Aremo Shitai Koremo Shitai Onna no Ko ni Mietatte

Pretrans women are the trans women of trans women

I think I get what you are poking at but I would love for you to elaborate?

so yeah. pretrans women are the trans women of trans women

Late night thought but I think the thing that really ties it together for me on transandrophobia/anti transmasculinity stuff is how quickly people will turn on a transfem if they side with transmascs. Like I’ve seen people in real time try to find any way to take a transfems ‘status’ as transfem away when they say they agree with us, saying that they’re not “transfem enough”, accusing them of secretly being transmasc, trying to find any past take that would invalidate them, or just flat out say they’re lying about being transfem. Like these people immediately fall back on transmisogyny if a transfem sides with us, despite accusing us of being the transmisogynistic ones, which kinda comes back to my assumption that these people just want to silence any trans people that don’t agree with them

I've had this in my drafts in awhile but I think now is the time to reblog it because of this recent addition to my pinned wall of things transandrophobes say about me:

Like, look at that lmao. She hates to do it, but alas, I'm simply so awful she has no choice.

And this isn't about revoking my transfemininity card, but it sure did make me stare at my screen in genuine shock, because holy shit I didn't expect it:

The full line is actually "pickme begging to be beaten to death with hammers" and like. Wowwie zowwie! That's kinna fucked up! That's so fucking weird and gross! They are literally fantasizing about me being hate crimed because it would validate their "non-transfems will always betray you" nonsense.

thinking about how the whole "trans men literally can't experience misogyny bc men can't experience misogyny" thing has done fucking catastrophic harm to feminism as a movement in recent years

like not only does it harm trans men & a lot of other transmascs by just outright denying a major form of oppression we experience and framing us as somehow on equal footing to cis men socio-politically- silencing us on multiple levels and making it genuinely impossible to get certain issues addressed- but I quite literally mean it does a fucking wild amount of damage to feminist theory and the movement as a whole, too.

the whole idea behind it is to basically decouple oppression from lived experiences, isolate individual forms of oppression, and instead ascribe all oppression to stratified individual identities. it's like, advanced victim blaming + systemic gaslighting + systemic isolation.

I have seen self-described feminists enact the most basic, lame-ass, run-of-the-mill misogyny against trans men/transmascs and just, like, deny it could possibly be misogyny because the target isn't a woman. shit Buzzfeed was putting out milquetoast articles about in 2014.

the effect of this is that people just stop considering certain aspects of misogyny to be part of the system of misogyny. if it's not misogyny when it's not done to a woman, issues like bodyshaming and rape culture- widely understood to be society-wide cultural and systemic problems that needed to be fought in order to make progress for feminism ten years ago- are whittled down into just a couple of flavors of "being mean to women".

which means feminism ceases to be a movement about addressing society-wide cultural and systemic problems that hinge on patriarchal views of women, and impact society as a whole... and becomes instead a movement about Not Being Mean To Women.

I'm just going to grab this addition from another thread because it's also super important.

Look I'll be real as an Old Dude who is pretty repelled by the turns feminism and discussions of queerness and gender have taken over the last 20 years: a lot of this is driven by the idea that we have some immutable Gender Essence which either corresponds to our body or doesn't and may or may not be correctly guessed at birth by the people around us. Which is like... Gender essentialism, but for the soul or some weird shit, whereby I have Always Been A Man even for the more than two decades that I did not know trans men existed (don't grow up in small towns in the 1980s, y'all) and even for the couple of decades after that when I assumed that of course I hated my body, all women hate their bodies under patriarchy!

Alas, the world does not respond to some secret Gender Essence, it responds to the body it sees before it and tries to beat the occupant into compliance with Acceptable Gender Roles according to the secondary sex characteristics you get stuck with, which meant I spent 44 years trying to woman in varying ways, getting beaten down when I did it in the ways that made me most comfortable, which is to say the most butch ways, and also getting infantilized and paid less and told at any moment a desperate longing to be pregnant would overcome me.

And now I can go stealth if I need to and I finally don't loathe my body because it turns out the problem wasn't too many airbrushed magazine ads (look I told you I'm old) but goddamned dysphoria. And to add insult to the 44 years of devastating, disabling depression, people keep coming along and telling me I *never* experienced misogyny and I was *never* a woman and I need them to go tell it to their therapist if me naming my experience makes them uncomfortable but *I know who I was for all those years and I know what I experienced*.

What's also fun in that "how much more remote can I get before I totally divest from society" way is that I do not know a single cis woman, not even the ones who care about me, who will refer to me as a man unless she's either trying to invalidate my experiences or shut me up. Isn't that a mind fuck?

A lot of this shit about people getting mad at the terms TME and TMA strikes me as bullshit. Like yes of course transmisogyny effects more than trans women specifically but this feels like getting mad at a disabled person for pointing out that there’s a difference between being generally negatively effected by ableism and being a target of it. Like yes it sucks that there’s no elevator in this multi story building when you have to carry heavy groceries upstairs but the building is practically unusable for a person with crutches or a wheelchair for a reason. In a similar vein yes it sucks for me personally that femininity is punished in men no matter what, but there’s maybe a difference in how society treats a fat gay guy who wears nail polish and a woman who on every level is seen as a dangerous and duplicitous and a uniquely untrustworthy person for simply existing and people work very hard to refuse to see her or treat her as a “real” woman.

Yes of fucking course trans women need terminology to describe the specific mix of transphobia and misogyny they face. And i think whining about it maybe possibly means you’re part of the problem.

Would you ever describe anyone as "ableism exempt"? Or does that sound weird to you like "but you personally are allowed to be disabled and we won't be mad", which isn't a thing?

Would you ever describe anyone as "racism exempt"? Or does that sound weird to you?

Would you ever describe anyone as "misogyny exempt"?

Would you ever describe anyone as "queerphobia exempt"?

Or do all of these sound like a punchline of "everyone loves this person so much they just forget their bigotry when interacting with them"?

Words mean things. And "transmisogyny exempt" means a completely incoherent mix of concepts.

Ever growing collection demonstrating that TME is frequently used to be synonymous with "transmasc" or "afab trans people" rather than all people who are supposedly TME.

TME/TMA seem like pretty BS terms, especially when applied to groups without regard to individuals or circumstances. Just as trans women can face hate as a "man" and as a woman, trans men can face hate as a "woman" and as a man. Hate doesn't care about the self identification of the hated. It just hates.

More importantly, we can't end hate of people groups by hating people groups. If you have a problem with an ideology or a behavior, hate on that, not on the group you believe it somehow exclusively and uniformly applies to. That is just bigotry.

Groups like "trans mascs" or "trans femmes" are not monolithic or homogenous. On top of that, a person's treatment is subject to variation, based on who they are interacting with and context. Hell, some can't even avoid getting mistaken for the other group!

If you want trans liberation, you need trans solidarity, end of story. Call out bad behaviors, sure, but don't going thinking, or claiming, that they magically belong to all members of a certain group, even if you've seen it a lot from members of that group.

For those who see discussions like this and think "claims of transandrophobia are just transmisogyny in disguise," I welcome you to learn about intersectionality and then to read OP's excellent pinned post defining what it means by these things. He has literally done all the work for you and it only asks you to read and think.

literally nobody is transmisogyny exempt. it's a form of bigotry whose essence is to pressure _everyone_ into their assigned gender roles and punish them for any deviation. thats just how it works!!! its ugly and bad and NOBODY IS EXEMPT

I don’t know why so many people in the tags of me reblogging the ‘is it okay to suggest to a man who seems kind of eggy that he might be a trans woman’ poll are so quick to jump to “it’s never okay to tell someone they are a trans woman!” No sorry that’s a lie. I know exactly why they keep doing this.

The poll asked if it’s okay to suggest to a man that he might be transgender. It didn’t say “tell” it didn’t say “force” it didn’t say “coerce” or “harass,” it said SUGGEST.

You were perfectly capable of understanding the difference between suggesting and telling for all the other polls, so why did your mind change for this one?

What we’ve all been pointing out is that they did a poll of this exact question but with every other major queer identity and for every single one of them the “I’m not a [gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans man, nonbinary] but I think [yes/no]” options, the “yes” option was way higher than the no. Whereas for trans women the poll was sitting at “no” as the majority for a while and now “yes” is only a slight bit higher.

Think about why that is for a second.

You, person who feels the need to write an essay in the tags about how it’s only okay with specific circumstances or how it’s not okay unless some theoretical condition is fulfilled, think for a second, and don’t lie to yourself, if you would’ve wrote tags about that on any of the other polls.

If you are one of the many people whose immediate reaction to the poll was to think of all the ways that trans woman would be in the wrong for a suggestion, seriously think about why that is.

The mere suggestion that a man might be a trans woman is so offensive to you, but none of the other ones were. I know you people don’t bother listening anything we say about transmisogyny but could you, just for a moment, consider that maybe, just maybe, we might not just be hysterical trannies making things up for some sort of oppression Olympics

truly obnoxious when people don't like the material reality of the patriarchy and just, like, make up a patriarchy in their head that only harms people who have the Innate Ontological Womanhood Attribute. ackshually the patriarchy is a special magical force that can tell if you have the Secret Woman Gene and target you from birth even before you yourself know you are a woman, but still manages to never create any classes of people seen as men who are targeted by the patriarchy. if you experience transmisogyny it's because the patriarchy can tell you're truly a woman and is punishing you for it!

like i guess that's morbidly gender-affirming for some of us, but it's an absolutely batshit analysis of material conditions. like the patriarchy absolutely has to maintain the existence of classes of failed men who are degendered & disprivileged under manhood in order to exist, and the natural outcome of this is drawing stark distinctions between men & women and punishing anyone who steps out of those strict categories. the person whose father abuses them for having an effeminate lisp as a toddler and wanting to wear skirts is very likely to become a trans woman, but not guaranteed, and they still experienced patriarchal violence (in particular a transmisogynistic expression of patriarchy) if they end up identifying as agender or a crossdresser instead. this is like. transfeminism 101.

the two types of transfem callouts:

3. this was something taken out of context and from a private chat and heavily edited to make X look way worse than it is

no yea you are correct

either that or someone will try to find a way to accuse me of being an apologist for something or other and frame this post as an inherent red flag for that lol. many such cases

Terfs: wombyn are their ovaries!!! Ovaries make a wombybybynnn. Accept that u are a womynbdgnn you have ovaries !!!!

Me, a trans man on the danger list for ovarian cancer and is going to get them removed in the distant or near future:

not for long

You’re still female whether you have ovaries or not lmao

You heard it here first folks!! Females are females regardless of whether or not they have ovaries, so trans women are women regardless of their lack them. Well said :)

You played yourself like a damn fiddle, fool

i love watching terfs run circles around their own logic:

i especially love to person in the notes who brought up needing to have “female muscle/fat distribution patterns” like I have some incredible news for you about exactly what Hormone Replacement Therapy does…

Reblogging to show that terfs dumb crazy

🌟Reblog to piss a terf off🌟

🌷reblog to support & uplift a trans person🌷

Reblog to uplift and support a trans person and have a gif of Roman Reigns getting his shit kicked in on your page. Win win situation.

@julietta-dream

the moon is a lesbian and she hates terfs

the moon told me personally that she thinks you’re obnoxious and hopes you never get a girlfriend

I have a theory that the moon IS a trans woman cause she’s always associated with feminine things but when we saw the craters that look like a face we called it “The Man In The Moon”. She’s a woman with a face that people may perceive as male. She’s a beautiful trans woman

the moon is a beautiful trans woman who hates terfs and shows her face every night to remind other trans women they are beautiful and strong and loved and important and wonderful and that terfs and their opinions dont matter

I wanna add to this if it’s ok?? In Hindu mythology, Chandra, the moon, was originally thought of as a male deity. However, as time went on, symbolism involving the moon and the name “Chandra” itself became identified with femininity, with beautiful girls being described as having “moon-like faces,” with their dark, long hair reminding lovers of the midnight sky, and names like “Nilaa” (”moon” in Tamil) and “Indu” (in Sanskrit) are now pretty much now completely girl names! 

AlsO Chandra is married to 27 wives, who are all stars. The moon is a trans lesbian and is gay for all the stars in the sky. 

I’m gonna start a blog where I post nothing but this every hour of every day.

@julietta-dream

This is so messy omg.

not only is this transphobic but also that should be an 'an' not an 'a' i mean do you even read what you write guys guys i cracked the riddle of asshole trolls on the internet they type blind or maybe even copypaste and never read what they write that's why they never get embarrassed i solved the puzzle

This is probalby off topic, but this woman looks really beautiful, and also Russian somehow? Does anybody know who she is?

21 year old transgender female Islan Nettles died after being savagely beaten to death by her attacker Paris Wilson. According to witnesses, Wilson was shouting homophobic and transphobic slurs before being pulled off the victim by police. Wilson only received misdemeanor assault charges that were dropped after only spending 10 hours in jail… Today he is walking free in New York City. He has not been charged with murder. Islan was an aspiring fashion designer who’s dreams were cut short by the same type of hate crimes that have taken the lives of countless other lgbt youth. Spread the word about this injustice and raise awareness about savage hate crimes like this towards lgbt youth. #Regram #Justice4Islan