Okay but can anyone articulate the mindset that leads older people to feel like they NEED to know people's gender identity all the time? Like what's going on there
Cause it feels like I've had a hundred xonversations with cis straight people around 40-60 years old that goes like
Person: Did you see that?
Me: See what?
Person: That. It, him, whatever they're called
Me: (Sees a femme with masculine features)
Me: What about them
Person: Well what is that? He's dressed in women's clothes, so is he-it, they- What does that mean?
Me: I mean. If you're concerned about pronouns you can probably ask
Person: But do I call it a Mister or a miss?
Me: Well uh. That depends on what they tell you but "them" is usually safe.... but based on their makeup, hair, and heels I don't think they'd be mad if you assumed thry were a lady
Me: So like. I'd say she's probably just. Here for the event
Person: That's fine, I get that, I don't have a problem with trans people, I just don't get how you're supposed to know
Person: Like how do you know if someone is transsexual or just cross dressing?
Me: Uhhhhhhhh
Me: I mean
Me: I don't know. Any cross dressers. Who would be offended by being pronoun'd by their outfit. But like.
Me: I guess if you choose wrong. And they correct you. Then you just.... apologize and use what they tell you?
Me: .... Do you plan on talking to them?
Person: No
Me: Then why d. Why does it matter
Person: I'm just trying to understand
Me: And that's great! But like. You don't need to
Person: What
Me: You don't need to. Necessarily. Understand. You know?
Person: Huh
Me: They're here for the event. You don't have to interact with them. In two hours they'll go home and you'll never see them again
Person: I'm just confused
Me: You're allowed to be confused
Me: You can stay confused
Me: It's not illegal
There are strict rules about how to be polite to people and how to treat them in public based on gender & older people had those rules taught heavily (& in some cases literally beaten in to them). If they don't know someone's gender, they may feel like they literally don't know how to correctly interact with them. Do I hold the door even if they're a ways away when I go through the door? Do I stand up when they come into a room? (My dad does this; he was taught it was polite for a man to stand up if a woman comes into the room, where he wouldn't stand up if it was a guy. I don't know why that's the rule, but it is.)
A lot of those rules are no longer really in use at all, but it has helped me to start translating some of that for the older people in my life once I realized that. Oh, right. The rules they taught me and that I've mostly disregarded are, like, super fucking gendered. It probably makes them feel really anxious if they don't know what social scripts to use. It would probably help if I addressed that anxiety about how to treat that person.
And you know what? It seems to help.
It's also entirely normal for people to want to resolve confusion.
I'm not sure what about that is surprising
Yeah, but unless there's smth else behind it, most people can cope with "you don't need to know."
I'm only speaking to my experience but I've found, "You don't need to know "what they are," but if you're worried about treating them incorrectly, or rudely, I can try to help you with that," defuses the situation a lot of the time.
This 👆 - my siblings are in their 70s, my parents would be 95 right now (I was a late accident). The social rules my parents taught and my siblings learned were very very much about gender. Those rules didn’t ease up until the 1970s and there was backlash in the 1980s for a lot of them.
Most (cis) people my age and older (early 50s) have either had to very carefully rewrite that early code after exposure to queer culture, or they still feel completely at sea when they can’t pin down a person’s gender, and it creates a lot of anxiety for them. I’m not saying that excuses any transphobic behavior at all, by anyone of any age. Still, it’s worth keeping in mind that a LOT of the resistance and discomfort is, as @vaspider was above, a kind of social anxiety.
If you can replace that anxiety with guidelines for how to interact appropriately, most people are able to follow those rules and be kind.
Some people dig in, of course, but you can’t fix willful ignorance. You can, however, fix the regular kind, one interaction at a time.
For me the clue about the overall anxiety was "Mister or Miss?" Like, ahhhh, there it is. They're worried about which social scripts to use and how to be polite.