Aremo Shitai Koremo Shitai Onna no Ko ni Mietatte

ngl it’s pretty annoying to me when the response to any female character existing in proximity to a mlm ship (canon or not) is either “boo she sucks I don’t want her to be a love interest and get in the way” or “don’t worry she’s their mean lesbian bestie” like have you tried being normal about women for once

tired: the smart, sassy, motherly, ultracompetent girl cleverly arranges for the two boys to get together

wired: the two boys get together by desperately trying to fix at least one of the many, many things that are wrong with this hilarious disaster of a woman (they fail)

#girl genius#I mean I think they're ALSO going to get together with the girl in that because she's the main character#and I don't know that they're really trying to fix her so much as to make her worse#but yeah there's definitely an enemies-to-lovers subplot between her two male love interests in that comic#that has nothing to do with her except that their rivalry over her is what forced them together#(they were enemies from before they met her not because of her) 

she’s really mostly a “funny to bump into you at this conference” to their relationship than anything else. like 99% of how they feel about each other is based on their PRE-EXISTING RELATIONSHIP. they were friends and they bought thought the other betrayed them and they care and they have a rivalry and Agatha is really mostly just like. a setting. like sometimes they bond over her and sometimes they compete over her and sometimes she brings out the best in them and sometimes she brings out the worst in them. she also cares but mostly is busy with her own stuff. she also sees their vastly overcomplicated relationship and couldn’t give less of a shit so long as they’re not killing each other / sabotaging her.

it’s a FANTASTIC dynamic

(like, it’s incorrect to say that “their rivalry over her” is what “forced them together”! them both having someting to do with her is what caused them to run into each other! they found their way towards being together from there based purely on being each other in each other’s vicinity! Agatha was a convenient stoplight for them to be stuck at! their rivalry is not even particularly over her! they care about her and each other too much to really do romantic rivalry with any degree of investment)

No context Gil and Tarvek from my notes.

Gil relaxing when Tarvek’s around is 50% “Tarvek makes me feel safe and also he can handle some of the things I was staying awake 24 hours because no one else could” and 50% “If he’s not where I can see him he’s probably out there getting poisoned and/or kidnapped nothing good has ever happened to him when I’ve let him out of my sight ever”.

Considering how quickly Tarvek got… what was it, triple kidnapped? as soon as Gil let him out of his sight, this is actually kind of sad now.

Yeah but since then they reunited, fell asleep, picked out each other’s clothes, f i s t  b u m p e d, and THEN Gil got to hand Tarvek over to Agatha, the only safe zone. So. SUCCESS.

#girl genius#this is a post-kidnapping post though#if you want to fridge logic it sad#like in ways it wasn’t originally meant to be#you have to apply ‘times gil let tarvek out of his sight’#to tarvek’s ENTIRE CHILDHOOD#and then cry about that into the ice cream tub or alcoholic beverage of your choice

I forgot that this was this guy’s first introduction… and that Tarvek’s first reaction was to try to save his life ;~;

most of the time when Tarvek is being Nice and Good it can be spun as him fishing for political clout and influence bc this setting is good and correct and GIVES him those things when he does that

but this? there is literally no ~mercantile~ explanation. there is physically no way Tarvek doesn't know Tweedle is the guy who'd been trying to kill him. there is physically no way he isn't the one Tarvek was referring to as an 'unpleasant cousin' Gil wouldn't want in charge. there is physically no way Tarvek thinks Tweedle might harbor any actual gratitude and goodwill. Tarvek wins 0 from Tweedle not dying then and there from being a fucking idiot

this is the Purest Tarvek has shown himself to be in the entire comic and tbh?? i want more content like this

“Oh, I haven’t done anything for HIM, that was all for YOU“

Tarvek oh my fucking god nobody believes that

but also??? this selfless boy?????? he is so fucking confused but his idea of doing things for Agatha is saving her other suitor’s life and telling her to kiss him??? he pretends so hard to be jealous and to have this whole big rivalry with Gil but beyond yelling at him personally he’s just. never done anything to jeopardize their relationship, ever

I love him

He does bait Gil into attacking him to make him look bad in front of Agatha and also feed him to a plant, so I’m not sure that’s quite true.

But yes. Also this.

see thats the thing??? he only ever does those things to Gil’s FACE

and you can’t point out “he baited Gil into attacking him” and “fed Gil to a plant” at the same time, because: so is he trying to influence Agatha’s opinion by painting himself as the less aggressive one, or not???

because here’s the thing: Agatha is smart, and above everything, Tarvek knows that and respects it. At no point does he REALLY think Agatha would buy into that stupid ploy, Gil just… did that one to himself basically, and Tarvek let him.

He has this stupid boyish rivalry with Gil where he is trying to piss Gil off all the time, but… he’d never willingly put Gil in real danger??? That plant is a fuckign PLANT it doesn’t murder people instantly. Like… Agatha wasn’t mad at Tarvek for doing that? That was the equivalent of tripping Gil and laughing as he fell, both times.

meanwhile… that fucking sequence right after that where Violetta tries to tell him that Agatha is going to stay with him and Tarvek just??? doesn’t believe her??? because at no point did he really imagine that would happen??? he just kept getting more and more convinced Agatha loved Gil WHICH IS TRUE an he fucking. set them up okay??? and he had to be BODILY RESTRAINED from going after Gil when he was in danger???

like. god.

yes, he DOES have a rivalry with Gil, but the thing is? this rivalry? it’s about him and Gil. it’s not about Agatha. whenever Agatha comes into it the BOTH of them chill and don’t drag her into it. “no heroics. we save her” they both fucking drop their dorky acts and go for helping Agatha above all??? she is not an object they fight over, she is a person, and for her sake they don’t fight, for her sake they make peace

show me one page. one fucking page where Tarvek is trying to jeopardize Gil’s relationship with Agatha behind Gil’s back

(and no, doing nice things so Agatha will like him better does not count as jeopardizing her relationship with Gil come on)

I think the baiting Gil was intended, and Agatha never really catches on so of course she’s not mad about that. She’s kind of busy so she just lets it go even though she did buy it.

The plant… okay, the plant is kind of hilarious and also I’m kind of mad that no one does get mad at Tarvek about it. Because he was drugged, but so was Zeetha and she gets a talking to.

Tarvek’s reaction to having his inhibitions lowered is to first flirt with Gil and then feed him to a plant… mixed feelings much?

But he also jeopardised their entire party by incapacitating their fighter. If Zeetha and Higgs hadn’t reached them that would have been bad and even as it is… Zeetha got seriously injured. No one even comments that Tarvek doing something stupid started that and he probably didn’t mean to – he says he thought the plant would be smaller – but jeez Tarvek, people forget your screw ups really fast sometimes.

Oh yeah, the rivalry’s about him and Gil. And Tarvek does conclude Gil and Agatha should be together and it’s cute. And selfless. But I would argue the selflessness is new. He does start off willing to get between them and definitely willing to manipulate Gil into looking foolish even if he (mostly) wouldn’t hurt him.

Even things like the distraction fight – when Tarvek realises Gil can fight on his level even when he stops faking he’s pissed. He thought he could just make Gil look stupid and it’s not that easy.

I’d like to add that I agree with @iztarshi overall, but Tarvek’s screw ups are not the only ones that get forgotten. Nobody comments on Gil letting Zola escape either (until he does it himself).

Overall, finger pointing rarely happens at all in GG, and when it does it’s almost always in a practical way, in a “what does this tell me about you and your intentions” way (like when Zeetha assesses Gil at Mamma Gkika’s). It’s not about resentment, accountability or forgiveness. People almost never work out past issues, or only very briefly in the process of deciding whether they should go right or left right now. That’s why in-story, intentions matter more than actual consequences.

Zeetha getting a talking to is more there to demonstrate Higgs’ awkward protectiveness than because she truly screwed up. Higgs’ entire courting is awkward protectiveness ^^

That’s true. Things are almost always instantly forgiven.

I wonder if the talking to in that scene is also partly a redirection? The first thing Zeetha says when she wakes up is that she failed Agatha.

After Higgs scolds her she’s angry, she’s determined. She’s thinking about ways to be better instead of regretting her apparent failure.

I have no idea if Higgs did that on purpose, but it’s a possibility worth considering.

ooooh I DO love this fandom

it’s responsive :>

I don’t really have anything to comment on the Higgs thing (I was too focused on the OT3 this readthrough whoops)

but yeah, re: screwing up, NOBODY scolds anyone for anything, ever. They always focus on FIXING stuff instead. Agatha fucking didn’t expect to run out of power in the middle of Si Vales Valeo, does ANYONE bring that up? Both her and Gil missed that, but instead of wasting even a single panel ascertaining whose fault it was, they just move right on to the next idea to make the situation suck less

Tarvek DOES get comeuppance for his shit though, and you know what it is? Gil’s reactions. Gil gets mad at him for his family’s shit, Gil comments on him ‘not wanting to see AGATHA like that’, Gil isn’t sure if he can trust him. That hurts Tarvek way more than any telling off for putting them in immediate danger is. He definitely does NOT get off scott free.

(the fact that people never rehash stupid shit and just move on to fixing it? MY FAVORITE THING ABOUT THIS COMIC PROBABLY)

Oh, yeah, I agree with that.

I don’t think it contradicts my original point, though, which was Agatha not even getting mad at Tarvek for things doesn’t mean they were actually harmless.

It does make me feel better about only Zeetha seeming to be held accountable for a situation that largely wasn’t her fault at all.

well, “Agatha not getting mad” is about the allegations that Tarvek was trying to make Gil look bad in front of her

the “harmless” part follows from, uh, the part where did you SEE how Tarvek reacts when Gil is in actual danger??? Agatha fucking apologizes to him once for not keeping Gil safe enough okay??? like yeah he did stupid shit that put Gil in danger but it wasnt with the intent of actually seriously hurting him???

I’m sorry, I must have misspoken, because it wasn’t my intention to argue that Tarvek wanted Gil seriously hurt.

“Tarvek was trying to make Gil look bad in front of her” is pretty much my whole argument, and I do allege that. Tarvek is definitely not on board the ship Gil/Agatha to start with and he several times tries to make Gil look stupid presumably in hope of making him less attractive to Agatha.

The extremely meta Storm King opera seems like Tarvek’s version? He sees himself as the true and destined suitor at first and Gil as an interloper.

But when he concludes she should be with Gil he immediately decides that he’s the interloper. So he definitely comes around, but I wouldn’t say he starts there.

fair enough, yeah

it's just, if he was at any point seriously AGAINST them hooking up it must have been uhhhh before the beginning of the Si Vales Valeo arc, aka from the first time he meets Gil in the castle (thats where i started the reread from)

which, you know, everything before then doesn't even count??? because Tarvek didn't know who Gil fucking WAS? like. that's the start of the ot3 dynamic and that's what I'm talking about

and yeah maybe Tarvek wasn't always ACTIVELY ONBOARD the Gil/Agatha train

but like. he sure as fuck DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO STOP IT

(I refuse to take the 'make him look bad in front of her' farce seriously. It didn't work, it could never work, it was Tarvek messing with Gil for Gil's sake, not Agatha's)

“Oh, I haven’t done anything for HIM, that was all for YOU“

Tarvek oh my fucking god nobody believes that

but also??? this selfless boy?????? he is so fucking confused but his idea of doing things for Agatha is saving her other suitor’s life and telling her to kiss him??? he pretends so hard to be jealous and to have this whole big rivalry with Gil but beyond yelling at him personally he’s just. never done anything to jeopardize their relationship, ever

I love him

He does bait Gil into attacking him to make him look bad in front of Agatha and also feed him to a plant, so I’m not sure that’s quite true.

But yes. Also this.

see thats the thing??? he only ever does those things to Gil’s FACE

and you can’t point out “he baited Gil into attacking him” and “fed Gil to a plant” at the same time, because: so is he trying to influence Agatha’s opinion by painting himself as the less aggressive one, or not???

because here’s the thing: Agatha is smart, and above everything, Tarvek knows that and respects it. At no point does he REALLY think Agatha would buy into that stupid ploy, Gil just… did that one to himself basically, and Tarvek let him.

He has this stupid boyish rivalry with Gil where he is trying to piss Gil off all the time, but… he’d never willingly put Gil in real danger??? That plant is a fuckign PLANT it doesn’t murder people instantly. Like… Agatha wasn’t mad at Tarvek for doing that? That was the equivalent of tripping Gil and laughing as he fell, both times.

meanwhile… that fucking sequence right after that where Violetta tries to tell him that Agatha is going to stay with him and Tarvek just??? doesn’t believe her??? because at no point did he really imagine that would happen??? he just kept getting more and more convinced Agatha loved Gil WHICH IS TRUE an he fucking. set them up okay??? and he had to be BODILY RESTRAINED from going after Gil when he was in danger???

like. god.

yes, he DOES have a rivalry with Gil, but the thing is? this rivalry? it’s about him and Gil. it’s not about Agatha. whenever Agatha comes into it the BOTH of them chill and don’t drag her into it. “no heroics. we save her” they both fucking drop their dorky acts and go for helping Agatha above all??? she is not an object they fight over, she is a person, and for her sake they don’t fight, for her sake they make peace

show me one page. one fucking page where Tarvek is trying to jeopardize Gil’s relationship with Agatha behind Gil’s back

(and no, doing nice things so Agatha will like him better does not count as jeopardizing her relationship with Gil come on)

I think the baiting Gil was intended, and Agatha never really catches on so of course she’s not mad about that. She’s kind of busy so she just lets it go even though she did buy it.

The plant… okay, the plant is kind of hilarious and also I’m kind of mad that no one does get mad at Tarvek about it. Because he was drugged, but so was Zeetha and she gets a talking to.

Tarvek’s reaction to having his inhibitions lowered is to first flirt with Gil and then feed him to a plant… mixed feelings much?

But he also jeopardised their entire party by incapacitating their fighter. If Zeetha and Higgs hadn’t reached them that would have been bad and even as it is… Zeetha got seriously injured. No one even comments that Tarvek doing something stupid started that and he probably didn’t mean to – he says he thought the plant would be smaller – but jeez Tarvek, people forget your screw ups really fast sometimes.

Oh yeah, the rivalry’s about him and Gil. And Tarvek does conclude Gil and Agatha should be together and it’s cute. And selfless. But I would argue the selflessness is new. He does start off willing to get between them and definitely willing to manipulate Gil into looking foolish even if he (mostly) wouldn’t hurt him.

Even things like the distraction fight – when Tarvek realises Gil can fight on his level even when he stops faking he’s pissed. He thought he could just make Gil look stupid and it’s not that easy.

I’d like to add that I agree with @iztarshi overall, but Tarvek’s screw ups are not the only ones that get forgotten. Nobody comments on Gil letting Zola escape either (until he does it himself).

Overall, finger pointing rarely happens at all in GG, and when it does it’s almost always in a practical way, in a “what does this tell me about you and your intentions” way (like when Zeetha assesses Gil at Mamma Gkika’s). It’s not about resentment, accountability or forgiveness. People almost never work out past issues, or only very briefly in the process of deciding whether they should go right or left right now. That’s why in-story, intentions matter more than actual consequences.

Zeetha getting a talking to is more there to demonstrate Higgs’ awkward protectiveness than because she truly screwed up. Higgs’ entire courting is awkward protectiveness ^^

That’s true. Things are almost always instantly forgiven.

I wonder if the talking to in that scene is also partly a redirection? The first thing Zeetha says when she wakes up is that she failed Agatha.

After Higgs scolds her she’s angry, she’s determined. She’s thinking about ways to be better instead of regretting her apparent failure.

I have no idea if Higgs did that on purpose, but it’s a possibility worth considering.

ooooh I DO love this fandom

it’s responsive :>

I don’t really have anything to comment on the Higgs thing (I was too focused on the OT3 this readthrough whoops)

but yeah, re: screwing up, NOBODY scolds anyone for anything, ever. They always focus on FIXING stuff instead. Agatha fucking didn’t expect to run out of power in the middle of Si Vales Valeo, does ANYONE bring that up? Both her and Gil missed that, but instead of wasting even a single panel ascertaining whose fault it was, they just move right on to the next idea to make the situation suck less

Tarvek DOES get comeuppance for his shit though, and you know what it is? Gil’s reactions. Gil gets mad at him for his family’s shit, Gil comments on him ‘not wanting to see AGATHA like that’, Gil isn’t sure if he can trust him. That hurts Tarvek way more than any telling off for putting them in immediate danger is. He definitely does NOT get off scott free.

(the fact that people never rehash stupid shit and just move on to fixing it? MY FAVORITE THING ABOUT THIS COMIC PROBABLY)

Oh, yeah, I agree with that.

I don’t think it contradicts my original point, though, which was Agatha not even getting mad at Tarvek for things doesn’t mean they were actually harmless.

It does make me feel better about only Zeetha seeming to be held accountable for a situation that largely wasn’t her fault at all.

well, "Agatha not getting mad" is about the allegations that Tarvek was trying to make Gil look bad in front of her

the "harmless" part follows from, uh, the part where did you SEE how Tarvek reacts when Gil is in actual danger??? Agatha fucking apologizes to him once for not keeping Gil safe enough okay??? like yeah he did stupid shit that put Gil in danger but it wasnt with the intent of actually seriously hurting him???

“Oh, I haven’t done anything for HIM, that was all for YOU“

Tarvek oh my fucking god nobody believes that

but also??? this selfless boy?????? he is so fucking confused but his idea of doing things for Agatha is saving her other suitor’s life and telling her to kiss him??? he pretends so hard to be jealous and to have this whole big rivalry with Gil but beyond yelling at him personally he’s just. never done anything to jeopardize their relationship, ever

I love him

He does bait Gil into attacking him to make him look bad in front of Agatha and also feed him to a plant, so I’m not sure that’s quite true.

But yes. Also this.

see thats the thing??? he only ever does those things to Gil’s FACE

and you can’t point out “he baited Gil into attacking him” and “fed Gil to a plant” at the same time, because: so is he trying to influence Agatha’s opinion by painting himself as the less aggressive one, or not???

because here’s the thing: Agatha is smart, and above everything, Tarvek knows that and respects it. At no point does he REALLY think Agatha would buy into that stupid ploy, Gil just… did that one to himself basically, and Tarvek let him.

He has this stupid boyish rivalry with Gil where he is trying to piss Gil off all the time, but… he’d never willingly put Gil in real danger??? That plant is a fuckign PLANT it doesn’t murder people instantly. Like… Agatha wasn’t mad at Tarvek for doing that? That was the equivalent of tripping Gil and laughing as he fell, both times.

meanwhile… that fucking sequence right after that where Violetta tries to tell him that Agatha is going to stay with him and Tarvek just??? doesn’t believe her??? because at no point did he really imagine that would happen??? he just kept getting more and more convinced Agatha loved Gil WHICH IS TRUE an he fucking. set them up okay??? and he had to be BODILY RESTRAINED from going after Gil when he was in danger???

like. god.

yes, he DOES have a rivalry with Gil, but the thing is? this rivalry? it’s about him and Gil. it’s not about Agatha. whenever Agatha comes into it the BOTH of them chill and don’t drag her into it. “no heroics. we save her” they both fucking drop their dorky acts and go for helping Agatha above all??? she is not an object they fight over, she is a person, and for her sake they don’t fight, for her sake they make peace

show me one page. one fucking page where Tarvek is trying to jeopardize Gil’s relationship with Agatha behind Gil’s back

(and no, doing nice things so Agatha will like him better does not count as jeopardizing her relationship with Gil come on)

I think the baiting Gil was intended, and Agatha never really catches on so of course she’s not mad about that. She’s kind of busy so she just lets it go even though she did buy it.

The plant… okay, the plant is kind of hilarious and also I’m kind of mad that no one does get mad at Tarvek about it. Because he was drugged, but so was Zeetha and she gets a talking to.

Tarvek’s reaction to having his inhibitions lowered is to first flirt with Gil and then feed him to a plant… mixed feelings much?

But he also jeopardised their entire party by incapacitating their fighter. If Zeetha and Higgs hadn’t reached them that would have been bad and even as it is… Zeetha got seriously injured. No one even comments that Tarvek doing something stupid started that and he probably didn’t mean to – he says he thought the plant would be smaller – but jeez Tarvek, people forget your screw ups really fast sometimes.

Oh yeah, the rivalry’s about him and Gil. And Tarvek does conclude Gil and Agatha should be together and it’s cute. And selfless. But I would argue the selflessness is new. He does start off willing to get between them and definitely willing to manipulate Gil into looking foolish even if he (mostly) wouldn’t hurt him.

Even things like the distraction fight – when Tarvek realises Gil can fight on his level even when he stops faking he’s pissed. He thought he could just make Gil look stupid and it’s not that easy.

I’d like to add that I agree with @iztarshi overall, but Tarvek’s screw ups are not the only ones that get forgotten. Nobody comments on Gil letting Zola escape either (until he does it himself).

Overall, finger pointing rarely happens at all in GG, and when it does it’s almost always in a practical way, in a “what does this tell me about you and your intentions” way (like when Zeetha assesses Gil at Mamma Gkika’s). It’s not about resentment, accountability or forgiveness. People almost never work out past issues, or only very briefly in the process of deciding whether they should go right or left right now. That’s why in-story, intentions matter more than actual consequences.

Zeetha getting a talking to is more there to demonstrate Higgs’ awkward protectiveness than because she truly screwed up. Higgs’ entire courting is awkward protectiveness ^^

That’s true. Things are almost always instantly forgiven.

I wonder if the talking to in that scene is also partly a redirection? The first thing Zeetha says when she wakes up is that she failed Agatha.

After Higgs scolds her she’s angry, she’s determined. She’s thinking about ways to be better instead of regretting her apparent failure.

I have no idea if Higgs did that on purpose, but it’s a possibility worth considering.

ooooh I DO love this fandom

it's responsive :>

I don't really have anything to comment on the Higgs thing (I was too focused on the OT3 this readthrough whoops)

but yeah, re: screwing up, NOBODY scolds anyone for anything, ever. They always focus on FIXING stuff instead. Agatha fucking didn't expect to run out of power in the middle of Si Vales Valeo, does ANYONE bring that up? Both her and Gil missed that, but instead of wasting even a single panel ascertaining whose fault it was, they just move right on to the next idea to make the situation suck less

Tarvek DOES get comeuppance for his shit though, and you know what it is? Gil's reactions. Gil gets mad at him for his family's shit, Gil comments on him 'not wanting to see AGATHA like that', Gil isn't sure if he can trust him. That hurts Tarvek way more than any telling off for putting them in immediate danger is. He definitely does NOT get off scott free.

(the fact that people never rehash stupid shit and just move on to fixing it? MY FAVORITE THING ABOUT THIS COMIC PROBABLY)