Same! If Finn & Rey lived in the Republic era I can definitely see Finn being Obi-Wan’s apprentice and Rey being Yoda’s–or, for extra complication, Dooku’s.

Honestly I’d love it if Rey developed her own style based on how she fought in Force Awakens like the saber was a staff, using direct forward thrusts rather than the usual slashing attacks.

Form VII Juyo incorporated thrusts and jabs. Maul, a master of the form, might be a good model as a staff-saber user. Mace Windu created the Vaapad variant of Juyo with Sora Bulq, so that might be another reference.

Same! If Finn & Rey lived in the Republic era I can definitely see Finn being Obi-Wan’s apprentice and Rey being Yoda’s–or, for extra complication, Dooku’s.

I’d actually like to see Finn as Mace Windu’s apprentice tho

Damn, what if he went with Mace to neutralize Palpatine and faced down Anakin?

how can anyone seriously think the prequels are worse than tlj? the prequels clearly suffered from poor direction of otherwise talented actors and bad dialogue, but tlj suffers from bad dialogue, bad characterization, AND unbelievably bad story telling which i’d argue is infinitely worse than even the most questionable moments or greatest sins of the prequels.

even if hayden christiansen’s performance as anakin left a lot to be desired thanks to george’s shitty dialogue and directing, we could understand why anakin did things and why his character developed the way it did (ex. his murder of his mother by the tusken raiders). the prequels looked and felt like star wars bc they were george’s movies, the jedi presence/lore in them was fascinating, the music was incredible, the new planets and aliens fit and were interesting, the balance between new and old was perfect, and the fight between qui-gon, obi-wan, and darth maul at the end of episode 1 is one of the best and most intense scenes in the franchise. even episode 2, up until this moment seen as the longest and most pointless star wars film, becomes desirable and exciting after having to sit through two and half hours of tlj’s pointless, dragging plot about LITERALLY (1) event that changes next to nothing about the overarching plot of the sequel films while simultaneously destroying the characterizations of rey, finn, and poe that were established in tfa.

the prequels are far from perfect and there’s plenty that can be said about them re: race and gender. but i never in my life want to hear a star wars fanboy complain about jar jar after we had to watch fucking bb8 pilot a walker bc rian johnson couldn’t write his way out of his own shitty plot.

tlj is far and away the worst star wars movie of all time and i’ll fight anybody who tries to negatively compare it to phantom menace. even mark hamill hates this movie. what more do yall need to know???

One thing the Prequels did and where tlj utterly failed is that they do a ton of world building. For all their flaws they were really good at that and oddly enough it was the foundation for the majority of critique levied against them, but also their whole purpose. They add a ton of political and social background to the Star Wars universe so that we now know why the Original Trilogy happens and why it happens the way it does.

Now TFA didn’t do a whole lot of world building either, but that’s acceptable because it was the first movie and its purpose more than anything is to get people engaged in the story. And we do get what we need to understand it, even if people are surly about the lack of details (I’m pissy too for the record). But this was there TLJ should have picked up and instead of spending so much time riding Kylo Ren’s dick had added to the lore. How did the First Order arise and why? How and why did the Republic ignore them until now? What the hell is going on the Snoke and the Knights of Ren and how did Kylo even decide to join Snoke. Before anyone drags out the lightsaber in the hut scene for the latter, the movie made it pretty clear that Kylo had already turned by then, he was just revealed before he was ready to reveal himself, but the movie tells us nothing of why or how that happened.

Heck how did Leia go about building the Resistance, with a fleet like that she should have had some freinds but we never hear about that or well, anything.

Of course TLJ didn’t need answer every question we still have one more movie to go, but it didn’t answer a single one. Even Rey’s parentage is still an open question, it couldn’t even manage that much.

At the end of the day TLJ is a meaningless middle part that adds absolutely nothing to the story that wasn’t already there, it’s badly written with inconsistent characterization and a shit ton of racism and misogyny. All it managed was to kill off Snoke and Luke and considering how really underwhelming those two scenes were that could have happened off screen or in the EU and we would be the same place. My guess is that when we have the full “trilogy” you can remove TLJ completely and lose absolutely nothing important in understanding the story, where with the Prequels for all their flaws are pretty crucial to understanding the Star Wars universe.

Same! If Finn & Rey lived in the Republic era I can definitely see Finn being Obi-Wan’s apprentice and Rey being Yoda’s--or, for extra complication, Dooku’s.

If you think a rich white man from a famous family who willingly fought his way to the top of a fascist, enslaving organization should be redeemed & live happily ever after while ignoring the literal legions of Stormtroopers kidnapped and enslaved by the organization he leads, your so-called redemption starts looking a lot more like elitism and infinite get-out-of-jail-free cards for privileged men than anything to do with actual growth or change.

Aye. There’s proper redemption and bad redemption. Good redemption example.

Boromir. Aye he was often thinking he knew best, and was the easiest for the ring to corrupt. He literally tried to take the ring from Frodo. Still, I understand where he was coming from. He had a horrible father he wanted to do good by, and, he had good intentions.

Not only that, when he did try to take the ring from Frodo and insulted him, after that? Like RIGHT AFTER? You could see clearly (in part from the brilliant acting from Sean Bean) that he was so sorry, he regretted it so terribly. Not because he was caught, or because he was in danger, none of that, but because he simply knew he did something awful, and felt terrible about it and immediately called out to Frodo he was sorry.

And when the battle came? He did not hesitate to give his life to protect others, not for a second. And even as he died, and right when Aragorn came to him? “They took the little ones!” “Frodo, where is Frodo?”

He wasn’t concerned about himself, he was worried about those most in need of help. Boromir, that guy earned his redemption. Kylo Ren?

He ain’t earned no redemption.

Your comment reminds me that the best redemption arcs are ones where the character stays consistent and the very aspects of them that led to their doing wrong are the ones that bring them around.

Boromir fell briefly for the temptation of the Ring precisely because his love of his family and homeland, and his pride in himself as a hero and warrior, opened him up to the lure of power. Those same qualities led him to sacrifice his life once he realized--almost immediately--that wielding the Enemy's power was only playing into his hands. He died a hero and warrior as he lived, giving his life for his friends and for Gondor.

The most prominent example of "redemption" in this franchise, Darth Vader? His story through SIX MOVIES (even when we--and even Lucas--didn't know it) was about family, fearing losing them, actually losing them, and regaining one of them. The despair of losing his mother opened him up to the terror of losing Padmé, and he fell to Palpatine's temptation. Once he had burned every possible bridge Palpatine was the only one he thought he could turn to. When he realized Luke was his son his yearning for a connection expressed itself in violent control tactics, which Luke rejected in a spectacular fashion. Afterward you can see Vader start to question himself and his methods when he doesn't choke his subordinate at the end of ESB, before he finally realizes he can have a connection with his son only by joining him. The same yearning that propelled him to evil, his love of family, led to his doing one good thing before he croaked as all fascist mass murderers deserve to.

Zuko, often cited as the gold standard of redemption arcs and insultingly compared to Ben Solo (Zuko honey I'm so sorry), was struggling to recover from abuse for years. He thought he could get his honor back by regaining his father's love, only to realize once he was in his father's good graces again that a) there was no honor in his country's war and planned genocide and b) Ozai had never loved him and never would. His motivation to heal stayed constant, he just realized the true path to healing lay in a different path.

Ben? His motivation is not heroism, family or recovery. He is not standing against evil, he IS the evil others stand against. He has a loving family whom he killed and tried to kill. He could give less of a shit about his abuser, Snoke. His one consistent motivation is power, and keeping this motivation is not compatible with redemption. To return to LotR, it would be as though Sauron or Gollum became "good" because they could keep the Ring and use it for good purposes. It destroys all dramatic tension and undercuts the central conflict. If the character's motivation were to change all of a sudden, on the other hand, like if he suddenly decided his family or Rey were more important to him than power after he sacrificed and used them for power, it would be an abrupt turnaround in the character and a thoroughly unsatisfying, contrived kumbaya. So no, barring some late-stage reveal there is no path to a satisfying redemption that keeps the premise and character consistent.

Main Male + Female Protagonists of the Skywalker Saga by Era

“There's a ton of sequel fans who only like the sequels, and they're obsessed with them as much as the average Star Wars fan enjoys all three trilogies combined”

@rktho-writes to each their own of course, but.... I’m like... how. Like I’m a sequels fan myself but there just isn’t a whole lot there unless you delve deep into the extended materials in connection with the earlier history. The sequels weren’t meant to stand on their own and indeed don’t have enough to stand on their own IMO.

“lol, I started with the Prequels, so for me everything starts there. As a kid, I didn't like the OT. It was ugly and boring and it didn't connect well with the Prequels. It wasn't until the TFA renewed my love SW that I gave the OT another chance. It's still not my favorite trilogy but I appreciate it a lot more.”

@princessmissandei Hey, valid! XD I’m just so used to the prequels getting hate, but it has some solid worldbuilding behind it (are u listening Disney) and I’m glad to see it be appreciated more these days. And I certainly would not argue the OT are cinematic masterpieces either, it’s mostly the world and characters that it created that generates excitement.

Why Kylo Ren cannot be redeemed.

Kylo being redeemed would be awful storytelling and would be backtracking the entire point of his role in the trilogy. 

Keep reading

A lot of good points here, although I don’t agree with all of it (more on that later). The most central and potent point in that Kylo Ren's redemption brings no narrative gain to the ST’s actual main characters, Rey and Finn.

do you ever just get frustrated bc you KNOW finn skywalker would be SO GOOD

The parallels between Finn and Anakin are not remotely subtle. They were both enslaved from a young age, and it’s canon that Hux Senior based the child-stealing aspect of the FO’s Stormtrooper program on the Jedi. Finn and Anakin are both “Jedi” who left, only in opposite directions.

Also like... loves a brave Rebel woman, hates sand? Was driven by fear for the woman he loves? His first question after rising from a life-threatening injury was “Where is [her name]?” Can you even tell which character I’m talking about anymore??

@lj-writes

After the recent article about Star Wars trending on Google, I thought it might be fun to take a closer look at how various Star Wars characters are trending on Google, both old and new. The results may make some … Continue reading →

This link was submitted to me, and tbh it kind of hurts to read about how Finn is so much less popular even than other ST characters, who are generally not as popular as PT characters. What hits me particularly hard is that John Boyega is virtually nonexistent in search trends compared to his ST co-stars despite having such a prominent role in the movies. Are we really going to keep pretending that people sleeping on Finn and John has to do with anything but antiblack racism, when a drop-dead gorgeous actor on this level of talent and hustle is a lead in a worldwide megafranchise and is virtually ignored?

🌠 Star Wars Villains

Eleven characters in the nine Star Wars Saga movies have said the phrase “May the Force Be With You”:

Chronologically, the first was Qui-Gon Jinn, but the first to use the exact phrase in a Star Wars movie was General Dadonna to the Rebel troops before The Battle of Yavin. Han Solo also said it before the battle (even though he didn’t believe in The Force at the Time).

The phrase was said by Obi-Wan Kenobi in the prequels (though not in A New Hope, where his Force Ghost told Luke variations of it like “The Force will be with you, always.”

Luke said it to Lando and Chewbacca in Empire Strikes Back, and Leia said it – but not until The Force Awakens, to Rey.

Mace Windu, Yoda and Anakin each say it in the Prequel Trilogy multiple times.

Vice Admiral Holdo says it, and its variation “May the Force Be With Us,” in TLJ.

The only next gen character to say it so far in the sequels is Finn. He says it to Rose as a kind of “bye now,” which is a contrast to the more serious/ominous usage in the OT and ST (usually before or during a battle or journey as a sort of “God protect you”). But looking back at the PT, the the Jedi themselves used the phrase as a valediction, along with a nod, similar to Finn’s usage. (I don’t ascribe much to that fwiw – the writing for Finn in TLJ was unfortunately not that deep – but it’s something that could be explored by better writers.)

Also worth noting, Admiral Ackbar, who was so unceremoniously blown up in TLJ, was also one of the few to use a variation of the phrase (“May The Force be with us”) in Return of the Jedi.

May the Fourth Be with you! (Now get out.)

Finn generally has an irreverent, familiar approach to the Force that I find really interesting. There’s that dismissive use of the phrase that was unwittingly close to the original use by the Jedi, and who can forget the ”We’ll use the Force!” moment? He almost uses the Force as a punchline and yet it comes through for him every time. It’s quite unlike Rey’s fearful and respectful approach to the Force, more intimate and more playful, and why I think they embody opposing yet complementary views of the Force.

A while ago, I made a post about Padme’s liberty line, and at the end—I tied it to Padme being called the “mother of the rebellion”.  I briefly discussed how that is erasure, especially looking at characters like Bail, Breha, Steela, Saw, the Clones, Ashoka and even Numa. So this meta is going to discuss how it is problematic to credit the rebellion to Padme and how such a thing can also be racist.

This is a Padme critical meta, and if that isn’t something that interests you then I’d ask you not to read below.

Keep reading

Bail Organa also was the only one brave enough to go to the burning Jedi Temple to try to help, and then he was the one who tried to call together displaced Jedi in order to shelter and harbor them, as well.  And that’s definitely not all he did.

Like– he was neck deep in humanitarian efforts from the beginning and translated that to covert rebellion later.  Downplaying his contributions to both the Rebellion and Leia’s upbringing is just plain straight-up bull.

I think, going back to his introduction in the PT, there was such a reaction that Mace was a novelty. Like he was never truly in-universe for some white viewers who could only see the sterotypical characters he played in Quenten Tarantino movies, even though, obviously, Mace is far from that. Same thing happened to Billy Dee Williams – most of his fan content was Colt 45 memes, before memes were even a thing. The Lando character was not just the Colt 45 guy in a cape, but that perception was so strong that he’s become more like that in canon (The Solo Movie is guilty of it, unfortunately).

But yeah. Mace is far more complex than he’s given credit for.

Boba Fett headcanons for y’all:

- he’s nearsighted. Wears contacts for the most part, but his helmet can also be adjusted to help him see better if he doesn’t have them.

- he has adhd. Takes his medicine for it faithfully, doesn’t miss a single dose, even if a med droid has to inject it while he’s in a bacta tank.

- he collected holo action figures. Mostly of bounty hunters like his father. Sometimes of smugglers and pirates, when those got made or Jango had them custom made for him.

- he can’t be around anything purple after the first battle of Geonosis. Or even go anywhere near Geonosis itself.

- he hates the Jedi for Jango’s death, obviously. Windu, Kenobi and even A. Skywalker.

- while in prison though, he learned to hate the Sith and Viceroy Gunray for their role in Jango’s death. The blame wasn’t entirely on the Jedi, after all.

- in time he realizes that Jango also shares the blame. Or maybe he always knew but couldn’t admit it to himself until well into his twenties.