allow for different ways to portray things.

But there is one change that I am particularly curious about. In the show, at the end, Satan himself emerges from hell in anger at Adam's decision to stop Armageddon, only to be put down by his son's speech about how he was a horrible dad and Adam did not see him as his father. Whereas, as I recall, in the book, there is a dramatic rumbling after the Metatron and Beelzebub leave, with everyone present gearing up to fight Adam's father- only for Mr Young to be the one to arrive. Which I thought was a wonderful way of showing the change in reality that happened, as Adam saw Arthur as his father and changed reality to remove Satan from the equation.

So my question is mainly where the choice came from to have the devil appear after all, albeit for a short time, in the show.

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Because I couldn’t figure out how to have what happened in the book happen and still make it satisfying to watch. And because I didn’t ever want people who had read the book to assume they knew everything that would happen. I wanted Crowley and Aziraphale involved and I wanted Adam to seize his own destiny back, and for us the watch this play out and care in real time.

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neil-gaiman

I reacted to the ask about nudity, it reminded me of something I wanted to tell you about the show: A lot of the things in the show are… I don’t know the best word for it, but perhaps ”milder” can suffice? than in the comics. And I just wanted to say that I’m grateful for it. I don’t feel like the show is censored in any way, but things that are gorey and uncomfortable in the comics would have been almost unbearable in live action-form, at least for me personally. (Calliopes story is a very good example of it I feel - if some scenes were as…. detailed as they are in the comic it would’ve upset me too much to watch.) The show feels kinder, without losing depth and honesty. Thank you for that.

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A lot of it is just deciding what we were going for in the comic and trying to create that effect with television rather than with static drawn images. Things that are hard but okay as drawings might be much darker and more painful when you are seeing them happen to real people.

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sarahthecoat

that is true, and important to keep in mind. when one is reading a book, the images in your head can be limited by your own imagination, even by skimming over the words on the page. in a graphic novel, that effect is somewhat lessened, but in a live action tv/movie, it is GONE, you have no choice but to absorb the image on the screen in full (unless forewarned to cover your eyes, and even then, the sounds are there, which again you can self filter from the printed page).

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From the DVD commentary, episode 1:

Neil: There was a version of the script where I was asked - and I did - they asked me to it [baby swap] in a way that the viewer would think that the Americans has actually wound up with the baby [Antichrist], but it seemed…

Douglas: …sounds like hard work…

Neil: …it seemed like hard work and it wasn’t actually funny at that point if you don’t know that everybody is screwing up. 

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From the DVD commentary, episode 1:

Neil: And there’s the table tennis table. That’s a tiny tribute to the line in Good Omens*.

*‘The Chattering Order of Saint Beryl is under a vow to emulate Saint Beryl at all times, except on Tuesday afternoons, for half an hour, when the nuns are permitted to shut up, and, if they wish, to play table tennis.’

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From the DVD commentary, episode 1:

Douglas: I love this little moment here when David comes out of the car and does this little miracle.

Neil: And you added that miracle in.

Douglas: Yeah. It was in the book, but yeah, we put it back in.

Neil: I thought it was gonna be expensive and complicated, and you said, ‘No, we’re just gonna have a man in the car and he’s gonna turn them off.’

Douglas: Yeah, at the right moment, and that’s what happened.

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naefelldaurk

The Really Big One—Crowley's Rant

Toward the end of Good Omens, Crowley suggests, with stunning nonchalance, that another war, "the really big one," looms on the horizon: the one with Heaven and Hell against humanity. Aziraphale's reaction is one of shock and dismay in both the TV and book versions. But such a thing had clearly never occurred to him.

Why had it occurred to Crowley?

The TV version leaves it there—an alarming statement, apparently made only to explain why they will be out of their respective bosses' crosshairs while Heaven and Hell prepare for war, and which is quickly forgotten when Crowley offers lunch.

Book Crowley, however, implies that the situation hinges on whether the Antichrist keeps his powers. When Aziraphale questions whether that will be allowed, Crowley replies, "You can never be certain about what's intended. Plans within plans." He goes on to complain, "Maybe it's all part of a great big ineffable plan. All of it. You, me, him, everything. Some great big test to see if what you've built all works properly, eh?" A "tall stranger," who had been feeding the ducks, pronounces that it is INEFFABLE, after which neither Crowley nor Aziraphale remembers what they had just been talking about. It has to be assumed that Crowley has gotten too close to The Truth, and they must be made to forget.

It's worth pointing out, I think, that humanity without the Antichrist on its side would stand no chance against the combined (or individual) forces of Heaven and Hell. Which makes it all the more confounding that the TV version bypasses Crowley's strongly worded musings entirely.

This is Crowley distilled to his essence. He's the inquisitive one who dares to wonder what's so bad about knowing the difference between good and evil, who asks the Big Questions (which caused him to Fall), who points out that they are all just the playthings of a rather disaffected higher power—and the one who is smart enough to reason that if the Antichrist retains his power Heaven and Hell will feel compelled to act. I wish Crowley's rant had been included in the TV version. As much as I adore seeing the two of them seemingly safe on that bench and happily together, just a couple more lines of exposition would have made that scene so much more comprehensible.

And who doesn't appreciate a proper Crowley rant?

I suspect that the details of the rant have been saved for the second or third season. So I think you will get them.

Also, if the Antichrist retaining his power means Heaven and Hell must act, what did Christ retaining his power mean? Did that also, necessitate action but wait— Christ was killed by Heaven, wasn’t he? Puts that in a different light, huh?

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neil-gaiman

I absolutely adore the Good Omens show, watched it over 50 times.

What was the hardest part of adapting the book into a miniseries and how did you decide where each episode should end?

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My recollection is that I looked at how long the book was (360 pages) and divided that by 6 episodes, and that made every 60 pages an episode. So I’d look at what was happening about every 60 pages and that would be the story and episode shape and end.

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