I used to work for a trade book reviewer where I got paid to review people's books, and one of the rules of that review company is one that I think is just super useful to media analysis as a whole, and that is, we were told never to critique media for what it didn't do but only for what it did.

So, for instance, I couldn't say "this book didn't give its characters strong agency or goals". I instead had to say, "the characters in this book acted in ways that often felt misaligned with their characterization as if they were being pulled by the plot."

I think this is really important because a lot of "critiques" people give, if subverted to address what the book does instead of what it doesn't do, actually read pretty nonsensical. For instance, "none of the characters were unique" becomes "all of the characters read like other characters that exist in other media", which like... okay? That's not really a critique. It's just how fiction works. Or "none of the characters were likeable" becomes "all of the characters, at some point or another, did things that I found disagreeable or annoying" which is literally how every book works?

It also keeps you from holding a book to a standard it never sought to meet. "The world building in this book simply wasn't complex enough" becomes "The world building in this book was very simple", which, yes, good, that can actually be a good thing. Many books aspire to this. It's not actually a negative critique. Or "The stakes weren't very high and the climax didn't really offer any major plot twists or turns" becomes "The stakes were low and and the ending was quite predictable", which, if this is a cute romcom is exactly what I'm looking for.

Not to mention, I think this really helps to deconstruct a lot of the biases we carry into fiction. Characters not having strong agency isn't inherently bad. Characters who react to their surroundings can make a good story, so saying "the characters didn't have enough agency" is kind of weak, but when you flip it to say "the characters acted misaligned from their characterization" we can now see that the *real* problem here isn't that they lacked agency but that this lack of agency is inconsistent with the type of character that they are. a character this strong-willed *should* have more agency even if a weak-willed character might not.

So it's just a really simple way of framing the way I critique books that I think has really helped to show the difference between "this book is bad" and "this book didn't meet my personal preferences", but also, as someone talking about books, I think it helps give other people a clearer idea of what the book actually looks like so they can decide for themselves if it's worth their time.

Update: This is literally just a thought exercise to help you be more intentional with how you critique media. I'm not enforcing this as some divine rule that must be followed any time you have an opinion on fiction, and I'm definitely not saying that you have to structure every single sentence in a review to contain zero negative phrases. I'm just saying that I repurposed a rule we had at that specific reviewer to be a helpful tool to check myself when writing critiques now. If you don't want to use the tool, literally no one (especially not me) can or wants to force you to use it. As with all advice, it is a totally reasonable and normal thing to not have use for every piece of it that exists from random strangers on the internet. Use it to whatever extent it helps you or not at all.

longlivefeedback

I think this post and advice is more for fanfiction betas or people helping other people edit and refine their stories before publishing.

Posting on this blog because most of the followers on the blog are writers and this may be useful to you if you read/beta for other writers.

afriendlyirin

Why would you think that? This is perfectly reasonable advice for analyzing a completed work too.

longlivefeedback

Personal style. When I've read a fic and am filling out the comment box on AO3, I tend to be in the mindset of thanking the author for writing and posting and want to scream about the good bits with them because that's what gave me joy and all those good feelings. Share the love with a fellow fan, y'know? I do not tend to be analytical about what I've just read because I read fanfiction for fun and for leisure and analyzing a piece of writing is work to me.

I am much more in the mindframe of giving critique when I am reviewing a work as a beta. That's why I said this post is more for betas/editors/people in OP's situation where they are being paid to do a book review. But hey, if OP's post helps you leave comments on fanfic then great! Glad it works for you ❤️

#feedback #feedback culture #afriendlyirin

longlivefeedback

Anonymous asked:

I really want to comment constructive criticism on some peoples fics but I’m not sure how. I tend to be really sensitive about my works and so I assume that other people are as well. I also don’t want to take away from the fact that I did still enjoy their fic. Can you help me do this without sounding rude or ungrateful for them writing the fic? (Sorry if you’ve already written something about this that I didn’t see)

Hi Anon,

This post where I talk about the importance of context around concrit will hopefully prompt you to ask some questions about your situation before you give any concrit. It's a long read and was written years ago, but still largely holds true to my current opinion and any advice I would give on this matter.

There are also a few posts and previous asks about concrit on this blog which you can find if you follow the #concrit tag.

~mod dragonling

#llf asks #concrit #constructive criticism #feedback

longlivefeedback reblogged

writingwithfolklore

Giving and Receiving Great Feedback

A part of every writing process is receiving feedback from others, and likely reading someone else’s work and giving it yourself. First, we do this because there’s no such thing as a perfect writer, and what happens in our heads when we read our own work may not necessarily be what the reader is getting. As well, reading others’ work helps you with your literacy skills, and what’s important to you as a reader (plus, it’s just nice to return the favour).

So here’s some tips to giving good feedback:

Your should never tear apart the work. Your feedback should inspire the writer to keep going and make their piece better—not quit or give up. Balance suggestions and compliments.
Try to refrain from suggesting your own ideas unless specifically asked for. What I mean by that is avoiding statements such as, “maybe instead of (this), the characters do (this)” your job is not to write the story for them, and often, you might not be making the work better, just different.
Ask pointed questions instead, but ultimately leave the work up to the writer. Something like, “I wonder what (character) was thinking during this moment?” Or “from what I know so far, here’s my prediction for what’s going to happen.” It’s up to the writer to decide whether your questions/predictions need to be answered in the work, and how.
Always start and end with some specific positive feedback. There is always something good about every piece of work—it can be a great detail, some interesting dialogue, a concept you really like, the tone, a character.
In general, it’s most helpful to include specifics or details about what’s working and not working in the piece. Take quotes, write down page numbers and paragraphs, lines. That’s infinitely more helpful than just saying “your descriptions are well written.” If you catch yourself saying that, try adding, “such as in line (really good line) or (another good line).”

When receiving feedback, remember it’s ultimately your work and you get the final say, but remain open to the suggestions and comments you’re receiving. Try them out, but don’t be afraid to end up not including them if they aren’t working for you. Never argue, even if you think your feedback giver is wrong—they took time out of their day to read your work, you should thank them for their thoughts. Even something simple like, “Thank you very much for your feedback, I appreciate the time you took to read my work” is great.

If you’re looking for a feedback buddy, maybe try pairing up in the comments or reblogging this post! There’s a great community of writers here, don’t be afraid to reach out.

Good luck!

#writing #writing tips #writing advice #feedback #feedback tips #feedback culture #beta #betas #beta reader #beta work

longlivefeedback reblogged

destinationtoast

duckprintspress

Giving Quality, Motivating Feedback

A guest post by @shealynn88!

The new writer in your writing group just sent out their latest story and it’s...not exciting. You know it needs work, but you’re not sure why, or where they should focus.

This is the blog post for you!

Before we get started, it’s important to note that this post isn’t aimed at people doing paid editing work. In the professional world, there are developmental editors, line editors, and copy editors, who all have a different focus. That is not what we’re covering here. Today, we want to help you informally give quality, detailed, encouraging feedback to your fellow writers.

The Unwritten Rules

Everyone seems to have a different understanding of what it means to beta, edit, or give feedback on a piece, so it’s best to be on the same page with your writer before you get started.

Think about what type of work you’re willing and able to do, how much time you have, and how much emotional labor you’re willing to take on. Then talk to your writer about their expectations.

Responsibilities as an editor/beta may include:

Know what the author’s expectation is and don’t overstep. Different people in different stages of writing are looking for, and will need, different types of support. It’s important to know what pieces of the story they want feedback on. If they tell you they don’t want feedback on dialogue, don’t give them feedback on dialogue. Since many terms are ambiguous or misunderstood, it may help you to use the list of story components in the next section to come to an agreement with your writer on what you’ll review.
Don’t offer expertise you don’t have. If your friend needs advice on their horse book and you know nothing about horses, be clear that your read through will not include any horse fact checking. Don’t offer grammar advice if you’re not good at grammar. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t give feedback on things you do notice, but don’t misrepresent yourself, and understand your own limits.
Give positive and constructive feedback. It is important for a writer to know when something is working well. Don’t skimp on specific positive feedback — this is how you keep writers motivated. On the other hand, giving constructive feedback indicates where there are issues. Be specific on what you’re seeing and why it’s an issue. It can be hard for someone to improve if they don’t understand what’s wrong.
Be clear about your timing and availability, and provide updates if either changes. Typically, you’ll be doing this for free, as you’re able to fit it in your schedule. But it can be nerve wracking to hand your writing over for feedback and then hear nothing. For everyone’s sanity, keep the writer up to date on your expected timeline and let them know if you’re delayed for some reason. If you cannot complete the project for them, let them know. This could be for any reason — needing to withdraw, whatever the cause, is valid! It could be because working with the writer is tough, you don’t enjoy the story, life got tough, you got tired, etc. All of that is fine; just let them know that you won’t be able to continue working on the project.
Be honest if there are story aspects you can’t be objective about. Nearly all of your feedback is going to be personal opinion. There are some story elements that will evoke strong personal feelings. They can be tropes, styles, specific characterizations, or squicks. In these cases, ask the writer to get another opinion on that particular aspect, or, if you really want to continue, find similar published content to review and see if you can get a better sense of how other writers have handled it.
Don’t get personal. Your feedback should talk about the characters, the narrator, the plotline, the sentence structure, or other aspects of the story. Avoid making ‘you’ statements or judgements, suggested or explicit, in your feedback. Unless you’re looking at grammar or spelling, most of the feedback you’ll have will be your opinion. Don’t present it as fact.

Your expectations of the writer/friend/group member you are working with may include:

Being gracious in accepting feedback. A writer may provide explanations for an issue you noticed or seek to discuss your suggestions. However, if they constantly argue with you, that may be an indicator to step back.
Being responsible for emotional reactions to getting feedback. While getting feedback can be hard on the ego and self esteem, that is something the writer needs to work on themselves. While you can provide reassurance and do emotional labor if you’re comfortable, it is also very reasonable to step back if the writer isn’t ready to do that work.
Making the final choice regarding changes to the work. The writer should have a degree of confidence in accepting or rejecting your feedback based on their own sense of the story. While they may consult you on this, the onus is on them to make changes that preserve the core of the story they want to tell.

Some people aren’t ready for feedback, even though they’re seeking it. You’re not signing up to be a psychologist, a best friend, or an emotional support editor. You can let people know in advance that these are your expectations, or you can just keep them in mind for your own mental health. As stated above, you can always step back from a project, and if writers aren’t able to follow these few guidelines, it might be a good time to do that. (It’s also worth making sure that, as a writer, you’re able to give these things to your beta/editor.)

Specificity is Key

One of the hardest things in editing is pinning down the ‘whys’ of unexciting work, so let’s split the writing into several components and talk about evaluations you can make for each one.

You can also give this list to your writer ahead of time as a checklist, to see which things they want your feedback on.

Generally, your goal is going to be to help people improve incrementally. Each story they write should be better than the previous one, so you don’t need to go through every component for every story you edit. Generally, I wouldn’t suggest more than 3 editing rounds on any single story that isn’t intended for publication. Think of the ‘many pots’ theory — people who are honing their craft will improve more quickly by writing a lot of stories instead of incessantly polishing one.

With this in mind, try addressing issues in the order below, from general to precise. It doesn’t make sense to critique grammar and sentence structure if the plot isn’t solid, and it can be very hard on a writer to get feedback on all these components at once. If a piece is an early or rough draft, try evaluating no more than four components at a time, and give specific feedback on what does and doesn’t work, and why.

High Level Components

Character arc/motivation:

Does each character have a unique voice, or do they all sound the same?
In dialogue, are character voices preserved? Do they make vocabulary and sentence-structure choices that fit with how they’re being portrayed?
Does each character have specific motivations and focuses that are theirs alone?
Does each character move through the plot naturally, or do they seem to be shoehorned/railroaded into situations or decisions for the sake of the plot? Be specific about which character actions work and which don’t. Tell the writer what you see as their motivation/arc and why—and point out specific lines that indicate that motivation to you.
Does each character's motivation seem to come naturally from your knowledge of them?
Are you invested (either positively or negatively) in the characters? If not, why not? Is it that they have nothing in common with you? Do you not understand where they’re coming from? Are they too perfect or too unsympathetic?

Theme:

It’s a good idea to summarize the story and its moral from your point of view and provide that insight to the writer. This can help them understand if the points they were trying to make come through. The theme should tie in closely with the character arcs. If not, provide detailed feedback on where it does and doesn’t tie in.

Plot Structure:

For most issues with plot structure, you can narrow them down to pacing, characterization, logical progression, or unsatisfying resolution. Be specific about the issues you see and, when things are working well, point that out, too.

Is there conflict that interests you? Does it feel real?
Is there a climax? Do you feel drawn into it?
Do the plot points feel like logical steps within the story?
Is the resolution tied to the characters and their growth? Typically this will feel more real and relevant and satisfying than something you could never have seen coming.
Is the end satisfying? If not, is it because you felt the end sooner and the story kept going? Is it because too many threads were left unresolved? Is it just a matter of that last sentence or two being lackluster?

Point Of View:

Is the point of view clear and consistent?
Is the writing style and structure consistent with that point of view? For example, if a writer is working in first person or close third person, the style of the writing should reflect the way the character thinks. This extends to grammar, sentence structure, general vocabulary and profanity outside of the dialogue.
If there is head hopping (where the point of view changes from chapter to chapter or section to section), is it clear in the first few sentences whose point of view you’re now in? Chapter headers can be helpful, but it should be clear using structural, emotional, and stylistic changes that you’re with a new character now.
Are all five senses engaged? Does the character in question interact with their environment in realistic, consistent ways that reflect how people actually interact with the world?
Sometimes the point of view can feel odd if it’s too consistent. Humans don’t typically think logically and linearly all the time, so being in someone’s head may sometimes be contradictory or illogical. If it’s too straightforward, it might not ‘feel’ real.

Be specific about the areas that don’t work and break them down based on the questions above.

Pacing:

Does the story jump around, leaving you confused about what took place when?
Do some scenes move quickly where others drag, and does that make sense within the story?
If pacing isn’t working, often it’s about the level of detail or the sentence structure. Provide detailed feedback about what you care about in a given scene to help a writer focus in.

Setting:

Is the setting clear and specific? Writing with specific place details is typically more rooted, interesting, and unique. If you find the setting vague and/or uninteresting and/or irrelevant, you might suggest replacing vague references — ‘favorite band’, ‘coffee shop on the corner’, ‘the office building’ — with specific names to ground the setting and make it feel more real.
It might also be a lack of specific detail in a scene that provides context beyond the characters themselves. Provide specific suggestions of what you feel like you’re missing. Is it in a specific scene, or throughout the story? Are there scenes that work well within the story, where others feel less grounded? Why?

Low Level Components

Flow/Sentence Structure:

Sentence length and paragraph length should vary. The flow should feel natural.
When finding yourself ‘sticking’ on certain sentences, provide specific feedback on why they aren’t working. Examples are rhythm, vocabulary, subject matter (maybe something is off topic), ‘action’ vs ‘explanation’, passive vs. active voice.

Style/Vocabulary:

Writing style should be consistent with the story — flowery prose works well for mythic or historical pieces and stories that use that type of language are typically slower moving. Quick action and short sentences are a better fit for murder mysteries, suspense, or modern, lighter fiction.
Style should be consistent within the story — it may vary slightly to show how quickly action is happening, but you shouldn’t feel like you’re reading two different stories.

SPAG (Spelling and Grammar):

Consider spelling and grammar in the context of the point of view, style and location of the story (eg, England vs. America vs. Australia).
If a point of view typically uses incorrect grammar, a SPAG check will include making sure that it doesn’t suddenly fall into perfect grammar for a while. In this case, consistency is going to be important to the story feeling authentic.

Word Count Requirements:

If the story has been written for a project, bang, anthology, zine, or other format that involves a required word count minimum or maximum, and the story is significantly over or under the aimed-for word count (30% or more/less), it may not make sense to go through larger edits until the sizing is closer to requirements. But, as a general rule, I’d say word count is one of the last things to worry about.

The best thing we can do for another writer is to keep them writing. Every single person will improve if they keep going. Encouragement is the most important feedback of all.

I hope this has helped you think about how you provide feedback. Let us know if you have other tips or tricks! This works best as a collaborative process where we all can support one another!

#feedback #longlivefeedback #writing feedback #writing culture

longlivefeedback

Anonymous asked:

I think it might help to remember that feedback isn't always immediate. Sometimes I'll get a comment on a fic I wrote over two years ago, and it's always a pleasant surprise. Or I'll check out a new fandom and discover a story from 2011 that is everything I didn't know I wanted. Writing is a long term investment, it'll live beyond you and continue to enchant readers over a long period of time. That's one of the things I love about written stories, and it helps me to think about it this way.

Thanks for the perspective, Anon!

I would encourage readers to not let how old a fic is deter you from commenting! Just because a fic was posted 1 month, 1 year, or 10 years ago, leave a comment! You may just make an author's day :)

#llf asks #feedback #feedback culture #commenting culture #commenting and culture

longlivefeedback

Anonymous asked:

hi, how are you? hope you are doing fine.

i'm struggling. i know writing in any other language other than english hits different on Ao3.

but,

i wrote my first longfic for this fest hosted on a facebook group. i always thought i was uncapable of writing a plotty story (mi longest fic was 6k... this one is more than 90) so this motivated me to prove me wrong. and yes i enjoyed the process, but it was really hard work, it consumed 3 months of my life and by that i mean i couldn't think about anything else, sometimes i would think it was a huge pile of garbage and i was wasting my time. but i kept going.

and then the day came, the fic dropped, and i like how the story turned out to be! it has a every element i enjoy reading. my beta helped me a lot with critique. i was very careful with grammar and spelling. i think it's sexy, original, funny, meaningful.... i was proud to post it.

so i read it and i think: fuck. what am i missing here? what am i not seeing? why no one likes my writing? is it really that bad?

i tend to think people on this fandom hold hands with "oldies" and give their back to people like me, that just started posting. but maybe i'm creating this fake image to 'cope' with it lol.

i try not to think about it and not even opening my email because i'm too sensitive to find nothing. nothing. all the time. but i found your blog and thought maybe i would share it. fuck, i cry as i write this lfmaooooo fuckkkkkkklkkk

😢 I'm so sorry, Anon. *gives you a hug and holds you*

Your situation is a rough one to be in and my heart goes out to you.

Before I talk about the feedback on your fic, can I just say what an amazing job you've done as a writer??!

To put things into perspective:

This is your first longfic! 😱 🎉🎊💐 That is amazing and a feat in itself!! Give yourself a huge pat on the back and you can cross that off your bucket list!
You wrote 90k words in 3 months. Writing 90k of anything is hard as it is, and you did it. In 3 months. For context, NaNoWriMo has a word count goal of 50k words in a month. Crucially: "Word count is the only measure of "success" on Nanowrimo; quality is irrelevant." You not only wrote all those words, you also edited your story and polished it in the space of three months. That's a superhuman effort and you should be proud!
You kept going even though you had self-doubt. That's incredibly resilient of you and shows an incredible amount of hard word, determination, and self-discipline. Do not discount the value of finishing something. Something is better than nothing. Perfection is a myth. You finished the fic and it is art and it exists. That is amazing. And you did that.

Anon, I just want to take a moment to appreciate what you did. Breathe and give yourself a pat on the back. Congratulations! You did it!

Okay. Now to address your main concern in your ask: I'm sorry you feel unsupported in your journey thus far.

Especially if you're new to posting, having expectations about the level of support you will receive for your work and to have reality not meet them is devastating.

I don't know why it seems like no one is reading and responding to your work. Every writer who has posted for fandom has probably asked themselves the same questions that you're asking now. None of us have the answer. Writing and marketing are two different skills. Quality does not equal popularity/visibility.

However, here are a few things to consider to help 'explain' away the lack of feedback you've received. They may or may not be helpful:

Was all the fic posted all at once or over a short span of time? Lots of fics at one time (ala big bang style) can be overwhelming for readers. Fics get lost in the shuffle. Readers can only read one fic at a time and it may be that readership is spoilt for choice and yours is the unlucky one that didn't get read :(.
Relatedly, 90K is a lot of words. Some readers may be intimidated. Some may be saving yours for last! If all fics for your event are 90K+, it will take time for readers to make it through any one fic. However, I know that hope can be a double-edged sword. If you need to step away from the emails for your mental health, do that. Turn off email notifications for emails. Don't check your AO3 inbox. The comments will be there when you're ready to come back. And if they are still not there, at least you've had a few days break from the agony of anticipation.
Are there other sites you can post your work to? The way you wrote the opening of your ask indicates that your fic wasn't written in English (apologies if I misinterpreted this!) I believe that most of AO3's readers look for fics in English, so if there are alternative sites that are more popular for fics in a certain language, can you post to them? Maybe you will have more luck with say a fic written in Italian at a site where the readership is mostly looking for Italian fics?
What does your beta think? Your beta seems to have helped you a lot through the process. Hopefully you've built up enough of a rapport with them that you feel comfortable speaking to them about this. This is obviously weighing on you a lot and having someone to support you, even if it's just 1 person, can make a world of difference. So, have you spoken to them about your disappointment? If they're also from the fandom, do they have a perspective that they can offer to help bear this burden? If not them, is there someone else familiar with your situation that you trust enough to speak to that can support you?
Have you talked to mods/fellow writers in your event about it? Chances are that you are not the only writer facing this. Maybe you can read and give feedback on each other's work? If mods are open to feedback for their event, maybe raise this as a concern to them? This has obviously been a very discouraging experience for you, and if the point of the event was to nurture/encourage participation in your fandom, this is having the opposite effect. At the very least, at least you've said your piece and hopefully it will bring you some closure on this. In a better outcome, maybe there's something mods can do to help you promote your work?

As an aside, I did not quite understand this part of your ask:

i tend to think people on this fandom hold hands with "oldies" and give their back to people like me, that just started posting. but maybe i'm creating this fake image to 'cope' with it lol.

Does this mean that there's an "in" group with older fans who are very exclusive and make it hard for newer fans to feel included and part of the fandom? Or the opposite where older fans are very inclusive and "have the backs" i.e. support newer fans a lot? Apologies for not quite following your meaning here.

All that been said though, none of this really helps give you what you really crave the most for. So. Fuck it. Find your favourite phrase or paragraph that you wrote in this fic. Send it in. I'll give you feedback on it :)

You're doing amazing Anon. I'm so proud of you.

#llf asks #anonymous #feedback #commenting and community #longlivefeedback #writing

longlivefeedback

Anonymous asked:

Re: introverts with social anxiety finding friends IRL. Not sure if you were hoping for advice, but I legit wait for other people to befriend me. I'm not exaggerating when I say I have two people I consider close friends outside my family and maybe another two dozen I'm casual friends with (mostly fandom friends who did what you suggested and reached out to me.) In my experience, finding community and making friends is a mysterious and uncontrollable thing for a socially anxious introvert X'D

I was looking for advice/suggestions/people's experiences :'D

On this blog, we've thought about why people don't comment (AO3 link) and are aware that social anxiety is a thing :(

But apart from making tool like a standardized template for author notes for authors to ask for feedback and a comment builder to help readers learn how to comment, I've recently been trying to approach thinking about comments as more about finding and building community instead of seeing how we can increase the comment counter on works.

And to be honest, I've found myself at a bit of a loss on how to build community and how I can use this blog to help. I'd like to hear from the community to see what the needs are that this blog can help with so thank you for sending in this ask!

Back to your ask specifically, though. Finding community can indeed be mysterious and uncontrollable and if you are in a position like Anon where you are waiting for other people to make the first move and befriend you, I don't see much option other than accepting that and being comfortable with it. I think you would only cause yourself a lot of grief if you want tons of people to reach out first to befriend you (you have no control over other people's actions) but are also unwilling/unable to increase the chances of making a new friend by reaching out first (you can't really want to have your cake and also eat it).

If people do reach out to you/starting commenting on your works, though, and you would like to show your appreciation and maybe help sustain the connection, here are some things that I hope you'll be comfortable enough to do:

Reply to the comment on AO3. Forget about appearing dishonest and inflating the comment counter or that it's too late to respond because they commented hours/days/weeks/months/years ago. If your priority is in making a friend, numbers shouldn't matter.
Honour your social contract. If someone says hi and asks how your day was, please try to say hi back and ask them how their day was. If you find that you can't do that because of your social anxiety/Real Life obligations...
...be honest with the person and set expectations. Relationships are all about communication and fandom friendships are no different. Tell them what you can or cannot do, try to find a compromise or common understanding or an arrangement that is acceptable to both parties in terms of frequency/platform/type/language of communication.
If you try all that and things still fizzle out, accept it for what it is and know that it's okay. It was just not meant to be or you were both just looking for different things. And that's ok! You'll have to wait longer, but that is the way things go.
Be kind to yourself. Be kind to others. And don't forget to have fun!

#feedback #llf asks #anonymous #social anxiety #commenting #community #commenting and community #fandom

longlivefeedback

when-did-this-become-difficult asked:

In terms of using fandom events like fanfiction exchanges to find fandom friends, I super recommend fandomcalendar on dreamwidth! And then going to any discord channels associated with events you might like

Another good option for finding community in fandom: Dreamwidth!

I haven't really used the site much myself, but I've heard good things and it resembles LiveJournal and seems popular with the RP fandom.

Here's a primer on DreamWidth by @farfromdaylight for those of you who would like to know more.

#dreamwidth #I keep forgetting about this site :(#I have an account but I haven't logged in in years #thanks for the ask!#feedback

longlivefeedback reblogged

ao3commentoftheday

Anonymous asked:

Hi! I am currently into a somewhat large fandom and I am growing discouraged by how little feedback I seem to receive from it. The few comments I get are full of praise, but I have fics that are months old and have plenty of hits that don't have a single comment. Even when looking at other people's fics I often see they have few to no comments unless they're made by the most popular authors. I was wondering if you have advice on how to deal with this extremely unresponsive fandom, because I love writing for it but I'm getting tired of its general attitude

ao3commentoftheday answered:

In a situation like this, I think the best way forward to find a smaller audience.

I don't mean abandoning the fandom (unless of course that's what you want to do). What I mean is, try to find a small community within the fandom. Once you have a few friends that you can talk to about fic and about characters and about plot ideas, you'll find that the response on AO3 might just feel less important.

When it comes to making fandom friends, you can do it the same way that you would in person. Find a place (tumblr, twitter, discord, reddit, tiktok), show up regularly, and say hi to the people you see there.

I made friends on tumblr by following people I found in the fandom tags and then sending them asks when they posted ask memes. I made friends in fic by commenting on other author's works and chatting back and forth in our responses.

Large fandoms can be just as isolating as small ones if you don't know anyone else. Start looking around for people who like the same ships/characters/plots that you like and follow them. You'll probably find that the popular authors became popular for more than just their writing.

How do the rest of you make friends in your fandoms? And what do you do when you find you're not getting a response?

longlivefeedback

I've made fandom friends with authors by commenting on their works. Sometimes they respond, sometimes they don't. Of the ones that do respond, not all turn into fandom friends. I've noticed that the ones that do have a few things in common for me:

The commenting turned into conversations. At some point, the comments I was writing on their fics felt like old fanshioned long form letters. It felt like I had a penpal and our conversation moved from me complimenting their work into us discussing things we liked about the characters, our head canons, etc.
We connected on more than ao3. +10000 to what @ao3commentoftheday has already said about showing up and saying hi. I've initiated conversations, sent asks, responded when I can and just tried my best to be a good conversation partner.
Join fandom events. This is a way to finding a smaller community within the fandom. Try doing a big bang, a reverse bang, an exchange, etc. A lot of these events are advertised on twitter/tumblr and they'll have servers on discord for them.
Show up in those discords and start conversations there. Move into DMs if you find someone you really click with. Talk about fandom. Talk about things outside fandom. Be a friend.

Acknowledge that even if you do all this, sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes the conversation peters out. Sometimes Real Life gets in the way. Sometimes it's not the right time, not the right place, or both of you are looking for different things.

Of the hundreds/thousands of comments I've left on fics, there's probably only a handful of people I would consider fandom friends. That's ok. Acknowledge that there's no fault or blame to go around, and keep trying until you find what you're looking for.

Does it take a bit of work? Sure. But what relationship doesn't? The ones that stick though, I try to never take those for granted. I appreciate the time that I have with them, and I try to keep showing up and saying hi and sending ask memes.

introversiontherapy

This sounds really great in theory but to an introvert with social anxiety this is legit torture.

longlivefeedback

@introversiontherapy and other people with social anxiety:

How do you make friends or connections in real life?
What do you do to make things easier?
Can any of them be applied to fandom?

#commenting #commenting and culture #community #commenting and community #feedback

longlivefeedback reblogged

fanfictiondatascience

How to Get More Reviews: A Data Analysis

A time-shifted serial correlation analysis of reviewing and being reviewed.

Is it true that giving someone a review will make that person more likely to write reviews as well? Conversely, is it true instead that writing more reviews yourself will help you get more reviews from others?

In this post, we explore one avenue of reciprocity by analyzing the time series of reviews given vs. reviews received.

Of course, you have to be careful with this technique. The inspiration of the analysis we utilized comes partly from Tyler Vigen’s Spurious Correlations site (http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations) where he shows interesting correlations between clearly unrelated events. With a humorous perspective, he reminds us that correlation is not evidence of causation (since sociology doctorates and rocket launches are totally coincidental), but the analysis techniques here are an interesting technique to investigate potential relationships between two different time series.

Back to our topic of reciprocity, we wanted to investigate the relationship between reviews given and reviews received. We had two hypotheses that we were interested in testing: first, we were curious if users who received more reviews would be more inclined to give reviews themselves. Second, we were curious if giving reviews would help increase the number of reviews you personally received.

To get into specifics, here is an example plot of a real user’s review activity.

Let’s break it down. This plot follows the activity of a single user over the course of several years. It plots the total amount of reviews that they gave (in red) and also the total number of reviews that they had received on their fan fictions (in blue). What this chart shows us is that this is a user who has had a very consistent amount of activity in terms of giving out reviews. It also captures spikes in the number of reviews received (blue) which may correspond to having released a new chapter.

If there was a strong link between reviews given and reviews received in either direction, we would expect to see that increases in one is followed by increases in the other. Here is an example where we witness such a relationship:

Since it is harder to analyze the change in activity level from these cumulative plots, we then looked at the total number of reviews given each month. Here’s what that looks like for the same person:

This time, it is more apparent that there is a similar pattern in the activity behavior for the reviews given and reviews received. For this example, that similarity is a similar spiking pattern.

From Vigen’s website, we could naively apply a correlation calculation here, but there is a glaring flaw: one of the time series is clearly ahead of the other. So, what if we just shifted one of the time series so they overlapped and then computed the correlation? This is the basic intuition of serial correlation: we apply a range of possible shifts and then compute the correlation between these shifted graphs. The one with the highest correlation would be the one with the best match.

The results for different shifts:

The best shift of “11 frames”:

In other words, for this person, giving a lot of reviews correlates well with receiving a lot of reviews roughly 11 months later. Of course, this doesn’t prove any sort of causation, but we can speculate that the increased amount of reviews this user gave helped boost the amount of reviews they got later!

From this analysis of an individual person, we were curious how this extended to the larger community to see if these same trends existed! The short answer, “eh, not really,” but it is interesting to see why this cool pattern might not generalize adequately.

1. Not all individuals get reviews and give reviews at the same scale

Some users just like to give reviews and some users just like to write reviews!

For instance, here is someone who gives a lot of reviews and didn’t get many themselves.

Here is someone who gave some reviews, but then focused on writing stories and received a lot more reviews instead!

For graphs like these, it is hard to apply the analysis we did earlier because the relationship is likely a lot weaker or there might just not be enough data points to capture it anyway.

We can summarize these examples for the overall population by looking at the ratio between reviews given to reviews received.

For this sample of 10k users, we see that those who primarily receive reviews will have a larger ratio (right), and users who primarily give reviews will have a smaller ratio (left). In more detail, a ratio of 1.0 means that they only received reviews. For example: 10 reviews received / (10 reviews received + 0 reviews given) = 1. For a ratio of 0.0, it means they received no reviews. For each ratio, the graph shows the total count of the 10k users who had that ratio.

To address issue (1), we reduced the scope down to users who had a relatively equal ratio of reviews given vs. reviews received.

Additionally, we pruned for users who had received at least 10 reviews. This way, we would have enough data points to use for our analysis. In fact, this is also why there is a large spike in the 0.5 ratio which consisted of a lot of users who had written one or two reviews and received an equal amount.

With this cleaned up, we also computed the lags on a finer scale–weeks–instead of months since we noticed that months were not granular enough. We computed the most common lags, and here is a plot of the results. This lag is the shift applied to received reviews, and the correlation is how well the two series correlated with each other after the shift. A correlation of 1 means that as one increased, the other increased as well, a correlation of -1 means that as one decreased, the other increased, and smaller values such as 0.8 mean that the correlation was positive, but less strong.

So the result here is both a little messier and structured than we had hoped from our hypothesis, but that’s part of the research process!

To elaborate, in the X dimension, the lag, there isn’t a particular range that was significantly denser than the rest. In fact, if we looked at the histogram, we see something like this:

So we lied a little, it looks like that last lag of +20 weeks looks really popular, but this is actually an artifact caused by the serial correlation process. If you recall this graph:

The red line is the chosen lag at the peak. In this case, the shifting actually peaked, but if we had truncated the graph at 5, it would have simply picked that highest shift.

Not convinced? Here’s the same analytics, but now we calculated up to a lag of 40.

Looks like the 20 bucket wasn’t particularly special after all.

So ignoring this last bucket (and the first bucket for a similar reason), we notice that our histogram matches this noisiness that we observed for the lags.

What does this mean? It suggests that there is no general pattern that can succinctly summarize the larger population, and that we are unable to conclude that there is a common average positive or negative lag relationship between the number of reviews someone has given and the number of reviews that they have received. Some authors sent more reviews after receiving more reviews (positive lags), some authors received more reviews after getting reviews (negative lags), and some authors did not exhibit much of a relationship either way (the first and last buckets which didn’t find a reasonable shift). Although these relationships do exist, the timing was not consistent overall so we can’t say anything about fanfiction.net authors in general.

So…

2. Looking across users, we do not see consistent behavior in a time-shifted relationship between a person’s received and given review count

Even when we look at the lags with the highest correlation (r > 0.7), we see that this even distribution of lags still holds.

In summary, this isn’t the dead end! (With research, it rarely is!) But it helps paint a better picture of the users in the community and why this approach may not be well suited to encapsulate it well. We see that the relationship between reviews received and given doesn’t follow a necessarily time-shifted relationship and that in fact, this shift can go either direction. Try taking a look at your own reviewing trends, and see where you would be located within these graphs! Are you someone who has a positive shift or a negative time shift… or no strong correlation at all?

In the meanwhile, we’re still exploring some other interesting approaches in reciprocity! Stay tuned :)

longlivefeedback

This was really cool! Seems like this data is just from fanfiction.net. Any expectation that behaviour might be different on ao3?

#fanfiction research #feedback #ffn

longlivefeedback reblogged

ao3commentoftheday

Things you can do if reading/writing fic isn’t happening right now but you still want to be engaging in/with fandom (an incomplete list):

go through your bookmarks and add the title of the fic to the comments section - that way if it’s ever deleted, you’ll know which fic it was
go through your bookmarks and add commentary or tags - keep in mind that bookmarks default to public, so make sure you tick off the private checkbox if you don’t want the author or anyone else to potentially see it
look up your fandom/ship/fave character on Fanlore. Get an account and add examples of fanart or fanfic to their page
create a page for a fandom or a ship or a character that doesn’t exist on Fanlore yet. You don’t have to build it out all by yourself, but if you start it then others might add on!
if you have the money to spare, consider commissioning a fan artist or fic writer
share fic recs on your blog
reblog fanart
use a free tool like Canva to create a moodboard or a banner
find a fanvid on youtube and give it a thumbs up and a comment
fill out your AO3 profile
build out your personal page on Fanlore
do a follow forever post or a follower appreciation post
send people ask memes or post them yourself
ask an author for permission to record one of their stories as a podfic - and if you can’t contact them directly, check their profile for a permission statement or look them up on the Fanworks Permission Statements List
Create and share a playlist for your fave episode/ship/fic/character
cook a meal inspired by your fave canon

And of course, if the items on this list are too much for you right now, then give yourself a hug and know that that’s okay. It’s a stressful time, and doing anything extra can be a daunting idea. Don’t pressure yourself into keeping busy because you think you need to be productive. Don’t feel guilty if you can’t manage to do anything extra.

This list is for people who need to keep busy and keep their minds occupied as a way to cope. If your way of coping is different, then do what works for you. ❤

#fandom #feedback #these are excellent suggestions

longlivefeedback reblogged

frenchibi

hazeldomain

If you can’t think of anything to say about a fic, writers also like to know:

- what time it is

- how long you’ve been reading

- how many chapters you’ve covered in the last 24 hours

- what you were late for because you were reading

- the woeful few hours you have left to sleep

- the emotional outbreaks you’re experiencing

- the inappropriate place you’re having said outbreak

- the general public’s reaction to your outbreak

- how much phone battery you have left

naraht

I’ve had the joy of quite a few of these comments! I love them!

sarking

#if my fic has in some way ruined your life i would be honoured to know about it (via @hoidn)

renee561

@sarahoftarth we’ve discussed

#feedback

longlivefeedback

Anonymous asked:

My latest fic got heaps of kudos and zero comments. I know there have been a lot of discussions here with excuses why readers don't comment, but I think the overarching factor should be that I get literally no benefit from posting stuff aside from feedback. Kudos doesn't cut it. Maybe in future I'll just write for myself and not spend the time and effort of posting it online. If they cbf leaving a measly couple of words then maybe they don't deserve fic in the first place.

Hi Anon, it’s too bad you feel that way. I would argue that kudos is also a form of feedback, but if written feedback is really what want, then perhaps you should reach out to beta readers who you can ask for more specific feedback from? It is your prerogative to post and share your work or not. Just remember which party you’re at and adjust your expectations appropriately.

~ Mod dragonling

#llf asks #kudos #the meaning of kudos #feedback on feedback #feedback

longlivefeedback

A Brief Guide to Supporting Authors

As a minor change of pace, I’d like to share some information about how to support fanfiction authors. Many readers don’t believe that their comments, kudos, or bookmarks are important to authors, but they are.

So, great! Now, let’s talk about the various ways to give feedback - including those other than comments and kudos - as well as the strengths and weaknesses of each method.

(Note: this guide is focused on ao3, but many parts apply to other platforms.)

Bookmarks

Summary

Bookmarks let you keep track of a story for reference, re-reading, or just because.
Public bookmarks are displayed on the story’s main bookmark count, and private bookmarks are not.
Authors can see the total number of bookmarks on a story, both private and public, from their stats page. They cannot see who has left a private bookmark, or when it was made.
Works can be sorted/filtered by the number of bookmarks.
Bookmarks can be tagged, annotated, etc.
The bookmark feature also as a “recommendation” option

Pros and cons

Pro: a bookmark serves as a more specific form of feedback than kudos, because it also means the reader likely wants to come back to the story later, and/or that they recommend this story to others.
Pro: if a bookmark is public, authors will probably see it (we check those!).
Pro: because notes/tags/annotations on bookmarks are optional and not intended for the author, readers feel less pressure to have a specific depth or format - anything goes.

Tips and tricks

Kudos

Summary

Kudos are the easiest way to let an author know you like their story.
You can only give kudos once per account, or once per IP address if you’re logged out. You cannot remove kudos.
If authors have enabled this notification, they will get one email per day that lists who has given kudos on which works. These emails are magic.
Kudos serve as a method to sort/filter fics, and readers often use the number of kudos or the kudos/hits ratio to determine whether or not to start a story.

Pros and cons

Pro: quick and easy
Pro: more kudos make other readers more likely to read the story
Pro: authors do tend to see kudos, whether via email, their stats page, or the story page itself.
Con: kudos are a one-time thing, so if you leave them early in a multi-chapter story, the author has no way of knowing if you’re still reading. If you wait until the fic is complete (since kudos can’t be removed), the author won’t know you’re reading/that you enjoy the story until after it’s complete - and a perceived lack of reader interest is a leading cause for abandoned WIPs.
Con: authors tend to interpret kudos less positively than readers. Therefore, if you leave kudos and mean “I love this story so much!!” the author doesn’t know that, because people leave kudos for many different reasons.
Con: they’re not specific. The impact of praise tends to increase with specificity. For example, “this fic is great” is nice to hear, but “your dialogue and characterizations in this story are great” is more specific and will generally inspire more emotion in the author. Because kudos are both the lowest effort and lowest specificity form of feedback, they don’t have the same impact as other methods.

Tips and tricks

If, for some reason, you don’t want to leave kudos on your username, you can quickly leave guest kudos without logging out by copying the address, opening a private browser session, and leaving kudos as a guest.
~~You can also do this if you want to leave multiple kudos~~

Subscriptions

authors can see how many users are subscribed to a story from their stats page
authors cannot see who is subscribed to their story
authors do not know if a subscriber is still reading, or if they are inactive/not checking updates
subscriptions to authors do not show up in the story subscriptions count
subscriptions can give an author a general indication of their audience for a multi-chapter story, but it’s almost exclusively a tool for readers rather than a feedback mechanism.

Comments

This has been covered in depth before - check the links for more info.

Recommending and Sharing Fics

Simply posting a link to a fic on tumblr is a great form of feedback, if the author sees it - it’s fine to leave a comment on the fic saying “I recommended this story!” with a link to the post, or to tag them on tumblr if you can find their account.
If an author shares their tumblr account, liking and reblogging their story-related posts is a great way to show support, because it means that you enjoy their story enough that you want other people to read it.
Authors on tumblr will often check both their notes and the tags people add, and tagging it with something along the lines of “I love this story” or “please read this” will make an author cry happy tears.
An easy way to create rec lists is to bookmark fics or use the mark for later feature as you read them, and once per week, make a list via tumblr post. Generally, you’ll want to list the title, author (tag them if you can find them on tumblr!), fandom, pairing(s), and character(s). A brief description is nice but not necessary; if you want to add more but you’re not sure what, simply copy-paste the author’s summary from ao3. Then, if you haven’t tagged the author, leave a comment on the story with a link to your rec list.
I don’t actually have words to describe how amazing it is to find that someone has recced my fics, but wow. I have literally cried.

Misc.

if you can find an author on tumblr, feel free to tag them in posts (for example, “this photo makes me think of your story, @author!”) or send asks about their fics.
If you’ve written or drawn something inspired by their stories, let them know! Don’t worry about whether it’s “good enough,” because I promise they will love and appreciate it (and you!).
If you’ve made playlists, moodboards, metas, etc, also let them know!
If you see someone else recommending or mentioning their fic, tag the author - they likely haven’t seen it. I’ve only found out about several things like this after a friend saw the post and sent it to me.
If you see someone posting negatively about their fic, don’t let the author know - it’s stressful, upsetting, and they can’t do anything about it.

This guide is not exhaustive, but I hope it’s given readers a bit more information regarding how authors receive and interpret feedback!

- Mod Rose

#longlivefeedback #feedback #ao3 #bookmarks #kudos #commenting