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#i know know enough about psychosis to judge this discussion but i am reblogging it because it is interesting – @natalunasans on Tumblr
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(((nataluna)))

@natalunasans / natalunasans.tumblr.com

[natalunasans on AO3 & insta] inactive doll tumblr @actionfiguresfanart
autistic, agnostic, ✡️,
🇮🇱☮️🇵🇸 (2-state zionist),
she/her, community college instructor, old.
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I feel like this topic gets danced around a lot so I’m just gonna be real specific - 

You gotta support psychotic people with delusions that make you uncomfortable. You gotta stop assuming psychotic people are antisemitic because they’re afraid of the illuminati, or lizard people running the world, or other shit nazis use as dogwhistles. A nazi claiming that Jewish people have a secret shadow organisation running the world and a psychotic person claiming that there’s a secret shadow organisation running the world that’s specifically after them are not the same. Not even close.

Yes, there are psychotic people with these delusions that are also antisemitic but there are many that aren’t. There are many whose delusions have absolutely fuckall to do with Jewish people. Scapegoating them all is ableist, plain and simple.

I wish I had a clear guide for you but, unfortunately, it’s not that simple and almost never is. If antisemitic dogwhistles were obvious and easy to separate from the bunch, they wouldn’t be dogwhistles.

So, here’s where I’m probably going to get myself in trouble - full disclosure, I am not Jewish. I’m not an expert on Jewish issues, though I try to keep myself as informed as possible and be supportive where I can. If I say something antisemitic here, please tell me so that I can change it.

This site promotes a very black-and-white view of things when reality is never that simple. Someone using Nazi dogwhistles might be a Nazi, they might be psychotic, or they might just be someone who doesn’t know the impact of their words and doesn’t think they’re talking about Jewish people at all. Dogwhistles are made to be covert, things that can be slipped into casual conversation without drawing attention, so people accidentally use them all the time

I can’t tell Jewish people how to respond to antisemitism. It’s simply not my place and I don’t feel informed enough to even try to throw my hat in the ring. I can say, though, that avoiding psychotic people with delusions that make you uncomfortable is fair. Letting us know that our delusions have similarities to antisemitic dogwhistles is fair. It may not always change things, as psychotic delusions don’t tend to listen to logic or reason, but, as a psychotic person, I would rather know that my delusions overlap with dogwhistles so that I can speak about them in appropriate spaces and not in public forums where I might do unintended harm.

In general, I think it’s good to remember both that sometimes people who say bigoted things aren’t bigoted, just uneducated on certain issues, and that you have the right to cut people who say bigoted things out of your life without discussion or explanation.

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scyphers

A single dogwhistle by itself is certainly a red flag, but it isn’t necessarily indicative of bigotry. It could just as easily be a lack of education or awareness. Multiple red flags are another story.

Online spaces usually come with the benefit of allowing you to go through someones posts and see if it was a one-off mistake or if it’s part of a larger pattern of behaviour. If it is, you should block and report. If not, then it’s up to you. You could send them an ask yourself, direct them to an already existing post that explains the problem, or you could contact someone else that you know is up for interacting with them.

But you are by no means obligated to educate a stranger or stick around long enough to figure out if the dogwhistle is representative of their beliefs, a lack of knowledge, or an aspect of their psychosis. Especially when they’re saying things that are targeted at you and your community (whether they know the meaning behind their words or not). Not everyone is cut out to be a teacher and that’s okay! Just dont direct hate or harrassment towards them.

With in-person interactions, I deem a single red flag as cause enough to put some distance between me and a potentially dangerous person. Don’t take risks you dont have to.

(Disclaimer: Also not Jewish, so the above is about handling dogwhistles in general and not specified for facing antisemitism. So, @wetwareproblem if any of y'all are comfortable adding on or correcting anything, I’d really appreciate it.)

Speaking from the perspective, specifically, of a white Jewish convert who is not psychotic but does have heavily stigmatized personality disorders: @your-aspd-dad, I get what you’re trying to say here, and it’s a valid point - psychotic people face wildly unfair and dangerous stigma, and after a while everyone who says you’re saying some evil shit sounds the same. You’re fucking exhausted by people giving you suspicious looks - or even outright accusations! - because of a mental health symptom you can’t help, and that’s fair. You deserve better.

But, while I absolutely believe this was not your intent, what you’ve essentially said here is “Jewish people, please lay down your lives for my comfort.”

Speaking from extensive experience existing on tumblr as an Outspoken Trans Jew, somewhere between 80 and 90% of the time you tell someone “Hey, that thing you just said was a [Nazi|TERF] dogwhistle, could you please reexamine that?” the response is going to be “HOW FUCKING DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF BEING A [NAZI|TERF]?”

So, if we’re to accommodate you as you request, we can’t object to antisemitic dogwhistles at all, lest we be taken as accusing a psychotic person.

You’ve offered us one safe option: We’re allowed to disengage when someone starts saying antisemitic things. We can walk away.

Sorry, but the moment that becomes our only strategy, we lose the ability to participate in public at all, because Nazis will latch on to it.

So… as I see it, you have two options here:

1. When Jewish people ask you for advice on how to reasonably and safely accommodate you, work with us.

2. Accept that we are going to prioritize not dying over not being ableist, even those of us who suffer under ableism and sanism.

Okay, with all that said, what’s my actual strategy?

The basic core of it:

In real life, err on the side of caution. One red flag is enough to mark a person as Threat; two (or one very blatant one) is enough to put the word out to the community.

Online, if somebody presents two red flags, I’ll do a quick sniff test of their blog; finding a third red flag is a fail, as is a general eau de Nazi. (There’s a lot of concrete factors that go into that, but even if I could articulate them all I wouldn’t want to for security reasons.)

If this is a single red flag that seems out of left field, they get one gentle warning, like I described earlier: “Hey, what you’re saying is really antisemitic <possible explanation if I’m feeling generous or patient or think it’s low risk>, maybe reeexamine that?”

And I will watch their response very carefully.

If they fly into a “HOW DARE YOU!” then they’re not actively Nazis, but they’re useful stooges for them - people who are more concerned with making sure nobody gets accused of being a Nazi than with not actually doing Nazi things.

Any new antisemitic red flag is a Nazi, as is anyone who tries to argue the point too cleverly and patiently.

Anyone who actually takes this at face value, apologizes, and corrects what they’re saying (or stops saying those things in public, if it’s not something they can correct outright) gets a green flag - they’re unusually safe and genuine allies.

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