Wait Nami has a boyfriend and girlfriend?! Ehy havent I heard about this before?

Because it's from Legends of Runeterra, and Riot kind of hates publicizing that game and have left it to rot and die because it didn't take over and become the biggest TCG in the world.

Irelia also has a girlfriend, Liana, a fellow member of the anti-Noxian resistance and a blade-dancer. She calls her her "little blossom."

Miss Fortune also flirts absolutely shamelessly with every female pirate in Bilgewater (and Quinn. And Vi. And... herself?)

Oh, and Seraphine has a Zaunite rival songstress called Scratch and they have a PAINFULLY OBVIOUS mutual rival crush.

(the Acoustician is Seraphine's doting father)

Also, not a LoR exclusive, but Neeko is so adorable down bad for Nidalee, it's wonderful

... buuuut she also takes a quick pass at Nami, because frankly, I think Neeko is a poly queen if anything.

this has been rattling around in my mind like a marle in an empty soda can, so I remember the "two bumbling lesbians in charge of an international power" and the only conclusion my mind can make outta that means Marinette fucking dupain-cheng and Lila "EU-brand CIA" Rossi is president and vice president respectively and thought "hey that would be good" and then I remembered that this whole au is [i assume] named after THE terror and I believe now the ladybug/Marinette presidency is the biggest shitshow in french history

YOURE ALMOST RIGHT ANON ! unfortunately for the french its a different pair of bumbling lesbians who have taken reign of the country....

Who do you think is more fitting to be “Creator’s Pet” of the show: Astruc’s virtual daughter Marinette or perfect and flawless Adrien?

Okay, before I start- I don't like the term creator's pet, it tends to suggest currying favor on the 'pet' part, and obviously Marinette or Adrien can't do that.

Perhaps 'favorite'? and let me lay some ground rules.

This is not character salt! Nothing here should be used to deride the characters. This is about the narrative woven with/around them. This is examining the external biases at play.

We must recognize that Marinette is the PoV character for the show. That is value-neutral. We can't hold screen time as evidence.

That said let's tackle Adrien being 'perfect' first. I know the show and creator use that word a lot but it is very clear in the show that ... He's not. He makes mistakes, he gets *called out* for his mistakes, he gets upset, he apologizes. He's not perfect.

So, why/how/what is the purpose of the perfect mantra in the show? It's because Adrien is a *trophy*. He was Gabriel's trophy, and now he's Marinette's. A trophy must be 'perfect', or how can it be a trophy? He makes no demands(his flirting as Cat Noir was shown as him being wrong and he corrected his behavior to be more perfect), he gives everything, he carries emotional baggage and costs nothing.

All of his perfection benefits *other people* in the narrative, not himself. Does that sound like a favorite? No it sounds like something you *give* to your favorite.

Because yes, I do believe Marinette suffers from an above-average attachment by her creator(and some fans) I say suffers from because I think it hurts her as a character. Superficially it seems to her benefit, but below the surface it's empty calories.

Marinette makes mistakes too, but they are always framed as best intentions. At the end of any disagreement she is the one in the right. Her pain is always the focus/valid one in any situation. S5 amped this up to the point I call it 'Poor Mari' when it happens. Any emotional situation must make you sympathize with Marinette first and often only. It doesn't matter what or who is involved. The entire Agreste Arc has been summed up by the emotional impact *Adrien's family being the villains and his father dying* have on *Marinette* not Adrien. Marinette gets the sympathy for someone else's crisis. How weird is that? It's not even that she did anything wrong (before the lie) but no one else seems to be allowed to experience more emotion than she does, no matter the situation.

That is a strange choice and one that hurts the narrative and her character. (As they find new/more/repeat ways to put her in emotional turmoil to keep her always center all the time)

As an example from before S5, we can look at how Luka/Kagami were handled. It's two parallel situations, handled at the same time. How they're handled gives the insight you are asking for.

Marinette's struggle is the first an foremost thing in Truth. Luka is the sweetest bean, and even when he's akumatized it is all about her pain the end and her having to break up with him. He's upset but he never blames her, never corrects her. After the breakup he is still completely supportive and always there. He works to find her happiness, even though he openly admits to still being in love with her. Marinette is handled gently and put on a pedestal.

Meanwhile, Lies focuses more on Kagami and her efforts to connect with Adrien who is pining for Ladybug( just as Marinette is pining for Adrien) She gets mad at him. She breaks up with him. She holds him accountable for his behavior. She gets over him. When she finally joins team Adrienette it is for *Marinette's* sake, not Adrien's. (MP72)

So yes, Marinette is favored heavily, beyond simply 'the main character' she is the center of this world physically and emotionally in a way that is only more noticable as time goes on.

Oh- and another easy metric: How many people have said Marinette is the best Ladybug ever vs. has anyone ever given Cat Noir the time of day except Ladybug when she felt bad about leaving him out of the loop?

The thing about the London special not outright accepting or condemning Marinette's actions itself, to me, feels like giving her more sympathy and grace than she deserves for her actions. There is no moral ambiguity here. Marinette is 100% in the wrong. And the London special goes out of its way to try and frame this as some "no right answer" type of situation and takes away every opportunity it can to have someone meaningfully confront Marinette about the impact her actions could have on Adrien.

They deny her the chance to even consider it beyond "is lying wrong?" She's almost gaslighting her boyfriend into thinking his abuser was a good person, and now she doesn't even have the excuse of not knowing how bad it was. The whole special focused on how awful Marinette felt for doing something so despicable. And I apologize for my harsh words, but that's really just how bad it is. There's no way around it, and it's honestly quite disheartening to see all the posts about Marinette being under a lot of stress and being 14 or whatever. Like sure, but I don't see nearly the same number of posts sympathizing with Adrien, who is by all means Marinette's own victim now. And anytime someone points out the very reasonable critique that Marinette is doing an incredibly bad thing, they get swamped with these excuses.

Hm... okay. So I agree that Marinette's actions in the London Special were wrong, and that she should have told Adrien the truth, even if it hurt, instead of lying to him. I disagree about there being no moral ambiguity, since "wanting Adrien not to be hurt worse than he already is and wanting to honor the last wish of a dead man, even if he was awful" are reasonable things to value, they just don't override Adrien's right to know about things that concern him, and the way she's done it is likely just as, if not more upsetting than just telling Adrien the truth.

So with the focus on Marinette during the special (and in a bunch of the fanfics that were made based off of the special, though there haven't been all that many) being mostly around Marinette's feelings about the lie, being sympathetic towards her... yeah I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think showing her perspective is valuable to understand why she did what she did, and to show that she was conflicted about it and honestly believed that she was doing the right thing, or trying to do the right thing at least.

On the other hand, it did sometimes feel like the London Special went beyond "these are the reasons Marinette did this, and this is the effect this decision has had on her, please empathize with her reasoning even if you disagree with her choices (even she isn't sure her choices were correct)" to "Poor Marinette, struggling under the burden of the choices she made, but she will bravely shoulder them for Adrien's happiness." I thought it mostly did okay with balancing it except for the last part, with Ladybug and Chat Noir talking about secrets and them both hugging each other over the burden of what they can't tell their partner. Because Ladybug COULD tell Chat Noir, and the person she's hiding all this stuff from IS him, so it felt icky to me to have him help in comforting her for it, when he didn't even understand what he was comforting her over.

I have the same problem with most of the fanfics about the London Special which have cropped up. I'm okay with there being some sympathy towards Marinette in the narrative for being conflicted and feeling like she should lie to Adrien "for his own good", given that she has good intentions, but a lot of it traipses into "poor Marinette is struggling heroically with having to sacrifice her commitment to the truth for the sake of Adrien's happiness." I especially don't like when Adrien feels guilty about Marinette feeling bad over that. While that's not totally out of character for him, I feel like his feelings over his own horrific situation should be centered more, rather than Marinette's guilt over feeling like she should lie to him in an effort to make his situation seem better.

Marinette IS only 14 and I can see why she honestly thinks that lying to Adrien about his father being a better person than he is would be better for him, she hasn't exactly had a lot of classes on the effects of child abuse and the different forms it could take. But there is the angle that Adrien is ALSO 14 and doesn't even have the luxury of any amount of control over the horrible situation he's in with his father.

The main sympathy I've seen given to Marinette is that well, what would YOU do if you were thrown into the situation of having to tell your crush that his father was a supervillain, he was gonna die anyway, and decided to do the one good thing of sacrificing what remained of his life to save your substitute mom? Which... yeah I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable having that conversation, but I wouldn't lie to Adrien either, I'd foist it off on Nathalie. (I do agree with the criticism that Nathalie ought to have been responsible for telling Adrien all these uncomfortable truths, given how deeply she was involved in both Gabriel's supervillainy and in Adrien's creation, but the show has decided to give Marinette all the power and all the responsibility of deciding what to tell Adrien, so here we are).

I would like there to be more attention paid to how Adrien must be feeling after all of this, with finding out his father died and being led to believe that he was actually trying to protect him the whole time, and dealing with that knowledge, than just sympathy for Marinette's position. Marinette had a choice in what to do. Adrien did not.