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Random Thought Depository

@random-thought-depository / random-thought-depository.tumblr.com

Science fiction fan and aspiring science fiction author. 39 year old male. I made this because I wanted a place to put my random thoughts.
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Being human obviously brings the immense species privilege of being part of a species a high-tech civilization was built by and for, but even if I think about it just in terms of the body or the kind of existence very low-tech early Pleistocene humans might have had being a human definitely seems like a top-tier version of the experience of being an animal.

Compared to an average mammal a human lives longer, is bigger and therefore more powerful and less vulnerable, has awesome manipulatory organs, is smarter and therefore better at getting what they want and less vulnerable, can probably eat a wider variety of foods (and therefore is probably less vulnerable to food insecurity), and probably has a more fun sex life cause we evolved to do social/playful sexuality.

Think about how much harder to fix and more irritating something as trivial as having something sticky and irritating stuck to your ass might be if you were a dog!

And if you consider even the most basic human sociality the comparison gets even more unfavorable to being almost anything but a human. As a member of a very highly K-selected social species, a human in even a very technologically primitive society would get way more help from conspecifics than most animals and would be much more likely to survive to adulthood than most animals. Plus, even at low levels of technology human intelligence enables us to create superstimuli and complex pleasures unavailable to most animals; something as simple as "that meat might taste better with some salt on it" is quite beyond the wolf.

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Today is my mother's partner's 91st birthday!

I got him a cake.

Thinking about what it'd be like to be really old makes me viscerally feel how awful it is that we're basically built to fall apart. I think...

It'd be neat to have lived so long and experienced so much and have seen so much change...

But he must realize he's probably going to die soon, and that would certainly cause me to feel fear and sadness if I was him. I know he's not as healthy and strong as he used to be, I can see how everyday life has become more of a struggle for him. I suspect he has substantial aging-related physical pain, though it's hard to tell cause he's the kind of person who keeps a lot to himself. Maybe he's at peace with all that, I hope so, it's hard to tell cause as I said he's a person who keeps a lot to himself. It seems like having a body that's deteriorating like that is probably kind of awful, but the people who get to experience that are the lucky ones, because getting to experience all the bad things about being in your 90s means you're still alive in your 90s and lots of people don't get that; I would take being disabled and in pain over being dead.

Senescence is a horrible disease and I hope someday we'll invent a cure for it. How wonderful it would be to have lived that long and experienced that much and still have all your health and strength and a long future ahead of you! I hope someday that will be a real human experience! I'm thinking of this post I saw once about octopuses, how they're very intelligent for nonhuman animals but don't live very long, and imagine what they might be like if they got more time to learn, think, experience, experiment, and do things. When I think about the experience of very old humans I think about that post; I think very long-lived aliens or very long-lived fantasy elves might feel about old humans the way that person felt about octopuses.

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Does the President still eat turkey on Thanksgiving after doing the Presidential turkey pardon? I feel like it'd be much more symbolically resonant if the President ate a vegetarian Thanksgiving dinner afterward. I think that'd be a really neat ritual! The leader has to ritually perform extraordinary compassion by showing mercy to a being that would usually receive none and giving up something important to do so. It's a lot less affecting if it's just moving the turkey-killing around.

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Accidentally deleted this a couple of days back:

Me watching some pigeons do what I think might have been courtship grooming outside my window:

Huh, a lot of birds do cooperative parenting, right? Humans are kind of bird-like that way. I guess it's cause eggs are fragile and need brooding.

No, reptiles and amphibians lay eggs too and I don't think they do cooperative parenting as much, so I don't think it's just that.

Oh, it's cause birds fly (except for some flightless birds that are descended from birds that flew) and flying is hard and it's hard to make an animal that can fly right out of the egg, isn't it? Human children need to be fed, protected, and cared for while their big brains grow and fill with information. Bird chicks need to be fed, protected, and cared for while they grow the muscles and neural machinery they need to fly.

That's the fundamental similarity: a survival strategy that locks in a need for a long period of vulnerability and dependence during development!

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“Saying that someone is evil is not constructive – it makes dialogue with them impossible.”

Yes, but I’m not going to avoid describing people who consistently choose to do evil things, clearly descendant from particular algorithms they have chosen to run for a particular purpose, as evil, just because it makes it harder to dialogue with them. I’m not trying to make psychiatrists like me.

What Daryl Davis is doing is cool, but there’s no obligation on me to do that instead of fighting more directly, nor would polluting my epistemics around modelling people persistently across time help me even if I were trying to be Daryl Davis.

taking away someone’s ability to do evil things seems more important than reforming their morality, and it’s probably easier…

yes, I agree! but we should model that specific people will continue to try to do evil things because they have made choices to do those evil things that are persistent across time, not mechanistically describe behaviors that they do that absolve them of responsibility. and we shouldn’t rely on systems manned by evil people to output good results regardless of how good the formal rules are.

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argumate

sure, but once the soldiers that committed war crimes in Afghanistan came home they stopped committing war crimes, even if they had persistent issues with spousal abuse or addiction problems or suicide or whatever, the option to commit multiple extrajudicial executions simply wasn’t available to them any more and was no longer an issue for society at large.

people obviously have consistent traits but those traits are expressed according to the social context they find themselves in, and since it’s a lot easier to change social context than personality traits (without a railroad spike) that seems to be the most important thing to focus on.

like the question I would be asking is whether support for involuntary commitment is purely coming from psychiatrists themselves as a group, or if society demands a way of making people disappear on the grounds that they are fucking crazy, whether it’s having them arrested by cops or committed by doctors, and if so how that demand would shift expression if one such avenue was closed off.

who wants it, who benefits from it, who enacts it, the person at the end who signs off on it is downstream of all of this (which does not absolve them of responsibility, any more than the soldier who pulls the trigger and murders a prisoner, but it’s still important to figure out why we put the soldier there in the first place if we really don’t want it to happen).

This reminds me of something I read and don’t remember well anymore, something like removing people from their normal web of social connections and social feedback is how people who were regular nice guys in Scandinavia could become terrible bloodthirsty Vikings after they hopped off a longship in England.

David Graeber talked about slavery as removing people from their normal social contexts and dumping them in a new context where normal social relationships aren’t available to them, and it occurs to me that soldiers invading a foreign country are subject to something like the same process. In the case of slavery this social disconnection allows other people to hurt the slave, in the case of invasion this social disconnection allows the soldier to hurt other people; there’s a certain symmetry of opposites there.

And thinking about it in these terms, I wonder if you could apply the same idea to cops, psychiatrists, teachers, social workers, etc.. On the one hand it seems more like those relationships are part of the normal web of social relationships, like parental authority; they’re not some abnormality, they’re part of the bedrock of normal society. On the other hand ... there is often kind of an element of that sort of disconnection there, isn’t there? For example, a teacher doesn’t relate to students the way a parent relates to their children, or even the way a relative supervising a large number of children in an extended family set-up would. A teacher really is fundamentally disconnected from and “above” the social networks of their students in a sense (the mental image that comes to my mind for this is the sun above a horizontal spider-web).

And an impression I’ve gotten from stuff I’ve heard is a lot of the places where the police have the worst relationships with the community are places where the police function more like an occupying army than an organic part of the community; they don’t live in the neighborhood, they don’t have any friends or relatives in the neighborhood, they’re a different ethnicity from the people in the neighborhood, etc..

I don’t know where I’m going with this.

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I would like to wish everyone an uneventful new year

May we live in very uninteresting times

Something one of my characters said in a story I wrote four years ago:

“I want boring ... I want to have a boring life and a boring reign over a boring country until I leave the company of the living in a boring way and then to be remembered with a boring chronicle. A boring reign is one in which there are no disasters. A boring life is a life in which one’s family is not slaughtered, one’s home is not destroyed, one’s body is not mutilated, one does not have to fight. A boring country is one in which there are no wars and no plagues and no famines. A boring way of leaving the world is in bed, gently, in old age. A boring companion is one with whom you do not have frequent bitter quarrels that make you cry even as you love them. A boring lover is one who does not rape you. A boring chronicle is the record of a reign in which everything went alright. Boredom is not properly appreciated by the likes of you!”

Thinking about 2020, I think about what I wrote there.

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docholligay

Jewish, Muslim, and other non-culturally-Christian kids shouldn’t have to lie about Santa.

It’s time for me to get more anti-Semitic hatemail! With a topic very near and dear to my heart: The way so many Non-culturally-Christian (NCC herein) families and tiny little children have to bend themselves in order to carry the lie Culturally Christian families want to maintain about Santa. 

If you are here to tell me “We tell our kids that Santa is a part of MAGIC, and he’s about the SPIRIT of Christmas, and so he IS real for some people, and then we teach about NICE LIES” please rest assured that I do not care. I also do not care for you to tell me how non-religious your Christmas is, if you have Santa, you’re still doing Christian culture. Just, stop. Please, I’m begging you. 

If you do Santa, please listen to me, because this is written for you, in a lot of ways. 

I feel so sad this time of year because all my Jewish groups are full of parents strategizing about how to keep children that are around THREE TO FIVE from “ruining Christmas magic” for others, and how much have we bought into assimilation that we believe this is our JOB? That our very small children with whom I would not expect to keep something a secret between dinner and dessert are meant to carry the burden of this cultural albatross for a culture that already overwhelms their every day? 

My fellow NCC people: If you really want to participate in the Santa Lie, I’m not going to stop you. This is your choice, choose your life, choose your choices. A great many people I respect give their kids some song and dance about it being a “fun pretend game” that Christians play, and while I might quibble that a fun pretend game means both sides know it’s pretend, that’s your choice. 

But I also want you to ask yourselves: Why should we feel like we have to? Because we clearly do! If we didn’t feel like we had to, you wouldn’t be putting so much emotional energy into it, I wouldn’t be writing this knowing I was gonna get some more fun comments about being a kike, and our kids wouldn’t have to worry about telling the goddamn truth. I cannot be the only NCC person who feels this way, and I can’t even be the first one to SHARE these feelings, but I’m telling you, so you know: You do not need to pick this up for your children. 

Christmas runs, in the US, from late October to January. It’s the fucking fourth quarter. Those of you who are culturally Christian cannot possibly understand how aggravating and tiring this entire thing becomes, especially when you have kids and you have to deal with the fact that they are SATURATED with this feeling of otherness. When you get older, it’s easy to deal with, but when you’re tiny? It’s hard enough when supposedly non-religious schools are doing doves and trees and santa crafts, singing “holiday songs” (Christmas carols) and the like. I can’t pull my kids out of school for 6 weeks. 

And then we add them being villainized for telling the truth about Santa. Even though I tell my child the rest of the year that the truth is important. You cannot want diversity among your friends, and for your child to experience diverse friendships, and then hold that you deserve to live in a bubble every final quarter where your kids runs no risk of finding people who believe differently. Culturally Christian parents should not be holding NCC kids accountable for breaking the Santa myth. They’re literal children. It is not their job to construct this for you. 

But Doc, how would you feel if someone told your kids the Tooth Fairy isn’t real, or God? 1) We don’t do the tooth fairy, because I feel not great ways about that! 2) Jewlet will know plenty of people who don’t believe in God. 3) It is fucking HILARIOUS to me that you think Jewlet will not meet with a majority of people who don’t support and share our family’s beliefs. 

I’m asking all culturally Christian parents I know to do better. Please don’t tell me how worried you are that Jewlet will “spoil Christmas” for your kids. Please reconsider making children responsible for something you’ve chosen to set up, and don’t villainize kids who come from NCC families for telling the truth about what they believe. 

NCC families: You don’t have to keep doing this. I know it really feels like you do, especially if you have an interfaith family with cousins who do Santa. But you don’t. 

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lilietsblog

this whole thing is so fucking wild to me

culturally christian here

ukrainian

no-one I have ever met ever believed, or tried to make me believe, that Grandpa Frost (Santa Claus post-soviet de-chistianized version) is real

…admittedly this might be partially post-soviet legacy but

well, it is what it is, and I’ve grown up knowing that these were fICTIONAL CHARACTERS

there was actually this nice space of ‘i mean they are fictional but also *eyebrow wiggle* maybe not’ abt house spirits and the like, cute cozy superstitions

but actually maintaining lies like that? i dont think thats a thing at all and just

hi the magic of the holiday is 100% preserved without lies

children like games of pretend and are 100% down with consciously pretending they are being given presents by an old man in a winter coat who only comes around once a year

they also like when once a year in school/kindergarten one of them dresses up as that man and theres a whole play about it for New Year

its magical! its wonderful! its cool!

(it also completely doesnt need christianity i swear its 90% the same custom minus Jesus and THERE WAS SO LITTLE JESUS TO TAKE OUT ACTUALLY)

Tl;Dr if you want to lie to your kids, fine. But don’t require other people to lie and treat them as doing something wrong for telling the truth.

When other children (and their parents) get upset at me for saying that Santa was not real I let them know that I was happy to stay quiet about my opinion as long as they stayed quiet about theirs.

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soulvomit

This is legit why I had few friends as a child. 

Yeah, I don’t think the central good parts of Christmas are contained in children having a literal belief in Santa Claus. As @lilietsblog said, children enjoy games of pretend that are openly acknowledged as games of pretend! I think the Santa mythos Christmas culture would basically work fine if we were all honest with children and told them the truth: there’s no literal fat guy in a red suit who lives at the north pole named Santa Claus, the presents from “Santa” are actually from your parents, Santa Claus is a metaphor and part of some fun games.

That would make it more like Halloween in a way, I think? I mean, with Halloween it’s pretty openly acknowledged that the monster costumes are just costumes, the Halloween decorations are just decorations, etc.; there doesn’t seem to be the same strong expectation that children will go through a phase where the think the pretend-play parts of the holiday are literally true, and there doesn’t seem to be the same culture of deliberately prolonging such a phase. Children have lots of fun on Halloween anyway! And from what @lilietsblog said, Christmas seems to work fine in countries that don’t have a Christmas culture built around an assumed childhood phase of literal belief in Santa Claus/the local Santa-equivalent.

I mean, if children are having fun believing in Santa I’m inclined to say let them have their fun, I wouldn’t go out of my way to correct them if they’re an age where a literal belief in Santa Claus is common and it isn’t causing any problems and they’re having fun ... but the OP describes a real problem and the way Christmas works in Ukraine based on @lilietsblog‘s description seems like a better equilibrium to me; the problem the OP talks about wouldn’t exist in a culture that handles this issue the way Ukranians do. The nice thing about telling people the truth right from the start is you don’t have to worry about what might happen if they discover the truth independently!

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Today in a conversation, my mother said, “Santa, the Christ-child.” And she’s German and I think she was making references both to Santa Claus and to European traditions in which the Christmas gift-giver figure is the Christ-child or an Angel, but now I’m amused by the idea of Santa as an aspect of Jesus.

I mean, I think if you explained the basic concept of Christmas to an alien and then let them observe US-American Christmas, they’d likely assume something like that was the case! It’d be more straightforward than the truth, which is “this holiday is ostensibly about Jesus, but the limelight has shifted to a mythological character who’s technically supposed to be Saint Nicholas of Myrna, but it’s Saint Nicholas of Myrna after 1700 years of cultural drift and syncretism have made him almost unrecognizable, so actually it’s a folk mythology character only very tenuously connected to Saint Nicholas of Myrna.”

I guess there’s a lesson in that for speculative fiction writers: religions and cultures often include traditions and ideas with non-straightforward twisty histories.

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It’s interesting to try to figure out how the Amentan hair caste thing started, and why it’s so widespread. After all, colors are culturally constructed, and it doesn’t really make sense that multiple independent cultures would come up with it out of thin air. I think that its widespread nature is strong evidence for a common cultural ancestor- or for an actual biological basis for hair color correlation with skill.

The hypothesis that there’s a common cultural ancestor for the hair color thing doesn’t explain why the hair color thing developed at all. There’s no reason for all of the manual-labor-doing people to be grey-haired, after all, unless there’s something that links manual labor with grey hair initially. I would also expect that the different countries would have begun to develop different caste systems if it was all just culture.

So the simplest explanation is that hair color correlates biologically with skill.

The next interesting aspect of this is that, probably, society doesn’t really start out with all of these castes. If we’re assuming a reasonably Earth-like progression, probably the Amentan societies started out doing hunting and gathering. But then they settled down and did agriculture. After this, or maybe before, the people who wanted power/were good at administration/whatever, who had blue-haired genes, started to stratify power and amass large grain storages (or whatever). That was the first split. The blue-haireds ran things and the farming class was composed of people of various hair colors.

So then after that they needed people to keep track of everyday stuff. These people were predominantly yellow-gened. And then after that, maybe a significant while after that, the greens - most of whom were part of the proto-yellows - started to do art in order to contribute to religion and adulation of the blues.

And so on and so forth. I think that it’s likely that the oranges emerged from the yellows, and that the purples emerged rather late from the proto-greys. It’s also possible that different societies had different castes emerge at different times.

I also think that the reds emerged extremely early, since the idea of pollution seems very well-ingrained (though it could be one of those Victorian Era type things that everyone thinks is really super old but which totally isn’t). Moreover, if either the biological basis or the proto-society hypotheses are true, then the reds must have emerged early; waste and human refuse have been around since the beginning, after all.

Running with the “biological basis” thing, it’s possible that the proto-reds have an unusually high tolerance for disgusting things, and that perhaps this was initially correlated with criminality or something, explaining their low status.

Now I want to make a caste-hbd rp, except that I’m fairly sure that that’s within the Amentan Overton Window.

@luminousalicorn Does this check out?

Disclaimer: this is all based on this and some light Tumblr osmosis, I very possibly have gotten a lot of things very wrong.

- I don’t think you need anything extra to explain why reds are low-status, the fact that they have to touch dirt and are therefore associated with dirt in a society that’s neurotic about cleanliness is enough. Just look at the historical precedent. I think reds probably started out as the losers in the increasing inequality of early agricultural society, who ended up doing the most unpleasant and low-status jobs because that’s usually the role low-status people end up in.

- I think there may be significant neurotype differences between Amenta humans and Homo sapiens. The extreme aversion to dirt and elegant rigid social structure characterized by at-a-glance class legibility both read autism-ish to me. Amenta humans have lower sexual dimorphism than Homo sapiens, live twice as long, and have different breeding patterns, all of which suggests different evolutionary pressures. I think the average Amenta neurotype may be autistic-adjacent by Homo sapiens standards.

- The whole thing looks like the result of a selective breeding program by some ruling class who wanted their slaves color-coded for easy branding. It would explain a lot if Amenta humanity was once a slave race. Or maybe they did it to themselves by their sheer desire for easy class legibility. I wonder if originally hair color only very loosely correlated with caste, and the present arrangement started out as that thing reactionary movements do where they invent an idealized past that never actually existed and then seek to recreate it. Just have somebody invent the meme that different castes being visually indistinct is a kind of degeneracy and in the proper ideal social order of the ancestors you could tell caste just by looking at somebody, and a few millennia of social pressure and assortative mating might make it real, hardening caste lines from something like feudal classes to something like racial lines in the process. The process might have originally started as a reaction against increasing class mobility by conservatives during Amenta world’s equivalent of the Axial Age (some ancient Amentan analog of Julius Evola may have a lot to answer for).

- Orange and red are similar colors, and the messiness of real hominid features will probably make them even easier to confuse than an abstract color-wheel comparison would suggest. Having your empath caste look similar to your untouchable caste seems awkward. It seems interesting to consider the possibility they’re actually related though. High empathy and being less fussy about dirt might both be helpful in animal domestication, and animal tending would plausibly have been considered a dirty job in early farming communities.

- I remember reading somewhere that early Chinese states had problems keeping the peasants from running away into the wilderness, beyond the reach of the state. I get the impression this was a common reaction to oppressive state power historically. In the Americas escaped black slaves would run away beyond the frontiers of European control and form their own communities or assimilate into indigenous communities. Even today “get a cabin in the woods” is associated with radical escape from state society. Early states were often basically experienced by their subjects as glorified thieves, you lost little by running away, and the world had big swathes of habitable territory that weren’t under the control of a state until pretty recently in history. In Amenta rigid caste systems likely went hand in hand with state power; bureaucracies like their easy legibility, and a complicated rigid caste system is just the kind of thing that works better in big communities. I expect there would have been a persistent trickle of low caste people deciding to opt out by voting with their feet. That would probably have meant mostly purples (generic peasants were purple) and reds. Especially reds. Early state society would offer reds basically nothing but poverty, humiliation, and violent oppression. Red Island sounds utopian in the context of the modern world, where there basically are no frontiers anymore, but in many historical contexts it would have been quite feasible.

- Where do nomadic hunter-gatherers and pastoral nomads fit into this? I’d assume ancestral hunter-gatherers would have been caste-less with an even mix of colors or mostly one color with the others rare random variation (the ancestral color was probably purple, or maybe grey - warrior and hunter have a fair amount of overlap - or maybe in ancestral hunter-gatherers it varied with ecological context, people in groups that got most of their calories from plants being mostly purple, people in groups that got most of their calories from big game being mostly grey). The thing I observed in the previous two paragraphs makes things more interesting though; a lot of hunter-gatherers and pastoral nomads might be descended from settled agriculturalists who ran away from the expansion of state power and the caste system. Especially, if you go with my idea of animal tenders having originally been a low-status red-orange caste, pastoral nomads might be descended from them. Imagine how terrifying red-orange haired Mongol/Hun analogs would have been to settled people on this world! I have to admit I really like that idea! The way color-caste works in pastoral nomads is more than a matter of curiosity about some minor corner of the worldbuilding, because pastoral nomads often militarily defeated and subjugated settled farmers, so the way color-caste works in pastoral nomads is going to matter to the way it works in state societies. Then again, maybe Amenta never domesticated the horse or anything equivalent, and pastoral nomads remained peripheral nuisances to states, never making the transition from “small rapscallion of a skeleton” to “FUCKMOUNTAIN DEATHMONSTER.”

- I don’t think statistical aptitude differences alone would explain how universal and stable the color-caste system seems to be, unless maybe they were very big. The issue with that explanation is that technological and social changes tend to change the meaning of being good at something.

Actually, I want to talk about that last point at length. Let’s map the history of Earth societies onto Amenta color-castes, based on my offhand historical knowledge, assuming that color correlates with aptitudes and assuming that we start with a system resembling the “canon” one with demographics and roles adjusted for an early state society (blue = nobles, grey = warriors, yellow = artisans, green = scribes and priests, orange = concubines and priests, purple = farmers, reds = untouchables):

- Egypt starts with a blue sacred king and a powerful green and orange priesthood. It develops conservatively, but I think there’d probably be a shift of power toward the grey caste over time. There are probably a lot of grey/blue late Pharaohs. Later in history, it comes under the domination of foreign societies which may have caste systems that developed much less conservatively.

- I don’t know too much about early Mesopotamia, but the color-caste system plausibly gets a big shake-up with the Gutian invasion, because the Gutians sound like the kind of group that might not share it.

- The Indus Valley civilization might have the same sort of basic arrangement as Egypt. The Aryans were semi-nomads who probably lack or have a different color-caste system. Possibly post-conquest they make their own new caste system, with themselves as the top caste ruling over the mostly purple pre-Aryan peasantry. The historical period maybe maps to at first domination by the grey Kshatriyas, then a soft take-over by the green Brahmins.

- China maybe starts out as a rather violent necrachy ruled by blue medium-kings with a powerful green-dominated priesthood (greens are the artists, I think, which fits with shamanic mediums) and a powerful grey caste of charioteers. The Zhou probably have a basically similar social structure to the Shang, so relative stability so far. The Warring States Period probably sees at first a shift of power to the grey caste. I remember reading a paper once that suggested China’s early bureaucratization was because its ancient feudal warrior nobility basically killed itself off through high-intensity warfare during the Warring States Period, and this is a plausible fate for greys; they are a demographically fragile caste since they’re at high risk of dying young by violence. So, the greys drive themselves below replacement rate reproduction and dwindle, and the state shifts into the hands of green bureaucrats and starts to recruit purples to keep the wars going. Late Warring States probably has grey kings with powerful green bureaucracies and purple mass armies. Qin Shi Huangdi is probably a grey, I guess, I don’t know his background. Liu Bang might be a grey or a purple. The meritocratic Confucian examination system probably creates a mixed mostly green and purple bureaucracy. The various nomad conquest dynasties are whatever color steppe nomads are (grey? purple? red-orange? mix?). The Hongwu Emperor is probably a purple. So basically by the Ming the caste system is radically transformed from what it was in the Shang.

- Japan starts with a blue sacred king and a powerful orange and green priesthood. Over time the blues, greens, and oranges lose power to the grey samurai, culminating in the grey-dominated Shogunate, in which the blue sacred king is retained as a symbolic figurehead while the grey Shogun actually runs the country.

You get the idea. Even if you assume aptitude differences, the fortunes of the different castes are going to fluctuate a lot over thousands of years, because technological and social changes are going to change the social value of being good at something. For instance, you may have noticed a general pattern where the locus of state power shifts from religion to military power; that’s a pattern I’ve noticed in real history, and I suspect it had something to do with increasing cosmopolitanism and social complexity, horse domestication, and the invention of the chariot. By the same token, the social value of greys is vulnerable to being undermined by any innovation that makes the things they’re good at less important in war.

I don’t know, maybe the kind of stuff I’m talking about happened and I just haven’t read about it. That’s very possible. I get the impression the color-caste system is supposed to be ... pretty homogenous worldwide in terms of its basic structure though. I think some post I saw mentioned there having been a big (global?) empire that fell at some point, so maybe that explains it. Though I think that’d at least leave a fairly strong awareness that things used to be very different in a lot of places, unless the empire lasted a really long time or was quite totalitarian.

I wonder if neurotype differences might explain a lot though. “Extreme fear of contamination and elegant rigid social structures with social class legible at a glance” has more than a whiff of the right-wing authoritarian personality type to me. Maybe Amenta humans are just a lot more submissive than Homo sapiens.

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loki-zen

I have a theory that Simon Cowell is actually from Iowa and just does a British accent to make himself sound more obnoxious.

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maybe. I mean, he *looks* American.

Which shouldn’t make sense, European guys and American European-descended guys haven’t had long enough to really look any different as populations, but it’s true. A lot of it’s the perma-tan and the cosmetic dentistry, but there’s also something I can’t quite put my finger on about the way he dresses.

Of course, all of that also makes perfect sense for an English guy who is on US TV and has lived there for a long time.

I googled where he was from just now though, and while I can believe he is English, I cannot believe he is from Lambeth. Though it’s probably like all London boroughs and has a really nice bit somewhere purely for middle-class people to grow up in and spend the rest of their lives confusing people as to the circumstances of their upbringing.

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“Which shouldn’t make sense, European guys and American European-descended guys haven’t had long enough to really look any different as populations...”

Possibility: white Americans have a distinctive look because we’re mutts descended from people from all over Europe.

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One of the things the Less Wrong evolution sequences makes an emphatic point of is that group selection basically doesn’t exist, but I think in human evolution kin selection might have acted a lot like group selection.

A plausible model of a typical early human community is a somewhat inbred semi-exogamous virilocal group of a few dozen individuals. In a community like that all the men and boys and young girls and a substantial number of the older women might easily be cousins. In a community like that a gene that increased altruism toward members of the community would have been likely to increase altruism toward other carriers of the gene.

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A while back I made a post which touched on the question of how much of human evolution happened after the development of agriculture. This involves a more general question: does evolution happen faster in a big population or a small population?

On the one hand, a big population means many more opportunities for mutation.

On the other hand, a small population means a new gene can spread to a large percentage of the population in a much smaller number of generations.

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