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#pan watches naruto – @panharmonium on Tumblr
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panharmonium

@panharmonium / panharmonium.tumblr.com

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i am not usually interested in dramatically canon-divergent scenarios because the canon story is what compels me, but i've been obsessed with this moment ever since i re-heard it during my second viewing. from the perspective of someone who already finished the story once and now knows the truth - this was wild.

WHAT IF?

#naruto#naruto manga#pan watches naruto#team ro#WHAT was itachi thinking#i mean it's clear that he makes this 'change of plan' because he's taken aback/alarmed by how much kakashi knows#and my assumption is he wants to find out where kakashi got this intel#but for real WHAT was his long-term plan?#it is no secret that i am obsessed with the kakashi-itachi dynamic and like. this is just wild to me#especially given the timing - hiruzen just died so like. does itachi even have a contact in the village anymore?#is it *danzo*? seems nuts but.#if it is then this plan is insane. danzo doesn't love kakashi but he does respect him highly as a shinobi/an asset to the village#and i absolutely do not think he'd be willing to let itachi sacrifice a piece that powerful#was itachi just going to keep quiet about this if/when the Leaf asked where their most renowned jonin went? was he going to LIE about it?#or does the fact that hiruzen is dead mean that itachi *doesn't* have a contact in the village he trusts anymore#(hence him showing up immediately after hiruzen dies just to remind the Other Three that he's still out there)#except he didn't expect kakashi to sniff him out INSTANTLY and now he's taking him captive because...???#i don't know why#to torture him until he reveals his intel source and then kill him?#except itachi DOESN'T want to kill kakashi. that's established.#'why not just kill me? if he wanted to...he could.'#that's canon and it's GREAT and i love looking back at that very early line from much later on#knowing it's one of the pieces that clicks into place for kakashi when he's considering whether or not madara's story could be true#but anyway. itachi DOESN'T want to kill kakashi.#but if he takes him captive and doesn't want to kill him - then what???#there aren't any good answers for this because honestly i don't know that itachi's entire backstory had been planned yet#(like i think i read somewhere that kishimoto knew itachi was technically on the villlage's side from the beginning)#(but i'm not sure if all the details had been established)#in any case i remain FASCINATED
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I'm re-reading Sai's intro arc for fic reasons and got momentarily distracted by the sequence of events wherein Yamato gets assigned to Team Kakashi, because it unfolds like this:

  1. Tsunade refuses to cave to the Elders' demand that she keep Naruto cooped up in the village
  2. The Elders agree to this, but only if she allows them (aka Danzo-by-proxy) to choose who will fill Kakashi and Sasuke's spots on the team
  3. Danzo comes in and chooses Sai specifically, but then makes the enormous mistake of giving Tsunade only a general set of recommendations for the last member's qualifications

after which Tsunade turns around and does the absolute funniest thing she could possibly have done:

It's hilariously tempting to think of her doing this as a deliberate fuck-you to Danzo, but it's implied in the text that she doesn't even know about Yamato's Root background - she spends the next few panels explaining to Yamato who and what Danzo/the Foundation are, as if he wouldn't know. (Logically, I recognize that this is probably just because Yamato's Root backstory hadn't been conceived of yet, but in-universe it gives the impression that she doesn't know where he comes from):

It's certainly plausible to read this as her carefully talking around the issue with Yamato - her "surely you've heard of him" could be one of those things where they both know what she means but aren't saying it out loud (due to concerns about surveillance, plausible deniability on her part, etc), so how much she knows is ultimately up for interpretation. I'm not rigidly committed to either read, though, because either way is equally entertaining to me - her picking Yamato as a deliberate fuck-you to Danzo is obviously satisfying, but her NOT doing it as a deliberate fuck-you to Danzo is just as funny, like - we know, canonically, that she picks Yamato because he has Wood Style, and probably also because he worked with Kakashi for so long, but for her to use those completely unrelated criteria and wind up unwittingly selecting the absolute LAST person Danzo would ever have wanted to be Sai's commanding officer is SO hilarious to me.

Either way, I love when Danzo comes into her office to ask if she finished picking the Black Ops commander, and she's like "yeah :) i did :) guess who"

danzo: you better not have chosen somebody like your grandfather tsunade, who chose her grandfather's literal genetic clone: >:)
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kakashi’s face while tsunade is screaming at homura is sending me

he doesn’t care about the yelling; he agrees with her on this 100% (immediately after this line he joins the conversation and says so) but his face in this one shot is still the face of someone who grew up in proximity to this woman and knows better than to attract her attention while she’s ripping a man to shreds

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funniest and most heartwarming thing i rediscovered on my rewatch is when karin roasts sakura about poisoning naruto and then kakashi, who loves all of his kids very much and understands their behavior and isn’t upset with them about their choices but has also been under ABSURD amounts of stress for all of season 10, just bursts out laughing ❤️

#naruto#pan watches naruto#(again)#*#and in that moment karin became his new favorite#god i could say so much about the wind-down from the sasuke confrontation and how much i love it#kakashi's transition between the most horrific experience he's had in years#(where he thought he was going to have to kill one of his own kids)#and his return to the village (where's he's expected to take on the role of hokage at the outset of the fourth great ninja war)#is him walking six children home#one of whom he's carrying on his back#all of whom are laughing and bickering and teasing each other and acting like rowdy middle-schoolers#and there's such a feeling of peace to it#after being trapped in a situation that was so violently contrary to everything kakashi is and everything he wants#this whole experience of walking rambunctious kids home while they laugh and joke and screech at each other is so.  life-affirming for him#and i don't choose that word casually:#kakashi tried to kill himself after that confrontation with sasuke.#i forgot about that until we rewatched it last week#'sakura - watch over my body'#he was going to sacrifice himself to take 'madara' out with kamui and stop the fourth war before it even started#but then it didn't work out that way (again) and he didn't die (again) and this whole extended denouement with the kids -#who are so alive; who are so silly; who make him laugh -#is SO significant because taking care of children is what saved him years ago and it's what resurrects him now#being forced to raise a hand against one of his own children almost killed him earlier#but now he's stumbling out the other side and the sun is shining and there's this other gaggle of children under his care#and they're laughing and playing with each other and it's like#it's not over.  it's not over yet.#not for him.  not for them.#and not for sasuke either.#they're all still alive and there's still hope!
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the thing about kakashi’s S10 experience is that every five minutes he’s presented with a new crisis to manage and each one somehow manages to top the previous one in urgency and complexity

  • they’re just coming off the total destruction of the village, where kakashi DIED
  • three seconds after that, he gets the news that danzo has been appointed (though not yet confirmed) as hokage
  • AND danzo has put out a kill order for sasuke
  • which makes naruto and sakura fly off the handle
  • which means kakashi has to rein them both in immediately because he knows danzo is looking for an excuse to lock naruto up
  • this whole thing puts kakashi in the position of running the show from an underground/covert position, undermining danzo’s authority in a last-ditch attempt to save sasuke
  • he’s already juggling a subordinate who’s working as a double agent and operating in a precarious and potentially dangerous situation (”it seems like danzo is starting to not trust sai”)
  • but he encourages sai to lie to danzo and then smuggles naruto out of the village and initiates a totally unsanctioned negotiation with a foreign head of state
  • five seconds after this, “madara uchiha” is breaking into the inn where kakashi & co. are staying and telling them that actually itachi uchiha didn’t betray the leaf; the government used him to slaughter his own clan and then covered it up for years
  • which kakashi can’t just take at face value because there’s literally NO proof of this and madara has every reason to want to destabilize the leaf, so they can’t do anything about it until they get the facts
  • but before he’s had time to process this development, sakura shows up with sai and kiba and lee and confesses that she’s in love with naruto, which kakashi instantly knows isn’t true, but he doesn’t know exactly what she’s up to
  • three seconds after she leaves, sai’s clone appears with more info and kakashi realizes that sakura has decided to take down sasuke herself (which is absolutely going to result in her getting killed) and she’s on her way to confront him right now
  • before they’re even done with this discussion, the kazekage and his attendants show up and drop the enormous bomb that danzo has a stolen, implanted sharingan hidden under his bandages and tried to manipulate the entire kage summit in his favor before fleeing
  • oh, and the reason he fled was because sasuke crashed the summit and tore the entire building down after killing a contingent of samurai and attacking every kage in attendance
  • after which madara uchiha appeared and declared the start of the fourth great ninja war
  • and since danzo ran away and isn’t considered to be trustworthy anymore, the other four nations decided that KAKASHI will act as the hokage instead
  • and before kakashi can process THAT, naruto keels over and passes out in the snow
  • and at his point it’s like - what the hell does he do?  where does he start?  the leaf village has been obliterated.  its people are sleeping on the ground.  the fourth great ninja war has just been declared.  an unprecedented alliance is forming between the five great nations and kakashi is suddenly supposed to be in charge of one of them, but one of his kids is unconscious, one of them is currently going on a murder spree, and the other one is at this very moment on her way to kill the murder-spree one, who is most definitely going to end up killing her instead.  oh and also they may have just stumbled upon a massive conspiracy wherein the leaf’s government sanctioned the massacre of its own people and lied about it for years, but kakashi can’t responsibly act on this information until he gets proof, because the person who told him about it is also the person who just declared war on them all and who therefore has every reason to lie, but when and how is kakashi supposed to obtain this proof when seven other immediate crises are blowing up at the same exact time?

he never has a second to breathe before something new and even more out-of-control happens.  and as much as i hate to see him overburdened, there is something so compelling about watching him lead, watching everyone turn to him for direction, watching him deliberately undermine a false hokage who doesn’t deserve to wear the hat, watching danzo’s own current and former subordinates align themselves with kakashi in defiance of the man who kept them both captive, watching kage from other nations choose kakashi unanimously and without hesitation, particularly when their selection of him is simultaneously a rejection of danzo, which is SO symbolically powerful for so many reasons.

it’s also equally compelling to me that kakashi, confronted with all these competing and urgent demands, ultimately chooses to try and save his kids first.  

i expect nothing less from him, but it’s still so gratifying to see.

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panharmonium

well, after a little break, we picked up our naruto rewatch again with the beginning of season 10 (it’s so good.  SO GOOD), and since all i want to do is sit here and talk about how good it is, i figured i’d try to do that while simultaneously catching up on some overdue fandom correspondence.

when i was watching last night, i kept thinking back to a conversation i’d been having with @professor-of-naruto after they sent me an ask about how naruto started off as an ensemble show and then became solely “the naruto show,” and i STILL owe them a full response about that, but i’m going to consider this post my attempt to talk a little about it, because season 10 is simultaneously one of the best examples of “ensemble show” that naruto ever pulls off AND the scene of one of the most frustrating crimes of “the naruto show” that it ever commits (in my opinion; your mileage may vary).  

but before it reaches that frustrating point - season 10 is unbelievably well-constructed!  EVERYBODY is doing something important and relevant to their character arcs, and the plot is moving fast, and the world is expanding in fascinating ways:

  • first of all, there’s the fact that the season starts off with young ninja from a totally different village, all of whom are deeply concerned about their missing teacher, and then shows us their confrontation with team 7 and later naruto himself - instantly expanding the world and humanizing the leaf’s [former] enemies and forcing the audience to widen their perspective and confront the idea that ‘hang on, people in other villages are just like people in the leaf; they care about their friends and families and comrades the same way; and HMM, what sasuke did to bee was really bad actually; is it fair to expect other nations to just sit around and accept it; would we expect one of our favorite characters from the leaf to do the same”
  • the political tension created in the first episode by tsunade’s absence and danzo being named hokage creates a compelling new dynamic where the leaf is being “led” (ruled) by someone who doesn’t have the confidence of the people or the support of the jonin assembly, which then forces kakashi to start making hokage-level decisions covertly (aka taking down the foundation agents sent to spy on naruto, openly instructing a subordinate to lie to the hokage, smuggling the nine-tails out of the village, engaging in diplomatic relations with a foreign kage), which dynamic continues to escalate when danzo loses the trust of the other kage and said other kage decide that kakashi should act as the leaf’s representative, which later, despite tsunade’s recovery, is a dynamic that continues to push and and foreshadow throughout the war to the eventual conclusion of kakashi actually becoming hokage at the end of the story.
  • SAI’S ARC.  how he witnesses naruto taking that beating from karui; how the editing later cuts from naruto crying at the raikage’s feet to sai sitting in the forest thinking about naruto telling him to “stay out of this,” and his decision of “no.  i can’t just sit still, either,” and how he then goes straight to sakura to tell her that he still doesn’t know team 7 all that well and he’s not very good with emotions, but he does know that that naruto’s been suffering, and that they’ve all been relying on naruto too much, and that he doesn’t know what promise naruto made to her, but “it’s really no different than what was done to me.  it’s like a curse mark.” how he tells her that he doesn’t think it’s right that sasuke has caused naruto and sakura so much suffering, and he’s not going to sit silently by and let it continue -
  • and how that then PERFECTLY intertwines with the konoha 12 discussing the situation, and shikamaru - newly matured shikamaru, shikamaru who took down an akatsuki member, shikamaru who lost asuma, shikamaru who used to be so lazy, shikamaru who used to be so allergic to responsibility - entering the tent and agreeing with sai and saying that they’re not kids anymore.  they have to act.  they can’t let sasuke start a war between nations…so many people will die…him asking for sakura’s consent - 
  • and how THAT perfectly dovetails into sakura’s arc - her ENORMOUS decision, which none of them are even aware of yet - when she says she wants to be the one to tell naruto that they’ve decided they can’t protect sasuke anymore, but what she’s really decided is that SHE IS GOING TO KILL SASUKE HERSELF, because she’s the one who put naruto in this position by asking him to promise to bring sasuke back, and she can’t stand to make him suffer anymore, so she’s going to take the burden off his shoulders and suffer herself instead -
  • and MEANWHILE
  • this is happening against the backdrop of naruto’s petition to the raikage, which is a) the set-up for the raikage’s eventually decision to let naruto join the war many seasons later, b) the set-up for the raikage voicing his support for kakashi as hokage after danzo flees the summit, and c) the visual parallel for us between sai and sakura discussing naruto’s suffering and us simultaneously seeing him down on his knees, crying in the snow
  • and THIS is all happening against the larger backdrop of the five kage summit, where we’re introduced to MORE characters from an even WIDER world, and each kage and their attendants have their own unique personalities and we’re once again thrust into this new perspective of being asked to humanize and care about previously unknown entities who have always been considered potential antagonists, if not outright enemies
  • and the five kage summit brings back gaara and our old friends from the sand, which is important not just for the way it highlights the difference between new and old ways of thinking/generational changes, but because whoops, suddenly sasuke is crashing the five kage summit, and as soon as gaara hears about this, he leaves the summit room and goes to confront sasuke and tries to HELP, in his own way, which is brilliant and so effective on a storytelling level because gaara fought sasuke during the chuunin exams, and back then gaara was the one who was out of his mind with rage and pain, and now their positions are reversed, and gaara wants to save sasuke from that same fate, not just because it’s what naruto would want, but because gaara himself was saved in much the same way
  • but unfortunately gaara is butting up against the lowest point of sasuke’s arc, as sasuke tips over into something truly disastrous, and his descent is (magnificently!  deftly!) illustrated NOT through his behavior towards danzo (which is never depicted as unjustified) but through his behavior towards TAKA, who notice that he’s not acting like himself (suigetsu: “gee, and this is the guy who kept telling ME not kill anybody?”) and whom he then systematically, one by one, abandons, betrays, or outright sacrifices in the service of his goal, when all they’ve ever done is aid and protect him. 
  • in other words: the worst thing sasuke does, in this story’s eyes, isn’t breaking the law; it’s abandoning his comrades.  his lowest point in the narrative isn’t communicated to us by his rebellion against authority, but by his betrayal of his friends.  SOMEHOW THIS SOUNDS THEMATICALLY FAMILIAR -
  • this betrayal then flows seamlessly into new character development for the taka crew - for suigetsu and juugo, whom sasuke abandons to die or rot in prison, and for karin, who finally sees firsthand that sasuke is using her and that he doesn’t care whether she lives or dies as long as he gets what he wants - which turn of events pushes karin into the arms of the leaf, where she’s technically a prisoner, but where she’s still healed by sakura and carried by kakashi, and where she comments internally on how everyone’s chakra, even that of her cell guards, is so warm and different from sasuke’s… (i’m frothing at the mouth here at how well all of this with taka was set up and how it just falls apart later aGUGHHHHHH)
  • and these are hardly the only things going on in this season - i didn’t even touch upon the way kakashi and yamato are told the truth about itachi (this was something!!!!!  it needed to be something!!!!!), or even the brief confrontation between “madara” and yamato, because when obito first pops up on naruto’s windowsill, it’s yamato who strikes first, and yamato who says “you’re in my territory now,” and obito just laughs at him, and i cannot handle how well this sets up him being captured, interrogated, and used by obito later (if the story CARED enough to CARE about it, i mean; i just - !!!)  

this is all i mean when i say that naruto is at its best when it’s an ensemble show.  all of this happens in just the first six episodes, but every single character who appears has something important going on in their own story.  everything that they do connects to something else, and every move they make affects the plot.  every time someone appears on screen, you care about what’s happening with them - because something IS happening with them!  everything is intertwined, and all of it matters.  this season is woven together so well - it’s hard to stop watching.  

that isn’t always the case later, though.  after naruto appears on the scene of the sasuke/team 7 confrontation (aka the point where the show attempts to make a “naruto is and has always been Everything” retcon that i will never forgive them for), the story starts leaning harder into the “naruto is the only one who can save sasuke and oh yeah do everything else too” message, which is eternally frustrating to me, because the original message of the story was always “teamwork is more important than anything.  all of us are necessary to succeed.”  itachi literally chides naruto, “you can’t do everything on your own.  never forget your friends,” but then the show keeps creating situations where only naruto can Do the Thing and the other characters’ sole purposes are to sit back and monologue about how amazing he is.  

i understand that this is a silly thing to complain about when the story is in fact titled “naruto,” but i do still feel frustrated about it sometimes, because i think an approach like this makes for a weaker story.  there ARE ways to tell a naruto-centric story and have it be incredible - eg, the pain arc is all-naruto, all the time, and i have zero complaints about it, because everything naruto is able to do in that arc makes sense and is completely appropriate for who he is and what his strengths are.  he should be able to use sage mode and toad summons - those are powerful inheritances from his own teaching lineage that he worked incredibly hard to master.  he should be able to resist the nine-tails transformation - he has help from his own father’s spirit, as well as a lifetime of experience living as a jinchuuriki.  and - crucially - he should be able to save the day in the end, not because he’s a super skilled ninja with godlike powers, but because he’s able to compassionately connect with nagato on a personal level and lead him back to the light.  

that is naruto’s true power.  it’s not about him being the strongest fighter, or the smartest strategist, or the most skilled shinobi in history.  his special ability is precisely what kakashi called a “remarkable gift” in season one: “[naruto] doesn’t need much time, or many words, to make friends with everyone he meets.”

that’s why i think the pain arc is an example of “naruto-centric” done right, and that’s why i love how war arc!naruto is able to befriend kurama/the other tailed beasts and use the nine-tails’ power.  those things are so, so appropriate for who he is and where his strengths lie.  but there are other points in the story where naruto is showcased for things that don’t make as much sense or haven’t been earned (as an isolated example, the six-paths magical powers stuff was too much for me) or where he’s highlighted at other characters’ expenses (what happens to all those amazing intertwining arcs of season 10 by the time we hit the end of the story?  why do so many of them falter or disappear?)

it’s not enough to make me dislike the back half of the show - i love it right up until the last episode, my frustration with the ending notwithstanding.  but i do think the shift in focus from “ensemble show” to “one-man band” becomes a bit more dramatic after S10, and the overall story after that point is much weaker than it could have been (even though i still think that a lot of what it achieves is amazing).

first of all, no worries about ‘owing’ me a response, not at all! Please just do whatever you want /feel like at all times!! I am happy to wait until the end of time, that’s totally ok! 🧡 but ty for sharing your thoughts as you go, i love reading your posts, and i’m happy you’re picking up the rewatch again in such a great spot!

i’m hoping to avoid getting long-winded here, and please don’t feel you have to respond to this at all if time, but just wanted to say:

  • Omoi my belovedddd.
  • this guy was such a cute and hilarious addition to the cast, and i love him to pieces, and yet often FORGET that he was even in the show at all. The Kumo nin and the way they were introduced in such a grounded and logical way, and then shunted off to godknowswhere the hell they ended up on the sidelines later = huge missed opportunity, imo.
  • kakashi acting as shadow/underground hokage >> YES, and that’s such a cool way to describe it too. Really speaks to Kakashi’s true loyalties as well. One of the fandom takes that makes my skin crawl is the one that rags on Kakashi for being a bootlicker / blindly loyal to Konoha. ~hello~!! ~chigau~!! he’s actively resisting his own government like 8/10 times he’s on screen, and in this particular part, the ratio has shot up to 11/10.
  • also the way he clearly isn’t losing any sleep over it either, i love him.
  • Sai: “its like a curse mark” ❗❗❗❗ yes, and I love that it’s Sai who picks up on this, and subtly but surely fights his own teammates on it, thus endangering his relationships with the first people who’ve ever truly accepted him for who he is, because it’s that important to him.
  • I’m going to at some point make a whole 90 page thesis separate post about this, but:
  • To me, this moment is the thematic crux of the entire series, and one of the best lines of the entire show. I love that we really see Sai starting to come to grips with this idea, that bonds can be curses, particularly the weight of the OG Team 7’s bond, and how it’s become this millstone around Sakura’s and Naruto’s necks. We’re well ahead of the Obito reveal, but the things you noted in this post really pick up on this in a lot of subtle but powerful ways (i got goosebumps reading your description about shikamaru and sakura, both of whom are starting to be forced to realize this, too).
  • The Gaara-Sasuke parallel//loop that never closed 😭😭😭
  • The Gaara-Sasuke-Obito loop that never closed, for that matter 😭. Or even Gaara-Sasuke-Obito-Madara, not to get overly complicated but it’s kishimoto’s fault for writing such intriguing and compelling villainous characters. They were all there, at the end. They all had moments of self-doubt, and things to atone for. This is from later in your post, but when you said: “everything that they do connects to something else” i said out loud BIG YES. I really wish this principle had survived into the ending. Or just in some way shown that Gaara and Sasuke walked similar paths. Like just even sending Sasuke to visit Suna for some reason could have been enough of a nod. well, maybe, actually on second thought, i want them to have a realllyyyyy long conversation. Their philosophies on justified violence are not superficially similar, but to me they have the same root cause (Gaara attacked to numb his own pain, Sasuke attacked to avoid feeling anything unrelated to Itachi).
  • also sidenote but i recently re-read this part of the manga, the danzo-sasuke fight in particular, and i had forgotten how much danzo taunted sasuke about itachi.
  • “you are laying waste to the uchiha clan’s sacrifice” >> what a shitheel. what an unrepentant, self-righteous, absolute dickhead of a shitheel 👊
  • the team taka (narrative-) mistreatment makes me want to tear my own teeth out. they got to do nuuuuuthing in the finale arc. like why was karin there but in her pajamas the whole time. smh.
  • (but their potential to do some amazing stuff was absolutely still there, don’t get me wrong)
  • kakashi and yamato not reacting outwardly to the Itachi bombshell from 'madara’ >>> UHHUH UHUH team ro anyone???? they were teammates!! they should have had *something*
  • i’m sorry i’m so far off into the weeds, i will wrap up, but i wanted to just say YES, absolutely yes, completely agree with you about Naruto’s heroic arc. His “remarkable gift” is to me both his deep empathy, and his ability to change his mind about people once he understands their story. somebody mentioned on another post recently how much Naruto tends to hate people when he first meets them (i’m sorry i forgot who said this and on what post, but it’s totally true and super cute of him!!), and yet he almost always ends up revising his snap judgments once he gets to know them better. It’s an amazing skill and a very appropriate “life lesson” and it’s why I personally never felt that the Talk No Jutsu was a copout or a cheap narrative device. Kurama was the peak, but all the others along the way (Nagato, Gaara, my brain’s tired, but all the others) helped develop this attribute in him.
  • second sidenote, but for me, winning over Kurama was the peak of Naruto’s development, and i’ll stand by that statement. Sasuke at the Valley of the End was, I think, designed to be the biggest climactic moment, but for me, it was just too overwhelmingly sad. i might elaborate on this later, but it really didn’t help that Sasuke walked off into the sunset at the end of the series, rather than getting properly reintegrated into his team and wider society. Kurama and Gaara and even Nagato played a crucial role in helping Naruto set things right in the universe at large, whereas Sasuke had already done that, for reasons of his own, and we as an audience never got that big payoff moment of like, thank god Naruto talked it out with Sasuke, because otherwise we’d be in a heap of trouble. I guess it was implied with the whole 'if naruto lost, then sasuke would take over the world and slaughter everyone’ threat, but tbh i wasn’t exactly shaking in my boots about that possibility.

OKAY i’m SORRY i got so longwinded, and after i lied and said i wouldn’t, too. but thank you for the play by play in your original post! I always love the things you choose to talk about, and the way you are able to talk about them 😊.

Hello again!  Don’t mind me over here catching up on my tumblr correspondence and agreeing with you on everything -

Omui - I LOVEEEE him!  I loved all of the newly introduced Cloud characters, honestly (with the possible exception of the blonde woman on Omui’s team [Samui?], and that was just because she didn’t really have much personality other than, like, ”Hey, here’s a blonde lady with Cleavage!”  But Omui, Karui, Killer Bee, the Raikage, Darui - I loved all of those characters and became invested in them very quickly, which is a testament to how well their introduction was handled and how naturally they fit into the developing story.

the “bootlicker” thing - lmao, this is so real.  Sometimes I miss the days when I was totally ignorant of the fandom while I was watching and reading for the first time, because I didn’t have to be aware that this was a thing.  Now that I’ve stopped hiding from spoilers and have occasionally been exposed to this kind of bizarre take, I can’t believe I’ve gone this long without typing up a vent post about how frustrating it is XD  But it’s the kind of thing where ultimately I’m just like “look, whatever these people are taking away from their reading/viewing is so disconnected from the actual text that there isn’t any point getting worked up over it.” (And then I do get worked up about it, but just.  Privately.  Or to my sister when we can’t hold it in anymore and start complaining about the worst takes we’ve ever seen XD)

It’s like - I just kind of sigh and scroll past whenever I see posts that are like “Sasuke should have burned Konoha to the ground,” especially when people feel that Konoha NOT being burned to the ground (and the fact that the other “bootlicker” characters still choose to call it home) is reason to be disappointed with the story that was told.  I think there are things we can reasonably critique the story for not doing (like not addressing the Uchiha massacre in the conclusion) because excluding something like that is deeply inconsistent with the rest of the story and with the themes that have been built up since day one.  But criticizing it for something like “Konoha should have been destroyed and Sasuke shouldn’t have come back and the shinobi world should have been abolished” is just complaining that an author who chose to write a particular book should have chosen to write a completely different book instead.  Naruto doesn’t ever mislead us - it’s very good about setting audience expectations and making it clear what this story is going to be about from the beginning.  We KNOW it’s going to be about Sasuke finding his way home, no matter how long it takes.  There is never any doubt in our minds, even at the very beginning of things, that eventually he’s going to return to his friends and be brought back into a community, because that’s what we’re prepared for in the first few episodes.  The Bell Test sets the tone and the foundational themes for the rest of the story, which are that that a) taking care of your friends is more important than following the rules, and b) teamwork makes the dream work.  Any Naruto conclusion that ended with Team 7 not reuniting would have been just as inconsistent with the previously established story as an ending where we never talk about the Uchiha massacre again.

And again, of course, there are legitimate reasons to be dissatisfied with the ending we got - I’ve written plenty about that myself - but I don’t think the fact that the story couldn’t stick its landing in the last few episodes invalidates or changes what it has always been about or what kind of people the characters have always been.  Yes, there are elements of the conclusion that need to be tweaked to make the ending fully cohesive with what we were led to expect, but those elements are not things like “abolish the entire concept of shinobi/blow up the Leaf Village.”  Obviously viewers/readers are allowed to want whatever they want, but when things like that are offered up as an earnest critique of the story, I can’t take it seriously.  Expecting every character on the show to overthrow the government (and calling them “bootlickers” when they don’t, despite the fact that they canonically and repeatedly resist authority or break the law in many other ways) isn’t something I think we can reasonably critique the story for.  We’re told to expect certain societal changes towards the end of things, yes - and I do think there are places where the story fulfills this promise well (the alliances/friendship-building between previously warring nations, the tailed beasts being liberated and respected) and other places where it should have done better (the Uchiha massacre...that desperately needed to be dealt with more clearly) - but complaints that the shinobi world wasn’t totally disassembled or that characters didn’t defect from the Leaf and form their own version of the Akatsuki just aren’t things I can engage with as serious critiques of canon.  They might be fun for people to play with in AUs, but they’re not outcomes that fit naturally within the context of the story as it’s always been presented us.

tl;dr - I block on sight whenever I see the words “bootlicker” and “kakashi” in reblogs of my posts...people are entitled to their own (wrong) opinions, but I am not obligated to read about them 😆

“you ought to know that bonds can be powerful curses too” - YESSS.  The way this ties into the whole “is it worth it to love people when loving people just means you get hurt” question, which characters like Sasuke and young!Kakashi answer by refusing to form bonds in the first place, but which ultimately is debunked as a viable life philosophy because guess what, being alone hurts even more than dealing with loss...

“winning over Kurama was the peak of Naruto’s development” - agreed.   This scene is one of my top Naruto moments, when Kurama tries to convince Naruto that saving Sasuke from hatred is impossible and Naruto just responds by saying that he’s going to save Kurama, too - I loved it SO much.  Talk no Jutsu is not a cop-out; it’s the foundation of who Naruto is!  It’s his gift!  It’s why we love him so much!  And that’s why I prefer to see him in scenarios where his ability to make enemies into friends is what enables him to succeed, as opposed to him having All The Superpowers and All The Skills.  I like my Naruto to be someone who’s not necessarily the best fighter or the smartest tactician, but whose empathy and connection and compassion compensate for his weaknesses and allow him to achieve things that people who are objectively more skilled in the ninja arts (eg, Sasuke) have trouble with.  That’s one of the core messages of the show, isn’t it - Naruto succeeds because he builds a broad network of friends/family/comrades who support him and lend him strength when he stumbles; Sasuke “fails” at virtually everything he attempts because he does precisely the opposite.  Where Naruto’s success is the result of a massive communal effort, Sasuke’s struggles are the result of him cutting off his connections with anyone who tries to help him.

re: danzo - I’d say more about this, but we haven’t rewatched the Sasuke + Danzo fight yet (it’s up next) so I’ll hold off for now.  I will say that the other day I was listening to a piece of Naruto music on Youtube and happened to catch a glimpse of a commenter talking about Danzo who said something like “what a great death, he recognized his mistakes and atoned for them” which was so funny to me because 1) the only “mistake” Danzo thinks he made was in underestimating Sasuke’s ability to kill him, and 2) this man has never atoned for anything in his life (which is part of what makes him such a great character!  When he says that Sasuke is “laying waste to the Uchiha clan’s sacrifice,” he really believes it!)

it really didn’t help that Sasuke walked off into the sunset at the end of the series, rather than getting properly reintegrated into his team and wider society - Oh yeah, I hear that.  I think my biggest issue with that whole thing was what was left out prior to this happening.  I love the idea of Sasuke going on a solo personal journey; it makes sense to me and feels like a natural progression for him.  But I think it’s hard to jump straight from the end of the war to him leaving again without first showing some semblance of him coming home (and giving us at least a hint that the major personal and political issues driving him are in the process of being addressed).  Like - I believe he would leave (TEMPORARILY - I’m not touching the whole Boruto-era “Sasuke never came home” nonsense), but I’m 100% in agreement that his departure at the end of Shippuden happened too fast.  So much was left out or skipped over in the conclusion, to the point where it’s hard to enjoy the scenes we were given, because we’re too busy being like “BUT WHAT ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE?”  Sasuke just didn’t really get a resolution at the end, which was very frustrating and also a huge surprise - I really wasn’t expecting things to go like that.

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well, after a little break, we picked up our naruto rewatch again with the beginning of season 10 (it’s so good.  SO GOOD), and since all i want to do is sit here and talk about how good it is, i figured i’d try to do that while simultaneously catching up on some overdue fandom correspondence.

when i was watching last night, i kept thinking back to a conversation i'd been having with @professor-of-naruto after they sent me an ask about how naruto started off as an ensemble show and then became solely “the naruto show,” and i STILL owe them a full response about that, but i’m going to consider this post my attempt to talk a little about it, because season 10 is simultaneously one of the best examples of “ensemble show” that naruto ever pulls off AND the scene of one of the most frustrating crimes of “the naruto show” that it ever commits (in my opinion; your mileage may vary).  

but before it reaches that frustrating point - season 10 is unbelievably well-constructed!  EVERYBODY is doing something important and relevant to their character arcs, and the plot is moving fast, and the world is expanding in fascinating ways:

  • first of all, there’s the fact that the season starts off with young ninja from a totally different village, all of whom are deeply concerned about their missing teacher, and then shows us their confrontation with team 7 and later naruto himself - instantly expanding the world and humanizing the leaf’s [former] enemies and forcing the audience to widen their perspective and confront the idea that ‘hang on, people in other villages are just like people in the leaf; they care about their friends and families and comrades the same way; and HMM, what sasuke did to bee was really bad actually; is it fair to expect other nations to just sit around and accept it; would we expect one of our favorite characters from the leaf to do the same”
  • the political tension created in the first episode by tsunade’s absence and danzo being named hokage creates a compelling new dynamic where the leaf is being “led” (ruled) by someone who doesn’t have the confidence of the people or the support of the jonin assembly, which then forces kakashi to start making hokage-level decisions covertly (aka taking down the foundation agents sent to spy on naruto, openly instructing a subordinate to lie to the hokage, smuggling the nine-tails out of the village, engaging in diplomatic relations with a foreign kage), which dynamic continues to escalate when danzo loses the trust of the other kage and said other kage decide that kakashi should act as the leaf’s representative, which later, despite tsunade’s recovery, is a dynamic that continues to push and and foreshadow throughout the war to the eventual conclusion of kakashi actually becoming hokage at the end of the story.
  • SAI’S ARC.  how he witnesses naruto taking that beating from karui; how the editing later cuts from naruto crying at the raikage’s feet to sai sitting in the forest thinking about naruto telling him to “stay out of this,” and his decision of “no.  i can’t just sit still, either,” and how he then goes straight to sakura to tell her that he still doesn’t know team 7 all that well and he’s not very good with emotions, but he does know that that naruto’s been suffering, and that they’ve all been relying on naruto too much, and that he doesn’t know what promise naruto made to her, but “it’s really no different than what was done to me.  it’s like a curse mark.” how he tells her that he doesn’t think it’s right that sasuke has caused naruto and sakura so much suffering, and he’s not going to sit silently by and let it continue -
  • and how that then PERFECTLY intertwines with the konoha 12 discussing the situation, and shikamaru - newly matured shikamaru, shikamaru who took down an akatsuki member, shikamaru who lost asuma, shikamaru who used to be so lazy, shikamaru who used to be so allergic to responsibility - entering the tent and agreeing with sai and saying that they’re not kids anymore.  they have to act.  they can’t let sasuke start a war between nations...so many people will die...him asking for sakura’s consent - 
  • and how THAT perfectly dovetails into sakura’s arc - her ENORMOUS decision, which none of them are even aware of yet - when she says she wants to be the one to tell naruto that they’ve decided they can’t protect sasuke anymore, but what she’s really decided is that SHE IS GOING TO KILL SASUKE HERSELF, because she’s the one who put naruto in this position by asking him to promise to bring sasuke back, and she can’t stand to make him suffer anymore, so she’s going to take the burden off his shoulders and suffer herself instead -
  • and MEANWHILE
  • this is happening against the backdrop of naruto’s petition to the raikage, which is a) the set-up for the raikage’s eventually decision to let naruto join the war many seasons later, b) the set-up for the raikage voicing his support for kakashi as hokage after danzo flees the summit, and c) the visual parallel for us between sai and sakura discussing naruto’s suffering and us simultaneously seeing him down on his knees, crying in the snow
  • and THIS is all happening against the larger backdrop of the five kage summit, where we’re introduced to MORE characters from an even WIDER world, and each kage and their attendants have their own unique personalities and we’re once again thrust into this new perspective of being asked to humanize and care about previously unknown entities who have always been considered potential antagonists, if not outright enemies
  • and the five kage summit brings back gaara and our old friends from the sand, which is important not just for the way it highlights the difference between new and old ways of thinking/generational changes, but because whoops, suddenly sasuke is crashing the five kage summit, and as soon as gaara hears about this, he leaves the summit room and goes to confront sasuke and tries to HELP, in his own way, which is brilliant and so effective on a storytelling level because gaara fought sasuke during the chuunin exams, and back then gaara was the one who was out of his mind with rage and pain, and now their positions are reversed, and gaara wants to save sasuke from that same fate, not just because it’s what naruto would want, but because gaara himself was saved in much the same way
  • but unfortunately gaara is butting up against the lowest point of sasuke’s arc, as sasuke tips over into something truly disastrous, and his descent is (magnificently!  deftly!) illustrated NOT through his behavior towards danzo (which is never depicted as unjustified) but through his behavior towards TAKA, who notice that he’s not acting like himself (suigetsu: “gee, and this is the guy who kept telling ME not kill anybody?”) and whom he then systematically, one by one, abandons, betrays, or outright sacrifices in the service of his goal, when all they’ve ever done is aid and protect him. 
  • in other words: the worst thing sasuke does, in this story’s eyes, isn’t breaking the law; it’s abandoning his comrades.  his lowest point in the narrative isn’t communicated to us by his rebellion against authority, but by his betrayal of his friends.  SOMEHOW THIS SOUNDS THEMATICALLY FAMILIAR -
  • this betrayal then flows seamlessly into new character development for the taka crew - for suigetsu and juugo, whom sasuke abandons to die or rot in prison, and for karin, who finally sees firsthand that sasuke is using her and that he doesn’t care whether she lives or dies as long as he gets what he wants - which turn of events pushes karin into the arms of the leaf, where she’s technically a prisoner, but where she’s still healed by sakura and carried by kakashi, and where she comments internally on how everyone’s chakra, even that of her cell guards, is so warm and different from sasuke’s... (i’m frothing at the mouth here at how well all of this with taka was set up and how it just falls apart later aGUGHHHHHH)
  • and these are hardly the only things going on in this season - i didn’t even touch upon the way kakashi and yamato are told the truth about itachi (this was something!!!!!  it needed to be something!!!!!), or even the brief confrontation between “madara” and yamato, because when obito first pops up on naruto’s windowsill, it’s yamato who strikes first, and yamato who says “you’re in my territory now,” and obito just laughs at him, and i cannot handle how well this sets up him being captured, interrogated, and used by obito later (if the story CARED enough to CARE about it, i mean; i just - !!!)  

this is all i mean when i say that naruto is at its best when it’s an ensemble show.  all of this happens in just the first six episodes, but every single character who appears has something important going on in their own story.  everything that they do connects to something else, and every move they make affects the plot.  every time someone appears on screen, you care about what’s happening with them - because something IS happening with them!  everything is intertwined, and all of it matters.  this season is woven together so well - it’s hard to stop watching.  

that isn’t always the case later, though.  after naruto appears on the scene of the sasuke/team 7 confrontation (aka the point where the show attempts to make a “naruto is and has always been Everything” retcon that i will never forgive them for), the story starts leaning harder into the “naruto is the only one who can save sasuke and oh yeah do everything else too” message, which is eternally frustrating to me, because the original message of the story was always “teamwork is more important than anything.  all of us are necessary to succeed.”  itachi literally chides naruto, “you can’t do everything on your own.  never forget your friends,” but then the show keeps creating situations where only naruto can Do the Thing and the other characters’ sole purposes are to sit back and monologue about how amazing he is.  

i understand that this is a silly thing to complain about when the story is in fact titled “naruto,” but i do still feel frustrated about it sometimes, because i think an approach like this makes for a weaker story.  there ARE ways to tell a naruto-centric story and have it be incredible - eg, the pain arc is all-naruto, all the time, and i have zero complaints about it, because everything naruto is able to do in that arc makes sense and is completely appropriate for who he is and what his strengths are.  he should be able to use sage mode and toad summons - those are powerful inheritances from his own teaching lineage that he worked incredibly hard to master.  he should be able to resist the nine-tails transformation - he has help from his own father’s spirit, as well as a lifetime of experience living as a jinchuuriki.  and - crucially - he should be able to save the day in the end, not because he’s a super skilled ninja with godlike powers, but because he’s able to compassionately connect with nagato on a personal level and lead him back to the light.  

that is naruto’s true power.  it’s not about him being the strongest fighter, or the smartest strategist, or the most skilled shinobi in history.  his special ability is precisely what kakashi called a “remarkable gift” in season one: “[naruto] doesn’t need much time, or many words, to make friends with everyone he meets.”

that’s why i think the pain arc is an example of “naruto-centric” done right, and that’s why i love how war arc!naruto is able to befriend kurama/the other tailed beasts and use the nine-tails’ power.  those things are so, so appropriate for who he is and where his strengths lie.  but there are other points in the story where naruto is showcased for things that don’t make as much sense or haven’t been earned (as an isolated example, the six-paths magical powers stuff was too much for me) or where he’s highlighted at other characters’ expenses (what happens to all those amazing intertwining arcs of season 10 by the time we hit the end of the story?  why do so many of them falter or disappear?)

it’s not enough to make me dislike the back half of the show - i love it right up until the last episode, my frustration with the ending notwithstanding.  but i do think the shift in focus from “ensemble show” to “one-man band” becomes a bit more dramatic after S10, and the overall story after that point is much weaker than it could have been (even though i still think that a lot of what it achieves is amazing).

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panharmonium

@dreamersscape​ forgive me, I’m putting my reply to your Shikamaru arc question in an actual post; it got too long to go in the actual replies section!

Oh, no worries! It’s never a bad thing when you have a lot to say. I loooove diving into your detailed breakdowns! But don’t ever feel like you have to answer me if I’m curious about something you don’t really care about or have much to say about.

Don’t worry, I didn’t feel any pressure to get over my disappointment too fast or anything like that :)  Venting at you about the finale was exactly what I needed to push me over the hump; it always cures me when I can articulate in writing the reasons why something didn’t work for me.  Once I get to sit down and do my analysis on something, I always feel better, so thank you for letting me write not one, but TWO posts at you…it was a lifesaver and allowed me to feel WAY better.

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i lied, THIS is the last “in-progress naruto thoughts” post:

THOSE LAST SEVEN EPISODES HAD NO BUSINESS BEING SO WONDERFUL AFTER THE HELL THIS SHOW JUST PUT ME THROUGH.  i’m so happy.  i practically want to cry with relief; i’ve been so sad and down for the last two days feeling that my last moments of naruto were going to be something that i hated and that my last feelings about my first watch were going to be anger and disappointment, but THEY WEREN’T; the last arc came in from nowhere and hit me with the howling freight train of hope and joy that the actual ending of this show was supposed to have; and sure, it’s too bad that the real story will never have quite the ending it deserved, but this extra arc captured the spirit that the actual ending should have had; and that’s enough; i’ll take it; it’s enough for me that i was able to watch my last episode of naruto grinning from ear to ear.

this did EVERYTHING RIGHT.*  the hopeful tone, the bittersweet feeling that things are changing and it’s a little sad but also good, the focus on ALL the different characters, the highlighting of ALL the relationships we learned to care about - THIS IS WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO FEEL LIKE.

i can’t even remember everything that made me smile or laugh or Feel something wonderful tonight.  konohamaru making a congratulations video for naruto.  kiba and akamaru tackling ino during team 10′s “congratulations” filming.  iruka being offered the vice principal position but feeling like he wants to keep teaching students one-on-one.  those three academy students who keep defacing the third hokage’s bust in the courtyard (HEROES!!!!  GIVE THOSE KIDS A MEDAL RIGHT NOW!!!!)  kakashi telling every single person who talks to him to stop calling him “lord.”  the five kage having a peaceful, happy, friendly summit and going out to dinner together.  team gai going absolutely bananas together like always and lee bouncing on gai’s bed and the number of times each member of the squad is like ‘neji would never tolerate this’ or ‘what would neji think,’ because he’s still such a present part of their lives.  shikamaru losing it in panic when choji’s smugly says “we???  *i* already got a gift.”  choji planning on using the third gift certificate for himself and being seated at a separate table XD XD XD XD.  TEMARI AND SHIKAMARU.  sakura and ino competing and fighting and reaffirming as always how close they actually are and how much they understand each other.  the fact that sakura has finally learned how to make food pills that don’t taste like sewage.  gaara and lee being friends and wandering the leaf village together.  kankuro saying that naruto would like an extravagant wedding gift, while an image flashes of naruto and hinata up on this wild podium like a circus casino with flashing lights and confetti (kankuro clearly understands naruto better than anyone; i stand by this).  killer bee planning a dance performance by the raikage for the wedding.  kankuro wanting SO BADLY to see gaara dancing too.  gaara deciding that he should honor naruto not as the kazekage, but as a friend.  shino connecting with those academy kids and instinctively teaching them to appreciate and find wonder in things they were initially afraid of/grossed out by; him being so uncertain and afraid of what’s going to happen when team 8 disbands, before finally discovering the confidence to keep moving forward alongside them.  “if you’re someone who’s living in the past, and can’t see the future, are you really living?”  kiba’s relentless confidence, happiness, his aggressive friendship.  iruka telling shino to consider a career in teaching.  kakashi replying “oink oink” to tonton in the weariest, most Done With Everything voice possible.  hinata asking kakashi where he’s going, and him literally responding “i’m going to take a nap.”  kakashi sprawled flat on his back in the grass.  iruka’s ongoing struggle to decide what to say to naruto and in what role to address him.  everyone agreeing to work shifts so they can all go to the wedding and still cover the village’s staffing needs.  kakashi refusing to accept a bad compromise.  COME HELL OR HIGH WATER.  “nobody leaves early, and nobody comes late!”  NARUTO ASKING IRUKA TO COME TO THE WEDDING AS HIS FATHER.  sakura receiving sasuke’s hawk with that one-word message: “congratulations.”

i’m going to CRY.  i’m so happy.  this was such an unexpected gift to receive.  i really thought my days of enjoying new naruto episodes were over, but a miracle happened and i was able to end my first experience with this show on a high note.  i watched those last credits roll while feeling nothing but love for this story, and that’s all i could ever ask for.  

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last obligatory “in-progress naruto thoughts” post, except this one is more like “pan pulls herself together and explains why the ending is ineffective”:

So.  Back when I finished Merlin, I wrote a critique of the finale's execution, because I just needed to get it out of my system, and because I felt an urgent need to explain, from a writing perspective, why the finale missed its landing so badly.  I didn't expect to be back in the same position again so soon, but once again, I've got to get this out of my system, and then I can go back to having fun.

This is going under a cut, because despite the fact that I'm past the point where I need to really be worrying about spoilers for anything, I've discovered that I don't actually want to take down my fandom isolation barriers.  I got a little loosey-goosey about it over the last two days, and I realized quickly that I was getting very frustrated very fast and enjoying myself significantly less.  So, in the interest of preserving my carefully curated internet experience, here's the gentle disclaimer: this post is something I wrote for my own personal satisfaction, on my own personal blog, about my own personal thoughts.  It's tucked away under a cut and is not intended as a public forum for Discourse Raising or Debate Starting.  It was written as a continuation of a conversation I’m having with a friend, not for the purpose of telling strangers to enjoy things differently.  If we don’t know each other and we aren't on the same page about something, that's totally cool!  Feel free to scroll past and continue having fun in your own way.  

[Also, I want to note this in advance: this post only discusses the actual ending of the story, aka episode 479.  I'm not taking the supplemental material into account, and *shino voice* the reason is...because from a writing perspective, offloading necessary and integral components of your ending into supplemental material is objectively abysmal storytelling.]

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