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Love Takes Work

@love-takes-work / love-takes-work.tumblr.com

Steven Universe side blog where I like Garnet a lot okay
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faelapis

i'm so glad i've mostly dodged the pearl/greg discourse lol. taking umbrage with doodles that arent even canon is silly. you are getting angry at literal colors and shapes. go outside.

if you want my actual interpretation, i see pearl as a lesbian in canon. i think that's probably more-or-less what they landed on, since canon never implied otherwise. in later seasons, she has like 500 gfs and nothing else is mentioned. she seems annoyed at male attention.

but i also see SU as a land where gender and sexuality are fluid, even more than in other gay media. gemkind approaches the idea of earth gender from an outsider pov. i think that's very intentional, this gender-nonconforming perspective from a non-binary creator. it's not just a gay show, it's a queer show.

the boundaries we call "gender" aren't that strict. amethyst can transform into a "male-passing" wrestling persona on a whim, then undo it just as quickly. steven can do drag and gems can present all over the place. its never a big deal. nobody cares whether their gender is "supposed" to do that.

i also think seperationism is lame as hell. i dont see a need to police who gets to be included in what gendered label, especially in fictional self-expression. all of that is based on a very strict, cisnormative, binary ideal of gender in the first place. that's not to say your individual, strongly held binary identity (i'm a binary man!) isn't "valid", just that being honest here, we cannot afford to police this stuff without invalidating other people. and while critique is allowed, i think one should be especially cautious in critiquing other people's creative expression of their own gender and sexuality.

Agree--as presented in canon, Pearl hasn't shown any interest in anyone who wasn't a Gem or a human woman, and has spurned the attraction of at least one human man (Dewey). But if the show had taken stuff in this direction, made this part of Pearl's character, then THAT would have been fine TOO.

Just like in real life, attractions that happen can change what we call ourselves. It would be OK if characters did that too.

And it's important that we understand our existing attractions do not constrict what attractions we can have in the future. If you are queer or have a large number of queer people in your social circle, the first thing you'll notice is this shit is MESSY. And I don't mean that in a negative sense. It's not easily defined. It doesn't stay in boxes. It doesn't always have a term immediately available. But the worst thing we can do with that is say "it can't happen because Person A identifies as Identity B." What we have to do is let the label catch up to the person. The messiness is exploration; it's freedom and adventure. It's one of the best things about queer communities. We splash around and find out what's out there, if we're fortunate enough to escape from the expectations that have always told us we'd be wrong to jump in.

They DIDN'T end up writing Pearl with attractions toward men onscreen, but if they had, that wouldn't have been an insult to lesbians. It would have just revealed aspects of her that we hadn't known about. (And we sure got some unrelated-to-sexuality revelations about things that had always been part of her toward the end of the show, so it wouldn't have been unheard-of.) Pearl makes sense how she was written in the show, and she'd also make sense if these writers had written her a different way, because past does not dictate present or future. I would have trusted Sugar and the Crew to carry that version of the story too, and do justice to it. I have several very queer people in my life who are in relationships that look heteronormative from the outside. Queerness involves throwing away the chains of what an identity label expects you to do and letting your feelings lead the way--and worrying what to name it afterwards.

There are lots of developmental materials that did not become canon and I think people also need to realize that. It's also true that Crew members played around with what-ifs, and now that we have the story they chose, looking at some of those what-ifs feels a little weird to some of us. It's OK if some of the things they thought about doing contradict with what they ended up doing, even if we like the final product better.

Oh yeah and as an addendum I really wanna emphasize that "what we feel now doesn't preclude things we can feel in the future" is NOT an excuse to tell someone ELSE, from OUTSIDE, that whatever they identify as isn't real and therefore lesbians should date men or asexual people should keep trying to be something else, etc. I understand that it's a problem (especially in women-loving-women circles) where sometimes any trace of fluidity is a signal that someone can come and demand that an individual person TRY to change. Recognizing fluidity, evolution, reevaluation, and broadening horizons is NOT the same thing as suggesting everyone is fluid and therefore obligated to TRY to change. (Especially, as I said, if it's through pressure from outside.) As an asexual woman I've had tons of pressure, mostly from men, to "be open" and "stop being so close-minded" when I say I know what my attractions are. Same goes for lesbians. This is a matter of respecting and recognizing when someone follows their own heart to something we didn't know about them before (and THEY may not have known about themselves before). It is NOT an excuse to pester queer people into doing something they AREN'T into, perceiving them as having no convictions of identity, or rewriting someone's real identity into something others can and should negotiate.

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faelapis

i'm so glad i've mostly dodged the pearl/greg discourse lol. taking umbrage with doodles that arent even canon is silly. you are getting angry at literal colors and shapes. go outside.

if you want my actual interpretation, i see pearl as a lesbian in canon. i think that's probably more-or-less what they landed on, since canon never implied otherwise. in later seasons, she has like 500 gfs and nothing else is mentioned. she seems annoyed at male attention.

but i also see SU as a land where gender and sexuality are fluid, even more than in other gay media. gemkind approaches the idea of earth gender from an outsider pov. i think that's very intentional, this gender-nonconforming perspective from a non-binary creator. it's not just a gay show, it's a queer show.

the boundaries we call "gender" aren't that strict. amethyst can transform into a "male-passing" wrestling persona on a whim, then undo it just as quickly. steven can do drag and gems can present all over the place. its never a big deal. nobody cares whether their gender is "supposed" to do that.

i also think seperationism is lame as hell. i dont see a need to police who gets to be included in what gendered label, especially in fictional self-expression. all of that is based on a very strict, cisnormative, binary ideal of gender in the first place. that's not to say your individual, strongly held binary identity (i'm a binary man!) isn't "valid", just that being honest here, we cannot afford to police this stuff without invalidating other people. and while critique is allowed, i think one should be especially cautious in critiquing other people's creative expression of their own gender and sexuality.

Agree--as presented in canon, Pearl hasn't shown any interest in anyone who wasn't a Gem or a human woman, and has spurned the attraction of at least one human man (Dewey). But if the show had taken stuff in this direction, made this part of Pearl's character, then THAT would have been fine TOO.

Just like in real life, attractions that happen can change what we call ourselves. It would be OK if characters did that too.

And it's important that we understand our existing attractions do not constrict what attractions we can have in the future. If you are queer or have a large number of queer people in your social circle, the first thing you'll notice is this shit is MESSY. And I don't mean that in a negative sense. It's not easily defined. It doesn't stay in boxes. It doesn't always have a term immediately available. But the worst thing we can do with that is say "it can't happen because Person A identifies as Identity B." What we have to do is let the label catch up to the person. The messiness is exploration; it's freedom and adventure. It's one of the best things about queer communities. We splash around and find out what's out there, if we're fortunate enough to escape from the expectations that have always told us we'd be wrong to jump in.

They DIDN'T end up writing Pearl with attractions toward men onscreen, but if they had, that wouldn't have been an insult to lesbians. It would have just revealed aspects of her that we hadn't known about. (And we sure got some unrelated-to-sexuality revelations about things that had always been part of her toward the end of the show, so it wouldn't have been unheard-of.) Pearl makes sense how she was written in the show, and she'd also make sense if these writers had written her a different way, because past does not dictate present or future. I would have trusted Sugar and the Crew to carry that version of the story too, and do justice to it. I have several very queer people in my life who are in relationships that look heteronormative from the outside. Queerness involves throwing away the chains of what an identity label expects you to do and letting your feelings lead the way--and worrying what to name it afterwards.

There are lots of developmental materials that did not become canon and I think people also need to realize that. It's also true that Crew members played around with what-ifs, and now that we have the story they chose, looking at some of those what-ifs feels a little weird to some of us. It's OK if some of the things they thought about doing contradict with what they ended up doing, even if we like the final product better.

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faelapis

i've complained about using the literal words wife/girlfriend/etc as the only measure of whether something is explicit rep, but in steven universe's case its particularly dense because like... steven calls rupphire his favorite couple. ruby asks sapphire to marry her. hello? that's literally the exact same level of obviousness as saying wife/girlfriend/etc, its just that literalness in a different context.

just. its right there. why did this become a thing. why do even people defending SU on twitter make it out like its this ambiguous "step" towards "better", more explicit representation. a marriage is as explicit as it gets, even if it was on a freakin' silent film. y'all are just being dumb at this point.

That’s right. As disingenuous and ignorant as the original post was (especially considering it came from someone who hadn’t even watched the show), it’s kind of amazing to me that there Actually Are people who watched the show and then gave it a retroactive look with their Holding Queer Creators To Impossible Standards goggles on in an effort to reframe the representation as less than explicit.

I will rephrase what I’ve already said before when I had this argument with someone who had actually seen the show but thought not calling them “wives” was censorship: 

Greg referred to them as "people who love each other" in "Keystone Motel." Steven whined that they were his "favorite couple" in "The Question," and Bismuth also said "they're my favorite couple!" in "Made of Honor." Garnet sings a song in "Jailbreak" about how she is made of love and Jasper must be jealous because she's single. At the end of "Keeping It Together" Garnet explains that the love Ruby and Sapphire have keeps her together. Steven prefaces the literal wedding with a song about wanting to only think about love. Ruby and Sapphire are called out explicitly for "flirting" by Lapis in "Hit the Diamond." Sapphire calls Ruby "sweetums" and Ruby calls her "baby" and "my laughy Sapphy." Garnet refers to them being in love during "The Answer." And let’s not even get STARTED with all the times those two danced romantically, held hands, and kissed, in some cases REALLY intimately.

Romantically coded language was CONSISTENTLY used to describe Ruby and Sapphire, and romantically coded actions were CONSTANTLY on display between them in ways that were entirely distinct from non-romantic intimacy. The Crew DID have to fight for this wedding and the point is that they won. If they hadn't, we wouldn't have seen any wedding at all. It just frankly makes no logical sense that people think they fell short by not calling them wives and are determined to see other references to their relationship as intentionally euphemistic when we have "marry me" and "favorite couple" and "you love each other!" and "I'm made of love."

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reblogged

Steven Universe: Eh, I don't really feel like saying "girlfriend" or "wife". Maybe they're together. They have a special connection...

(gets violently shoved aside)

The Loud House/Craig of the Creek/The Owl House: Pfft, amateur. "My GIRLFRIEND Sam and I..." "I'm texting my GIRLFRIEND, mind your business." "Luz's new GF showed her..."

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raulziito

Can we not do this thing? Do you realize that Rebecca had to fight for what we got with Rupphire and literally risked her job? and Pearl and Rose. Like, there is no need to knock other shows down because of Lumity.

These kids today, I tell you what. In my day you had to bury your girlfriends under subtext and then end the series when the truth was revealed.

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renthony

Risked her job, hell, it's an open secret now that the Rupphire wedding (which, may I remind folks, was the first queer wedding in a kids' cartoon, which is a BIG DEAL) is why everything about the rest of the series felt rushed. They had to scramble to tell the rest of the story because they took a gamble and the network retaliated by shortening their production time.

Rebecca Sugar and the crewniverse risked the entire show getting flat-out cancelled in order to show that wedding, only for people to say it "wasn't progressive enough" and was "giving in to stereotypes" to put Ruby in a wedding dress. Never mind that Ruby kept getting dubbed over as a guy in localization, Sapphire was unmistakably feminine in every version, and putting Ruby in the dress was a flagrant way to say, "fuck you, you can't pretend this is a straight couple; this is a queer couple and a queer wedding."

Dana Terrace has said that The Owl House only exists with its intended queerness because of what Rebecca Sugar and her team accomplished with Steven Universe. Hell, there are multiple members of the Steven Universe team who went on to work on the other shows mentioned in the OP--Steven Sugar, for example, who is Rebecca Sugar's brother and inspiration for SU in the first place (as well a background artist on the show), is currently an artist on The Owl House. There are people who got their start on Steven Universe who now only have the opportunity to tell more queer stories because of Steven Universe's success.

I'm not even 30 years old yet and I'm still old enough to remember when being gay was fully illegal in the United States. Not gay marriage, but literally just BEING GAY. It wasn't that long ago, and the fact that today in 2021 I can turn on the TV and watch gay cartoons intended for children? I never thought I'd see it. Fucking ever.

So let's stop pitting queer creators and media against each other, shall we?

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glimmah

idk guys it seems pretty subtle

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fgrobichiko

The fucking absurdity of going "ooo steven universe never said they were wivessss" when they HAD A FUCKING ONSCREEN WEDDING MY GOD

Like you're literally gal pal-ing them. That's literally what you're doing lmaoooo

Yep oh god I once had a Really Weird Conversation with someone who insisted that Steven said “I now pronounce you Garnet!” because of censorship--that somehow after a love song about a gay wedding with Gems in wedding clothes exchanging rings and vows and kissing full on on the lips in a close-up, the thing that REALLY would have mattered was calling them wives.

Like seriously. Think of it.

Some homophobic parent is sitting there entertaining the notion that maybe this is Not Gay until SOMEONE SAID WIVES HOLD UP THERE IS THIS GAAAAAYYYYYY???

“I now pronounce you GARNET!” is not a frigging dodge to get around confirmation! What in the world more do you need besides what happened onscreen over and over and over and over and over and over to agree that this was very much confirmed? How dare anyone cover their eyes to block out all this queerness and then say it’s the show’s fault they didn’t see it? 

(I mean, the real answer is that the OP literally said they’d never watched the show but hey it’s hilarious to say something so catastrophically ignorant about how gutless the show was in refusing to confirm its queer relationships with words, that’s the ONLY THING THAT WOULD MAKE IT REAL ya know. Couldn’t possibly be that most of the characters involved don’t have the same relationship with gender that cis humans do and wouldn’t be properly described by words like that.)

But sure by all means keep believing that SU fans are exaggerating how confirmed the queerness is. I guess “baby,” “beautiful,” “sweetums,” and “WILL YOU MARRY ME” are gal pal terms between bffs after all.

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faelapis

next to the many silly things about that post, um. i might get pushback for saying this, but i don't really think craig of the creek or the owl house are automatically queerer for saying the literal word girlfriend / wife / etc.

like... this is hard to describe, because it brushes with queerness as opposed to just the lgbt+ acronym, and queerness itself is tricky to define. but steven universe is deeply queer, labels aside.

its certainly good to have more shows with representation, but i don't think any of them really nails the 'queer sensibilities' of SU. everything from how it deals with gender, how the characters themselves relate to the hierarchies and strict social roles of homeworld, and its storylines and the very open secret of the metaphors of things like steven being misgendered and being feminine and the gems not quite understanding human society, even if not strictly 'literal'... there's just a deep well of underlying queerness about steven universe thats extremely hard to replicate, i think.

Very Big Agree. (And disclaimer: I also don’t think those other shows are bad at all or that they Do Queerness Wrong whatsoever--they’re doing great too.) There’s something to be said for absolute confirmation using language, but it’s really gatekeepey to say that’s the only way something queer is confirmed queer. ESPECIALLY for something like Steven Universe in which a) the relevant characters generally don’t call themselves “girls” or “women” in OTHER contexts either (though they don’t object to others labeling them), so use of feminine-term-based relationship language is weird to expect of them; and b) the fundamental, quintessential queerness that the show grew up in is something far more relatable to many of us who also didn’t have language for ourselves but were able to see “us” in this.

Rebecca’s talked about what a journey they’ve been on, and how others were able to use this show to have wonderful conversations with their loved ones even though REBECCA hadn’t been able to get there. She went through denial and grief and a whole heaping helping of impostor syndrome, thinking she wasn’t queer enough because how could you even want to be called bisexual if you were with a man and everyone thought you were a woman, thinking she was bad deep down because the messages she related to and the relationships that resonated with her were branded dirty, inappropriate, or just “not for you” in a way that felt shameful. Out of that came Steven Universe, a show where nobody had to specifically name it to see it, feel it, and recognize it.

These alien Gem characters ALL had the experience of being gendered “woman” and not relating to it but not disliking it enough to specifically say “don’t call me that,” and they were outside human concepts of gender in a way that made space for similar human viewers to say “that’s me.” It’s okay that sometimes the aliens called “she,” the trans allegories that paralleled Steven’s journey, and the same-sex relationships we saw onscreen did not map letter for letter onto real life, because all of us knew what it was inherently, easily, joyfully. It’s so strange that anyone looks at this show and creates a whole new gauntlet for it to run based on a very specific type of “confirmation” and develops asinine rules about what a show should have to do to qualify as legitimately queer. Nobody’s asking for THEIR permission, and nobody agreed that THEIR rules are the recognized measure of queer representation. Not a damn thing was subtle about the multiple queer relationships in the show--and the haters were so fixated on how it Didn’t Call Them Girlfriends that they utterly missed the fact that straight couples were also not described by that language.

This show was SO MUCH. It’s baffling--and laughable--that anyone would create an absurd test structured for This Show to “fail.” 

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ankle-beez

Tumblr is infinitely better than Twitter because when someone says a bad take about Steven universe on Twitter everyone circlejerks around themselves repeating the same 5 easily refutable points from the Lily orchard video but when someone does that on Tumblr nowadays they get fucking dragged down by exhausted people who were forced to listen to these points for more than 4 years

Twitter when someone brings back annoying su discourse: haha Steven universe bad! Epic chungus 3000 moment haha LOL

Tumblr when someone tries to bring back annoying su discourse: no. Fuck you we're not doing this again. Go to hell

And then not only do they have to delete their post but they have to delete the posts complaining about those posts

And like . . . YOU CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT YOU WANT TO MAKE but SU is not a good example of the thing they want to complain about! OK, whine about Unclear Representation, queerbaiting, and lack of courage all you want but you need to find another show if you want to sneer about unconfirmed queerness and empty gestures. This show was the opposite of ambiguous about the queerness of its relationships and the ONLY thing you prove by whining about how it wasn’t straightforward enough is that you didn’t watch it.

(The OP didn’t watch it, and was proud of that.)

go to hell indeed

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