I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again but it is absolutely an example of civilizational inadequacy that only deaf people know ASL

“oh we shouldn’t teach children this language, it will only come in handy if they [checks notes] ever have to talk in a situation where it’s noisy or they need to be quiet”

My mom learned it because she figured she’ll go deaf when she gets old

My family went holiday SCUBA diving once, and a couple of Deaf guys were in the group. I was really little and I spent most of the briefing overcome with the realization that while the rest of us were going to have regulators in our mouths and be underwater fairly soon, they were going to be able to do all the same stuff and keep talking.

The only reason some form of sign language is not a standard skill is ableism, as far as I can tell.

For anyone interested in learning, Bill Vicars has full lessons of ASL on youtube that were used in my college level classes. 

https://www.youtube.com/user/billvicars

and here’s the link to the website he puts in his videos:

https://www.lifeprint.com/

For BSL, I’ve been (far too) slowly working through the british-sign intro course, which isn’t free but is currently pay-what-you-can.

Wondering how to say “asexual,” “femme,” or “gender identity” in ASL? Check out these LGBT+ signs!

I don’t know if the rules are different for fic but there’s a push by many Deaf writers and bloggers in books to write it the way you write dialogue. So instead of how it’s done in say, the Shannara series (“I’m not sure which way we should go, Garth signed”), you’d write it, “I’m not sure which way we should go,” Garth signed.

However, I’m not Deaf, nor do I speak ASL.

This is something that confuses me a bit. I see many authors use italics or something similar to indicate that someone is speaking in a different language from the one used by most of the characters, so why is it unadvised for ASL (and other sign languages) in specific? If most characters used ASL in a story, would it be a bad idea to differentiate the spoken lines in this same way? If we had a group where some people knew ASL and others didn’t, would it still be bad to differentiate the lines that only half of the group would understand (in a situation where no one can translate for them, for example)?

I’m asking all this because we’re still dealing with two different languages, and at least the way I see it, it feels a little strange to differentiate someone who speaks, idk, Italian and not do the same with sign language in a story where most people use English to communicate.

To make it clear, I’m NOT trying to be offensive in any way or saying people are wrong to suggest this, I just want to understand why this is bad so I won’t do something wrong or offensive out of ignorance.

I can’t speak to Deaf/HoH stuff but wrt incorporating foreign languages in English language stories, I’ve seen discussion from folks in recent years that italicization of non-English words is Othering and can feel alienating to ESL readers because it’s drawing attention to it in a way writers would never do for English. Not sure if I’m explaining the arguments I’ve seen correctly but because italics are otherwise generally used for emphasis, using them for non English words/phrases is unnecessarily singling those words out in the text.

Not everyone feels this way obviously but I’ve seen the sentiment expressed enough times that I’ve moved away from that in my fics, and save italics when I’m actually trying to emphasize something (I have a bilingual OC who swears a lot in French). I convey language use in other ways.

So that’s where the italics pushback comes from. I can imagine similar arguments could be made for writing Deaf/HoH character dialogue with ASL, so personally I would stay away from it and indicate use of signing in other ways.

As a HoH person who signs: the issue is that you can’t write in ASL. You have no choice but to write in English. If there are a couple lines of dialogue in Spanish, you can write them in spanish, or just use dialogue tags to indicate that another language was spoken. With ASL, it has to be written in the language of the text because no alternative is available.

And I personally love the italics. It lets me know that this line of dialogue is different from the others before I get to the tag.

But whether you’re using italics or not, you just need use the right tags. Always say signed, instead of said. Use words like signed quickly, slowly, haphazard, carefully, to denote voice. Describe facial expressions to get your tone. All of that matters a lot more than whether you italicized the text.

I’m hoh, not D/deaf, let’s put the privilege up front. Call me out on anything I mess up or miss here.

I mostly agree with what @not-freyja said. I think something most folks don’t realize is that ASL (or BSL or most (?) other Deaf sign language) is made up of signs and facial expressions and body language - not written words. There have been various attempts at using English written words to develop a writing system for ASL (not sure about other SLs) but it remains primarily a physical language.

There’s so much history here and I’m such a nerd for it and so much is contextually important that I hate to gloss over it - suffice to say written language/grammar can be a sore spot for the Deaf community and linguists.

So italics or inside quotes or (if you’re not writing in English) indented by —s or however you format sign language dialogue, here are some general tips:

Ask your hoh/D/deaf friends for fic recs and pay attention to how Deaf characters are written. Have someone (or several people) read your work, even outside the fandom. Don’t be afraid to ask for help.

Here is our special preview of @RoseAylingEllis in upcoming BBC Drama Summer of Rockets! We’ll share the TX date as soon as we get it - but doesn’t it look great? - BBC See Hear

Here is our special preview of @RoseAylingEllis in upcoming BBC Drama Summer of Rockets! We’ll share the TX date as soon as we get it - but doesn’t it look great? - BBC See Hear

ASL Signbank: A online dictionary of ASL signs

There is now a publicly accessible signbank for American Sign Language (ASL)!

You can search for ASL signs by using English key words, and if you create an account you can get more information about each of the signs. This video from the site gives some more information:

The ASL Signbank joins similar websites for other signed languages, including:

The Signbank is essentially a dictionary of signs for each of the languages. Each website was set up by a different team at a different time, and have slightly different layouts and functions.

You can see that there are some signs that are similar across languages, e.g. the sign for tree in ASL and BSL looks similar to each other, but different to Auslan, while the sign for dog is different in all three (ASL, BSL, Auslan).

Just as any other dictionary won’t teach you about how to stick words together to make sentences, these Signbanks won’t teach you the grammar of each of these languages - but if you’re learning ASL, BSL or Auslan they’re a great way to look up vocabulary!

Reference

Hochgesang, Julie A., Onno Crasborn & Diane Lillo-Martin. (2018) ASL Signbank. New Haven, CT: Haskins Lab, Yale University. https://aslsignbank.haskins.yale.edu/

— Rachel Kolb, Sign Language Isn’t Just for Babies

For anyone looking for an interesting learning opportunity, this free online course from Georgetown prof Ted Supalla about the linguistics of American Sign Language looks really cool! From the description: 

More about the course from an interview with the Association for Psychological Science: 

The online course has no background knowledge required and you can start at any time. I’m not affiliated with them, I just think it sounds awesome! Check out the course here. 

Giphy released an extensive GIF library recently with more than 2,000 words and phrases in American Sign Language

Sometimes I want to find the person who first came up with the idea that it is “ableist” or a form of “cultural appropriation” for hearing people to want to learn sign language

and give them a really blistering lecture about how they are completely abusing the concept of “ableism” and “appropriation”.

No, it is not ableist for ANYone to want to learn sign language.

No, it is not appropriation for ANYone to want to learn sign language.

Deaf people WANT for more people to learn sign language so we can have more people to communicate with.

So please, *please* don’t ever tell anyone that their wanting to learn or use sign language is in any way ableist or “appropriation”. Because it is *not*.

If you are a person with auditory processing issues, then we WANT for you to learn sign language if it might make communication easier for you.

If you are a person who is non-verbal, then we WANT for you to learn sign language if it might make communication easier or more accurate for you.

Yes, we still want you to learn sign language even if your auditory processing issues, or your loss of speech, only happens sometimes and not all the time. Part time need for sign language is still *need for sign language*.

Yes, we still hope you will consider learning sign language even if you have no personal need for sign language at all. Your learning sign language can give *us* more people to communicate with, and therefore still benefits *us*. It is not ableist for you to want to learn sign language to benefit other people. In fact, it’s basically the *opposite* of ableist because it makes it easier for us to be fully included in society.

A more detailed response for people wanting to learn sign language, particularly for people with auditory processing issues.

(Resources for people with APD in general)

In this video, I’m talking about a little of my life growing up with English and how that affects me learning and using ASL.

As always, reblogs are appreciated as they help support my channel and if you want to support my channel in other ways, consider pledging on Patreon here.

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An interesting study about synesthesia in sign languages: 

Unfortunately both the summary article and the abstract do the thing where they refer to simply “sign language(s)” rather than specifying which one(s). The paper isn’t open access, but from the tags and the authors’ affiliations, it looks like the study was probably done with both American Sign Language and British Sign Language (which are not mutually intelligible).

It would have been interesting if they’d surveyed first-language speakers of ASL, BSL or other sign languages. As someone who has grapheme-colour synesthesia and finds that it kinda transfers but less vividly to new alphabets that I’ve learned later in life (e.g. Arabic), it’s not surprising to me that they found only a few grapheme synesthetes who were also manual alphabet synesthetes. Hopefully this study is just the beginning of a larger research program. 

headcanon that since the slytherin common room is under the lake there’s a room where the walls and ceiling are glass and you can just see into the lake like an aquarium

headcanon that when this was first done the mermaids got really aggressive and hateful about it and started ramming the glass but since it was magic this just caused them injuries

until a deaf/hoh slytherin started to teach them sign language and it took a long time bit by the time they left hogwarts they and the rest of the house were communicating with the mermaids and on good terms

eventually it becomes a part of slytherin house culture you’re a slytherin you know sign language because if you don’t chat with the mermaids they get grumpy

this helps a lot of deaf/hoh students

this also gives slytherin the best grades of any house on all aquatic magical studies

the mermaids give terrible dating advice do not trust them

The most common mermaid dating advice, of course, being “Drown him”

(DROWN HIM <3)

((HE’S SURVIVED THAT ALREADY))

Accepted

Nerdy Fact #1517: “Hawkeye #19″, which is told largely in American Sign Language, was delayed for months in order for the series writer, Matt Fraction, to research and confirm with educators and doctors that the ASL used was completely correct.

(Source.)

[Image description: A series of four panels, three of which seem to be taken from a comic book and one of which has text in it.  In the first panel, a man in t-shirt sniffs his wrist. Next, a faceless anonymous figure demonstrates a sign starting near the head with fingertips closed then moving toward the head while opening fingertips, looks like it could be the sign for “sun”. Next, red and white text on black background explains, “Nerdy Fact #1517 “Hawkeye #19″, which is told largely in American Sign Language, was delayed for months in order for the series writer, Matt Fraction, to research and confirm with educators and doctors that the ASL used was completely correct. nerdyfacts.tumblr.com”

Um … okay … it’s great that the writer took all this time for consultation, and that the editors allowed him this time.   Except, why on Earth was the writer consulting doctors?  Doctors are not linguists.  And if they were hearing doctors then it wasn’t even their language.  I can see educators … if they were all DEAF people, and particularly if they were Deaf people who teach ASL to other people, and not just random math teachers or whatever.

ASL is a language, not a medicine or an assistive device.  It is simply not in the domain of things in which doctors will have any more expertise than any other random member of the public.  Just because certain differences in how bodies may function can fit into the medical field does not mean that all the things we do to adapt to these differences are necessarily medical in nature.

Next time, the writer needs to consult with Deaf native signers, perhaps with a particular emphasis on Deaf people who have been trained to teach ASL to others and/or Deaf people who have expertise in sign language linguistics.  It is not appropriate to revere doctors without background in linguistics as necessarily having expertise with the accuracy of ASL.

I hope that this is merely an error on the part of the person writing the panel and not something the series writer actually did.

I’m actually laughing right now because when I was trying to get to the link to show the source… it’s taking forever to open (and I still can’t get it). Yet the ASL related links, are so fast in opening. I’m thinking it’s my internet connection, nope! It won’t even open on my mobile phone.

FINALLY GOTTEN THE SOURCE!

Clearly, Spoken Language isn’t the BEST ONLY option for deaf/hoh children. Yes it’s unfortunate how people think spoken language and medical perspective is the best only option when in reality it’s visual language. People believe that Sign Language will ‘decrease language acquisition”  When in reality, it (ASL) flourishes tremendously and that individual. Giving the option of BOTH can be beneficial to a Deaf/HOH child/adult. Bilingualism is best too, Sign Language and English can be amazing. Focusing on Literacy instead of “becoming like a hearing person, learn to speak!” Many Deaf/HOH children feel isolated and are delayed within social interaction because of the many outings for speech therapy.  Also, many Deaf/HOH individuals I now don’t say “I am so thankful for my parents to teach me spoken language!” many say “I wish I knew Sign Language as a child because it would have helped me so much. Gain my confidence, social interaction, and understanding of my surroundings”

Also, our ears aren’t something to be a cure for and can be cured. No matter if we have the assistive technology, it doesn’t mean it “restores our hearing”. We will still forever struggle within the environment and surrounding. They assist but they do not “restore” what we don’t have. 

The List of Responses (Which will be updated regularly when there is more)

The responses have been added to the original post for easier access.

And here is the president of AGBell (should be Bad) Association of the deaf/hoh (see? no capitalization, no need!) “pays off” yeah for you hearing people. But what about us Deaf/HOH ? Where’s our “pay off?” we get the “Struggle and exhaustion” 

What the hell does “decrease language acquisition” mean in that sentence? If someone learns to use ASL, they’ve learned a language??? They already got one???????? Is this some bullshit about verbal language being the only communication that matters? -_- I’ve said this about autism before, but people wanna go on and on about how like 70% of communication is non-verbal or whatever until they meet a non-verbal person and then verbal communication is literally all they care about. :/

You can solve a lot of ASL syntax problems, if not most, using five simple tricks.

I found this here 1 First: Learn to start at the beginning. In English the speaker often puts what they feel to be most important first, no matter where it occurs in time. “I went to the store after I ate breakfast and drank my coffee.” In ASL you start at the beginning. >> Breakfast eat. Coffee drink. Store go. 2 Second: Once again the English speaker puts what they feel to be the most important thing first and the next most important piece of information last and miscellaneous information in between. Speakers of English will tend to feel these really are the important things. However it is interesting to note that every language differs on the things it (and its speakers) considers important. Ownership is very important in English and stressed at every opportunity while in Spanish you do not say “My arm” you say “The arm”. And there is at least one language native to the Americas where it is considered improper to use the word “I”. Thus you would say “This man,” or “This woman” and speak of yourself in the third person. In English speaking of yourself in the third person is considered immature. ASL has its own priorities. In English you say, “The wedding took place in a small church in Pittsburgh.” In ASL you start with the largest item and work down to the smallest. >> Pittsburgh small-church wedding finish. 3 Third: In English it is often difficult to figure out exactly what is being talked about. Often what the speaker thinks is the most important thing is not treated the same in ASL. English always tends to treat the person who does the action as though they are the most important element – “She held the small white gloves close to her chest.” In ASL it is easy. It is the first thing talked about – It is the topic and it starts the sentence. The person being discussed is placed further down the chain of importance. >> Gloves, small, white, held-close-to-chest (one sign) she (If it is not already understood who is being talked about.) 4 Fourth: In English in order to construct a proper sentence you constantly have to refer to time (using tense, past, present, future) place, and person, in each sentence. English is one of the most repetitive languages in the world. It repeats information over and over again. “He walked slowly down the hill. It was steep and he did not want to hurt himself. He carefully watched where he stepped.” In ASL once you establish time, for instance in the sentence above it is the past, it remains the same time (Say yesterday) until you change it. You don’t need to keep using time indicator such as “ed” “was” “did”. And the person you are talking about remains the same until you change them, and the place remains the same until you change it. Thus you don’t need to keep referring to “him, he, his”. Nor do you have to refer back to the place, in this case the hill, with the pronoun “it”. It does not matter how long you talk about them or how many “sentences” you use. “Hill he walk (show slow careful walking with the sign “walk”) Hurt want not. Use the sign “see” with both hands to show how he watched. As you can see 7 signs and 1 head shake replace all the words in English, five of which are pronouns. 5 Fifth: Remember that you don’t have “I” this and “I” that in ASL. It is assumed you are talking about yourself unless or until you specify otherwise. Other people may have other methods. These are the ones I always found most helpful.

  (DONT RE-POST IT SAYING IT’S YOUR’S IT’S NOT! This is to help all not to take advantage.)

People sometimes insist that ASL “has no grammar” or “has no verb tense” but that’s not correct.  It DOES have grammar, it DOES have rules, it DOES tell you when things happen (present vs past, etc), it’s just that it doesn’t hit people over the head all the time with the exact verb tense conjugation at every second.  Not all languages do that the way English does.

the *way* that spanish and french (and the rest of the latin language tree) are "more highly inflected" than english definitely hits you over the head with verb tense, subject of the verb, as well as gender of most nouns/ adjectives/ articles/ pronouns. i don't know what is the official way to explain this, but i feel like ASL has a whole other way of being "highly inflected"... since you have (as an integral part of the functioning of the language, not something added on) the body language putting whole complex sets of feelings and context into the words... (sorry again about terminology, i'm a polyglot not a linguist) @reallyginny you might like the tips in the OP

okay, serious question here

andreashettle: