This is an excellent demonstration of the immorality of the Xian belief system, and the fallacies, mental gymnastics, abuse and gaslighting upon which it is built.
Hell is separation from God.
Also, that’s all I ever wanted want. Freedom from your stupid god myths.
And God is the source of life, peace, joy, and wellness.
No. Not only have “life, peace, joy, and wellness” been found in cultures that have never heard of your god, but belief in your god has spawned centuries of human misery and bloodshed. Human culture is becoming more peaceful, more joyous, more well... ful, as religiosity decreases. Human life expectancy, quality of life and freedom are explicitly correlated with a decline in religiosity.
So, no. Your god’s own book describes is rampage of genocide and death and destruction and misery, either commanded by it or perpetrated by it directly. That’s why Xians hurriedly skim over the Old Testament as if it never happened (well, it didn’t, but, you know).
He’s not a crazy man forcing you to love Him.
Sure he is. In fact, as we’ll see in a moment, it’s literally the only thing he does care about.
He created the rules of how we are (purportedly) judged, he came up with the two extreme outcomes, didn’t put in any gradation, and offers both the rescue and the threat. Like any extortionist.
If you say no, very well. You’ll have your wish, and have no one to blame but yourself.
When the mafia boss offers you the option of paying up, if you say “no”, very well, you have your wish to have your knees broken, and have no one to blame but yourself.
That’s your god. Your god is the same as a mafia boss. Your god makes the exact same threat/offer as a mafia boss. Your god is a mafia boss. Luckily, it’s an imaginary mafia boss.
Despite the mafia boss creating this dilemma in the first place. A dilemma which is designed merely to bestow your god with more and more applause.
A perfect thing needs nothing. Your god who punishes for failing to fill its need for applause is on imperfect god. A god that was worthy of praise wouldn’t need it. A god that needed it wouldn’t be worthy of it.
The entire threat is worship and applaud and praise and extoll me, or be punished. One does not even need to be moral or good, as long as, like the mafia, you’re its buddy.
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Or in other words, you can do anything you like as long as you’re mobbed up.
free will
You people say this, and yet let’s not be intellectually dishonest here.
As we’ve already seen, your god doesn’t care about anything in the human realm. it will forgive literally any act, not matter how barbarous, committed against humans. Indeed, it offers to forgive you without you ever having to seek forgiveness from the one you harmed.
The only thing that is unforgivable is not worshipping it. Literally, the only thing. It cares about nothing else. What’s the first Commandment?
I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Nothing about “life, peace, joy, and wellness”. The #1 rule has nothing to do with humans as agents. “The most important thing of all, above all else, is me.” Your god is a malignant narcissist. I’m not being hyperbolic here. Your god matches the pathology. Go read it.
Kernberg described malignant narcissism as a syndrome characterized by a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), antisocial features, paranoid traits, and egosyntonic aggression. Other symptoms may include an absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity). Psychoanalyst George H. Pollock wrote in 1978: "The malignant narcissist is presented as pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation with characteristic demonstrations of joyful cruelty and sadism".
But thou, O Lord, shalt laugh at them; thou shalt have all the heathen in derision.
I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
Now, lets try something. Use your free will to sincerely believe that Kaheless is the way to Sto-vo-kor. Use your free will to sincerely embrace the way of the warrior. Use your free will to sincerely reject the cowardice that will send you to Gre’thor on the Barge of the Dead.
Go on. Just for a few minutes. Use your free will. I dare you.
This is just a buzzword. You can’t demonstrate it, nor justify how you use it. It’s dishonest. I could no more use my free will to bring myself to believe that your silly god is real than you could use yours to believe in Kahless, the Easter Bunny or a cabal of cats conspiring to steal all of Earth’s laser pointers.
It is not my free will that is the problem. It’s the validity of your claim. You’re trying to make your failure to justify your god claim into my failing. I’m not so gullible as that. You cannot justify the existence of your god, and instead of considering why, you pretend it’s a “free will” issue. It’s not. It’s that your god is a myth that you hold only by faith.
My non-belief is the fault of your god, for refusing to exist. Or at least, demonstrate its existence -- without absurd platitudes like “look around you!!” that work for any god or any other creation myth.
You have to be saved from your own god. A religion which is based on the fear of what that god will do. A fear-based religion. Because, let’s be honest here: you’re trying to save me from your god.
One of the most common things I ever hear from apostates is that even when they stop believing these silly god myths, they still retain a terror of hell, even though they don’t believe it even exists. It’s one of the abuses of your religion that takes the longest to get over.
Your religion is based on fear. It is a fear-based belief falsely masquerading as loving.
you have no one to blame but yourself.
I wonder how many abused children still have that still ringing in their ears: “look what you made me do to you.” That’s the same thing as what you just said. You just repeated the rationalization of an abuser.
Your god is an abusive parent. It’s time to reconsider your morality.
Your god created everything. So your god created this perverted system. It created the threat, and it created the resolution. There is no part of it that your god is not entirely responsible for. Saying that “you have no one to blame” is literally a lie. You’re casting your god of all power as a god of no responsibility. It can create a system and take no responsibility for its outcome.
Your god is in charge of the universe, everything in it and its functioning, and yet it’s the human who made the god do something? Have you ever actually thought about this?
What you’re actually saying is that your god is incompetent. It cannot be held accountable, because it’s incapable of responsibility, and that responsibility must be shouldered by others who are capable of it. To others who had no hand in the choices your god made, the actions it took. You’re saying that humans are a superior being, because they can shoulder that responsibility, while your deficient god cannot.
You’ve infantalized your own god.
And done so in possibly the most profoundly immoral way. I can’t believe how corrupt and immoral your belief system is. How corrupted and perverted your own moral compass is that you think punishment for eternity is justified for sincerely seeing no more reason to believe in your god than the Easter Bunny or the cat cabal.
God’s not forcing you into hell,
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Saying the bible is wrong is a bold move. Especially given it’s the only source of your fandom’s mythology.
But if you’re determined to insist the bible is wrong, well, okay.
you’re jumping in of your own free will.
Didn’t you say that hell was merely separation from your god? What am I “jumping in” to? You said that your god is merely going to deny me its presence. Okay, so how I already perceive the world. How am I “jumping in” to your god not being anywhere? This doesn’t even make any sense. (I suspect you’ve accidentally reverted to the lava and fire version of hell you denied.)
If it doesn’t concern you that the hells of other religions are separation from their gods, why should I be concerned about separation from yours?
In any event, I choose neither. I choose not to participate or jump anywhere. I choose to notice that the gun your god holds to my head, and the hand holding it are both imaginary.
Now what? Either I have free will, or you’re lying.
Which is to say, you’re lying for an imaginary psychotic, extortionist blood-god. Because if there is a default for non-participation, then you already know your god is the one responsible, the mafia boss holding the gun. You kind of can’t get away from that.
Defending evil and immorality associates you with that evil and immorality.
If your god exists and is loving and just, then I have nothing to worry about. It will be above such human vanities as applause, more just than eternal punishment for temporal slights, more sophisticated than two extreme outcomes, and beyond needing my belief in order to justify its own existence.
“Only a Christian could think it’s dangerous to not believe in an ‘all loving’ god.”
-- MrOzAtheist
