my roommates are making me watch s*pernatural with them and this is basically how its going so far

yeah this is how it's going

Supernatural is great because Eric kripke said I am going to make such a kripkean little tv show and Kim manners said I’m just gonna shoot moody small towns like the xfiles again and jensne ackles said dean winchester has tricked me, texan triple pisces male model jensen ackles into being here, so I am going to make this the problem of homosexual high schoolers, and jared padalecki went I’m in a jared padalecki commercial!

wasn’t there a post a while back where the spn boys came to samwell to get rid of the haus ghosts or something? and bitty made dean lots of pie?

I’ll promo it if someone can link me up

not sure if this it the one you’re looking for, but The Best Pie in the Universe is pretty good

that looks like it’s probably what people were talking about, check it out if you want to see a good take on the idea of this crossover

6.05 - Live Free or Twihard

#always sexualized violence towards him 

(via: ssjdebusk)

I actually wrote a meta about this once -- and how Dean knowing what roofies LOOK like might be based out of fear or even prior experiences with the drug, but then my computer crashed just as I finished it and I cried myself to sleep and never rewrote it. 

Because I am a masochist, I was scrolling through the #asksupernatural tag, and came across one question about the four regulars for season ten being “straight white males.”

And I just…

Never mind Dean…

Can you elaborate on why you think “Crowley is so queer its stupid”? Because I don’t really get that at all.

I mean, I feel like Crowley is queer. To me, he reads queer. How he interacts with others, the things he says, how he says them. 

But this is my whole point -- it's not canon that he's queer. I interpret him one way and you may interpret him another. Because there's room for that in the text. 

I think Crowley is so queer it's stupid. 

You may not. And neither of us is canonically wrong. So you can't count Crowley as representation because he's not. There are people who read him straight and people who read him queer. And maybe you can't count him as straight either, but most people are gonna count him straight. Because he's not canonically queer. That's just the way heteronormativity works. Particularly with people who aren't knowledgeable about queer communities/identities. 

Which doesn't mean thinking Crowley is straight makes you homophobic or heteronormative or ignorant or anything like that. Not at all. People are allowed to have their own opinions when all of the facts haven't been presented. And they haven't in Crowley's case. At least not to my knowledge. It's perfectly valid to think Crowley is straight. As it is to think he's queer. That's why the original post frustrated me. You can't be mad at someone for their interpretation when there hasn't been confirmation one way or the other. 

I think Derek from Teen Wolf is straight. And a lot of people disagree with me. And while Derek has had relationships with women exclusively on the show, that doesn't mean he doesn't also have relationships with men and I respect that. People are free to think he's queer. But he doesn't count as representation. Regardless of how much subtext people can find.

That's all I was trying to say. My belief that Crowley is mega-queer is merely an opinion. One that me and the OP share which was why I didn't qualify that statement as simply what I thought. 

What show have you been watching???

Because I am a masochist, I was scrolling through the #asksupernatural tag, and came across one question about the four regulars for season ten being “straight white males.”

And I just…

Never mind Dean possibly being bi.

Never mind Cas being a multi-dimensional wavelength of celestial intent who is utterly indifferent to sexual orientation.

LITERALLY in his first scene on the show, Crowley is kissing a dude.

The facts do not support that Tweeter’s claim, yo.

But none of those identities have been canonically and unequivocally confirmed. Cas has only ever had sex with a woman. They totally heteronormalized him in s9 actually. I will never be over that ridiculous and unnecessary boob jiggle shot. As soon as Cas became human they very deliberately showed him interested in women. And only women Canonically. You’re right, that doesn’t necessarily make him straight — but it doesn’t make him queer either. And they did the same with Crowley and his drug mistress. Crowley is flirtatious with men as well, but that’s often played and written like a joke. As with the first kiss we see Crowley give, It seems like he uses queer-coded behavior to make others uncomfortable. And that’s not an uncommon trait amongst villians. They’re subtextually written as queer, but never confirmed. And Dean is was so heteronormalized in season 9 it makes me sick. This whole “keep Cas and Dean apart because no homo” bullshit they’re pulling doesn’t make any sense as far as characterization is concerned. It feels shoehorned into the plot in order to brodude up their relationship. 

So no, that doesn’t make any of them straight — but it also doesn’t make them queer. And subtextual queerness isn’t enough. It’s old hat. It’s anything but progressive. We need real representation and TPTB appear to be pulling so hard away from that right now. They’re continuing to play with subtext, but refusing to confirm any of their possibly queer characters as actually queer. Any serious romantic or sexual relationships those characters participate in are shown to be hetero. Always. And I don’t think that’s an accident. 

So I get what you’re saying — but also we live in a heteronormative society. People who aren’t involved or educated in queer communities are going to assume that Dean and Cas and Crowley are straight unless they are shown definitively otherwise. So agree that calling them straight isn’t necessarily accurate, but I get the point that’s trying to be made. 

TPTB haven’t made any recent effort to move away from their queer-subtext laden heteronormative portrayals of any of their characters. After years and years of toying with this stuff, they still haven’t gone anywhere with it. And in hollywood? In media circles? Unconfirmed queer character are taken for granted as straight. I’m not saying it’s right. It needs to be changed. But that’s not gonna happen unless we start getting %100 no doubt about it queer characters where the general viewing public least expects it. That’s why I’m so invested in SPN delivering on their subtext. Showing that kind of flexibility with sexuality after SO LONG of ignoring it and no-homoing it up would be fantastic progress in the fantasy genre. But that’s not the point I’m trying to make. 

The point I’m trying to make is TPTB need to be confronted with their lack of confirmed representation. They need to understand what they’re doing with all that subtext and how it’s hurting and alienating their queer fanbase. Which is not a fanbase that big time showrunners tend to care about with any fervor. 

So I understand being put off by the level of frustration in the #asksupernatural tag, but you can’t pretend that these problems don’t exist. I ship Destiel. I’ve always thought Crowley was queer. But that’s not enough. It’s simply not. And if they don’t deliver on it soon? Or at least move some of that subtext into, you know, real text, it’s gonna be a problem. 

If you have trust in TPTB, that’s fine, but not everyone does. A lot of people have come to feel the showrunners aren’t ever going to give us the representation we’re longing for. And given the evidence? That’s a valid response. It’s valid to be upset about how hetero the four leads have come to seem. It’s an especially valid response to be upset that the four leads are white cis men. The show has problems. The show has always had problems. And people are getting vocal about it. 

They’re not always helpful or constructive in their criticism, but a lot of their points are completely sound. 

I understand it’s difficult and sometimes upsetting to feel like others are attacking your favorite things. And personally I don’t find anger productive when confronting others. People tend not to be receptive of anger. They lean towards defensive behavior. But I think Supernatural has been given more than enough time to address these long-standing concerns and they really truly haven’t.

I can’t blame people for responding with anger. 

Well, we clearly disagree on Crowley’s queerness, but the whole point of mentioning Dean and Cas is that their queerness has not been canonically confirmed.  I didn’t make that clear enough, and I’m sorry.

Otherwise, we’re pretty much in complete agreement about the need to confront TPTB about making good on the representation they seem to be hinting at.

I can’t fault anyone for believing TPTB won’t deliver on the subtext they’ve been putting in the show, given the entire history of television to date.  That’d certainly be the safe way to bet.  I haven’t given up yet, but I see why a lot of people have, and why they’re angry.

Oh no, see I totally think Crowley's queer. But they've written him in such a way that others could totally think he was straight and it wouldn't be canonically incorrect. And given that our society believes straight is the default, not confirming queerness confirms straightness in a lot of people's minds. The fact that Crowley has to kiss people to make deals gives people an excuse for his same-gender kisses. And the fact that the boys always seem uncomfortable when Crowley makes passes or flirts give people an excuse for those. And the fact that Crowley has only canonically been seen explicitly romantic with a woman gives those same people fodder for their "Crowley is straight" belief.

Crowley is so queer it's stupid. But they've cheated with him. They've written him so as to allow straight interpretations. For absolutely no reason. 

I wasn't really clear with that in my first response. 

OH MY GOD IS THAT BOBBY SINGER TELLING DEXTER HE'S HOUSING LUCIFER? HOW DO I NOT REMEMBER THIS EPISODE. DEXTERNATURAL

Even Jared ships it!

Can we make this his most retweeted post ever?? Go! Go!

[tweet]

cas should replace his old dirty trenchcoat for this new fashionistsa one burberry just put out

Yes.

it’d be a very different show

but actually not

(oh god, why am I bringing this back?)

can’t handle it

oh dean honey, thank god you’re beautiful because sometimes you are the dumbest bitch

dont forget the wings

I don’t think I’ve ever laughed so hard in my life…

THIS WAS THE FIRST POST I EVER SAW ON TUMBLR ABOUT SUPERNATURAL THIS WAS MY INTRODUCTION TO THE SHOW YOU CONDITIONED ME TO EVENTUALLY WATCH. THIS IS NOT THE SHOW I EVENTUALLY WATCHED.