what would you have me do?

I remember waaaaaay back in like october i had this whole long post drafted talking abt why I didn't think the ladynoir conflict was leading up to some grand fallout with chat noir leaving and was actually more about addressing their insecurities and letting them grow closer. I ended up never posting that bc I have no time ever and didn't have the energy to make things coherent

anyway fast forward to kuro neko/the finale when the whiniest parts of the fandom decided to whine about how the show actually ~doesn't let chat noir get angry~ and ~makes chat noir apologize for his feelings~ and that the way the ladynoir conflict wrapped up in the finale was unsatisfying etc. etc. because it didn't lead to some grand fallout with chat noir telling ladybug how much she sucks and having her beg on her knees for forgiveness, and instead .... led to Ladybug learning about and understanding Chat Noir's insecurities and realizing that he's a lot more sensitive and insecure than she thought he was and them growing closer because of it

hm. yea

Look, if season 4 ended with the resolution of the ladynoir conflict being in kuro neko. I would have been annoyed and I would complain that it was handled poorly.

But it ended in strikeback.

Ladybug acknowledges all of her mistakes. Especially how she treated Chat noir. But you want to know what makes it great?

Ladybug isn’t asking for forgiveness here. Not because she doesn’t think she needs to, but because she thinks she doesn’t deserve it. In fact she lists all the reasons why he shouldn’t be by her side. She tells him that he of ALL people should have turned on her. How she failed. This isn’t some plot for forgiveness. This is remorse and confusion.

But chat noir looks past that. And he reaches out to her. He comforts her, he assures her that they will get the miraculous back together.

Now people are saying Adrien is being demeaned and stuck as “Ladybug’s loyal dog” and to that I say.

Chat noir was clearly angry with Ladybug. The beginning of strikeback showed that. He was hurt when he saw how she acted with Flairmidable.

Chat noir felt betrayed finding out about Rena rouge/furtive.

He was saddened when he was told to stay out of the fight.

Adrien/Chat noir was angry with ladybug and he let her know it.

And he saw ladybug breakdown. He saw her break when she realized the betrayal. He heard her cry and flee.

Adrien understood that what Ladybug was going through was unimaginable. And you know what, he knows the feeling. Of losing everything.

He saw Ladybug breakdown and saw her hurting, seeing her at a point lower than ever before. And people wanted chat noir to yell at her and tell her how wrong she was?!

Y’all forget two things.

1. Chat noir loves Ladybug. He loves her so much that it hurts. He would do what it takes to help her.

2. And this is a big one. ADRIEN IS EMPATHETIC! He could see what Ladybug was going through. He knew she needed someone to be there for her. She didn’t have the other heroes. She didn’t have the other kwami. He was the only one that could.

He knows her actions weren’t malicious. He knows that she was just trying her best to keep everything from falling apart. She was trying to keep control.

Chat noir is a hero, he sees her broken. He loves her so much that he looks past the mistakes. He forgives her and tells her that they will fix it together.

Fuck… that is love right there.

People just can’t understand that kind of deep love where you can be hurt but knowing that hurt wasn’t intended.

Love is patient

Love is kind

Love is enduring

Love is healing

Love is understanding

And

Love is forgiving

YES. I loved Adrien in that scene! Ladybug did some things wrong, but she never meant to hurt him. And as deeply as she was hurting there, he wasn’t going to kick her while she was down. He can empathize, see things from her POV, and even while angry or upset or frustrated with her, he NEVER wants her to suffer or hurt like that - that’s not the kind of person he is, nor the kind of person I’d want him to be. 

Now, this isn’t the end of everything - those issues still exist. Their partnership is still uneven, and the things Ladybug laid out, with not listening to him, lying to him, pushing him away - they still happened, and need to be resolved. Things need to change, so they’re truly partners, in a way that they just weren’t this season.

But tearing into Ladybug wouldn’t help. Vengeance and suffering - that’s no way to repair a relationship. And right then, Chat just wanted to help comfort His Lady, one of the people he cared about most in the world. 

Post-reveal love square would laugh in the face of anyone who says that they think Ladrien is bad and creepy and embarrassing. Sorry babes I don't make the rules, you just gotta stan Ladrien now

Adrien being a civilian in Ladybug's presence and being a flustered mess who cannot handle it, not just because this is the love of his life who isn't aware that she is the love of his lowly civilian life but is also his best friend who he can't treat like his best friend because Chat Noir is the one who shoots puns and jokes exclusively for Ladybug's ears but still treating the superhero of Paris with the same amount of respect and devotion he would as Chat Noir even as a civilian is a concept for galaxy brained people

No I'm not done: on the other hand Ladybug being in a position where she has to be around the boy she completely purely genuinely adores and flubs her words as a civilian but she can't do that right now or even get away with it because right now she is Paris' Superhero and she's got to do her duty and she does it with a fierce amount of indulgence and protectiveness for him but she can't let him know that she's being preferential when it comes to his safety because he can't know that she loves him and it comes full circle again because hiding how much she loves him is even harder as Ladybug much more than it is as Marinette, because Marinette can hide behind mispronounced words and half worded sentences and phrases or presents or letters, but Ladybug can't - also a concept for galaxy brained people

Season 5 better come through with this

look I said it before but I'm actually entirely okay with the lack of Ladrien in S4 because the reason for that is that Ladrien was literally the solution to everything. The moment that Ladybug was around Adrien, she showed how vulnerable she really is, and he saw how much he's really needed, which are the two things they needed to do all season and didn't.

Ladrien is the solution

That makes me realise how ironic it is that people get a kick out of calling ladrien being fake and putting on an act to be perfect, only for them to be at their most vulnerable and loving in canon

Do yall think when Chat said "We'll make sure this never happens again" he wasn't just talking about the kwamis, he was also talking about him and her and their relationship?

it's not about characters getting to yell at each other 👏🏼 it's not about who's right and wrong 👏🏼 it's not about characters getting what they "deserve" 👏🏼 it's about each of them growing to better understand the other's fears and point of view 👏🏼 it's about them knowing they'll be able to fix things between them because above all else they care about each other 👏🏼 it's about how even when things are strained between them they will always be there when the other needs them 👏🏼 because that's how love works 👏🏼 oh my god 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

i understand wanting cn to tell lb that he felt neglected but expecting him to lash out on her and physically/emotionally/verbally hurt her out of spite ain’t it. it’s not gonna happen because that’s not who he is and thank the stars for that. stop projecting your hate and anger on a cartoon kid.

I just love that even when they're arguing they still save each other

You just woke up bushy....your brain is not ready yet.....you cant go on a rant about how the ladynoir conflict was never going to be this big drawn out argument because these two literally can't not love and support each other so of course it only lasted a few episode and was finished by the end of the season so saying it was resolved too quickly is not "evidence" of bad writing ajsjgjakkd

i can’t believe people are still upset about chat noir’s dialogue at the end of kuro neko

the show isn’t saying chat noir was acting temperamental, that’s his own assessment of his behavior. and considering that adrien was going through a depressive episode, him describing himself as temperamental fits. oftentimes mood disorders can feel like this even to the person experiencing them, where you can’t understand why your mood shifts or why you’re feeling so bad, but you do. your feelings are real but they feel wrong because they’re too much and you can’t explain them to yourself let alone anyone else. and that plus years and years of gabriel reinforcing that his feelings are invalid and inconvenient… he’s not going to suddenly get over all that because he had some nice bonding moments with plagg.

and yeah, ladybug didn’t correct him, but from her perspective this was an out-of-the-blue decision, because he still hasn’t really talked to her about what was bothering him. and she’s not really qualified to initiate some massive cognitive restructuring anyway.

maybe this scene wasn’t entirely satisfying (and i hope it wasn’t meant to be, because there’s so much still to address), but some of the reactions i’ve seen to his dialogue sounds like y’all missed the 101 class where they told us about unreliable narrators

I watched Kuro Neko a good while ago but am still on the feels train.

"I'm sorry, I've been a bad captain, I've been playing a solo game" enough with the foreshadowing it hurrrrttssss

also some of you are crying wolf about the ladynoir scene in the beginning way too much like it could not be more obvious that they're setting up for a more heated moment about the exact problem that's been addressed but not solved since kuro neko

The ladynoir scene at the start of Risk was really, really good (and not only because of the cheek kiss though it does play into it) and super foreshadowing 👀

Kuro Neko allowed Adrien to understand more about himself, who he is, his place in the team, etc. It made him understand that even if he's not always useful to a mission, he's wanted, and that was super important.

But this only brushed one aspect of the overall Ladynoir conflict, and it has very much not been resolved yet. And the starting scene of Risk is perfect for that:

=> he has accepted he's just another member, but that doesn't mean that he's satisfied with this, and this is making it very clear.

To which Ladybug does & says this:

=> Marinette here still camps on her position that as the guardian, only she (and Alya, but Chat Noir doesn't completely know that) can know the heroes identities or collect the miraculous. She makes no indication that she's planning on for this to change. The cheek kiss is really cute, but it's a way of brushing off Chat Noir's complaints by telling him something she knows he'll be happy to hear, and reassuring him affectionately as she knows he's been affected about feeling left out recently.

And that's definitely gonna come and bite them in the neck next episode, which is furthered by the presence of Rena Furtive and Marinette asking her to do what Chat Noir asked for. The problem isn't much that Marinette chose Alya for that task instead of him: it's that she doesn't let him know that and is still hiding crucial information from him.

And with an akuma like Risk unknowingly affecting them, there's no way that it won't force them to have a much needed discussion or to be uninhibited about how they feel about their current dynamic. Especially because this finale is making it clear that it's a lot about Adrien standing up for himself more. Considering all the secrets that have piled up this season (Nino telling Adrien about Carapace and Rena, Alya telling Nino about Rena Furtive, Marinette making everything for Chat Noir to not know about Rena Furtive and insisting that he can't know the other holders while both Rena and Hawkmoth do, etc etc), and the Risk akuma roaming around, it's bound to explode. Marinette will have to change the way she approach the guardian role, one way or another, because this goes beyond simply "Chat Noir feeling left out" (which has been dealt with a lot in Kuro Neko: it gave Adrien the guarantee that he's wanted. Now that he's aware of it, it should help him in being less afraid to bring up his feelings to Ladybug - or he will probably speak with Risk, because it's clear that there are things in their dynamic that he isn't still quite satisfied with).

So to me, this Ladynoir interaction at the start is really important and well done because it's showing very efficiently everything that still has to be resolved between them, and it shows everything that has the potential to go wrong with an akuma like Risk around while they're not aware of it

i need ladybug and chat noir to just have their big fight already so they can kiss and makeup

i need them to Scream and Fight so they can Kiss in the Rain

so in love that they act insane 😌✨✨✨

Me if the ladynoir conflict has been completely resolved after Kuro neko

Reminder that Marinette and Adrien are end game and even if they have rough patches this show is about them learning to live and love and grow and they are gonna come out of every conflict stronger and its gonna be okay guys

This response by @thelibraryloser is the best way to put this

ml season 4: ladynoir is going to have a big fight

ml fandom after trailer of the fight:

LISTEN JUST CAUSE WE KNEW DOESNT ME WE WANTED IT