- Cordelia, Lady Vorkosigan (from Barrayar by Lois McMaster Bujold)
- Mariotta, Lady Culter (from The Game of Kings by Dorothy Dunnett)
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I haven't read the Lymond chronicles, but that Vorkosigan passage is incredibly ironic considering how Cordelia was the one who did win by force earlier in the book. In that sense, I think that both of these passages acknowledge that influence is meaningless without being backed by power within the system.
Ehh, but I think that Cordelia winning by force has nothing to do with the argument, because Mariotta in the second passage is talking about politics, not violence, and Cordelia's winning by force was kind of stealth-based (and very Drou and Bothari-dependent tbh) and didn't net her any actual political power. It's more about affordances within a society and coordination within a marriage in a society with unequal rights and implications about child development.
The context of the second passage is that Richard, a young Scottish lord during the Rough Wooing period, and Mariotta his wife, are newly married, and Richard is basically not consulting her at all on anything and keeping her out of the loop entirely. This is due to multiple reasons, one being that Richard is kind of shy and taciturn and uncommunicative by nature and needs to learn how to communicate, and the other being that he's absolutely fucking obsessed with hunting down his outlaw younger brother who he's always been jealous of (and who is the protagonist of the series - let's say that Richard is kind of a Mark to the protag's Miles), and he knows that the rest of his family doesn't approve of this so he's hiding it from them.
Mariotta's pregnant by this point, and she hates how isolated she is from everything that's going on and how utterly uninvolved he is in the family life, which is why she makes the point that she makes - since she is raised within this society, she doesn't think it's her place to go to Council meetings or to fight in battles, but she thinks that there needs to be coordination between the two of them, which is something that Cordelia actually has already. Aral does come to her for advice on his political issues (we see it happen repeatedly in Barrayar), and he listens to her ideas, and he IS very involved in his son's upbringing. Aral admittedly also has a lot more... raw power than Richard, because he's the Regent, whereas Richard is just a random aristocrat - he's near the top of the food chain, yeah, but not THAT high. Like, if Mariotta had Aral as a husband she wouldn't be complaining at all.
But, though I used to find that Vorkosigan passage iconic too when I first read it (after a long period of consuming media that thought that a woman can only be badass if she constantly fights people with swords I found it very refreshing), the more I think about it the more impatient I become with it because it kind of implies that teehee, we've pulled the wool over the dumb menfolk's eyes, they don't understand that we have the power to shape the next generation through Motherhood!
(And this argument is something very near and dear to my heart because I'm a researcher in social developmental psychology lol)
I just think it comes off very smug more than anything because, well, in my view Mariotta is right that whatever she teaches their children, they will eventually have to adapt to the incentives and values of the world outside their household if they want to survive, and this is something that Mariotta can only influence through Richard and with Richard's permission (and the same goes for Cordelia). If women were as powerful as the quote implies we'd have solved sexism centuries ago, because they'd have just taught their sons not to be sexist. And I feel that historically, my profession in particular has really overly emphasized the role of the mother, even though she was pretty powerless within the wider power structure during that exact same period, and I find that really sexist and reductive even though at face value it comes off as empowering, because it puts most of the responsibility on her but gives her very little actual power in the situation. Which is why both of these passages are living rent-free in my head lol.
If Cordelia were honest about what's going on here, she'd acknowledge that this is the... I hope I'm describing this clearly enough, but the Austenian ideal of a marriage based on respect and coordination (of the heroine by the hero) as the only way the heroine can achieve both agency and relational intimacy within the constraints of her society. Because if Cordelia kept on decapitating people as a way of asserting herself she'd probably get a lot of pushback tbh. It's not a viable long-term strategy.
And this is exactly what Mariotta considers normative as well, and it does seem to be within her society - we actually do see a bunch of women exercising soft power in the Lymond Chronicles: Richard's mother is a very Alys Vorpatril-like lady who, once the twisty younger son is apprehended, goes on a social campaign to gather votes against his execution and accomplishes quite a bit with it. She's also one of the, if not the, cleverest character in the series. Their family friends, the Buccleughs, feature a very... eh, meat and potatoes kind of husband, who is only interested in things as far as he can solve the situation by fucking them or stabbing them with a sword, and his wife who is lowkey directing him to go where the stabbing is useful and not detrimential, and their marriage actually works and seems filled with affection and banter. (We also see plenty of adventurous woman too - the protagonist's future wife is more badass as a teenager than most of the other characters are as adults, and has the same soft spot for protecting children that Cordelia does)
So yeah I find it interesting how basically the same situation is perceived very differently across the two series, and it may be because of the tone difference (The Lymond Chronicles can be a lot more... vicious than Vorkosigan, even though honestly they contain like 80% of the same themes and character types... I always describe Vorkosigan as 50% Bujold reads Dunnett and 50% Bujold reads Heyer), but more than anything it's just cool to see how these two women, who are a generation (Dunnett was born in 1923, Bujold in 1949) and an ocean and a social class apart, and both way way older than myself, interpret the exact same setup. Especially because Vorkosigan leans more conservative despite being written 30 years later.