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#kismessitude – @lilietsblog on Tumblr
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Aremo Shitai Koremo Shitai Onna no Ko ni Mietatte

@lilietsblog / lilietsblog.tumblr.com

Wow, it's been like 10 years since I updated this. Neat. I've made a dreamwidth blog just in case tumblr dies. I think dreamwidth is neat. My username on Discord is Liliet#1061 (and no I don't intend to update it, they're asking but they haven't tried to force me yet). My username on reddit is LilietB. Read PGTE. Homestuck is great. Peace and love on the planet Earth. I'm Ukrainian. Wish us luck.
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dahniwitchoflight

this onesided Karkat<3<Vriska apparent situation makes TONS more sense when you understand Blackrom as feelings as Envy sprouted from competitive feelings over a mutual skillset. The negative/pitch feelings being the envious feeling of wanting to outmatch the other instead of simply positively admiring their skill, and the previous examples of blackron was simply those feelings getting way out of hand and over obsessive, just like redrom can get way out of hand and over obsessive

for instance, if you get so envious of your rival that you try to sabotage them in increasingly violent ways, its still pitch feelings, but just obsessive more dangerous pitch feelings

John was irritated at being out-prankmastered by Terezi, it was the budding feelings of an envious relationship. Which John almost definitely doesnt view as romantic, simply as platonic contention

Karkat possibly (DEFINITELY) sees a competition in Leadership skills between him and Vriska, and Vriska doesn’t reciprocate because she doesn’t even see a competition with Karkat. As in whatever leadership skills he has, she doesnt percieve of his as matching hers, or even him as much of a competition at all

No wonder Vriska’s red and pitch quadrants are hopeless

the red failing always made sense due to her own natural self absorbedness making her fail to really admire, love and/or appreciate other people’s skills

but the pitch failing is hilarious because it literally means that she thinks nobody can reasonably compete with her! She thinks she is literally too good and too skilled to ever have a worthy rival! She literally cannot feel envious for any other person because she is too great in every way in her own eyes 

also, the point of her being a naturally good auspistice is interesting because besides John/Terezi and Karkat/Vriska, no other budding blackroms were even talked about

besides my theoretical “why am I actually getting pitch hints from DaveKat” post I made a while back

which if you add this Vriska/Karkat thing makes it look like Karkat is hitting on the pitch rebound, or trying to anyway, with Vriska.

that plus confirmations that Dave and Karkat have definitely been smooching and doing romancey stuff while Vriska and Terezi spyed on them and giggled like in the music update showed them doing makes me think that yes, DaveKat was a thing that happened, was maybe a pitch rather than red thing and maybe didnt end up ending so well, like they tried and weren’t compatible that way. Explains all the cagey awkwardness they both have about it anyway

actually this makes me wonder what the thing being competed over was in the other blackrom examples we’ve seen in Eridan<3<Vriska (probably who is the better sailor/pirate, Vriska thought obviously herself, so there was no competition or envy of Eridan.) Sn0wman<3<Slick (probably who is the more badass film noir vilain) and Gamzee<3<Terezi (I honestly have no idea?? who is the better manipulator? who is the better clown?? Did Gamzee goad Terezi into competing with him in who could be the better juggalo to the point that Terezi was actually somewhat envious of his unicycling skills. what. besides the obvious abuse of that one no wonder that pitch foundation was so onesided to begin with)

and if DaveKat had a competitive or envious element to it, it was OBVIOUSLY dick drawing skills

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lilietsblog

I agree that Admiration and Envy make much more sense for concupiscent quadrants than Hate and Pity as previously offered by Karkat!

Vriska definitely used to be black-envious of Terezi re: manipulaton, which was "fixed" by the disaster that was John's retcon. But as I was remembering early conversations, it hit me that she seemed kinda low-level black-enovious of pretty much everyone she ever interacted with, re: actually having meaningful friendships. No wonder Karkat said she was as incapable of black relationships as Tav was only in different way: her self-esteem was so down there, there was no leg for actual rivalry to stand on.

Seriously, her feel-good-about-herself state is so fragile, she has to keep herself in an "I'm better than everyone ever and have no meaningful rivals" bubble and shove every thought of maybe-other-people-might-be-better-at-something to the same place as her guilt over awful shit she did, or it'd overwhelm her the same way. She's putting everyon down to keep herself up, and she's confronted/figured out/overcame exactly 0 of her problems.

(Well, not counting the whole abusive-spidermom-forcing-to-mass-murder thing. And also being dead. That, she's done with, thankfully.)

#vriska#homestuck#character analysis#reblog#quadrants#kismessitude
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theothin
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agenderarcee

revtomdildomolar replied to your post:revtomdildomolar replied to your post:ughh i can’t…

it is.. it is my shit……………..

ok here’s basically how i ship calliope<3<caliborn

so caliborn is extremely obsessed with calliope. everything he does is about her, and i honestly think he was only ever actually happy in the moment he predominated over her. that was the goal he had built his whole life around, that was what all his energy was directed towards, everything was about hating and dominating and destroying calliope. and once that’s done, he mostly just keeps trying to relive it again! he can’t escape her no matter how much power he accrues. all he actually wants is to kill her. so he defiles her body, paints everything he can with her blood, keeps mementos like her dualing wand, creates these like, facsimiles of her to dominate, like doc scratch and the handmaid. caliborn kills calliope but he can never stop being haunted by the void she left behind. it’s both horrifying and supremely pathetic.

calliope on the other hand actually has a life outside of caliborn, but he still leaves a huge mark on her. it’s really horrible and abusive and obviously he wore down her self esteem and made her feel horrible! but he also can rile her up like nothing else, she engages with him despite her better judgment. there’s absolutely a drive to dominate caliborn in her that she tries to suppress because it’s unproductive and because she’s a better person than that, and at this point in the story she’s so much weaker than him that she can’t actually access that, there’s too much self-loathing over her failure and fear of caliborn finding her again. but like. imagine if she were to become as strong as him, or moreso. i think this did happen with the doomed timeline calliope but imagine calliope being able to overcome her fear and access her anger again. he shaped her whole existence too but for her the desire to dominate isn’t about destruction, it’s about rebuilding, it’s about taking BACK the power he stole from her.

basically i enjoy caliborn’s awful miserable obsessive boner for his sister and how utterly it’s consumed his shitty miserable life and prevented him from actually enjoying his victory, and i ALSO enjoy the idea of calliope and caliborn as equals at each other’s throats with caliborn overjoyed to get a chance to finally lay his hands on calliope only for her to utterly dominate him. and get a well-deserved cosmic snake boner about it. ok i’m rereading that and reconsidering my whole life but i stand by it.

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lilietsblog

this isn't shipping this is canon

#reblog#cherubs#cherub twins#calliope#caliborn#kismessitude#homestuck#character analysis
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Anonymous asked:

you're right but you still have to consider the things terezi said about gamzee - "he's the worst thing that's ever heppened to him" "i want him out of my life" "now of all times you can't bring yourself to raise a hand to me?" etc. not things someone in a healthy rivalry would say

the first & second -? don’t remember

the third - again, my interpretation is that they had fights. Not Gamzee beating Terezi, as abuse interpretation offers, but an even fight. Gamzee is physically strong, Terezi is a skilled fighter. Trolls are weird, and their kismessitude was so off the rails I wouldn’t be surprised to know it included a lot of unconventional unhealthy elements.

#kismessitude#quadrants#gamzee#terezi#homestuck#although given that it's romance can we even call it kink? not necessarily bad in itself#the hurtful harmful thing were the insults#most likely produced by aranea#anon#asks
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vergess
Anonymous asked:

Go learn what a kismessis is. It isn't about being tsundere. It's about HATE. Vriska had a hate crush on Tavros. Karkat even said she DIDNT GO FAR ENOUGH for it to be a true kismessis. This is an alien culture, and you're looking at it through a anthropocentric point of view when the comic explicitly states that humans would not be able to understand it. Saying that it's wrong is equivalent to going to a culture where nudity is the norm, and telling them its sexual harassment and wrong.

vergess answered:

You come into my inbox, trying to question my understanding of both intra and extraversal shipping that the implications thereof, oh sugar plum you sit your pretty little toosh down because you and me, we’re going to have a chat, and it’s not going to be fun for either of us because my head aches, of it burns with my bilious hatred for all existence today, and you signed up to get the bulk of the backlash.

Aren’t you a fortunate little hate anon.

It’s all death threats and misogyny in this inbox, but you? You’re special.

You question my merits, not those of fictional characters, and you question them not with the blind foolishness of those who want me dead for my family, for my name, for my gender or my sexuality, no.

You come to my space, you come to my blog, and tell me that I am doing it wrong.

So let’s do this. Let’s talk quadrants.

  • One: “What is kismessisitude, Professor Vees?” I hear the sensible students asking.

Not you, because you’re a disrespectful little pissant who say “zero patience for this shit tonight” as an invitation to be an awful little shithead and prove in case and point every vicious thing anyone has ever said about Tavris shippers and abuse apology. But the nice students who actually want to learn, and don’t think media exists in a vacuum.

And to them I say:

[Kismesissitude] is what a troll feels towards someone known as their kismesis. This is linked to hatred, and it is necessary that both parties feel hatred towards each other. […]
Kismesissitude seems to be based on a mix of hatred and sexual attraction. As it thrives on a rivalry between two trolls, defeating or killing your kismesis is discouraged, since obviously there wouldn’t be a relationship anymore. It is one of the two concupiscent relationships, those that deal with reproduction, the other being matespritship, and it has been shown that like with matespritship kissing is considered an appropriate expression of kismesissitude. Andrew says that the most appropriate human concept that is somewhat synonymous to kismesissitude would be “potent arch-rivalry”.

Things a kismesissitude isn’t:

  • Beating the fuck out of a partner who can’t fight back
  • Forcing a partner to participate in physically romantic gestures against their will
  • Murder

For a kismessisitude to be viable, it requires the trolls be on equal footing in the arena of their rivalry, so that they can egg eachother to greater heights.

It is a consensual relationship, and markers of physical violence are not integral to it.Vriska and Eridan, for example, had a heated rivalry based not on literally paralyzing eachother, but rather their kill counts in FLARP.

Choosing a kismesis who is so far removed from your skill level that you are effectively pummelling them into the ground for no reason is not part of the experience.

Forcing someone to make out with you against their will by mind control is also not part of the experience. See how it’s FUCKING CONSENSUAL?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

God what the fuck is wrong with these people.

Vriska, bless her severely psychologically traumatized little heart tried to produce a functional kismesissitude by “improving” Tavros, but A) he didn’t want to, and B) when his “progress” was insufficient, she turned to physical abuse, emotional abuse, and mind control to force him to fit a mold not of his own design.

Note the heavily bolded bits there: Tavros. Did. Not. Consent. He did not consent to the kisses, he did not consent to the conditioning, he did not consent to anything done during his lifetime.

Post mortem, Tavros has become a markedly different person, his behaviour erratic and anxious, almost like, oh gee IDK, a victim who has become too attached to their abuser to seek outside help.

And let’s not forget that even post-mortem Tavros display a genuine refusal to engage with Vriska’s shit anymore by literally abandoning her and everything they have worked for “together”. 

No consent here, kids. Not a wit nor a whisper.

  • Two: “But, Professor Vees, the anon said we’re looking at it from a human perspective! It’s alien!” Cry the well intentioned students who just want to understand.

Still not you, btw, because you continue to be obnoxious trash.

Fun fact: much as we may jest and jibe about The Huss being a superhuman deity from beyond the reach of mortal ken, Andrew Hussie is a human being.For that matter, so is his entire fuckbedamned audience. 

To say that it is “beyond human comprehension” is purposeful derailment. What is derailment, you ask? Well fuck you, I’m not here to answer your questions you little excremental stain.

Fortunately the audience of respectable students is also asking it.

Derailment is when you ignore the stated purpose of an argument by loading on extraneous facts in the hopes of guiding conversation away from where you want it.

For example, guiding a conversation away from the behavioural markers of abuse and onto “wow, look at them there aliens. Spooky.”

Even so, even so, you are still wrong.

And how do we know that?

Enter #1 alien babe Kanaya Maryam, unrivalled expert on “how to tell when a ship is going off the rails and when you need to get involved before it turns into murder.”

That’s right, fuckface.

Even actual members of the species were like “excuse the fuck out of you, this shit needs to stop.”

"Ah, but Kanaya had a flushcrush though," cries one particularly passionate student who isn’t thinking clearly.

Kanaya had a flushcrush. A crush that would in no way be harmed if what was going on between Vriska and Tavros were actually pitch.

Instead, Vriska became dangerously obsessed with the hypothetical idea of a Tavros who did not exist, and attempted to force him into reality by, ironically, believing hard enough that maybe the lie became a little less fake.

Vriska’s obsession with Tavros proved unhealthy not only to Tavros, which would likely not have warranted Kanaya’s intervention, but Vriska and even the other trolls. Her constant going to greater and greater lengths to get a rise out of someone who had made it clear aat huge length Was. Not. Interested led Vriska to draw out her own death, torturing herself and Tavros in one fell, manipulative swoop. Her inability to conceive of Tavros as a person, in fact, was directly fucking responsible for her death anyway.Or have we forgotten that breaking Tavros’s spine is what lead to the vengeance loop that ultimately got her killed?

At no point has Vriska ever done anything romantic with Tavros that was both consensual and in keeping the to social and societal narrative in which she was raised, as evidenced by the reactions of other members of that society to her decision making.

Even her own sister reached a point of no return for Vriska’s manipulative tendencies and abusive behaviours, albeit rather late in the game.

  • Three: “Three? I thought there were only two major points in this ask, Professor?”

There are two visibly expressed points in this ask, but by and far the most important one was left unmentioned. The tacit refusal to believe certain narratives are abusive from an external standpoint, and the horrific effects that has on actual abuse victims.

A note, before we continue: these links lead to similar essays, news stories, research efforts, and personal narratives that corroborate the claims made in this section. Many of them deal with extremely upsetting, violent content, or with content relating to psychological abuse. Please use care when proceeding.

First of all, the normalization of abusive narratives and refusal to label them as such makes abuse difficultor impossible to recognize until it advances to such a state that severe injury is incurred.

Should someone involved directly or tangentially recognizes abuse for what it is, the pervasive belief, which noncritical shipping of things like Tavris only encourages, becomes that it “doesn’t count” because the abuser loves their victim.

Even if the victim recognizes what is happening, the public backlash that abuse victims face, ranging from violent to merely a refusal for anyone to believe them, or claims that it’s “not that bad” and “just what people do,” makes it impossible for them to safely leave. It even leads them to more desperately seek the approval and love of their abuser because they somehow believe they are at fault, not strong enough or good enough.

And other people, other media, will reinforce that belief. It is unbelievably common.

Should the victim seek to escape their circumstances, they are often unable to press charges at all, for much the same reasons, as well as for fear of retribution.

That’s the message that refusing to acknowledge the inherent abusiveness of ships like this sends.

  • Bonus points: “So, can we still ship Tavris or what?”

Of course you can. No one is going to stop you.

The point is not to say that the Tavros/Vriska relationship should never be explored, viewed, consumed.

The point is that their relationship, whatever emotions may be underlying it, is not healthy. It is not healthy from the perspective of their peer, it is not healthy from the perspective of the external audience. It is not healthy when viewed through the framework of romanticized rivalry. It is not healthy by any mean or measure.

It is abusive.

Ship Tavris. But acknowledge that the relationship is couched in abuse at every level.

Ship it, but don’t deny the nature of it.

Otherwise, why are you even shipping it at all? Because the thing that exists in your head, this healthy rivalry with a fair smearing of physical violence that all parties consent to?

That doesn’t exist. At best, that’s an AU. At worst, that’s a completely different set of characters.

And pretending that it’s real only makes life harder for everyone else.

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lilietsblog

^^^ all of that also people who reference Karkat as an expert on quadrant theory /u_u\ I’ve seriously seen people try and explain that matespritship is PITY (because Karkat said that duh!) that is, doubtlessly, exactly what Kanaya felt for Vriska and then Rose she pitied them yep

#quadrants#consent#tavris#tavros#vriska#kismessitude#character analysis#reblog#allhallowsvees
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ar2456
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pimpmamas-trolls

LOOK OUT EVERYONE ANOTHER HOMESTUCK HEADCANON

Now, I’ve been noticing that a lot of people in the fan community are getting into quadrants rather quickly. NOT THAT THIS IS A BAD THING, but I kinda have my own headcanon about Matespritships and Kismesitudes that is a little uncommon, so I’d like to share it.

Now, lets take a moment to look at a Matespritship, shall we?

I like to think that a Matespritship is somewhere between long-term lovers and married. Because I think that an old-fashioned red is literally being so comfortable with someone that when your life depends on it you can fuck them even with a drone watching and waiting.

Meanwhile, we have a Kismesitude. Which seems to be a general consensus

It’s a hate relationship with your arch rival. Your hate for each other burns like a thousands suns. They are your equal, they are the person you constantly bump heads with, the person you’re always trying to one-up. This is a person that you consider your equal, and no one is allowed to punch them except you. It is a person you hate but want to preserve.

So, obviously, these two quadrants are very important. They are the concupiscient quadrants, the partners you submit buckets of genetic material with. Both of these are very crucial to survival, seeing as if you can’t donate, you are culled by the gathering drone because it’ll deem you unfit to contribute to the next generation of the species.

Now, of course, this isn’t the reason I bring these up. The main reason is that I’ve come to realize just how SEVERE it is. Leaving a quadrant, and rendering it null and void, isn’t more than just breaking up. You are basically saying that you don’t care enough to save them when Collection Night comes around. You are saying that you’d leave them to die if they don’t find a new quadrant.

I just felt like people should realize this.

So, that being said, who’s to say that there aren’t any “test-runs” before confirming a quadrant? After all, there’s no proof that there ISN’T something like this(to my limited knowledge). Why can’t we have this little dating phase before jumping into quadrants?

I like to call this phase “Compatibility Testing”, and you would refer to the other troll as “Your Compatible.”

I like to think that this would be an appropriate title for dating trolls. It is, as I said a moment a go, a dating phase where you can still be with a troll, do the nasty with them, and all that fun stuff while still not exactly going into the quad, but at the same time saying that you’re claimed for now/not looking. This is the equivalent to boyfriends/girlfriends, leaving the term Matesprite/Kismesis to the very serious and commited/settled relationships that have already made the commitment to stay together till the bitter end(at least until one person decides to leave the other for dead)

Plus it’s a nice leeway for those that are hesitant to get into a quadrant for one reason or another. That way if it doesn’t work out, there’s less repercussions. 

idk just some food for thought.

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lilietsblog

i agree but consider the implications Mindfang respected Dualscar as an equal (not shared by Vriska&Eridan in the next gen oh poor mer-asshole)

#homestuck#pimpmamas-trolls#quadrants#kismessitude#matespritship#mindfang#dualscar#reblog
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SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

she was just being in full-blown denial about bad things when a vision of Xelloss saying something that was true visited her reminding her that MAYBE HE IS MORE RIGHT THAN HER IN THIS SITUATION

so she did not just ignore his words, she just didn’t want to believe them

aaa

also this is seriously how I think a healthy black relationship would work, with partners directing and correcting each other through taunts and rivalry

#anime#slayers#liveblog#filia#xelloss#filia and xelloss sitting in a tree punching each other in the face#kismessitude#quadrants
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Look at this and tell me Filia is boring. And it was Xelloss that orchestrated this. Before, I would have dismissed this as meaning nothing / maybe having some significance in mazoku vs ryuzoku thing / no, really nothing but I’m a homestuck now this gives me a new power

Xelloss was black flirting with her even this early on

yes, Filia and Xelloss don’t really work as a red pairing yet there’s clearly chemistry it’s black deep caliginous black

#filia#xelloss#kismessitude#filia and xelloss sitting in a tree punching each other in the face#homestuck is the best#homestuck#anime#slayers#liveblog
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bladekindeyewear asked:

And yes, finally, I AM saying that Terezi and Vriska's relationship as a *black rivalry* is slightly more involved than it would be as a *strong friendship*. Its dynamic has been presented as a rivalry, and likely isn't meant to end as a different form of relationship than "rivalry". It IS a very strong friendship, but it is ALSO a rivalry, which gives it additional traits and depth. I'm not seeing controversy about the assertion, unless you want to argue that Terezi/Vriska isn't black?

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Yes, it is friendship / rivalry. I just don’t see how it has anything to do with specifically romance. I can’t recall Terezi and Vriska wanting to fuck each other IN CANON even once, which is supposed to be the thing that separates kismessitude the form of romance from just good old rivalry: the fact that it is a part of reproductive cycle.

Whether or not it matches the totally invented by Hussie label of “black” has nothing to do with its actual dynamics and characters’ feelings about it.

On an unrelated note that I’ve been meaning to express a couple of times but kept forgetting. Seriously unrelated, I just remembered it because the Scourge Sisters were brought up. People keep quoting the dialog of Terezi and Vriska where Vriska said something along the lines of “Eventurally you’ll do something horrible to someone important to you and will want to take it back but never be able to”, and keep sobbing over how Terezi did do it to Vriska herself. What I haven’t seen anyone comment on yet is how Vriska flat-out admits that she regrets what she did to Team Charge and wants to take it back to make it a thing that never happened. I’m not going to write a post on how I interpret this because I wrote a lot about Vriska already and also because this is an ask about something else entirely, I just felt the need to put this down too.

#homestuck#bladekindeyewear#asks#shipping#quadrants#terezi#vriska#scourge sisters#kismessitude#romspec is stupid#sorry about that tag again#conquer the world with cuteness
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this is something new

I’ve found a fantroll generator, played with it for a while, made a bunch of characters and quadranted them with each other according to the generator. And the dreaded shipping math made two of them a moirail/kismesis switcheroo.

How would this relationship work?

First of all, I’m talking about a healthy and functional version. There may be all sorts of unhealthy relationships that can be described as bein related to these two quadrants. But I’m talking about how this is supposed to be - at least, in the specific case of my two incidental fan characters. There may be other ways out there (=

These two are opposites in so many ways. Whatever they do, they can’t agree on how it should be done; whatever they discuss, they argue about. They can’t let each other go. They can’t just disregard the other’s opinion as invalid, and wil always try to prove their worth and one-up each other. If they are washing dishes together, it will turn into a competition of who can do it faster or quieter or cleaner. If they happen to disagree on what the shape of the cloud is more like, it will end with a survey of opinions and scientific research. They are really close. Whenever one of them is doing something, the first thing they keep in mind is what the other one will think of this and how this will reflect on their position in this unspoken rivalry. They know each other better than anyone else, inside and out, all shames and secrets. They can trust each other and rely on each other. Helping each other is a part of their rivalry: whoever is more helpful, wins. They know too many secrets of each other for this bond to ever be broken. Neither will let the other slide down; a weak kismesis is a disgrace. They will support each other in the hour of need, always, without question. They will trust each other, always, without question. And neither will violate the trust - too close the bond, too delicate the power balance.

PS I ship Terezi/Vriska in this biquadrant so hard ^-^

#homestuck#trolls#quadrants#moirallegiance#kismessitude#shipping#romspec#terezi#vriska
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