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Dash of Mystery to go with Misery

@miss-ingno / miss-ingno.tumblr.com

Ao3: missingnowrites | Dreamwidth: miss-ingno | YT: miss-ingno | icon by @squigglysky | Weilan is my One True OTP
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zachbiller

I was gonna say “what you think he had insurance???” but 1) at least in the early aughts to mid-teens, NY was one of the less excruciating states to get medicaid in, and 2) he was a minor and it’s a LOT easier to get medicaid for a minor, especially when said minor’s legal guardians are retirees on fixed incomes I’d wager.

So yeah they’re all just fuckin dumbasses! I love them.

This is why I think it would be peak comedy for the radioactive spider to be of a non-venomous species and for there to be a scene of a new Peter Parker/Spiderperson looking up the spider’s features or posting a photo to an identification subbredit before being informed of the fact that nothing will happen

entemologist reddit: oh yeah, that one’s venom isn’t strong enough to cause anything other than a bit of localized pain at the bite site, no worries.

Peter Parker the next morning, stuck to his ceiling: Well someone fucking LIED!!!!

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britcision

Peter Parker typing out an angry internet rant to send back to the entomologist about “this is fucking bullshit I feel like ass I walked into six walls and I’m sweating fucking GLUE”

People keep asking him for updates and he does two more before deciding to become a superhero and deleting his reddit account

Six weeks later someone else posts about how “so that one spider bite guy. The one who kept. Sticking to walls. And this, uh. New hero guy. Climbing walls. Spiderman. Connected?”

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I understand the appeal of wanting every adult hero to instinctively adopt teenage Peter Parker, but can it really beat the hilarity of acknowledging that at 15 Peter was 5'10", unusually buff, went by a moniker with Man in it, wore a creepy full face mask, and had a tightly guarded secret identity and probably a Queens accent thick enough to have come out of a jello mold, and adult heroes reasonably responded to him by going, “Wow, this grown man is an immature asshole for no reason.”

Way funnier to me than adult heroes finding out Peter is a teenager and becoming Concerned is the idea of adult heroes Retroactively finding out Peter Was a teenager because he admits to being like. 22 and they’re like “Hang on you’ve been doing this for like. Seven years.” and he’s like “Haha crazy right? Anyway it’s too late for you to yell at me about that because the statue of limitations on that lecture ran out when I turned 18”

YEAH this trope is instantly more tolerable if it’s fully adult Peter being like, *listen up whippersnappers because I’ve been around the block voice* “I’m thirty, and—” and Tony Stark, who vaguely assumed Spider-Man is maybe two years older than him because he just has that energy and hasn’t reassessed this for four presidential terms, is like, *drunkenly doing math* “You’re how many”

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mamapluto

Okay but…them trying to talk about Old People Stuff with him, not realizing that he wasn’t alive to remember xyz thing happening, never used xyz technology bc he didn’t exist yet, not expecting him to agree with the fact that some ppl were saying songs they grew up to were oldies, etc

The thing about Peter Parker is that he was raised by senior citizens the way other heroes are raised by wolves. He has the body of an Olympic gymnast and the soul of a malcontented geriatric. This likely contributed to the perpetuation of the accidental ruse.

It’s when he channels Aunt May so hard he makes it sound like he was personally and immediately affected by McCarthyism that the time traveler fringe theory starts really picking up bets.

I agree here, but Parker is ALSO canonically a science and technology nerd. Peter ALSO likes to talk, because he’s nervous, and snarky banter is how he copes, but he tries to avoid any sort of identifying information, creating a situation where he just kind of mirrors whoever he’s talking to, and nobody can agree what age he is. (Marvel characters barely have canonical ages, so I’m making this up) Tony Stark (Late 30/ Early 40s), Comic book ages are fake) has had heated arguments with spider-man about the Starkphone’s latest specs, while also complained loudly about Oscorp, is convinced that Spider-Man is a 30 something engineer, is similarly convinced that Spider-Man probably works for him, and keeps trying to drop hints that like “You know, I respect you, you don’t have to hide from me because I’m your bosses’ bosses’ boss”. Hawkeye (Early 30s) Human Disaster/Secret Agent has reminisced with Spider-Man about being a human disaster, is convinced that Peter Parker is, like, 28 at the youngest. He knows Spider-Man doesn’t collect a SHIELD paycheck or anything, so his mental image is a pretty accurate take on most Adult Spider-Man versions. Brilliant kid struggling to make rent on a studio apartment in Manhattan.  Black Widow (Age ???), Professional Spy actually clocks Spider-Man as a Teenager pretty reliably, but doesn’t believe her own assessment, because this is America. American kids play basketball and worry about Prom, they don’t do this stuff. I mean, yeah, it’s possible, since he has powers and such, but no, he CAN’T Be as young. She refuses to believe it.  Captain America (Mentally late 20s, chronologically almost 100 years old) has no idea what kids are like these days. But he’s been studying 20th century history, and Spider-Man has mentioned an Aunt he’s close with who lived through some specific events. Assuming that this “Aunt” is, like, 20-30 years older than her nephew, instead of 40+ years, he believes that Spider-Man is solidly in his 30s.  Bruce Banner (40s): Is convinced Spider-Man is also an Adult, but for opposite reasons. In Bruce Banners mind, Kids are rude, and Spider-Man has always been very polite to him, therefore, an Adult, although perhaps a youngish one. With his knowledge of Science, Banner imagines Spider-Man as a PHD student.  Thor (Age ???? But quite old) Knows that Spider-Man is an adolescent. How old are adolescent humans? 42? That sounds about right. Spider-Man is a 42 year old adolescent who lives with his Aunt. That aunt, who Thor has picked up is quite wise and venerable, is probably somewhere around 500 years old? 

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considering how many times a villain has kidnapped mj and publicly announced ‘spiderman I have the woman you love’ you’d think…..someone would look into her personal life a little?

People do the research and dig up the name Peter Parker and just think “Oh no fuckin way she’d go for that loser.”

they find out he’s the spiderman photographer at the bugle and everyone’s like “oh my God it all makes sense now. the spiderman smear campaign is because he’s banging this guy’s wife”

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zachbiller

I was gonna say “what you think he had insurance???” but 1) at least in the early aughts to mid-teens, NY was one of the less excruciating states to get medicaid in, and 2) he was a minor and it’s a LOT easier to get medicaid for a minor, especially when said minor’s legal guardians are retirees on fixed incomes I’d wager.

So yeah they’re all just fuckin dumbasses! I love them.

This is why I think it would be peak comedy for the radioactive spider to be of a non-venomous species and for there to be a scene of a new Peter Parker/Spiderperson looking up the spider’s features or posting a photo to an identification subbredit before being informed of the fact that nothing will happen

entemologist reddit: oh yeah, that one’s venom isn’t strong enough to cause anything other than a bit of localized pain at the bite site, no worries.

Peter Parker the next morning, stuck to his ceiling: Well someone fucking LIED!!!!

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I understand the appeal of wanting every adult hero to instinctively adopt teenage Peter Parker, but can it really beat the hilarity of acknowledging that at 15 Peter was 5'10", unusually buff, went by a moniker with Man in it, wore a creepy full face mask, and had a tightly guarded secret identity and probably a Queens accent thick enough to have come out of a jello mold, and adult heroes reasonably responded to him by going, “Wow, this grown man is an immature asshole for no reason.”

Way funnier to me than adult heroes finding out Peter is a teenager and becoming Concerned is the idea of adult heroes Retroactively finding out Peter Was a teenager because he admits to being like. 22 and they’re like “Hang on you’ve been doing this for like. Seven years.” and he’s like “Haha crazy right? Anyway it’s too late for you to yell at me about that because the statue of limitations on that lecture ran out when I turned 18”

YEAH this trope is instantly more tolerable if it’s fully adult Peter being like, *listen up whippersnappers because I’ve been around the block voice* “I’m thirty, and—” and Tony Stark, who vaguely assumed Spider-Man is maybe two years older than him because he just has that energy and hasn’t reassessed this for four presidential terms, is like, *drunkenly doing math* “You’re how many”

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mamapluto

Okay but…them trying to talk about Old People Stuff with him, not realizing that he wasn’t alive to remember xyz thing happening, never used xyz technology bc he didn’t exist yet, not expecting him to agree with the fact that some ppl were saying songs they grew up to were oldies, etc

The thing about Peter Parker is that he was raised by senior citizens the way other heroes are raised by wolves. He has the body of an Olympic gymnast and the soul of a malcontented geriatric. This likely contributed to the perpetuation of the accidental ruse.

It’s when he channels Aunt May so hard he makes it sound like he was personally and immediately affected by McCarthyism that the time traveler fringe theory starts really picking up bets.

Pal, I JUST SAID he was raised by AUNT MAY.

Also not to get real on a ha ha comic post but the elderly are not your enemy. There are old progressives.

Peter has a lot of feelings about the woman that discovered DNA and he strikes me as the kind of person that thinks that distancing yourself from notable figures of history by using their last names is stupid, so he’s going to say something like, “Rosalind worked so fucking hard to have that work snatched from her,” immediately followed by, “I woulda thumped him good,” and inspiring Tony and Banner to frantically look through the 1930s and 40s yearbooks at King’s College and theorize which one was Spider-Man. Captain America tries reminiscing about the good ole days with him. Peter, for his part, has been absently agreeing and making vague “I’m listening” noises about the Rolling Stones and Elton John for the majority of his life, so adding baseball, Duke Ellington, and Ella Fitzgerald to the list wasn’t that much of a stretch.

There are only like three genuinely funny additions on this, but this is one of them.

captain america pushing a get out the vote campaign: ‘spiderman did you vote’

spider’man’ at 16: uhhhh so about that 

“I…can’t.” “I see. That’s why it’s so important to restore voting rights to felons.”

That’s made funnier by the fact that I feel like Steve’s natural assumption would be that Spiderman’s a non-citizen, so him jumping straight to felon is like, Peter just has such strong criminal vibes.

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traincat

Do you have any opinions on, or know of of any good articles or posts about the socio-economic changes made to the world of Spider-man in the MCU? Because I'm very bothered by it but can't articulate it. Especially the effective replacement of Uncle Ben with Tony Stark.

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This is definitely a topic that I have a lot of thoughts on, though unfortunately I’m not aware of that many outside articles on the topic, which is a shame because I think the fact that it has to be addressed at all is very, very telling. @karenpages has a very good meta post about Spider-Man: Homecoming in general that heavily touches on the movie’s economics here that I highly recommend.

I think there’s one thing we have to be very clear on, though: the MCU didn’t want Spider-Man to be poor, because it wanted to make a fun movie, and being poor isn’t fun. I’m not being facetious, and I’m not trying to be edgy by hating on the popular and current Spider-Man film adaptation; if you look at the film, this is literally what’s going on. You cannot, in good faith, argue that MCU Spider-Man honestly experiences financial difficulties in the finished film. I know there’s a deleted scene involving unpaid bills, and I appreciate that, but the point is that scene was deleted, and it is not in the final product. MCU Peter Parker, unlike basically every other version of the character, doesn’t need to have a job. He doesn’t need to work for the Bugle to support himself and his aunt. This too is related to the erasure of Peter Parker’s Jewish coding and history – he’s just an ordinary, relatable kid in the MCU, and for the MCU that means he’s not Jewish and he’s definitely not poor, because that wouldn’t be very relatable, would it, regardless of the fact that far more people are in bad financial situations than the opposite. In 616 comics canon, during Peter’s teen years, Aunt May is too frail or in too ill health to work. Peter explicitly has to get a job in order to support his family. He even laments the fact that Medicare doesn’t cover enough of the costs for her healthcare, which, if we’re going to talk about relatable content, if you’re not independently wealthy and you have had an ill relative, I’m sure you can understand the stress involved there. In 616, there’s absolutely no denying that Peter is aware of the stress of being poor, and that he feels deeply not just for himself and for his family but for complete strangers who are also facing financial hard times. He’s very empathetic, the way only someone who has experienced these kinds of hardships can be:

Amazing Spider-Man #50 – it is depressing how long ago this comic was published and how, when you look at it, very little has changed.

Spider-Man: Homecoming’s ad for Marvel’s partner, Synchrony Bank – spot the difference. Not only is using Spider-Man to advertise savings accounts totally out of touch with the material when one of the things Spider-Man as a hero is most famous for is living paycheck to paycheck like an ordinary schmuck, but it’s totally glossing over the fact that in comics canon Peter knows that banks are not the ordinary person’s friend. In Marvel Fanfare #42, for example, he blackmails a bank manager with said manager’s sexual affair in order to make sure he apologizes and gives a single mother her job as a teller back after she’s fired because she won’t respond to said manager’s sexual advances. This is the Spider-Man we deserve and that we need. When talking about superheroes and the economic climate, it’s important to address the fact that superheroes shouldn’t only care about beating up the big bad guy of the picture. If they don’t honestly care about the disenfranchised, they aren’t super – and that’s always what has made Spider-Man special, because he comes from a background where he uniquely suited to understand the plight of those in need. He defends people in apartment buildings where the landlords are trying to push them out so they can raise the rents and gentrify the neighborhood. He saves victims from muggers. These are ordinary people, without great financial means. He’s angry – justifiably – at the abuse of the elderly, at neglected children, at people who prey on the victims of society. He doesn’t whine because he wanted to spend time with his crush on a fancy European school vacation. 

The MCU’s Spider-Man, on the other hand, eschews the idea that Peter Parker is poor, and it does this in a very subtle but very simple and powerful way that I’m going to outline, because this is very easy to miss. That’s the point of it. They wanted to do away with the notion that Peter Parker is poor – because that’s so depressing, nobody wants to think about poverty in their fun summer movie – while being careful not to do it so blatantly that their erasure was noticed by their greater audience. It’s not as simple as moving Peter to a mansion, or having him throw around hundred dollar bills. No, the way you know MCU Peter isn’t poor is very simple, and it goes by very fast. I’ve said this before, but the way the MCU employs the concept of fun within their Spider-Man franchise is dangerous in terms of what it allows them to erase all with barely any fan reaction at all, because of course we all want to have fun, don’t we? If anything, those among us in more troubled financial situations are more desperate to have fun than most, because we see so little of it compared to the stress. Those in good financial situations are less likely to notice entirely because the notion simply never occurs to them; they exist in a place of financial comfort and a good portion of them don’t question that reality. They may be aware of the alternative, but it’s not pertinent to them, because they don’t experience it personally. Everything is different when it’s personal.

Now I’ve always been very clear about my belief that the MCU didn’t do wrong by Spider-Man right off the bat; in his first appearance within the MCU’s continuity in Captain America: Civil War, he appears to live in quite a nice and modernly furnished apartment (as opposed to his more traditional childhood home in a freestanding house in Forest Hills, Queens, usually somewhat old fashionedly furnished to reflect the Parker family’s current lack of finances and the age of both Ben and May, a setting that was dismissed by Homecoming’s screenwriters are “old fashioned”), but the MCU’s sets in general tend to be lacking in the department of personal character. Basically, every room looks like an IKEA show room. I mean, they put a cross in the room of Wanda Maximoff, the daughter of Magneto, one of the most famous Jewish characters of all time. To say the MCU’s set design is both lacking and careless is to say that grass is green. It’s hard to fault the Parker apartment for this specifically when everything looks like a magazine layout or a Macy’s showroom. In CACW, Peter dumpster dives for tech and has created, albeit shabbily compared to the more advanced wardrobes of the other heroes, his own costume. Everything is as we would expect of Peter Parker in the moment, being a bright and creative young man who is good at problem solving and creating his own tech with limited resources. Spider-Man: Homecoming near immediately changes that with about one line.

Early on in Spider-Man: Homecoming, Peter loses his backpack by carelessly tossing it on the ground, a scene that completely broke the suspension of belief for me. I find it hard to believe any inner city kid – especially one we’re expected to believe is a genius – would toss their belongings on the ground in public, walk away, and still expect them to be there when they get back. It’s especially grating when, in comics, Peter regularly does leave his belongings outside – webbed up out of sight and out of reach. Surely no child who is aware of their family’s financial struggles would treat their personal belongings with such a lack of care, additionally. Sure enough, when MCU Peter returns to the scene of the backpack drop, his stuff is gone. Shocker. When he confesses this to Aunt May, she doesn’t express concern over how they’ll replace the bag or the contents wherein – something that, depending on how many textbooks or how much school equipment was within, could be very expensive – instead simply saying they can replace it, no problem, it’s just like all the other backpacks he’s lost, revealing that this isn’t the first time and that this is not an issue for them because they can afford to continually replace things due to his carelessness. The MCU Parkers aren’t poor. I cannot stress this enough. They aren’t poor because they movie has not portrayed them as such. They do not have financial troubles. They may not be billionaires, but the movie treats them as safely comfortable. Peter is not expected to be financially responsible or even to have the kind of common sense that prevents you from leaving your backpack on the street lest it be stolen. He feels no responsibility to provide financially, a total opposite to 616 Peter, who supported both himself and May with his job at the Daily Bugle. 

”She’s pawning her jewelry! She must be desperate for money! But she doesn’t want me to know! She doesn’t want me to worry!” – Amazing Spider-Man #1. As in, literally the second appearance of the character after Amazing Fantasy #15. This is not incidental stuff, this is not in the background; financial worries were baked into the character at his very inception and at his core. It’s like if you created a version of Batman who kept all his investigative tools in a storage rental he paid by the month and the plot frequently centered on him worrying about how he was going to make the rent.

(Amazing Spider-Man #24)

“The way you supported [May] and yourself throughout high school by selling pictures to the Bugle. We’re so proud.” “Someone had to.” - Amazing Spider-Man #377

Previous movie adaptations of Spider-Man have never before left this aspect of the Parkers out. In the Raimi movies obviously Aunt May and Uncle Ben are quite a bit older than Peter as they are in the comics, and you can tell from the films that money is an issue. Peter works menial jobs such as pizza delivery in able to make money. In The Amazing Spider-Man series, the financial worries are directly addressed in The Amazing Spider-Man 2, which makes it clear that Peter is working for the Bugle and that he is contributing to the household finances:

May’s plot in The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is very rooted in the financial aspect of their identities – here she’s hiding from Peter that she’s started taking nursing classes, explicitly stated later that it’s so she can pay for him to go to college (”I have to take nursing classes with 22 year old kids so I can pay for you to go college”) because she doesn’t want him to worry. Spider-Man: Homecoming’s screenwriters were very disrespectful to this version of May – and I would say the character of May in general – saying that their version is a professional, she’s not “waiting at home for Peter to bring the eggs.” Except we don’t know what MCU May does for a living. It’s not important, because the MCU doesn’t view May herself as important. She clearly does something, but is it interior design? Is it investment management? Is it a whole lot of tax fraud? It’s never made clear. The Webb movies, on the other hand, tell us exactly what May does: she works as a waitress. She is taking classes to be a nurse. This information about May is viewed as being worthy of being in the movie itself, because it takes her seriously as a character and as an influence in Peter’s life. It doesn’t gloss over the financial troubles she faces.

Let me be very clear in my beliefs that you cannot tell a valid Spider-Man story if you do not at the very least address the fact that the Parkers are not economically well off and go into Peter’s social standing because of that fact. By having him jet set with his whole class – really? a whole class of kids from Queens? on a whole ass European vacation to multiple countries? I 100% have a harder time believing this than I do a radioactive spider-bite – or by removing the need for him to make his own costume because everything is provided by billionaires or above government agencies. The fact that J Jonah Jameson will be appearing in Far From Home when this Peter has no relationship with him and no need (and for Peter in comics and most adaptations it very much is a need) for a job at the Bugle is highly suspect – JJJ doesn’t mean anything without his relationship with Peter and with Spider-Man. Without them, he’s just a “bring me pictures of Spider-Man” meme. There’s no story. There’s no meaning. There’s no connection. It’s an empty appearance without that push and pull between the characters – and without realizing that Jameson is a rich man, albeit a self-made one, and Peter is quite commonly his broke employee.

Amazing Spider-Man #99, where Peter is lobbying for a salary because he plans to ask Gwen to marry him and he wants to be able to support her financially. In 616 canon, Peter wants to provide and Peter wants to protect, and one way he’s able to protect is by providing. He’s very aware of the value of money. He’s not naive about that in the least because he knows exactly what it’s like to not have money. To erase that from the character is to lessen him, but the MCU doesn’t care about the character. It doesn’t care about the values put forward by Spider-Man as a story. It certainly doesn’t care about responsibility.

All the MCU cares about in relation to Spider-Man is fun. (Even it’s emotional hits are hollow – audiences are supposed to accept that Peter is going to cry over Tony Stark’s death, but the only mention made of Uncle Ben has been a vague line from CACW and a piece of luggage that will apparently be appearing in Far From Home bearing the initials “BFP.” (And stop trying to tell me that the MCU didn’t replace Uncle Ben with Tony Stark. It does a disservice to all the characters involved when Tony Stark was never meant to provide this kind of influence on Spider-Man because he’s not a Spider-Man cast member, and when Uncle Ben can’t even be mentioned by name within four and counting films worth of appearances.) We get it, you’re borrowing the Richard Parker briefcase from the Webb movies.) And how are you supposed to have fun paying $15 for a single movie ticket if your main character is concerned about how he’s paying for his aunt’s medication? There’s responsibility and there’s relatable content – real relatable content, not meme-worthy fluff moments – in Spider-Mans’ socioeconomic status and takes in the comics, but they’re there so you think. That’s the last thing the MCU wants you to do with its Audi-riding, bank-partnered, Uncle Ben-forgetting, “the world needs the next Iron Man” Spider-Man. Shut up, stop thinking, and put up your cash so Disney can break some more box office records.

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kyraneko

1) The dismissal of whole genres of potential characters as “unrelatable” is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and Disney’s repeated preference for erasure of such traits rather than keeping them part of an (already-related-to!) character is functionally an act of bigotry.

2) I’m noticing a trend in remakes/continuations in general of most of the meaning of the story being stripped out in favor of a very flashy empty shell that explodes in all the right places but has nothing under the surface, and in all honesty it’s reminding me of the Hays Code era where things like moral complexity, “distasteful” subjects, and anything critical of established power structures were banned from being depicted. Nowadays the concept being defended is “enjoyment” rather than “decency,” but the result is the same.

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THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MILES MORALES HEADCANON CONTENT DAMMIT

  • So uh… the Davis-Morales lives in Brooklyn, yeah?
  • Guess who else lives in Brooklyn?
  • That’s right, the 99th Precinct. The precinct number 99,  the 99th precinct. (yes Brooklyn 99) 
  • So imagine a fairly dull afternoon, Miles is leisurely chasing a pickpocket down an alley and webbing him up WHEN SUDDENLY, a familiar looking police officer with a leather jacket bump into him in the same alley, FANBOYING
  • “Oh my God, oh my God! Are you the new Spiderman?!” “Web me !!”
  • Miles: Uhhhhhhhhh
  • Needless to say Miles eventually lands in the office of the 99th Precinct
  • Captain Holt immediately figures out that this new Spiderman is, in fact, Jefferson’s son
  • Miles is scared of Holt at first but he eventually warms up to Holt 
  • He’s a little weirded out by Jake and Charles fanboying over him but they’re nice enough
  • Amy teaches him about First Aid and How to Rescue People and whatnot, he is forever grateful.
  • He likes Gina because she’s got the same mischievous vibe as Uncle Aaron but Jesus Gina, stop teaching him illegal stuff (he does, however pick up on the lock picking tick with the hairpins)
  • He has a mini crush on Rosa but mostly she mentors him on how to be a badass but most of her advice is useless (”Wear leather jackets everyday.” “But I –” “LEATHER JACKET!”
  • Terry and Holt mentors him and teaches him about deduction and how to be safe.
  • The trouble only starts when Holt accidentally mentioned to Jefferson during an office function that Miles sometimes drops by the 99th Precinct from time to time.
  • Jefferson is Baffled? Miles? Interested in Policework?? This has never happened??
  • Also, why didn’t Miles ever come by his precinct? Is it because he’s lame? HE’S NOT LAME DAMMIT. 
  • (he’s also secretly insecure that Aaron and Rio gets along with his son better, and now, Captain Holt?? What is he doing???)
  • “MILES, SON, WHY DON’T YOU EVER VISIT YOUR OLD MAN’S PRECINCT?”
  • Holt : I panicked. I’m sorry.
  • Miles: : I trusted you, Sir. 
  • Anyway imagine ALL THE POSSIBILITIES
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