Dash of Mystery to go with Misery

i have been obsessing over this extremely short moment post-sunshot campaign for weeks now trying to put together a lengthier post about it, but i think the screenshots themselves arranged chronologically speak for themselves. so i will just post them and then talk about the framing, because i’m insane about it.

just about everyone else on this side of the banquet hall within the scorching sun palace is looking towards jin guangshan as he speaks—everyone except for:

1) jin guangyao, who is staring straight ahead with a startlingly flat and resigned expression on his face, despite being seated in a position of honour beside his brother, and

2) nie huaisang, who is obviously TRYING to pay attention, but his attention keeps wandering between looking at nie mingjue, and looking at jin guangyao

(also he gets no further commentary/acknowledgement from me but look at jin zixun back there just lounging in his seat like a smug spoiled brat. ugh. step on legos forever jin zixun.)

the camera shifts its focus while jgs keeps talking to zero in on jgy’s expression. this deliberately highlights and provides us the chance to see his expression in more detail. and it is so hard to discern what he is feeling specifically beyond “not great,” but what stands out for me is: he isn’t wearing his usual polite, customer service mask, the one he managed to keep in place both during the introductory sequence at the cloud recesses in the face of so much mockery from the jiang sect disciples.

so what is that expression? what is going on in his head that he can’t play the part that he’s perfect for years now, when he has supposedly almost achieved everything he ever dreamed of accomplishing for himself and his mother? i mean, i have my suspicions of course, because we know what is going to happen very soon.

and then—

—the focus of this scene changes, drawing our attention away from jin guangyao towards nie huaisang where he’s seated just behind nie mingjue. because nie huaisang is not paying attention to jgs’s speech or watching his da-ge. unlike everyone else in this banquet hall in this moment, nie huaisang is looking at jin guangyao, observing him in this moment where his polite mien has failed him, and god what i wouldn’t give to know what is going through his head!! because:

1) i don’t for a moment believe nmj told nhs the details of what transpired between him and jgy during their confrontation in the scorching sun palace. i don’t think he did this as a favour to jgy or to lxc, either. imo this decision would be consistent with nmj shutting down any discussion of what caused him to exile meng yao from the unclean realm back in… uhhh, episode 10?? when nhs, wwx and jc all converge in the unclean realm throne room to ask about meng yao’s fate. (yeah it was episode 10.) anyway for all we know this is the first time nhs has seen his old body guard/babysitter since he watched meng yao totter feebly into the wild blue yonder all those months ago, and now here he is seated in a place of honour between jin zixuan and his da-ge, looking perhaps even more miserable than he did while bleeding from a giant sword wound in his chest. it is entirely consistent with nhs’s character to be like ‘???? what is up with this??’ but not even he is bold enough to ask jgy what is up in the middle of this banquet, not with da-ge right there.

2) his expression is ALSO harder to read than it would have been when they were last together!! but there are clearly gears and cogs shifting and ticking and whirring behind his eyes, and the fact that the framing calls attention to nhs noticing jgy in this moment when it’s quite clear no one else does is one of many hints the show is dropping for us that nhs is more than just a lackadaisical and absent-minded second son. he notices things that no one else does—but, as with jgy, we are left to guessing as to what he is thinking, and what conclusions he is drawing.

well okay it looks like i managed to write a lot of words down about this after all!! go me.

#yelling about it!!!!!#also! at this point JGY has already overseen the execution of civilians at his father’s behest so. things have already gone south.#god the Nightless City Victory Banquet is such a wretched time for absolutely everyone

oh no... there must have been like .001 seconds where he was like "ah, finally i have successfully been recognized as my father's son, all that torturing of people i did to help defeat wen ruohan is done with and now i can finally have the privilege to be Righteous and Good like lxc" and then his father's like "btw can you keep murdering civilians and political opponents for me" and he had to be like "oh, so.... this is forever, then. this is just how it's going to be now, forever."

@guqin-and-flute sent me this post, saying it was JZX and JGY talking about MXY, and obviously I just HAD to draw it 😆

pondering jin guangyao’s insane customer service worker energy when i realized he has literally killed every single boss he’s had. wen ruohan? dead. jin guangshan? dead. nie mingjue? Extra Dead. employing this man has a 100% fatality rate.

Don’t forget the middle managers.

That Nie captain? dead. Jin Zixuan? dead.

(yes I know JZS didn’t act like JGY was his subordinate, but literally everyone around them did)

Truly an impressive resume. Jin Guangyao is nothing if not efficient.

@flamingwell thank you for these important additions

So re: Qin Su's death, one thing I'm absolutely certain of is that she did not just conveniently kill herself due to her high level of distress, at the exact moment most convenient to a person she was super mad at.

Because, frankly, mxtx is not that shitty a writer. She doesn't sweat the details or logistics of things, characters are allowed to coincidentally turn up in the right place to make the plot work and so forth, but these novels are intensely concerned with character motive and internal life. Everyone does things for their own reasons.

People do what the plot requires, but a defining feature of her writing is that everyone is fashioned into the shape of the kind of person who would do that thing in this situation. Sometimes whole scenes or subplots exist mainly to put on display the underlying cognitive patterns that justify as individual choices the kinds of things stock characters routinely do in genre novels, for no reason than that they are The Type Of Character who Does That.

If Qin Su was going to commit suicide about the bad news, there would have been hints that this was the direction her thoughts were trending during the preceding scene, where we're introduced to her reactions. And there aren't.

Her primary reaction is anger. She's scared to death when her husband paralyzes her and puts her on his dismemberment table to interrogate later for the name of her informant. She is contemptuous of his caring almost exclusively about what all these horrors could do to their reputation.

There is nothing in the scene to suggest she would, given the opportunity to denounce him to the cultivation world, choose instead to escape by knife.

The interpretation of this sequence that says she Just Did That really annoys me, because it requires ignoring basically every single piece of information about the character other than the fact that Wei Wuxian always thought since they were kids that she wasn't very bright.

Furthermore, it would be out of character for Jin Guangyao to have knowingly arranged a situation likely to go so badly for him, and wildly unusual for him to get so lucky if he had. This man has shit luck normally.

The sensible thing for him to do, in a universe where Qin Su just conveniently opted for suicide instead of ratting on him, would have been to take the ten to twenty minutes of prep time he had to work with to disappear her the same way he did nmj's head.

This might have required killing her first, since we don't know where he put it, but while I'm sure he didn't want to do that I'm equally sure he was entirely capable. He had a convenient scapegoat handy to blame for her disappearance.

He had no reason to allow her to be visible and capable of independent action when his cavalcade of guests arrived. But there she was, dazed but unrestrained. And then...cursed knife time.

Super convenient! She's dead and can't blab, and lots of important people saw her do it and saw how horrified he was and are disposed to be sympathetic. Works out much better for him than the risk of being blamed if she disappears.

So Wei Wuxian's assumption that jgy set the suicide up and compelled her somehow is the most logical inference. Neither of their characters is really compatible with the other scenario.

If Jin Guangyao had actual mind control powers he definitely would have used them a lot, so the most straightforward version of what happened is he used some technique or drug that would confuse her and suppress her cognition, then deliberately put 'cursed dagger that preys on your negative feelings and makes you kill yourself' within reach just before everyone entered.

I'm sure if it hadn't worked, and she'd just kind of stared into the distance while he talked his way out of the unproveable allegations and weaponized Mo Xuanyu's bad reputation and so forth, he'd have been happy with that outcome too, since it would still have meant a lot of important people saw her alive and not freaking out, and then he'd still have been able to torture her for information later. (Again, something I'm sure he didn't want to do, but absolutely would have.)

But this worked out well and got rid of two exposure threats at once while buying him sympathy points.

Although considering his shit luck, I wouldn't rule out that his plan only went as far as sedating her so she couldn't make trouble and he could show everyone how not paralyzed on his murder table she was, and he'd forgotten he had an evil dagger that compelled you to kill yourself lying around in reach of a woman whose ability to exert force of will he'd just reduced to nothing.

And he wasn't expecting that result at all.

#side note op what's your source for 'wwx thought she wasn't bright ever since they were kids?' #I don't think they knew each other. I do remember him thinking she didn't seem that bright though

#I don't think she was dim. not the sharpest knife in the drawer but to be fair there were some very very sharp knives in there #she wasn't politically motivated and she trusted easily. so what #she was kind and had a strong sense of justice and she was *brave*. (@helendamnationx)

Okay tbh that was my very slapdash and ungenerous synthesis of three passages. (Old fan translation excerpted because I do not have 100 dollars for danmei.) This one, from right at the start of the confrontation with jgy:

And this one, from her first appearance earlier in the same chapter:

With this bit from wayyyyyy back in 'Refinement' when Nie Huaisang first appears.

From all this, and the parallel constructions of how 'everyone knew' Qin Su and Wei Wuxian's backstories adjacent to the second and third passages, I drew the conclusion that it's much more likely that Wei Wuxian's passing familiarity with Qin Su dates from the same before-age-fifteen casual social exposure alluded to with Nie Huaisang, than that she made any impression whatsoever on him during or after the Sunshot Campaign.

I also got the strong sense he regarded her as something of an intellectual lightweight, though admittedly he doesn't exactly say that, he just harps on the immaturity vibe. But like. We both got that feel, right? Right.

I think Qin Su is a very neat character with her one (1) entire actual scene of page time, which is part of why interpretations where she really just did that on her own bug me so much.

(The other part is that it falls into the pattern of readings that make the book dumber for the sake of exculpating blorbo lmao. If we want to excuse jgy from intentionally killing his wife the 'forgot about the evil dagger because he owns so much creepy shit' reading is right there.)

Also lmaoooooo some very sharp knives in that drawer. All of them however somehow idiots.

just a coupla sworn brothers

The first time Jin Guangyao held Jin Ling did not go as he'd expected. Jiang Wanyin, half-mad and barely functional, for some reason had been allowed into the nursery by Jin-furen. The moment whispers of this reached Jin Guangyao, of course he went to intercede; and it was fortunate he had. He could hear wailing halfway down the corridor.

"Why is he crying?" Jiang Wanyin demanded of the wetnurse as he held the baby incorrectly.

"This one is sure Sandu Shengshou knows better than her," she replied, eyes wide. Jin Guangyao made note of this, but he had few hopes of improvement. Jin servants knew to be meek.

"Obviously, I don't," Jiang Wanyin snapped, brows furrowed as he stared down at Jin Ling. Jin Guangyao purposefully brushed the silk of his robe, and like a dog Jiang Wanyin raised his head at the sound. "Lianfang-zun, what am I doing wrong?"

this also feels like a (somewhat) calculated gamble that NMJ is less likely to kill him if he's on his knees apologizing. that NMJ would find that kind of execution distasteful, especially in front of LXC who has already shown he is willing to oppose NMJ to protect MY. "i'm delicate and poor and very very sorry. wouldn't it be dishonorable to strike me down as i willingly submit myself to your fair judgement?"

the gamble works, but with the (unintended, fatal) consequence that this act of submission itself becomes suspect. is the apology just an act? MY isn't this defenseless, NMJ just saw that, so... which of his deeds, which of his words are genuine?

i'd argue that in this specific moment, where nmj has already demonstrated he's perfectly willing to swing a blade at meng yao's head even with lxc right there to intercede, meng yao is defenceless. he is stepping out from behind lxc's back and going to his knees in front of a man who he knows wants to kill him, and absolutely possesses the capability to do so; in this situation, is it actually wrong of him to play what cards he does have, in the hopes that it will convince nmj to spare his life? does making himself small and vulnerable automatically mean that his apology isn't sincere?

meng yao has no way of knowing that nmj won't try to strike him down again, but he does this anyway. if it's calculated to play on nmj's sense of honour, it is meng yao's only way of parrying a blade that would otherwise mean his death. also ftr, i personally think he's sincerely sorry.

#I don't remember if it's after or before this that he sees nmj's blade coming and just#closes his eyes and accepts it#he didn't even try to dodge#I think it's before this? when lxc then stops baxia with his own sword#which says something about his willingness to put himself in strike zone AGAIN to apologize#didn't he also do the same when nmj expelled him from the clan????#jgy is apparently willing to die by nmj's hand. until he isn't.#mdzs#also something something parallels with lxc closing his eyes and accepting to die with him in the temple (via @kn-rainbowblood)

this happens before that final blow that nmj delivers, which meng yao rightly expects to land on his own head, but which cleaves something else in half instead. and you're so right that this is the second time that meng yao voluntarily goes to his knees in front of nmj and is prepared to die by his hand. until, as you point out, he isn't anymore.

imo i don't think cql handles that change in jgy's mindset very well at all. in the novel it is clear just how much time and energy (physical and spiritual!) jgy has put into trying, and failing, both to regain nmj's good will while balancing the contradictory expectations and obligations placed upon him by his father. the stairs incident is explicitly where he pivots from working himself to the bone to get through to nmj, to deciding he's Done and ready to do some sworn fratricide. in cql it's very... wibbly-wobbly, nefarious villain music, which i think also contributes to, shall we say, less than charitable interpretations of meng yao's motivations in this specific scene in the scorching sun palace.

#Some other day I'll write something about JGY's fight flight freeze or fawn responses#And how this being arguably a fawn response does not make it insincere#And how it's fucking incredible the scrutiny this man is under that the audience is expected/made to ask whether he's sincere in this momen#Rather than acknowledging how fucked up it is that he's put in a position that requires a fawn response#It's important to remember where he is in his story right now- what he's already done vs hasn't done yet#This is before he's done ANY of the things fandom agrees are reprehensible#Only NMJ himself believes that of MY at this point (via @rejectedfables)

please don't leave the gold buried in your tags!!!

I really love the "scapegoat child is given away to an arranged marriage with someone they've been given reason to believe is likely to hurt them or otherwise make them suffer, except it turns out that person is actually very kind and saves them from their abusive family by showing them their first taste of genuine kindness" trope immensely and in the 3zun sphere I usually see it with nieyao, probably because the Jins are awful to Jin Guangyao and the Nies are very suitable for having a bloodthirsty and potentially violent reputation given their saber cultivation... but now I actually really want to see it with xiyao!

Give me a Jin Guangyao who is set to marry Lan Xichen and is genuinely terrified of what he has heard of the Cloud Recesses. He has heard that they are strict disciplinarians, that they have a wall of thousands of rules, and that if you break any of them then you get whipped—his cultivation is not strong enough to withstand that, he is certain. He has heard that they value purity of body, mind, and spirit, and have banned alcohol from Cloud Recesses—nevermind what they must think of a prostitute's son. He has even heard whispers of what happened to the last person to have married a Lan sect leader—the example that the current Lan-zongzhu must have been raised with.

He is very, very determined to be perfect, even more so than he had been at Jinlintai. As far as he is aware, that is the only way he will survive at all.

Something you have to understand about Jin Guangyao, and which makes him SO interesting to me, is that he started life at the bottom of the social ladder (grew up in a brothel, son of a sex worker and her client) and rose all the way to the top (Chief Cultivator, literally the leader of the cultivation world), and never once throughout all of that did he ever actually feel safe

#zhu zanjin thank you so much for this shot#seriously it would have been so cheap and bad without his acting choices#the way he looks at lan xichen when he realizes he’s staying#ugh#the love and gratitude and regret and guilt#and that final flicker of determination#but also the shocked relief#he wasn’t expecting lan xichen to actually stay#there is SO MUCH in that look#and lan xichen’s eyes are closed!#he doesn’t see any of it!#it’s not for his benefit it’s just#he loves him and he knows he’s hurt him and he knows he doesn’t deserve him#and when has anyone ever shown remorse for hurting jin guangyao#this is very possibly the first and only time in his life#where the person who hurt him didn’t mean to and showed him#that they wished they hadn’t#and tried to take it back and make up for it#and it’s also the moment he deserves that consideration the least#and so he just#can’t#let lan xichen do this#but lan xichen doesn’t see any of this!#he just sees the outstretched hand and that pained face after he pushes him#this kills the man 

hey quick question @madtomedgar. how dare you?

#I’ll never be over how he’s just taunting xichen with that line#stay and die with me! betcha you won’t do it!#knew you wouldn’t-wait you’re actually DOING IT?#even after YEARS#of playing xichen and not playing him and just thoroughly knowing him either way#xichen can still take him by surprise by just being himself#and being kind#and jgy has simultaneously won and lost in that one second#he now knows just how thoroughly he’s fucked xichen up FOR LIFE#but he now KNOWS he had at least one person who genuinely cared for him#and most of all he absolutely knows he won’t actually allow xichen to die with him#idk man I still have a lot of feelings about this scene#even after dissecting it a hundred different ways a hundred different times ( @bilboo )

okay so remember how i said that Jin Guangyao is like, both the hero and antagonist of that one musical about american history (please don’t sue me)?

yeah, i made a thing with that

WHAT THE SHOW WANTS ME TO THINK IS HAPPENING HERE: Jin Guangyao, criminal and political mastermind, is aware that Lan Wangji and this Mo Xuanyu impersonator are investigating Nie Mingjue’s murder. In light of the news from Yi City (which he would have heard from both Su Minshan and Jin Ling) and Lan Xichen’s uncharacteristic lack of communication, he is extremely concerned that a metaphorical noose is tightening around him.

WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE HAPPENING HERE: Jin Guangyao, event planner extraordinaire, cannot fucking beLIEVE that er-ge didn’t tell him that his brother and his brother’s suspicious boyfriend were coming to the Cultivation Conference. It is THE formal occasional of the year, its RSVP date passed weeks ago, everything was arranged PERFECTLY, and now he’s got to somehow come up with two extra place settings, redo the ENTIRE METICULOUSLY-DESIGNED SEATING CHART to accommodate them in a way that befits Hanguang-jun’s rank yet also downplays the presence of the guy he publicly expelled for harassing his wife (whom he needs to track down and warn ASAP because she’s going to be even less thrilled than he is!) yet ALSO puts both of them far away from Jiang Cheng (who seems to have beef with them and seems more stressed than usual), and all of this has to be accomplished WITHIN THE NEXT TWENTY MINUTES AS GUESTS ARE ACTIVELY TRICKLING INTO JINLINTAI.

Either Lan Xichen suspects him of murder, or Lan Xichen did not think bringing two bonus Gusu Lan attendees to the Cultivation Conference with zero notice would be a problem, and some part of Jin Guangyao hopes it’s the former because the latter is frankly more offensive.

Figuring out my video software with a simple edit. :)

Just wait for it. :)

(Audio taken from this YouTube channel. Give her a listen!)

5/?? - exclusive wangxianhub paid content

i love the way wei wuxian and jin guangyao have no relationship at all. like you've got your hero and you've got your villain and they're highly complementary characters who wind up being instrumental in each other's downfalls, and also they met like, what, four times? with zero one on one conversations? jin guangyao barely even bothers to manipulate wei wuxian during the temple showdown and wei wuxian watches jin guangyao die with all the emotion of someone who just noticed a dent in their car and is wondering how it got there

Don't leave that in the tags lol

based on the addition to this post by @fallcolorspringrapid which fucked me right up. 

Hold on, let me highlight one of my favorite acting moments in this show

This is demanding

This? Halfway through it begins to look more like pleading, less like trying to establish facts and more like trying to get through to JGY

I find it veeeery interesting that it’s at this moment that LWJ attempts to intervene