*annoying nerd voice* i think one of the problems with atla fanfic and also part of what inflames fandom sentiment against aang is people’s refusal to or inability to engage the spiritual dimensions of the avatarverse. people have all these deep insights into various characters and a great handle on relationship dynamics but they ignore the spiritual elements of the universe or downplay them to an unrealistic extreme. it’s why so many people miss the importance of aang’s scenes in “the phoenix king” as he sits apart from his friends who are all urging him to take ozai out. aang points out that he can’t just kill people he disapproves of, inferring that as avatar his duty is to something greater than political triumphs and the will of the different nations, and that none of them can grasp the scope of that responsibility. but so much of the fandom dismisses aang’s arguments because they’re deeply empathetic with the other characters to the point where they see the avatar as existing to help them, rather than them helping the avatar so he can help everyone - which is what aang does by disarming ozai and letting the fire nation (led by zuko) to decide its own fate. within the context of the avatarverse, this is precisely why the avatar exists - to create balance so that people can make their own choices free from tryanny or the threat of obliteration. aang killing ozai would have had terrible political as well as spiritual consequences, because it would’ve dislodged aang as a peacekeeper and made him a weapon that people close to him can deploy. it would’ve resulted in yet another supremely unbalanced outcome. and as a sidenote, people love to cite kyoshi as an avatar who did what they perceive aang being too weak to, but she didn’t actually strike the killing blow against chin. in fact her first move was divestment - using her mighty avatar powers to separate kyoshi island from the mainland so chin couldn’t invade it. in the avatarverse, the avatar has to always see the bigger picture, spiritually speaking. that so many fans remain infuriated by the story decision to have aang end the war by stripping ozai of bending is exactly why it shouldn’t have happened any other way. tldr: a lot of y’all miss the point cuz of petty fandom wars.
I know I’m already a John Boyega fan but I’ve never hesitated to say “hmmm no he’s wrong for this”. That being said.....I just think it’s funny how a white woman instigated a whoooole dragfest of him last night because she read one of his answers regarding online bullying as “shade” toward Kelly Marie Tran just because the INTERVIEWER mentioned her when, knowing how much he stood up for her and had said how much he loves and respects her previously and the fact that he ended the answer with ‘that’s my view on it’, one could easily extrapolate that he was speaking solely about himself and HIS experiences with anti-Blackness. I ALSO think the only reason people started taking it in bad faith right away, instead of even just saying “he probably just didn’t word this right” was because they had ALREADY spent two days “dragging” him for not rocking with The Last Jedi and were looking for more serious things to call him to the mat for. I saw people not hesitating to call him uppity, cocky, and saying he should never work again. And now that he’s been made to apologize, people are STILL not going to believe him, despite the fact that these non-Black people never even dragged Daisy Ridley, who literally dismissed her class and white privilege like an ass, and those who did stopped talking about it heavily after a day. And I’m not even in this goddamn fandom.
I just think that’s funny....
And the woman who did it has done something similar before and is a Reylo who thinks she oppressed. Read this thread by someone in the fandom who literally makes the same points I do.
Ugh, when has my spirit of discernment been wrong? I see right through people’s bullshit. My power.
“To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good.”
— Alexander Solzhenitsyn
if theres no found family what is the God Damn Fucking Point
“men aren’t allowed to express their emotions” is an extremely imprecise statement.
men aren’t allowed by society (well, really other men, specifically) to feel sadness, specifically, but other than that they’re allowed the full emotional range- especially anger, which they are not only allowed but encouraged to feel (unlike women- anger is unladylike, remember? people always forget this in their discussions of all the emotions women are supposedly allowed to feel) and especially men are encourage to turn their sadness into anger and then turn their anger into violence toward women toward their own selfish benefit.
now, it is true that it’s a small step forward for men to be ~allowed to cry~, and therefore perhaps less likely to turn that sadness into anger into abuse, but a man who goes from beating his girlfriend, to crying to guilt trip and manipulate her, has only made a small baby step of progress. yeah, it’s good that he’s no longer shattering her jaw or screaming at her, but if he’s still using his emotions as a weapon to manipulate her, that’s still Not Great.
yes, teach boys/men that it’s okay to cry, but more importantly, teach them not to selfishly wield their emotions as a weapon against women.
I mean yes its obvious that disney didnt become woke overnight and casted a black actress as ariel for little mermaid out of sheer goodness of their heart or to spite racist people and yeah i understand that some leftists might want to point this out in case some people start hailing Disney as a woke corporations but im also highly suspicious at all those posts made by white leftists urging or implying people to boycott/not watch this live action little mermaid bc then they’d be “falling right into the corporation’s plans” and “giving corporations new methods to attract attention and money from marginalized people” bc like, this type of shit legit only happens when a black woman or any other POC is casted as a main role or in place of a white person lol. Hell, ive even seen posts making fun of people celebrating a black woman being casted for ariel and calling them “dumb” for “falling for disney’s scheme” and its inchresting how most of them are coming from white leftists
I remember when beyonce was headlining coachella and there were loads of posts urging people to boycott it bc of the homophobic owners but that same enthusiasm towards its boycott was lacking this year when ariana grande and tame impala was headlining coachella. Most people were up for a third version of spiderman movies till zendaya was casted as MJ and suddenly everyone was talking about how unnecessary three versions of spiderman movies were. And there are more examples like this.
Also so many of those posts talking about how casting of black ariel is a marketing strategy are bordering on implying that halle isnt as talented to play the role as the other white actress choices were and was casted just bc of “woke points” which is exactly what racists and right wingers are saying about this so id advice yall to be vary of posts like those esp if they are coming from white leftists. White leftists using other social justice concepts to mask and propagate their racism isnt a new thing in leftist circles.
If you think a white actor earned their role but a black actor must have “taken it” from a more deserving (white) actor, or must have been “given it” to meet some imaginary quota, then you’re racist.
If you think white people earned their positions through merit but black people must have “taken” or “been given” it because they couldn’t possibly have earned their position through merit too, then you’re racist.
You know what I think is fascinating:
There are people who tend to criticize the Star Wars franchise on a whole, as being very black and white. But I think the current Star Wars movies have done something really interesting with that:
We see a man, raised from infancy as a Stormtrooper, brainwashed and with no other moral compass, who is ordered to take part in a massacre, but chooses not to. Later, he seizes the opportunity to rescue a tortured prisoner and escape with him.
We see a scientist ordered to build a death weapon, still manage to leak out information to the people who can stop it, and build in weaknesses that can be exploited.
We see a career Imperial choose to defect rather than continue to work for a corrupt regime.
The new movies have given us a number of stories about people who on the wrong side, by choice or by force, but still choose to do what’s right in the end.
And that’s why I get so frustrated by fans who insist that Kylo Ren MUST have a redemption arc, because Star Wars is “about redemption.”
Because they’re right and they’re wrong. Star Wars is about CHOICE. It’s about people who choose to do the right thing, even when it’s hard, even when it’s painful, and even when they might have started on the wrong side. It’s about abandoning the darkness, and choosing light..
Vader didn’t have a “redemption arc.” He had a moment of choice, and despite all of his past evil, when it came down to it, he chose to save his son.
Kylo Ren chose to leave the Light. He chose to betray Luke. He chose to join the First Order. He chose to massacre villagers. He chose to torture helpless prisoners. He chose to aid in a genocide. And when face to face with the same choice that saved Vader, he chose to murder his father.
We do not need this mass murdering patricidal monster to represent the Star Wars theme of choosing light over darkness. We have Finn, we have Galen Erso, we have Bodhi Rook.
That’s where you’ll find themes of the Star Wars Universe alive and well. Not Kylo Ren.
not to get ‘discourse-y’ but the “fiction doesn’t affect reality” crowd must be in contending for the dumbest liberals on this site… anyone who has a literature or writing degree & paid attention in class (or honestly, anyone who paid attention in high school) can tell you that literature has been used to control & to oppress or to protest for centuries… have they not read about propaganda’s role in maintaining dictatorships? narrative of a life of frederick douglass? shakespeare? elie wiesel? how authors write through trauma? religious texts? it’s abundantly clear that these people don’t read…
& let me clarify something: my intention w/ this post isn’t to say “you can’t write x, because x is problematic” or say “writing x makes people do x” because the issue has far more nuance than that. my intention with this post is to say our fictions & our realities are inherently connected, & it is your responsibility the instant you pick up a pen, open a laptop— it is your responsibility as a storyteller, as a writer— to be conscious of what you put out in the world. how will it affect people? why are you writing this story? why do you want people to read it? why do you want to tell it this way? especially when it comes to depiction of a marginalized group of people, especially when it comes to stories that depict atrocities.
ask yourself those questions. your writing will be better for it.
Jemel Roberson was the “good guy with a gun” they keep telling us are the best defense against mass shootings, and now he’s dead because he had a legal, warranted gun in his hand.
NRA and Trump have not commented. Trump is busy trying to make Macron look bad on Twitter after he said nationalism is the opposite of patriotism (complete with, no shit, a “Make France Great Again” tweet).
Not to mention, this bar shooting at a predominantly Black bar was barely news until social media jumped on it. Granted, it doesn’t qualify as a mass shooting as there was just one fatality – Jemel.
The silence from pro-gun advocates only reinforces what we already know: The 2nd Amendment only applies to white people.
I made a choice.
i see what you mean, and i think it’s not something that bothers me because how much of it was rey’s screentime for her OWN character in comparison? her time doubled because her storyline mingled with that of another lead (kylo), and i think the time each character had on their own would be either comparable or less than finn’s. i think finn’s screentime will balloon again because we know he has stuff with rey (from daisy) and we’ve seen that he has stuff with poe.
i ran out of space in the last anon but yeah, my point basically is that finn had a lot of screentime in [tfa] because he was with another lead (rey), rian alienated him in tlj so he had less screentime but the screentime was all about his character for better or for worse, and in 9 we’ll see him go back to tfa amounts if not more.
That’s something else that bothers me about TLJ, though, because Finn is at least as much Kylo Ren’s foil as Rey is and should have been more involved in the plot with KR. There was nothing inevitable about Finn getting less time with other leads and less screen time in addition to the crappy and pointless retread of his arc from the prior movie.
RJ himself said he cut a lot of Finn’s scenes because they were more plotty and therefore disposable, and again, there was nothing about Finn’s character or the story that dictated that Finn get the plotty and less-important scenes that subsequently ended up on the cutting room floor.
This anon is quite simply writing nonsense. Rey’s screentime did not double. Rey’s screentime got LESS, significantly, compared to TFA, and Finn’s screentime was cut in half compared to his screentime in TFA. Rey lost approx. 13 minutes, Finn lost almost 20 minutes. Just in case: Rey, IN TFA, was with the OTHER LEAD, WHO WAS FINN!. Kylo Ren’s screentime didn’t even get significantly bigger compared to TFA but this time it was used to let him ramble his BS, when during most of TFA he was a horror in a mask. Rey’s or Finn’s screentime should not depend on who they are with, they are lead characters whose screentime should be planned in advance and it should be essential that their screentime is important and that the story revolves around them! Then doing what RJ did to Finn would be IMPOSSIBLE! I mean I could also argue Rey’s screentime just exists so that we can hear Kylo whine and Luke being an ass bc nothing much else fucking happens. Finn’s screentime wasn’t connected to RJ’s only real idea for TLJ, so it could just be cut. Also please tell me how space horses and naked butt aliens and boring shit people went to the LOO for bc they couldn’t take it anymore was all about Finn. He learned NOTHING he didn’t already know in TFA! This nonsense was straight up filler material! and RJ CUT scenes that could’ve deepened his character development and story bc he somehow believed they didn’t matter!!!!!! So again: Finn’s screentime does not depend on who he is with. His screentime should stand on its OWN bc he is IMPORTANT. Fucking hell, I can’t handle this BULLSHIT
It’s okay to still believe in Force User Finn and Rey Skywalker
People never had a problem with Leia being a Skywalker because she wasn’t the lead, she didn’t recognize her as one, and she never held a lightsaber in the movies. That’s not case with Rey.
People never had a problem when Mace Windu being a black Jedi because he was a supporting character, he was in the background, and he wasn’t one of the new faces of Star Wars.
Finn being a force user wasn’t some affirmative action, social justice warrior, escapist crack Theory. It was literally just watching Finn go through the traditional hero’s journey, only with a modern theme and TFA doesn’t imply it, doesn’t hint at it, but it freaking screams in your ear while dangling Finn holding a lightsaber that this dude is a force user. Being a force user doesn’t erase his 20 years of enslavement as a forced Stormtrooper or his deflection. The Force doesn’t have a color or gender it belongs to everyone, no matter what Karen or Brett say. The Force has been used by Lazy muppet people and literal fascist murders, nothing is exclusive about the force. It wouldn’t ruin Finn’s character at all and the arguments against it are bias.
Rey being a Skywalker wasn’t about some blood purity, keeping it all traditional, Mary Sue self insert bs. It’s literally just drawing the logical conclusion as to why this random woman keeps getting shoved into the middle of this one family and keeps being involved with mysteriously vague scenes that connect her mysterious part further to this family‘s past. The Skywalkers are literally born from slaves and farmers, and this powerful legacy stuff is made up bulk shit. The Skywalkers are literally only know for being a slaves, farmers, hermits, and a fascist. Rey being a Skywalker isn’t a gift or a curse, it’s just giving her a family that loves her but she was taken away from.
And nobody is saying these things have to happen, but the general argument everyone uses is just that they don’t like it, so not only shouldn’t it not happen, but it shouldn’t be brought up, regardless of heavy foreshadowing.
ReySky and ForceFinn isn’t a fetish kink like Reylow, it’s not a Doomrey stupid ass theory cause of a greeting, and it’s not those Snoke is Mace Windu dank theories that have no validation.
Both beliefs of ForceFinn and ReySky were grounded in a positive mind set and were equally progressive. Did some bad apples take it too far? Yes, but every part of the SW fandom has a bad apple.
Some people would just like to think TFA wasn’t a giant red hearing that meant nothing at all but to be Johnson’s subversion target. We already had character arcs repeated and now people want to make the movie completely pointless to pay attention to? If I wanted to watch confusing garbage, I’d watch Looper or Age of Ultron.
Why have so many scenes that mean nothing to the film or the future of the movies? With how much was really riding on TFA, am I really supposed to believe JJ just chose his two leads to entire character arcs didn’t mention?
Why is Maz asking about Rey, when Finn is the ex Stormtrooper acting suspicious? It’s scenes like this that ignore Finn to focus on Rey’s no last name given mysterious past that make me question why even bother with so much secrecy?
Why do Snoke and Kylo feel an Awakening in the force if only Fin has been the one showing all the signs, and Rey is just living her normal life? It’s scenes like this that focus on Finn’s connection to the force over Rey’s that make me question why even put all that in there in there?
I’m tired of people ignoring Finn and making him out to be nothing, even though TFA screams that he is something. It’s just about letting him have an ability he was hinted to have since TFA.
I’m tired of peoole saying Rey being related to Luke is some terrible thing. It’s just about giving Rey a family she was hinted to have since TFA.
If people can’t understand how Finn not being Force sensitive undercuts them, if people don’t understand how Rey not being a Skywalker undercuts, then that’s their problem.
Do they have to be those things? No. But many people would like to know that TFA wasn’t a complete lack of time.
These situations remind of the current Finnrey situation.
It’s like if something looks different to how people want it, Black Protagonist Jedi, Woman protagonist Skywalker, interracial relationship between the leads, the public and media will do whatever it takes to erase it and underplay it, but also make everyone turn against because of bad examples that don’t represent something that could have, and very well might still be, something incredibly progressive and positive.
Maybe it’s because I don’t think finnrey or finnpoe gives Finn the credit he deserves as an equal partner but why do people act like it’ll be a disaster if he doesn’t get with Rey? If she picks Poe over him it’s her loss. Neither of them really deserve him anyway imo and it would be cool to see him establish himself on a planet he chooses and being with someone who loves him as much as he loves them. Rey ain’t the only girl in the universe.
Idk how to explain to you that we’re not talking about real people and who is gaining or losing from a relationship, and that we’re talking about what makes a good story involving buildup and payoff.
^^^^
Freedom of speech is always a thing, but if you’re writing racist trash, it’s other people’s right to call your racist ass behavior.
Don’t like it? Then don’t be a racist.
@lj-writes a little thing for your anon and their racist friend.
Like R*ylos are like “Why do you spend so much time hating a ship” yet they dedicate so much time and energy to slandering Finn who has done literally nothing to warrant any slander.
Right there ^
One of the reasons the idea of “TLJ is good because it was subversive” bothers me is because the prequels were more subversive and that doesn’t give them a free pass for their racism and moments of bad writing in media discussion.
Japanese stereotypes used in Neimodians, cultural dressing slapped across Naboo, and Watto all deserve to be criticized, and they are. But a lot of “liberal” fans of TLJ will explain away any claims of racism as reaching and any claims of bad writing as whiny fanboys. Yet for every point of subversion that TLJ tries, the prequels do it better.
TLJ: Luke throws away the lightsaber when we expect him to do something proactive. Prequels: Supposedly peaceful Jedi are violent in the first scene.
TLJ: OT Sad Yoda became carefree after death. Prequels: OT Pacifist Yoda wasn’t always a pacifist. (I’ve seen so many people complain that Yoda is a different character in AoTC, ignoring that he becomes the hideaway after RoTS.)
TLJ: Rey’s parents are nobodies. Prequels: The origins of fan favorite Obi-Wan Kenobi don’t bother with his parentage, as it’s unimportant.
TLJ: Luke was willing to kill his nephew to prevent a massacre. Prequels: The Republic, expected to be good compared to the Empire, was willing to utilize a slave army to win a war.
TLJ: You can’t trust criminals and terrorists after all, but military secrets are good. Prequels: The Jedi weren’t guardians of peace, but mongers of war.
Subversion doesn’t equal quality, and weak subversions aren’t even worth getting excited about. (Moth)