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like a lady in a song

@ladyinwinterfell / ladyinwinterfell.tumblr.com

mostly ASOIAF/GoT | otps: jonsa. zutara. ichihime. | also a bunch of random hyperfixations
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Sansa Stark and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight 

Prince Aemon Targaryen, the Dragonknight, by Chillyravenart ©

It's very interesting to notice that Sansa absolutely adores the love story between Queen Naerys and her brother Prince Aemon, the brave Knight name will frequently appear on her chapters all over the books. For those who don't know, the rumours tell the story that Prince Aemon was madly in love with his sister Princess Naerys.

Naerys was very close to Aemon but was forced by her father to marry her other brother Aegon the Unworthy. The singers say that Prince Aemon cried during the wedding and Naerys also cried during the bedding ceremony. Some will say that their love was caste and pure and that nothing happened between them, others will swear that Naerys first son, prince Daeron, was from her affair with the Dragonknight. There are several tales and rumours about their relationship.

"Naerys loved Prince Aemon the most out of her two brothers, as he knew how to make her laugh. Aemon was also more like Naerys in character, while Prince Aegon was not. Yet, in 153 AC, Naerys was married to Aegon at their father's orders. The singers like to claim that both Aemon and Naerys wept during the ceremony, but the truth is different: Aemon is known to have quarreled with Aegon during the feast, and Naerys wept during the bedding, not the actual wedding.[1] Prince Aemon joined the Kingsguard soon after the wedding, at the age of seventeen."

So, lets go to the books. Literally in her first chapter of A GAME OF THRONES, we have Sansa comparing Joffrey with Prince Aemon. You can see from the way Sansa talks how much she loves this tale and her hero, the Dragonknight.

"A whole day with her prince! She gazed at Joffrey worshipfully. He was so gallant, she thought. The way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound, why, it was almost like the songs, like the time Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the Princess Daeryssa from the giants, or Prince Aemon the Dragonknight championing Queen Naerys's honor against evil Ser Morgil's slanders. (A Game of Thrones - Sansa I)

Later, when Ned Stark informs Sansa that she and Arya are leaving Kings Landing and are going back to Winterfell, she tells him she can go and compares the love she feels for Joffrey like the love Queen Naerys felt for her brother Prince Aemon.

"Who cares about your stupid dancing master?" Sansa flared. "Father, I only just now remembered, I can't go away, I'm to marry Prince Joffrey." She tried to smile bravely for him. "I love him, Father, I truly truly do, I love him as much as Queen Naerys loved Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, as much as Jonquil loved Ser Florian. I want to be his queen and have his babies." 
"Sweet one," her father said gently, "listen to me. When you're old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who's worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. This match with Joffrey was a terrible mistake. That boy is no Prince Aemon, you must believe me."(A Game of Thrones - Sansa III)

In A CLASH OF KINGS, when Princess Myrcella is being sent away to Dorne, for her marriage alliance with Prince Trystan, little prince Tommen is crying because he will miss his sister and Sansa tries to console the poor boy telling him the tale of Prince Aemon.

Horns blew fanfares as Lionstar and Lady Lyanna pushed out from shore, moving downriver to clear the way for Seaswift. A few cheers went up from the crush along the banks, as thin and ragged as the clouds scuttling overhead. Myrcella smiled and waved from the deck. Behind her stood Arys Oakheart, his white cloak streaming. The captain ordered lines cast off, and oars pushed the Seaswift out into the lusty current of the Blackwater Rush, where her sails blossomed in the wind—common white sails, as Tyrion had insisted, not sheets of Lannister crimson. Prince Tommen sobbed. "You mew like a suckling babe," his brother hissed at him. "Princes aren't supposed to cry."
"Prince Aemon the Dragonknight cried the day Princess Naerys wed his brother Aegon," Sansa Stark said, "and the twins Ser Arryk and Ser Erryk died with tears on their cheeks after each had given the other a mortal wound." (A Clash of Kings - Tyrion IX)

When Sansa is having nightmares about the riots in Kings Landing and for heroes like the Dragonknight that she calls to save her.

That night Sansa dreamed of the riot again. The mob surged around her, shrieking, a maddened beast with a thousand faces. Everywhere she turned she saw faces twisted into monstrous inhuman masks. She wept and told them she had never done them hurt, yet they dragged her from her horse all the same. "No," she cried, "no, please, don't, don't," but no one paid her any heed. She shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, for Florian and Ser Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard. (A Clash of Kings - Sansa IV)

Now we are getting ready for the Blackwater Battle, Sansa has joined Queen Cersei in Maegor's Keep where all the high born ladies are gathered. Cersei is explaining Sansa what happens when a city is sacked and invaded and that many women will be raped and murdered.

"True knights would never harm women and children." The words rang hollow in her ears even as she said them.
"True knights." The queen seemed to find that wonderfully amusing. "No doubt you're right. So why don't you just eat your broth like a good girl and wait for Symeon Star-Eyes and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight to come rescue you, sweetling. I'm sure it won't be very long now." (A Clash of Kings - Sansa V)

Sansa loves the love songs so much that she even cries when she listen the singers telling those sad and romantic tales.

After the meal had been cleared away, many of the guests asked leave to go to the sept. Cersei graciously granted their request. Lady Tanda and her daughters were among those who fled. For those who remained, a singer was brought forth to fill the hall with the sweet music of the high harp. He sang of Jonquil and Florian, of Prince Aemon the Dragonknight and his love for his brother's queen, of Nymeria's ten thousand ships. They were beautiful songs, but terribly sad. Several of the women began to weep, and Sansa felt her own eyes growing moist. (A Clash of Kings - Sansa VI)

For me all those references to Aemon and his Queen Naerys is a big foreshadow of the future romance between Jon and Sansa, not only she doesn't seem to mind the romance between brother and sister, she seems to wish this kind of romance in her life. Funny enough, guess who was trying to be Prince Aemon the Dragonsknight in his childhood plays???? That would be Jon Snow!!!!!

Every morning they had trained together, since they were big enough to walk; Snow and Stark, spinning and slashing about the wards of Winterfell, shouting and laughing, sometimes crying when there was no one else to see. They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. "I'm PrinceAemon the Dragonknight," Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, "Well, I'm Florian the Fool" (A Storm of Swords - Jon XII)

And another curious detail I noticed, Maester Aemon at Castle Black was named for the Dragonknight. We all know he was a big influence on Jon's life and he was the one who tells Jon how love is the death of duty!!!!!!

A toothless smile quivered on the ancient lips. "Only a maester of the Citadel, bound in service to Castle Black and the Night's Watch. In my order, we put aside our house names when we take our vows and don the collar." The old man touched the maester's chain that hung loosely around his thin, fleshless neck. "My father was Maekar, the First of his Name, and my brother Aegon reigned after him in my stead. My grandfather named me for Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, who was his uncle, or his father, depending on which tale you believe. Aemon, he called me …" (A Game of Thrones - Jon VIII)

I think Sansa will have NO PROBLEM falling in love with Jon Snow and having a romance with him. He will be her WolfKnight, and there love will be a beautiful song!!!

PS- It feels sooo good writing about ASOIAF, SANSA, JONSA AND ALL again. I missed this a lot, just wished we could get Winds of Winter soon. I want to read about them, not only write metas about future storylines, sigh!!!!!

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Regarding the original outline + some thoughts on Jon & Sansa… 

This is a long one. Buckle up.

If there is one thing I have picked up on in the ASOIAF fandom, it’s the knee-jerk negative reaction towards any theory/parallel/connection between Jon and Sansa. This was exacerbated by the show, of course but even now - five years later, there is an insane amount of vitriol that my brain is unable to comprehend. And here’s the rub; the infamous 1993 outline is the irony of it all. 

In a fandom that is a-okay with *certain* incest ships (r.e D@enerys x Jon, D@emon x Rh@enyra, Jon x Aria), as well as blatantly pedophilic ships (Sansa x S@ndor, Sansa x Littlefinger, Sansa x Tyrio*), how is Jon x Sansa the worst of them all? I’m going to pin it down to audience engagement with the show, particularly around the later seasons when Jon + Sansa reunite and people began to ‘ship’ them. So many believe that is how the ship took off, and thus it is mere crack - but there are posts tracking back to 2012/2013 theorising the possibility of Jon x Sansa. Was it spurred by the show? Certainly! But it does not take away from the fact that people were making valid arguments and essays before the general fandom was even comprehending a Jon and Sansa reunion on screen. And people were open to discussing/debating it with general civility (a far cry from today). 

I’m 90% certain people weren’t criticising those who began to believe in Jon x Aria when the outline was leaked…(though there were most definitely shippers before). But we never see the same level of vitriol towards Jon x Aria shippers, which is strange. 

In any case, let’s talk about said outline, some of the key points - and how I believe GRRM made the switch from Jon x Aria to Jon x Sansa. I’ll be drawing from GRRM’s past works, interviews, art, and his personal life - as well as other potential literary influences. I'll be linking metas along the way, but without further ado - let's go.

In October 1993, GRRM wrote a pitch outline for a publishing company. It was three pages long and conveyed alongside the first thirteen chapters of AGOT (170 pages). The three paged letter was leaked on twitter in February 2014, though there were multiple aspects parts blacked out. Keep in mind though, this may not be the *only* outline that exists. There are multiple outlines that have never been publicly released (and will likely remain that way). 

But let’s just focus on the 1993 outline, since we’re privy to the details. The thirteen chapters attached to the outline did *not* yet have a Sansa POV, and that’s because in this outline, she wasn’t listed as a key character.

The key characters were; Bran, Jon, Tyrion, D@enerys, and Aria.  

The first thirteen chapters were; Prologue; Bran I, Catelyn I, D@enerys I, Eddard I, Jon I, Catelyn II, Aria I, Bran II, Tyrion I, Jon II, D@enerys II, Eddard II, Tyrion II. 

I’ve seen people claim that Sansa isn’t an important character since she wasn’t listed as a key character, but they conveniently leave out the fact that a) her chapters were not yet written, b)she was given an entirely different more passive storyline in this outline, c) she dies, d) this was far far before GRRM fleshed out his characters entirely - Sansa took on a life of her own and she became her own solid complex character with an arc in 4 out of 5 of the books; 25 chapters. 

In fact, since the books have been published GRRM has regarded Sansa and the Starks as a main character as well;

Collider: In creating this world, did you start out with one family and then branch off into the rest of the world?

GRRM: Well, the Starks are certainly the centre of the story, when it begins. It all begins at Winterfell, with occasional cuts to Daenerys across the ocean, because there was no way I could get her into Winterfell. But, we bring all the characters together at Winterfell, and they’re all there for a while before they start to go their separate ways ... .But, the Starks are the centre of the book and, to a lesser extent, the Lannisters. They are still the major players. 

Collider: When you went into this, did you intentionally take the children, put them in an adult setting and force them to be in very adult and complex situations?

GRRM: Yeah, the children were always at the heart of this. The Stark children, in particular, were always very central. Bran is the first viewpoint character that we meet, and then we meet Jon and Sansa and Arya and the rest of them. It was always my intention to do that.” 

May 2016 - Balticon. 

(…) George said he was “pissed” that the outline was posted in the office building and that someone took photos and shared them. He said it was a letter for him and the publisher only. He was very firm when telling this and it showed on his face.

He then said that he is not good with writing outlines, making book deadlines, and that often in outlines he was “making shit up”, and “characters changed along the way”.

He went straight from talking about the references in the actual books, to the “differences” in the outline from then to now. He did say that he still knows who sits the iron throne and the end game of the main 5, but also included Sansa, but did not give any details (for obvious reasons).

[question if he is still going with the 1991 ending]

“Yes, I mean, I did partly joke when I said I don’t know where I was going. I know the broad strokes, and I’ve known the broad strokes since 1991. I know who’s going to be on the Iron Throne. I know who’s gonna win some of the battles, I know the major characters, who’s gonna die and how they’re gonna die, and who’s gonna get married and all that. The major characters. 

….

“So a lot of the minor characters I’m still discovering along the way. But the mains-”

[question if he knows Arya’s and Jon’s fates]

“Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Sansa, you know, all of the Stark kids, and the major Lannisters, yeah.”

“Ah, how innocent I was… little did that guy in the picture imagine that he would be spending most of the next two decades in the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros with Tyrion, Daenerys, Arya, Sansa, Jon Snow, Bran, and all the rest.”

So Sansa has clearly developed into an important character from GRRM’s words, and the key-characters argument can cease, because It’s very tiring to dispel that when the characters and story took on a life of its own. (I mean, Jaime was meant to remain a villain, but he was clearly given somewhat of a redemption arc in the main series).

The Aria in the original outline: 

*NOTE: I am blacking out her actual names in case the wrong people find this post. None of this anti her, please keep that in mind.*

  • Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, [...] The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, D@enerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Aria, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow. 
  • Joffrey will not be sympathetic and Ned [what appears to say] will be accused of treason, but before he is taken he will help his wife and his daughter Aria escape back to Winterfell.
  • Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Aria, while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family.
  • When Winterfell burns, Catelyn Stark will be forced to flee north with her son Bran and her daughter Aria. Wounded by Lannister riders, they will seek refuge at the Wall, but the men of the Night's Watch give up their families when they take the black, and Jon and Benjen will not be able to help, to Jon's anguish. It will lead to a bitter estrangement between Jon and Bran. 
  • Aria will be more forgiving ... until she realises, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Aria throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.
  • Abandoned by the Night's Watch, Catelyn and her children will find their only hope of safety lies even further north, beyond the Wall, where they fall into the hands of Mance Rayder, the King-beyond-the-Wall, and get a dreadful glimpse of the inhuman others as they attack the wilding encampment. Bran's magic, Aria's sword Needle, and the savagery of their direwolves will help them survive, but their mother Catelyn will die at the hands of the others.
  • Exiled, Tyrion will change sides, making common cause with the surviving Starks to bring his brother down, and falling helplessly in love with Aria Stark while he's at it. His passion is, alas, unreciprocated, but no less intense for that, and it will lead to a deadly rivalry between Tyrion and Jon Snow

Observations:

Exactly how old is Aria? Is she a warrior princess who cries at songs like her aunt? Does she enjoy/yearn for romance? Is she a stunningly beautiful maiden rivalling that of Cersei? How close were she and Jon? Did they have a good sibling relationship? Or were they distant? Does she look physically different to Jon? Does she have red hair? 

The Sansa of the Original Outline:

  • ‘Each of the contending families will learn it has a member of dubious loyalty in its midst. Sansa Stark, wed to Joffrey Baratheon, will bear him a son, the heir to the throne, and when the crunch comes she will choose her husband and child over her parents and siblings, a choice she will later bitterly rue.’ 
  • Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Aria, while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family.
  • Jaime Lannister will follow Joffrey on the throne of the Seven Kingdoms, by the simple expedient of killing everyone ahead of him in the line of succession and blaming his brother Tyrion for the murders. 

More observations:

How old is Sansa? Is she 16? 17? She’s conveyed as a less important character in this outline - why? Queen of the Seven Kingdoms? She dies? Jaime kills her? What is her relationship with Aria like? Are/were they close? Or was Sansa initially meant to be a two-tone villain who betrayed her family? Is she overwhelmingly beautiful? Or is she the plainer sister? 

It’s quite clear that both ASOIAF Aria and ASOIAF Sansa are entirely different characters to their outlined counterparts. 

In the outline, Tyrion sacks and burns Winterfell. In ASOIAF, It’s Theon and later Ramsay who does this. In the outline, it’s Bran, Aria, and Catelyn who go beyond the Wall. In ASOIAF, it’s Bran, Meera, and Jojen (and Hodor). There are a couple of other changes made here, but there seems a pattern where certain acts *still* occur in the main series, they’re just given to different characters (which makes sense, as GRRM grows organically with his characters.)

So, when we take into account the fact of ASOIAF Sansa being considered a main/key character, her marriage to Tyrion, and the possibility of her being the first to reunite with Jon - perhaps GRRM did keep a Stark x Snow romance - but gave it to a different sister. 

In the 2016 Balticon report, GRRM stated he wished that ‘some past things didn’t have such strong foreshadowing and that newer things had stronger foreshadowing.’ You can make a case for J0nrya foreshadowing in the first book, but I’d argue that ACOK/ASOS is where the Jon/Sansa clues and foreshadowing is rife. (and there are certainly Jon/Sansa clues in the first book as well.) 

Now to circle back. The Aria of this outline doesn’t have a personality - none of the characters do, really. We don’t know how old she is. Is she a teenager? Is she close in age to Jon? We know she has her needle, so can infer she is a fighter and spirited, but is there a soft romantic side to her? Does she cry at songs like her aunt Lyanna? Does she yearn for love? Is she immensely beautiful? For a narrative like this? It'd be likely if Jon and Tyrion are fighting to the death over her, sort of like gallant knights fighting each other to win the heart of a fair maiden (very romantic and idealistic, mirroring the songs and the stories).

(This is how I am certainly inferring such a scene would have gone).

The ASOIAF Aria we know and love took on a life of her own. She’s described as plain looking (some envision her to be more beautiful than characters like D@ny, Cersei, and Sansa though). - But just quickly on that matter, Aria is indeed compared to Lyanna in looks and spirit, though Lyanna’s beauty was described as wild and implied as non-conventional; different perspectives have different opinions on her. For example, Cersei, Jaime, Devan, the Maester who wrote the WOIAF don’t consider her anything special. Whereas Ned, Robert, and Rhaegar do. So it’s one of those instances where you aren’t exactly sure. In any case, Aria's looks aren't a driving factor in her arc, and I don’t see ASOIAF Tyrion (as creepy as he is) suddenly falling in love with her due to mere attraction because presently, Aria is all knobbly knees and elbows, stick thin, a child, not a maiden, who will still be a pre-teen at the end of the series, if there is no massive time jump.

SHE'S JUST A BABY.

But then, Tyrion did lust after Sansa, so there’s that… however ….

Sansa’s beauty is a driving force in her narrative arc. She is objectified for her beauty. Preyed upon because of her beauty; in many ways it causes her to suffer. It’s largely why LF is grossly infatuated with her - she’s beautiful like Catelyn. Tyrion is attracted to Sansa and wishes to bed her, the H0und intends to rape her during the Blackwater battle, he also comments on her breasts growing, Joffrey sexually humiliates her in court, Ser Dontos has a pervy infatuation with her, Cersei despises Sansa because she is younger, more beautiful etc which she views as a threat.

So, beauty is pertinent to Sansa’s narrative, and it isn’t vain or shallow to say so because it’s a large part as to why she suffers. And her physical beauty is meant to compliment her indulgence in romantic idealism; knights, chivalry, courtly love, beautiful appearances thus equating to good people. It also contributes to perceptions of Sansa; nothing more than a pretty, stupid girl with naive dreams. 

So back to ASOIAF Aria: Her arc largely surrounds nature & nature, mercy, war trauma and survival, friendship, belonging, and family. For the majority of the story, she is a traumatised 10 year old travelling through a war torn country, witness to awful horrors, forced to assume multiple identities, until she goes to Braavos and begins her faceless man arc. But this is obviously not her endgame - she is going to go home eventually, that is quite clear.

You can argue she had a little crush on Gendry (as a 10 year old would) (and perhaps something may happen with him when she is older, I think GRRM has played with it.) But other than that, romance is not a central part of Aria's arc insofar. For outline Aria it was, but current ASOIAF Aria is on a completely different tangent all together.

(and that poor poor child is suffering immensely while this is all occurring).  Currently, she has no time for/interest in it. She hasn’t been involved in betrothals/marriages, or had men lusting after her (save ‘Mercy’ and people men making brutalising sexual comments towards her). She disguises herself as a boy for a good chunk of the story as it is safer to travel.

No, I’m not trying to reduce any sexual trauma/objectification she suffers, she’s a little girl for heaven’s sake - I’m merely stating that what she is going through is in some ways similar and different to what Sansa is going through. (Who currently is in a in a very Lolita type situation with LF and men sexually intimidating/abusing her has been a key part of her arc - as I said, she suffers significantly due to her beauty. She is something to possess, she isn't real or tangible, she is a beautiful maid with a vast claim to the North.)

Anyway, ASOIAF Aria finds songs and romance ‘stupid.’ 

“Sansa would have shed a tear for true love, but Arya just thought it was stupid.” (Arya VIII ASOS) 

 (but that doesn’t mean she won’t encounter it later in life, it just means that at this point of the story, she isn’t interested/likely won't encounter some epic grand romance that outline Aria was likely destined for. (And she’s 11 for god’s sake!).

‘But Sansa was dreaming of love at that age!’

Sansa has been a romantic idealistic dreamer since she was a little girl. She adored those stories and is the literal embodiment of the mediaeval pre-raphaelite maiden depicted in art. It’s central to her story arc, to her qualities, and how she functions/copes with things around her. “Life is not a song.” Is so fundamental to that.

So to reiterate ASOIAF Aria is a completely different character to outline Aria- for all we know OG Aria was 15 years old, very beautiful to the point of men duelling over her, (just as depicted in art above) likely a romantic heroine, had consistent memory lapses that would cause her to “realise in terror, she had fallen for Jon,” and based off of GRRM’s past works - was probably a redhead. 

“But OG Aria has a sword named needle!”

Indeed, but as I stated, we don’t know anything else about her beyond that. Many have theorised that D@ny and Jon are the epic romance of the series, but it’s clear from this particular outline that GRRM intended for it to be Aria and Jon as the epic major romance of the series. That would mean Aria would have to be a somewhat romantically-inclined character, for this development to appear natural and not forced. Based on her current ASOIAF arc, it doesn’t track for her character to make a sudden 180. Her softness and vulnerable moments come from thinking of her family and home. Insofar, this isn’t equated to yearning for love, romance, children, as Sansa has done from the beginning of the series.

Now, we know GRRM is a self-proclaimed romantic, and ASOIAF Sansa exists very much as a deconstruction of romanticism. 

“He said he is a romantic, in the classical sense. He said the trouble with being a romantic is that from a very early age you keep having your face smashed into the harshness of reality. That things aren’t always fair, bad things happen to good people, etc. he said it’s a realistic world, so romantics are burned quite often. This theme of romantic idealism conflicting with harsh reality is something he finds very dramatic and compelling, and he weaves it into his work.” (2005 interview).

Sansa is arguably, the embodiment of this dismantling. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that love isn’t real, or that it doesn’t deserve to exist in a gritty world such as Westeros. There were many couples who had good, happy marriages, even after war and loss and trauma. For example, apart from the Jon Snow situation, Ned and Catelyn had a remarkably healthy relationship. So it is possible - the takeaway from the series is not that hoping is meaningless, dreams are meaningless, love is meaningless. More so that it is complicated, and it must coexist alongside all the chaos in order to achieve a sort of

equilibrium. A literal ‘Dream of Spring’ a hope for happiness, rather than happiness itself. It tracks with the bittersweet conclusion to the series ; it is a grimdark story, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be a grimdark ending where everyone good and noble dies and wishes/dreams/innate desires remain unfulfilled. 

In fact, I argue that a lot of them will come true - but at what cost? It’ll be at the cost of loss and grief, of suffering upon suffering, but what’s inherently more powerful, what’s more subversive is having those characters persist and rebuild, regenerate, create a new world where love and chaos undoubtedly exist alongside each other, but just because there is chaos, that does not mean the love is miniscule or cancels out entirely. 

Because if all these characters have the most unsatisfying, awful conclusions known to man, well - what was the point of everything? What was the point of their journeys? This isn’t a nihilistic story, and it won’t have a nihilistic ending like everyone assumes. It’s far more difficult for an author to craft such an ending, balancing things out whilst acknowledging all the loss and still holding out hope for a better future to come. That brighter days will arrive. That winter will end, and spring will be on the horizon.

“We may lose our heads, it’s true. But what if we prevail?” (Davos I ADWD). 

And that right there, sums it up perfectly. 

So you need characters like Sansa, characters like Brienne, D@ny, (you know what let’s just add all the Stark children of the series to the list, because every single character arc is about remaining resilient and prevailing in some way or another). 

But it’s Sansa who exists as the meta character that embodies/indulges in all those romantic ideals that GRRM is intent on exploring - it thus makes perfect sense for it to be her that experiences the romance arc. Many people think she’ll end up with the H0und, or Harry the douchebag, because it’s a part of her growing up, maturing, learning from her negative biases etc etc but she shouldn’t have to be with abusive or douchy men to learn that. She’s already learned and suffered enough. 

“It is my claim they want. No one will ever marry me for love.”

And how utterly heartbreaking that she has resigned to think this, with her arc only mid-way. But importantly, just a few chapters later she enters the garden of undisputed beauty and equates the snow landing on her face with romantic kisses, she dreams of innocence and winterfell, despite lamenting how she doesn’t belong in such a pure world, she steps out into it all the same. And she builds her home in the snow, content and for once - she’s the child she is, the child she is yearning to be.

So Sansa falling in love with Jon makes sense on a characteristic level. It’s something she never would have considered as a sheltered child, not just because he’s her bastard half brother but because he just didn’t exist in her idea of how the world works. He didn’t fit in with her idea of knights, and courtly love and chivalry. He wasn’t a gallant golden prince, he was dark, sulky and brooding. He existed on the parameters of her life, and she was comfortable with that distant association - but she still loved him, and he her. 

Falling in love with Jon would equate to a dismantling of these previous prejudices  she held; he’s utterly unconventional, the opposite of what she has shown attraction to (despite her first ‘love’ being Waymar Royce, who resembles Jon strikingly). The man she never really considered beyond courtesy and some scarce, fond memories - to be the one who restores her faith in men, in love, in dreams. 

“Realising with terror that she has fallen in love with Jon… their passion will continue to torment them.” 

tracks with Sansa’s characterisation particularly, her memory lapses, her clouded judgement, and inability to interpret things correctly (and something as confusing as this would certainly cause her to have some cognitive dissonance going on).

Not to mention caution around well… men. Because who would ever marry her for love? Who would ever take her for true? Love her without expectations and judgement? It’s Jon. Who has been there since the very beginning, who has been a silent unconscious hero, the answer to her prayers, who embodies all those romantic and knightly ideals she has so desperately wanted - despite her being unaware. Who has advocated for her claim - above everyone else.

“No one will ever marry me for love.” And that infamous Jon chapter follows. Jon who is never quite far from Sansa’s suitors. Jon, who has a similar dream of rebuilding Winterfell, of having children named after lost siblings, who wants to woo a girl by giving her a rose and loving beneath the heart tree - the heart of Winterfell. Who would undeniably want to have that beautiful soul-nourishing love he never received as a child, that he believes is perpetually unavailable to him. 

Above all,  they just fit together. It fits with GRRM’s William Faulkner-esque “the human heart in conflict with itself".” And this is a perfectly subversive way of  encapsulating that Jon confusing brotherly love and affection with romance, struggling with the shame of it all - especially post-resurrection, the religious disillusionment that would occur, the notion of Jon being loved by the kind of girl he believed he never had the right to, who his deeply romantic heart is yearned for. (There is a reason GRRM let us know how badly Jon yearns for domesticity, Winterfell love, children, and a wife. He associates his love for Ygritte with her singing, her hair, her smile. He dreams of her tending to him with gentle hands) The simple yet meaningful things that have been denied to him because of his bastardry. And god, what better way to torment these two than by having them fall for each other - realising they fit each other so perfectly, yet tormented by their familial relation. Until, as the outline puts, the parentage is revealed. 

Do I believe they will act on their feelings pre-parentage reveal? No. It’ll likely exist in the subtext, in private thoughts and actions. Angst, guilt. Again, the stuff that GRRM loves - the human heart is in conflict with itself. 

Much like Lord Byron’s ‘The Bride of Abydos.” Where half-siblings fall in love with each other until they realise they are actually cousins. Lord Byron, who was famously in love with his half sister Augusta, who was a stranger to him for a good portion of his life until they properly got to know each other and fell in love. (Who does that sound like?’)

And if you’re wondering how Jon and Sansa could possibly connect to Lord Byron, well there is a ‘Byron the Beautiful’ in Alayne II AFFC, and Alayne I TWOW. GRRM has further instilled characters by the name of “Manfred” which is in reference to Lord Byron’s infamous work of the same name. (I urge you to check out all of Cappy's Byron metas, they are fantastic.

And, Jon has been called a “Brooding, Byronic, romantic heroine whom all the girls love.” GRRM knows what Byronic is inferring - he isn’t daft, he’s a writer - he reads other works and takes influence and sprinkles in so many things. 

A Byronic character involves:

. . romantic melancholy, guilt for secret sin, pride, defiance, restlessness, alienation, revenge, remorse, moodiness, and such noble virtues as honor, altruism, courage, and pure love for a gentle woman. (Poetry Foundation, Lord Byron)

“GRRM: I was always intensely Romantic, even when I was too young to understand what that meant. But Romanticism has its dark side, as any Romantic soon discovers… which is where the melancholy comes in, I suppose. I don’t know if this is a matter of artistic influences so much as it is of temperament. But there’s always been something in the twilight that moves me, and a sunset speaks to me in a way that no sunrise ever has.”

And isn’t that exactly what he would be exploring with Jon and Sansa? It isn’t a conventional romance by any means. It could never exist normally until Jon’s parentage is revealed. And that is the tormented nature of it, that is the “bittersweetness” of it - it is rooted in realism, yes - and that to me, is Sansa receiving her true love, countering that no one would ever marry her for love. The gods will grant it to her, - but it’s wrapped up in this darker, morally ambiguous thing that is confusing for her, even though Jon would be her dream come true - he isn’t this neat little courtly golden package, but he embodies all those ideals more than any man she’s actually met. 

It’s subversive to what both the characters and the readers expect, and it’s just a brilliant plot twist that screams unpredictability whilst fitting together like a perfect puzzle. It creates internal conflict and evokes those themes that GRRM loves to explore. By giving the ‘heroes’ of the series a motif such as incest is extremely bold; because it challenges the reader greatly. Some people don’t want Jon to end up with Sansa because it contradicts the image that they have of him in his head - the heroic male who will save the world with his heroic counterpart and together they shall rule the seven kingdoms. To embrace his father’s family, claim a dragon, fulfil the prophecy, be the third head of the dragon, reject his stark-ness. Very predictable. Done to death a thousand times over, and yet - it is what the general audience wants/expects. It’s what the dudebros who call him the ‘GOAT’ want, it’s what the Targ stans want, it’s what the show watchers wanted - but what does Jon want? 

“Yet he could not let the wildlings breach the Wall, to threaten Winterfell and the north, the barrowlands and the Rills, White Harbor and the Stony Shore, even the Neck. For eight thousand years the men of House Stark had lived and died to protect their people against such ravagers and reavers . . . and bastard-born or no, the same blood ran in his veins. Bran and Rickon are still at Winterfell besides. Maester Luwin, Ser Rodrik, Old Nan, Farlen the kennelmaster, Mikken at his forge and Gage by his ovens . . . everyone I ever knew, everyone I ever loved.” (Jon II ASOS). 

“I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister's son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly's boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We'd find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance's son and Craster's would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.

"He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade.” (Jon XII ASOS). 

“Red eyes, Jon realised, but not like Melisandre's. He had a weirwood's eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree. He belongs to the old gods, this one. And he alone of all the direwolves was white. Six pups they'd found in the late summer snows, him and Robb; five that were grey and black and brown, for the five Starks, and one white, as white as Snow.”

He had his answer then." (Jon XII ASOS)

“He was the blood of Winterfell, a man of the Night's Watch. I will not father a bastard, he told her. I will not. I will not. "You know nothing, Jon Snow," she whispered.” (Jon VI ASOS)

“Ygritte answered for him. "His name is Jon Snow. He is Eddard Stark's blood, of Winterfell." (Jon VIII ACOK)

"Then you must do what needs be done," Qhorin Halfhand said. "You are the blood of Winterfell and a man of the Night's Watch." (Jon VI ASOS). 

“You can't be the Lord of Winterfell, you're bastard-born, he heard Robb say again. And the stone kings were growling at him with granite tongues. You do not belong here. This is not your place. When Jon closed his eyes he saw the heart tree, with its pale limbs, red leaves, and solemn face. The weirwood was the heart of Winterfell, Lord Eddard always said . . . but to save the castle Jon would have to tear that heart up by its ancient roots, and feed it to the red woman's hungry fire god. I have no right, he thought. Winterfell belongs to the old gods.” (Jon XII ASOS) 

“He sat on the bench and buried his head in his hands. Why am I so angry? he asked himself, but it was a stupid question. Lord of Winterfell. I could be the Lord of Winterfell. My father's heir.” (Jon XII ASOS).

“If I could show her Winterfell . . . give her a flower from the glass gardens, feast her in the Great Hall, and show her the stone kings on their thrones. We could bathe in the hot pools, and love beneath the heart tree while the old gods watched over us.” (Jon V ASOS). 

“If he must perish, let it be with a sword in his hand, fighting his father's killers. He was no true Stark, had never been one … but he could die like one. Let them say that Eddard Stark had fathered four sons, not three.” (Jon IX AGOT).

Look, at the end of the day - we don't know how the story will go, but based off of Jon’s character arc? His thoughts? His actions? His relationships with his siblings? The fact that he has warged into a magical beast directly associated with Starks? The North? The Old Gods? The weir wood trees? I think that instead of GRRM having Jon go down the conventional disadvantaged male hero finding out he is a secret prince and thus becoming King and a proper Targ, GRRM will subvert expectations (much to audience displeasure) and do the opposite.

Learning of his true identity will just cause more angst and a major identity crisis. The one thing Jon finds real and solid, that no one can take from him - is that he is Ned Stark’s son. He raised him. Perhaps they don’t share a direct blood link. But that doesn’t matter, what matters is that he was raised by him, loved by him. So instead of choosing his father’s family; embracing the secret prince persona and fighting for the throne - he’ll choose his mother’s family. And I think that is beautifully conclusive.

But back to Jon and Sansa. GRRM is given the opportunity to explore the sort of impact this incest motif has on fundamentally good people. And I think this is what he originally intended to do with Jon and Aria.

Yes, we have Jaime and Cersei, but this is real sibling incest and rife with toxic narcissism, possession etc. We have the T@rgaryens, which are messy beyond belief and practice it due to blood purity. 

But Jon and Sansa clearly differ from the rest, and that is because they exist partly as foils as to what we previously have seen. Similar to Jonnel x Sansa. By intentionally refraining from the development of a properly-close sibling relationship, making Jon and Sansa fundamental opposites visually, and associating them with entirely different cultures (yet writing their core personas as the same, their dreams compatible, their thought process and idealism similar).

GRRM manages to pave the way into such a romance that comes as a shock to the characters, the narrative, and readers themselves. Because no one, absolutely no one would see it coming, and the people who have been privy to the theory - immediately dismiss it - and become quite angry when it is brought up. Like I said earlier, a knee-jerk reaction. 

Whether Jon and Sansa fall in love is up to the author and his intended exploration of literary/mythic themes that his predecessors have deployed. He is not writing from (or for) the moral values of show watchers and book readers, or their anecdotal hopes for how things “should be.” He’s writing a narrative that breaks away from conventional storytelling and what we expect from such characters.’

‘ I don’t believe the author is giving up completely on the romantic dream. He has made Sansa more cautious, converted her dreams into mere prayers, and has forced her to examine her assumptions, but he’s not turning her into the H0und, who is too pessimistic and fatalistic as a suitor. Sandor’s assertion that all knights are killers makes fantasy so small, it’s eliminated. I think he is setting Sansa on a path where her dreams do die, and her life becomes about as romantic as that smokestack in Cleveland - until they start to come alive again when she travels North to the Wall.’

'That cold, hard reality is still present in the fact that they are brother and sister, but once Jon’s parentage is revealed, this will change. Like an inverted Cinderella (clock striking 12), the reality will become fantasy again. But it’s still inladen with this bitter reality of their relations. So taking this into account, I believe Jon and Sansa could happen because there is no other couple in the series with which GRRM can explore his fascination with fantasy becoming “smaller,” but not completely shrinking altogether. There are no two better characters who represent these ideas, who have the same quietly domestic desires - who do not (at the moment) actively lust for power and cause it to blind them.'

So in essence, Jon and Sansa exist as the subversion of romance. In a twisted, loving sort of way that is morally conflicting to the characters and audiences (for a time). That has existed between the lines, subtly and implicitly. That the audience gives absolutely no thought, because why would they? And if they do, they are abhorred by it - but I’d argue this is the entire point. But not for the reasons you think, not because of the incest - or J0nerys would disgust them.

From the moment he started the series, GRRM has employed incest as a major motif that impacts both the narrative and the characters - the causes the war, that contributes to T@rgaryen values, legacy etc, that propels aspects of narcissism and vitriol for characters like Cersei. It’s really really interesting stuff, as uncomfortable as it is - there are no other works that explore it so messily and beautifully with such nuance. 

I believe people seriously underestimate GRRM’s use of omission and subtext. Seriously, just because something is not explicitly stated, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Unfortunately fans have such a surface level reading of the text, that they are unable to peel back the layers and get to its core. They don’t consider literary influences, or art, or the Romantic movement or anything. They claim they want a complex story that is subversive, yet they cheer for the three-headed dragon theory and all the most predictable plot points that have been absolutely done to death. But then they turn up their noses at anything that goes against the grain, or insinuates otherwise.  

R + L = J is a great example of existence within the subtext, yet nobody denies that it is there. No one is called crazy or delusional for it. Ned never thinks of Jon’s true parentage despite harbouring that secret for years, because it is buried deep in his subconscious.

And much to the audience’s surprise (and dismay I'm sure) that is how Jon and Sansa will manifest. This is the human heart in conflict with Jon and Sansa, but not just them - the readers as well. It’s pointing to us, asking us how we’ll possibly handle it. We’re meant to feel this conflict of emotions - anguish and torment and yet hope for something ineffable - just like the characters.

To be able to evoke that as a writer is one of the most impressive feats I can think of - and for the majority of it to exist at this point, in a subconscious limbo?  How utterly complex and painful and raw and intelligent but oh so very brilliant. Perhaps one of the most compelling things to come out of this entire series, if only the general audience was open to such discussions. But alas, we must contend with the community we have, and hope for a dream of spring to come upon us. 

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babybells123

There is something so beautifully anvilicious about these quotes;

" I am a bastard too now, just like him. Oh, it would be so sweet, to see him once again. But of course that could never be. Alayne Stone had no brothers, baseborn or otherwise." (AFFC, Alayne II)

"The dream was sweet . . . but Winterfell would never be his to show. It belonged to his brother, the King in the North. He was a Snow, not a Stark. Bastard, oathbreaker, and turncloak . . ." (ASOS, Jon V)

Both Jon and Sansa are yearning for Winterfell and the feelings/memories/family associated -but both are intrinsically restricting themselves based off of their bastard status. The notion of Sansa being the only Stark (and character) to transition from a high-born noble lady to a baseborn bastard cannot be overlooked. (And then of course, the notion of Jon being the only Stark (and character) to transition from baseborn bastard to lord commander, cannot be overlooked.) Jon has risen to the top whilst Sansa has lowered to the bottom.

She (GRRM) makes the comparison to Jon herself, meaning that GRRM makes the comparison himself. this isn't something interpreted by fans - it is right there, explicitly within the text.

Sansa's desire to reunite with Jon is "sweet," it'd be almost like a dream come true. Jon's "dream was sweet" as well. But "Winterfell could never be his" and seeing her brother once again "of course, could never be" (possible).

And then later on in the text, Jon is offered the chance to become Jon Stark, and have Winterfell in name. Thus his decidedly unsubtle desire (that he dismisses as an entirely impossible dream) is fulfilled by Stannis' offer, even though he eventually rejects it in truth "Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa."

There is also the quote that precedes Jon's "sweet dream," where he fantasises about a beautiful little romance with Ygritte; showing her a flower from the glass gardens, feasting her in the great hall, bathing in the hot pools, and loving beneath the heart tree. This dream is directly connected to Winterfell and is obviously sexually + romantically charged.

So whilst Jon's desire is partially fulfilled (even if he doesn't accept it) can we possibly assume that Sansa's simultaneously unsubtle "that could never be" may also be fulfilled? Since GRRM seems to really be beating us over the head with how 'that could never happen' from Sansa's internal monologue "no one will ever marry me for love" is reiterated multiple times (just you wait sweet one!) and Sansa desiring to reunite with her brother who she has modelled her bastardry after, who is supposedly the only brother left to her, is immediately dismissed by Sansa because she's accepted the fact that she'll never be with her family again, (and that she shall never encounter true love).

The connections only keep connecting!

So to summarise:

  • Jon & Sansa both have "sweet" dreams/desires that connect to Winterfell/family.
  • Jon's dream is sexually/romantically charged, involves a red-headed girl, and establishes Jon's suppressed desires as actually romantic.
  • Both Jon and Sansa are bastards in these contexts.
  • Both Jon and Sansa woefully dismiss these dreams/desires as impossible as "that could never be" and "it could never be his to show."
  • Jon's desire however is later offered on a silver platter by Stannis Baratheon, to which he mulls over and states that he "has always wanted it" (to be his). Though he later refuses Stannis' offer on the basis that "Winterfell belongs to Sansa" - twice over he says this.
  • Jon 'giving' Winterfell to Sansa is in direct contrast to Robb (Sansa's image of an honourably idealistic older brother) flat out rejecting Sansa's claim on the basis of her marriage to Tyrion.
  • Jon thus establishes himself as the only character who respects and protects Sansa's claim. Who does not abuse or exploit it. (Even though he was given the opportunity for it and it's been his innermost desire since childhood.)
  • In a way, this further conveys Jon as Sansa's unspoken, subconscious hero who is protecting her interests and instilling all those heroic ideals (such as the Janos Slynt situation) - though she does not realise it and has accepted that "there are no heroes" at all. But Jon is the true hero, hiding in plain sight.
  • So, whilst Sansa believes there are no heroes, Jon fulfils those ideals. Whilst Sansa believes no one will marry her for love, Jon exists as the embodiment of all the chivalric, romantic ideals that she's so desperately wanted.
  • Can we now assume that Sansa believing that she will essentially never see Jon again as entirely anvilicious as she will in fact see Jon again?

GEORGE I'M IN YOUR WALLS.

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10 things that changed me:

I will never be the same person I was before them.

The only thing that concerns me with the Jonnel reference is that they have no offspring. As a big part of Jonsa is that it would continue House Stark, I'm just curious if there are any thoughts on this aspect of the Jonnel reference. I'm Jonsa until GRRM says otherwise but would love to hear if there are any textual workarounds for this. Thanks!!

The thing is Jonnel Sansa pairing was added at the last moment in the final draft. In the original draft, there was no mention of Jonnel Sansa in the Stark family tree. So when this extra information was added to the final draft, if George had added Jonnel and Sansa’s children in the family tree then the whole tree had to be changed because adding children of Jonnel Sansa will reflect changes in how the future Stark family tree looks like after their generation. The major reason was not so much as to alter what he had already done (the original draft) while also adding a crucial information (Jonnel x Sansa) after.

https://at.tumblr.com/occupyvenus/above-you-see-the-official-stark-family-tree-as/o1y33fz64zy5 The original draft was released to the public a few months before, then the final copy had the new addition

This post goes into more details. Hope it helps.

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fedonciadale

Master meta post

*** On Semi-Hiatus with my tumblr and my writing. I’ve become ill and need long treatment  and I’m not up to writing or engaging with the fandom much. I hope I’ll be up to at least writing fic soon.!***

Master meta post

So I decided to put together some of my metas/ask posts (that tend to become metas occasionally) for convenience and pin this post.

I have not yet linked all (obviously), but I will revisit this post once in a while and add links…

Also for my numerous ask - evolved into metas I usually added some that I think are representative.

ASOIAF - Bookwise

Meta series on “Singers singing songs and their impact on character in ASOIAF”: part 1: Jon

part 2: Sansa

part 3: Daenerys

An ask about Florian and Jonquil (note the excellent additions!)

What is a bittersweet ending? (x, x, x, x)

Politics in ASOIAF/GoT

Northern Independence asks (x, x, x)

Starks

Sansa and Arya (mostly answers to Did Sansa bully Arya? (x, x)

Succession in the North: Was Sansa disinherited (x, x, x, x, x, x, x, x)

Targaryens

Shipping:

Show rants:

Catfight at Winterhell: rant, asks (x)

Why the endgame doesn’t make sense: 1 (Bran) , 2 (Tyrion), 3 (Arya), 4 (Sansa), 5 (Jon)

Women:

Women in Westeros and misogyny - Cersei

Women in Westeros and misogyny - Brienne

Comparison of Jonsa with other ships

Jonsa and Jon€rys (my oldest post, Nov 2016)

So called J0nrya foreshadowing (= Jonsa foreshadowing in disguise)

Will there be a Jon€rys baby? (x, x, x, x, x)

Sansa Stark

The Trident incident (x, x)

Arguments against Sansa and “Rickard Forrester” as a rando last minute love interest

Ned and Cat

Literal tropes:

Fairy tales:

Comparisons with Tolkien:

Beren and Luthien: part 1, part 2, part 3

The Girl in Grey:

Various asks on the Girl in Grey (x, x, x, x, x)

DarkDany stuff

Questioning sharply (Dany’s descent into darkness)

Fire and Blood:

Political Jon

Asks about Political Jon (x, x, x)

Other:

Jaime as Hand - Hints in F&B (1, 2)

Crack:

HP Verse:

On redemption arcs: Draco,

My thoughts on : Ginny, Ron

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Arriving at Snow and Leaving Behind Stone...

I was just rereading some bits of Feast and came across something potentially interesting in Alayne’s last chapter…another foreshadowing of Sansa’s reclamation of self, her return north, but also a return to Jon Snow…

The ways in which Jon Snow makes an appearance in this chapter have already been well noted, and are quite clear. First, quite literally:

[..] Oh, and the Night’s Watch has a boy commander, some bastard son of Eddard Stark’s.” “Jon Snow?” she blurted out, surprised. “Snow? Yes, it would be Snow, I suppose.She had not thought of Jon in ages. He was only her half brother, but still…with Robb and Bran and Rickon dead, Jon Snow was the only brother that remained to her. I am a bastard too now, just like him. Oh, it would be so sweet, to see him once again. But of course that could never be. Alayne Stone had no brothers, baseborn or otherwise.
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what about blorbhov from my complicated russian novel though

blorbeaux from my nilihist french plays

blorbón from my weird latin american magical realist novels

blorbug from my kafkaesque short stories

von blorbow from my german sturm und drang novel

Don Blorbo from my opera

błórbżo from my polish poetry

blorbocles from my ancient greek epics

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amarguerite

Mr. Blorby from my Jane Austen novels

Blorbio from my early modern plays

Assembling some more from the notes:

And the kicker:

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lastvalyrian

useless rosetta stone

scalia from my emotional support blue hellsite

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istumpysk

Operation Stumpy Re-Read

AFFC: Cat of the Canals (Arya III) [Chapter 34]

She woke before the sun came up, in the little room beneath the eaves that she shared with Brusco's daughters.
Cat was always the first to awaken.

New name, who dis?

Some of the title changes make sense to me (Sansa, Arya, Theon, Arys, JonCon), while others do not (the Greyjoys, Barristan). Like, is Areo Hotah having an identity crisis or something?

+.+.+

As she was slipping her tunic over her head, Talea opened her eyes and called out, "Cat, be a sweet and bring my clothes for me." She was a gawky girl, all skin and bones and elbows, always complaining she was cold.

So she's you?

Jon could almost see her in that moment, long-faced and gawky, all knobby knees and sharp elbows - Jon VI, ADWD

+.+.+

The day looked to be a rare one, crisp and clear and bright. Braavos only had three kinds of weather; fog was bad, rain was worse, and freezing rain was worst. But every so often would come a morning when the dawn broke pink and blue and the air was sharp and salty. 

But the lemon tree!

Please don't make me look stupid.

+.+.+

Cat sat with her legs crossed, fighting a yawn and trying to recall the details of her dream. I dreamed I was a wolf again. She could remember the smells best of all: trees and earth, her pack brothers, the scents of horse and deer and man, each different from the others, and the sharp acrid tang of fear, always the same. Some nights the wolf dreams were so vivid that she could hear her brothers howling even as she woke, and once Brea had claimed that she was growling in her sleep as she thrashed beneath the covers. She thought that was some stupid lie till Talea said it too.
I should not be dreaming wolf dreams, the girl told herself. I am a cat now, not a wolf. I am Cat of the Canals. The wolf dreams belonged to Arya of House Stark. Try as she might, though, she could not rid herself of Arya.

:)

+.+.+

The wolf dreams were the good ones. In the wolf dreams she was swift and strong, running down her prey with her pack at her heels. It was the other dream she hated, the one where she had two feet instead of four. In that one she was always looking for her mother, stumbling through a wasted land of mud and blood and fire. It was always raining in that dream, and she could hear her mother screaming, but a monster with a dog's head would not let her go save her. In that dream she was always weeping, like a frightened little girl. Cats never weep, she told herself, no more than wolves do. It's just a stupid dream.

Imagine thinking Arya never returns to the riverlands or comes face-to-face with her mother. Can't relate.

+.+.+

"Learn three new things before you come back to us," the kindly man had commanded Cat, when he sent her forth into the city. She always did. Sometimes it was no more than three new words of the Braavosi tongue. Sometimes she brought back sailor's tales, of strange and wondrous happenings from the wide wet world beyond the isles of Braavos, wars and rains of toads and dragons hatching.

Pardon?

+.+.+

"Him of Many Faces."
"And many names," the kindly man had said. "In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him . . . else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?"
"No," she would answer. "All men must die."

Kind of wild there isn't a Daenerys fan on earth who is worried about this constantly appearing in Arya's chapters.

+.+.+

"You lie. You are Cat of the canals, I know you well. Go and sleep, child. On the morrow you must serve."
"All men must serve." And so she did, three days of every thirty. When the moon was black she was no one, a servant of the Many-Faced God in a robe of black and white.

I'm slow, I'm only now noticing she's no one when the moon disappears. Heh.

+.+.+

"Learn three new things before you come back to us," the kindly man had commanded Cat, when he sent her forth into the city. She always did.
[...]
"What do you know that you did not know when you left us?" the kindly man would ask as soon as he saw her. I know that Brusco's daughter Brea meets a boy on the roof when her father is asleep, she thought. Brea lets him touch her, Talea says, even though he's just a roof rat and all the roof rats are supposed to be thieves. 

What about harbor rats? Are they thieves?

I can't tell if all this Brea, Talea, roof rat business is important, so I'm being safe.

+.+.+

Only Braavosi were permitted use of the Purple Harbor, from the Drowned Town and the Sealord's Palace; ships from her sister cities and the rest of the wide world had to use the Ragman's Harbor, a poorer, rougher, dirtier port than the Purple. It was noisier as well, as sailors and traders from half a hundred lands crowded its wharves and alleys, mingling with those who served and preyed on them. Cat liked it best of any place in Braavos. She liked the noise and the strange smells, and seeing what ships had come in on the evening tide and what ships had departed. She liked the sailors too; the boisterous Tyroshi with their booming voices and dyed whiskers; the fair-haired Lyseni, always trying to niggle down her prices; the squat, hairy sailors from the Port of Ibben, growling curses in low, raspy voices. Her favorites were the Summer Islanders, with their skins as smooth and dark as teak. They wore feathered cloaks of red and green and yellow, and the tall masts and white sails of their swan ships were magnificent.

+.+.+

Once in a great while that would make somebody angry, but when it did she had her finger knife. She kept it very sharp, and knew how to use it too. Red Roggo showed her one afternoon at the Happy Port, while he was waiting for Lanna to come free. He taught her how to hide it up her sleeve and slip it out when she had need of it, and how to slice a purse so smooth and quick the coins would all be spent before their owner ever missed them. That was good to know, even the kindly man agreed; especially at night, when the bravos and roof rats were abroad.

Excellent. Please continue your small knife training.

+.+.+

Some days she rolled her barrow past the towers of the mighty to offer baked clams to the guardsmen at their gates. Once she cried her catch on the steps of the Palace of Truth
[...]
Customs officers from the Chequy Port would buy from her, and paddlers from the Drowned Town
[...]
One time, when Brea took to her bed with her moon blood, Cat had pushed her barrow to the Purple Harbor
[...]
Other days she followed the sweetwater river to the Moon Pool.
[...]
But she always returned to the Ragman's Harbor.

Because. . . it's your home?

+.+.+

A dirty orange cat came padding after her, drawn by the sound of her call. Farther on, a second cat appeared, a sad, bedraggled grey thing with a stub tail. Cats liked the smell of Cat. 

Is the dirty orange cat the sad grey cat's mother?

+.+.+

Her favorite was a scrawny old tom with a chewed ear who reminded her of a cat that she'd once chased all around the Red Keep. No, that was some other girl, not me.

:)

+.+.+

A mate on the green galley wolfed half a dozen oysters and told her how his captain had been killed by the Lysene pirates who had tried to board them near the Stepstones. "That bastard Saan it was, with Old Mother's Son and his big Valyrian. We got away, but just."

Whaaatt? What just happened to the timeline? Salladhor Saan spends the majority of ADWD in the north.

Arya is a mile ahead of everyone.

+.+.+

The little Brazen Monkey proved to be from Gulltown, with a Westerosi crew who were glad to talk to someone in the Common Tongue. 

I instantly become obsessed with any ship from Gulltown. Guaranteed you'll see one of them again.

+.+.+

The courtesans of Braavos were famed across the world. Singers sang of them, goldsmiths and jewelers showered them with gifts, craftsmen begged for the honor of their custom, merchant princes paid royal ransoms to have them on their arms at balls and feasts and mummer shows, and bravos slew each other in their names.
[...]
Each courtesan was more beautiful than the last. Even the Veiled Lady was beautiful, though only those she took as lovers ever saw her face.

Congratulations, you just found out why they're so desperate for her to be a courtesan.

+.+.+

Merry claimed the Black Pearl was the most famous courtesan of all. "She's descended from the dragons, that one," the woman had told Cat. "The first Black Pearl was a pirate queen. A Westerosi prince took her for a lover and got a daughter on her, who grew up to be a courtesan. Her own daughter followed her, and her daughter after her, until you get to this one. What did she say to you, Cat?"
"She said 'I'll take three cockles,' and 'Do you have some hot sauce, little one?'" the girl had answered.
"And what did you say?"
"I said, 'No, my lady,' and, 'Don't call me little one. My name is Cat.'

M'lady, Arya.

The first Black Pearl was a pirate queen? I stand corrected, this is totally Arya's endgame.

Anyway, I'm too lazy to look into any of this dragon descendent stuff. I'm going to assume I don't need to know it. Tell me if I do.

One thing I've noticed in this book, is that unlike her older sister who is fast-tracking physical development, Arya is still considered a child in the eyes of other characters.

"He is not a lord," a child's voice put in. "He's in the Night's Watch, stupid. From Westeros." A girl edged into the light, pushing a barrow full of seaweed; a scruffy, skinny creature in big boots, with ragged unwashed hair. - Samwell III, AFFC

+.+.+

"War?" laughed one of them. "What war? There is no war."
"Not in Gulltown," said another. "Not in the Vale. The little lord's kept us out of it, same as his mother did."
Same as his mother did. The lady of the Vale was her own mother's sister. "Lady Lysa," she said, "is she . . . ?"
". . . dead?" finished the freckled boy whose head was full of courtesans. "Aye. Murdered by her own singer."
"Oh." It's nought to me. Cat of the Canals never had an aunt. She never did. 

:)

+.+.+

"You come work with me, Cat," urged Tagganaro as he was sucking mussels from their shells. He had been looking for a new partner ever since the Drunken Daughter put her knife through Little Narbo's hand. "I give you more than Brusco, and you would not smell like fish."
"Casso likes the way I smell," she said. The King of Seals barked, as if to agree. "Is Narbo's hand no better?"
"Three fingers do not bend," complained Tagganaro, between mussels. "What good is a cutpurse who cannot use his fingers? Narbo was good at picking pockets, not so good at picking whores."
"Merry says the same." Cat was sad. She liked Little Narbo, even if he was a thief. "What will he do?"
"Pull an oar, he says. Two fingers are enough for that, he thinks, and the Sealord's always looking for more oarsmen. I tell him, 'Narbo, no. That sea is colder than a maiden and crueler than a whore. Better you should cut off the hand, and beg.' Casso knows I am right. Don't you, Casso?"
The seal barked, and Cat had to smile.

What an amusing exchange.

I'll say no more. If you know, you know.

+.+.+

When Cat slipped inside the brothel, though, she found Merry sitting in the common room with her eyes shut, listening to Dareon play his woodharp. Yna was there too, braiding Lanna's fine long golden hair. Another stupid love song. Lanna was always begging the singer to play her stupid love songs. She was the youngest of the whores, only ten-and-four. Merry asked three times as much for her as for any of the other girls, Cat knew.
[...]
Dareon had once wed the Sailor's Wife, who would only bed with men who married her. 
[...]
The weddings were loud and jolly, with a lot of drinking. Whenever Cat happened by with her barrow, the Sailor's Wife would insist that her new husband buy some oysters, to stiffen him for the consummation. She was good that way, and quick to laugh as well, but Cat thought there was something sad about her too.
The other whores said that the Sailor's Wife visited the Isle of the Gods on the days when her flower was in bloom, and knew all the gods who lived there, even the ones that Braavos had forgotten. They said she went to pray for her first husband, her true husband, who had been lost at sea when she was a girl no older than Lanna. "She thinks that if she finds the right god, maybe he will send the winds and blow her old love back to her," said one-eyed Yna, who had known her longest, "but I pray it never happens. Her love is dead, I could taste that in her blood. If he ever should come back to her, it will be a corpse."

It's tinfoil time, but it's not my tinfoil. Consider me the messenger.

  • Tyrion was born in 273. He married when he was 13. If he had a child with Tysha, the child would be 14.
  • Lanna is the 14-year-old daughter of the Sailor's Wife.
  • Lanna has fine long golden hair.
  • Similar to the name Barra (Robert Baratheon's bastard), you might consider the name Lanna an acknowledgement of House Lannister.
  • In fact, that very idea will appear in this same book.

Lady Graceford, who was large with child, asked the queen's leave to name it Tywin if it were a boy, or Lanna if it were a girl. - Cersei II, AFFC

  • Between Samwell and Arya, we never get a physical description of the Sailor's Wife. Many consider that suspicious, and unlike George R. R. Martin.
  • The Sailor's Wife speaks the Common Tongue of Westeros, and loves Dareon's voice. Tysha was born in the westerlands, and loved to sing.

the Sailor's Wife appeared beside her. "He sings a pretty song," she murmured softly, in the Common Tongue of Westeros. "The gods must have loved him to give him such a voice, and that fair face as well." - Cat of the Canals, AFFC

  • When the Sailor's Wife was a girl no older than Lanna (14 years old), she lost her husband.

My brother unsheathed his sword and went after them, while I dismounted to protect the girl. She was scarcely a year older than I was - Tyrion VI, AGOT

x

I was only thirteen, and the wine went to my head, I fear. The next thing I knew, I was sharing her bed. If she was shy, I was shyer. I'll never know where I found the courage. When I broke her maidenhead, she wept, but afterward she kissed me and sang her little song, and by morning I was in love. - Tyrion VI, AGOT

  • The Sailor's Wife only beds those who marry her.
  • There's lots of drinking when the Sailor's Wife marries. A wine-soaked rest priest often performs the ceremony.
  • Tyrion and Tysha were married by a drunken septon.

The Happy Port sometimes had three or four weddings a night. Often the cheerful wine-soaked red priest Ezzelyno performed the rites. Elsewise it was Eustace, who had once been a septon at the Sept-Beyond-the-Sea. - Cat of the Canals, AFFC

x

Oh, you'd be astonished at what a boy can make of a few lies, fifty pieces of silver, and a drunken septon. - Tyrion VI, AGOT

  • Arya thinks there's something sad about the Sailor's Wife. She doesn't feel this way about any other sex worker she encounters.

She was good that way, and quick to laugh as well, but Cat thought there was something sad about her too. - Cat of the Canals, AFFC

x

She was scarcely a year older than I was, dark-haired, slender, with a face that would break your heart. It certainly broke mine. - Tyrion VI, AGOT

  • The Sailor's Wife's husband is lost to the sea. Tyrion will almost drown in ADWD.
  • Despite losing her true husband, the Sailor's Wife continues to pray for his return.
  • Yna, a sex worker who is also a maegi, tells Arya that the Sailor's Wife's husband is dead, and would only return as a corpse. You often have to read between the lines when it comes to a maegi.
  • Finally,

And the whores were out. River or sea, a port was a port, and wherever you found sailors, you'd find whores. Is that what my father meant? Is that where whores go, to the sea? - Tyrion VI, ADWD

Do whatever you want with this.

+.+.+

It made her angry to see Dareon sitting there so brazen, making eyes at Lanna as his fingers danced across the harp strings. The whores called him the black singer, but there was hardly any black about him now. 
[...]
The only black about him was his boots. Cat had heard him tell Lanna that he'd thrown all the rest in a canal. "I am done with darkness," he had announced.
He is a man of the Night's Watch, she thought, as he sang about some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead. The lady should go kill the ones who killed her prince. And the singer should be on the Wall. 

Tsk, tsk.

Arya, you're not the Justice League. Settle down.

+.+.+

"There's oysters, if anyone is wanting some," and Merry's eyes popped open. "Good," the woman said. "Bring them in, child. Yna, fetch some bread and vinegar."

Another one.

And it will continue into TWOW.

"Might be, but this one is a child."

"I am not," lied Mercy. "I'm a maiden now." - Mercy, TWOW

Maybe courtesan lessons will have to wait.

+.+.+

Cat took her leave of the Happy Port, with a plump purse of coins and a barrow empty but for salt and seaweed. Dareon was leaving too. 
[...]
"What happened to your brother?" Cat asked. "The fat one. Did he ever find a ship to Oldtown? He said he was supposed to sail on the Lady Ushanora."
"We all were. Lord Snow's command. I told Sam, leave the old man, but the fat fool would not listen." The last light of the setting sun shone in his hair. "Well, it's too late now."

No reaction. Add this to the list of things that fly right over her head, lol.

He liked to boast how he was the son of the Lord of the Crossing, not a nephew or a bastard or a grandson but a trueborn son, and on account of that he was going to marry a princess. - Arya X, ACOK

x

Who is Queen Jeyne? Arya wondered briefly. The only queen she knew was Cersei. - Arya X, ASOS

x

"They found her too," said Polliver. "The sister. She's for Bolton's bastard, I hear."

Arya sipped her wine so they could not see her mouth. She didn't understand what Polliver was talking about. Sansa has no other sister. Sandor Clegane laughed aloud. - Arya XIII, ASOS

Less time seeing, more time listening, eh?

+.+.+

"Just so," said Cat as they stepped into the gloom of a twisty little alley.

Arya. Arya.

He probably shouldn't even be in the Night's Watch!

+.+.+

By the time Cat returned to Brusco's house, an evening fog was gathering above the small canal. She put away her barrow, found Brusco in his counting room, and thumped her purse down on the table in front of him. She thumped the boots down too.
Brusco gave the purse a pat. "Good. But what's this?"
"Boots."
"Good boots are hard to find," said Brusco, "but these are too small for my feet."

Bad, bad Arya!

I don't care how hard you try, you can't defend this.

+.+.+

The priests and acolytes had already eaten, but the cook had saved a piece of nice fried cod for her, and some mashed yellow turnips. She wolfed it down, washed the dish, then went to help the waif prepare her potions.
Her part was mostly fetching, scrambling up ladders to find the herbs and leaves the waif required. "Sweetsleep is the gentlest of poisons," the waif told her, as she was grinding some with a mortar and pestle. "A few grains will slow a pounding heart and stop a hand from shaking, and make a man feel calm and strong. A pinch will grant a night of deep and dreamless sleep. Three pinches will produce that sleep that does not end. The taste is very sweet, so it is best used in cakes and pies and honeyed wines. Here, you can smell the sweetness." She let her have a whiff, then sent her up the ladders to find a red glass bottle. "This is a crueler poison, but tasteless and odorless, hence easier to hide. The tears of Lys, men call it. Dissolved in wine or water, it eats at a man's bowels and belly, and kills as a sickness of those parts. Smell." Arya sniffed, and smelled nothing. The waif put the tears to one side and opened a fat stone jar. "This paste is spiced with basilisk blood. It will give cooked flesh a savory smell, but if eaten it produces violent madness, in beasts as well as men. A mouse will attack a lion after a taste of basilisk blood."
Arya chewed her lip. "Would it work on dogs?"
"On any animal with warm blood." The waif slapped her.

Did the waif say that all in the Common Tongue? Wow, Arya's getting her ass kicked by a Millennial in the language learning race.

Jon Arryn died from Tears of Lys, and Weese was killed by his dog who was fed basilisk blood. Let's hope Robert Arryn doesn't make it three for three.

+.+.+

"It is Arya of House Stark who chews on her lip whenever she is thinking. Are you Arya of House Stark?"
"I am no one." She was angry. "Who are you?"
She did not expect the waif to answer, but she did. "I was born the only child of an ancient House, my noble father's heir," the waif replied. "My mother died when I was little, I have no memory of her. When I was six my father wed again. His new wife treated me kindly until she gave birth to a daughter of her own. Then it was her wish that I should die, so her own blood might inherit my father's wealth. She should have sought the favor of the Many-Faced God, but she could not bear the sacrifice he would ask of her. Instead, she thought to poison me herself. It left me as you see me now, but I did not die. When the healers in the House of the Red Hands told my father what she had done, he came here and made sacrifice, offering up all his wealth and me. Him of Many Faces heard his prayer. I was brought to the temple to serve, and my father's wife received the gift."
Arya considered her warily. "Is that true?"
"There is truth in it."
"And lies as well?"
"There is an untruth, and an exaggeration."
She had been watching the waif's face the whole time she told her story, but the other girl had shown her no signs. "The Many-Faced God took two-thirds of your father's wealth, not all."
"Just so. That was my exaggeration."
Arya grinned, realized she was grinning, and gave her cheek a pinch. Rule your face, she told herself. My smile is my servant, he should come at my command. "What part was the lie?"
"No part. I lied about the lie."
"Did you? Or are you lying now?"
But before the waif could answer, the kindly man stepped into the chamber, smiling. "You have returned to us."

I apologize, I considered skipping this, but paranoia got the best of me.

Any thoughts? My gut tells me she's the one who killed her step-mother.

+.+.+

"Just so," said the kindly man. "And the third thing?"
This time she did not hesitate. "Dareon is dead. The black singer who was sleeping at the Happy Port. He was really a deserter from the Night's Watch. Someone slit his throat and pushed him into a canal, but they kept his boots."
"Good boots are hard to find."
"Just so." She tried to keep her face still.

He says the same thing as Brusco, the fishmonger.

"Good boots are hard to find," said Brusco

Is Brusco the kindly man?

+.+.+

"Who could have done this thing, I wonder?"
"Arya of House Stark." She watched his eyes, his mouth, the muscles of his jaw.
"That girl? I thought she had left Braavos. Who are you?"
"No one."
"You lie." He turned to the waif. "My throat is dry. Do me a kindness and bring a cup of wine for me and warm milk for our friend Arya, who has returned to us so unexpectedly."

Don't drink it!

+.+.+

That night she dreamed she was a wolf again, but it was different from the other dreams. In this dream she had no pack. She prowled alone, bounding over rooftops and padding silently beside the banks of a canal, stalking shadows through the fog.
When she woke the next morning, she was blind.

Not a wolf dream. That's a cat dream, Arya.

And I told you not to drink it.

Final thoughts:

No more ship girl until ADWD.

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Why Everyone Hates Sansa, & Why They're All Wrong

Despite the fact that A Song of Ice and Fire is a tale about creeps, weirdos, and literal mass murderers, somehow one of the most controversial and widely disliked characters in the entire series is Sansa Stark.

Sansa is undeniably not a flawless character, but her transgressions and unappealing traits pale in comparison to the vast majority of her compatriots in the world of Westeros. So, in a fictional world populated with some of the worst characters imaginable, how did a tweenage girl who spends most of her time languishing in captivity barely doing anything at all become such a reviled character? And more importantly, how did so many readers and viewers so dramatically misinterpret her character?

There are many reasons that Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire fans seem to dislike Sansa, but honestly, a great deal of the criticisms levied towards her character seem to be driven by massive misinterpretations of her characterization and choices. So what is it that people hate, and why are they totally wrong about it?

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i wish real life had savestates

we had an entire fairly odd parents episode on why this is a bad idea

wait which one was that?

magic watch lets timmy turn back time and try anything as many times as he wants

to be fair i dont remember what it was that made it go wrong

Vicky ended up getting CosmoWatch and Timmy has Wanda become a watch that only works for him as Vicky and Timmy repeatedly mess up the timeline to fuck with each other, usually involving cats. Vicky ends up hit by a school bus.

nvm i take it back. great idea

i just rewatched (pun intended) the episode to see what happened, so yeah as long as it only works for me we good. should we redo this post?

yeah, good idea, sorry for interrupting

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ichinoue
Anonymous asked:

Whilst watching the anime did you at any point think that Ichigo & Rukia could’ve had a chance (since that’s what a lot of ppl that just watched the anime thought would’ve happened) before you read the manga, it’s quite obvious that the anime was biased towards a certain ship. Or was it always Ichihime for you ?

I started with the anime only. I went into it knowing about the ichiruki fandom popularity, and was fully expecting to ship ichiruki. And as I watched the first arc (AotS), I did see a few moments that definitely seemed to be hinting at an IR romance.

...Only to find out later on when I read the manga: all of those moments were anime-only filler. I explain more on that below.

But still, at that point, I was an anime-only fan. And then the next arc, the SS arc, began. And I was confused. Because a majority of the "shippy" moments of the SS arc went to RenRuki and IchiHime instead of IchiRuki. I talked about that more here in this post.

So the ships seemed up in the air to me. Because there were definite romantic IR hints in the first arc (or, so I thought, not realizing they were filler). But IH and RR were now presenting themselves as strong contenders for canon as well.

And then the arrancar arc began and IchiHime came in swinging like a wrecking ball. And the moment Ichigo bowed before Orihime, looked her sincerely in the eyes, and vowed to protect her, I just knew it would be canon.

But I kept in mind that I had only ever seen the anime at that point. And I thought, "well, maybe the anime is distorting things and downplaying IR while playing up IH/RR with fillers."

At which point, I decided to read the manga from the start to see for myself what was filler, and what was canon.

Come to find out, the few moments that I did think were hinting towards an IchiRuki romance?

They were all filler.

Linked below are episodes on crunchyroll with timestamps:

Episode 8 @ 15:05 The random shinigami dude who shows up and accuses Rukia of being in a relationship with Ichigo while blushing i.e. "are you finding pleasure with a human boy?" while she gets all flustered and tells him it's none of his business? Filler. (Literally, the animation team created a whole ass filler character just to tease at some IR romance that didn't exist lmao).

Episode 11 @ 4:10 Orihime watches Ichigo and Rukia run off together at school, followed by Orihime wondering if they're dating? Filler.

Episode 15 @ 17:40 Ichigo and Rukia staring at each other and awkwardly stumbling over their words, as if they're holding back from confessing their feelings, as the sun sets and soft music plays? Filler.

Episode 18 @ 6:34 Ichigo having a flashback to Rukia's glowing face while he thinks to himself "her place is here" (which immediately follows the peptalk Orihime just gave him, which takes away from an important IH moment 🤦‍♀️) Filler.

Episode 22 @ 12:04 Ichigo staring longingly at SS as the sunsets as if he's staring/thinking about Rukia? Filler. (And this moment actually replaced the canon moment of Ichigo offering Orihime a drink while she was healing Jidanbo.)

Episode 146 @ 20:04 Nel getting jealous of Rukia and demanding to know what her relationship is with Ichigo? Filler.

So, when I read the manga, I realized that all of these seemingly romantic shippy ichiruki moments didn't actually exist.

Meanwhile, I was introduced to a lot of canon IchiHime moments I had never seen before in the anime, such as Orihime's feelings for Ichigo being introduced in chapter two, Orihime and Ichigo meeting up on the way to Urahara's house, Ichigo bringing Orihime a drink while she healed Jidanbo, the guys in SS wondering if Orihime has a boyfriend and then saying "definitely" when they see her walking with Ichigo, etc. All of those moments were left out of the anime.

So, essentially, in the first two arcs, the anime added in some heavy-handed filler IchiRuki content, while removing canon IchiHime content.

And by doing so, they effectively bamboozled so many people into thinking IR was romantic and endgame. Especially those who only ever watched the anime and were fooled by all the filler.

The anime got better about all the butchering once the arrancar arc began, but by then, I think it was too late. The damage was already done. So many people had already declared IR as their otp and were reluctant to jump ship--especially to the ship they had already spent so much time bashing.

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Anonymous asked:

What do you think GRRM is trying to say with Sansa and her arc? Some fans say his plans for her changed along the way, but where we are now in the story, what is his purpose with her?

Hi anon!

I think that's a loaded question. Most of George's characters fulfill far more than one purpose, from both Doylist and Watsonian perspectives.

Sansa, at the core, has a romance arc. That much he has confirmed. The original outline would have turned her into a mix of Show! Lyanna and Elia, the consequences of running away recklessly for young love (obligatory disclaimer: no matter what the show says, Lyanna was 15 and Rhaepist was a grown man who took advantage of her in any possible situation it could have gone down. This was not love.) like Lyanna mixed with someone (Jaime turned Cersei) usurping her child, murdering them both like Elia, innocents caught in the game of thrones. Still, related to romance, and her and Joffrey would have been Jon and Outline Arya's complete foils.

We also know he was making stuff up because he was forced to write an outline, he couldn't have sold the book to his publisher otherwise with only around 180 pages written. The outline was him spitballing. It does indicate several elements, such as King Bran was ALWAYS the endgame, D@ny was never a savior, Jon and her were never the Ice and Fire because the title already stood WHILE he at least entertained a Jon/Stark Sister romance as a possible plot point. And which is more palatable to a general modern audience – two people raised as half-siblings and very close to one another falling in love while they still think they're siblings and then find out they are cousins, or accidental incest in a family that regularly practiced a worse degree and (according to Jokerii) fulfills the hero meets heroine trope? The latter. Or why is Jokerys accepted as canon before having ever met despite being more closely related (and far more inbred) while Jon/Sansa are considered disgusting (aside from Sansa being one of the most widely hated characters)? If Jokerys was the plan, he would have said it was. None of that Jon-Arya business.

At the absolute latest, I believe George changed his mind by the time he wrote Arya and Ned's conversation. “No, that's Sansa.” 180 pages may have included Sansa at the Trident (since the book pages clock in at 180 around the end of her chapter, but that doesn't account for editing more in or some out potentially) and that chapter doesn't cast her into such a lovely light. Saying “that's my romantic heroine” could have been suicide if he wanted Sansa's current trajectory from the beginning. AGOT Arya meanwhile is the tomboy trope to a t, and in the nineties would have been accepted instantly. Until that point, a lot of Jon/Sansa foreshadowing could theoretically read as examples for her and Joffrey as foils to Jon and Arya. But he wrote that line, and – at the very latest then – acknowledged Arya had turned into a character incompatible with the romantic arc he had planned for her.

By that point he had also known he was departing significantly from the outline, most likely. Catelyn had already left to go back to Winterfell, and only chapters later she's going to kidnap Tyri0n and venture to the Eyrie, and join Robb from there. She wasn't going north with Bran, much less Arya. Benjen was long-lost beyond the Wall, not still holding to his vows with Jon like in the outline. Tyri0n was meant to befriend both sisters and then fall in love with Arya. He never talks to Arya, and Sansa ends up forcibly married to him, and only after he spends all of AGOT away from King's Landing. And Arya? Her entire arc so far had been about fighting and justice. The necessary thematic beats weren't there, her character traits directed her along a wholly different path.

But it is so intrinsic to RLJ that Jon ends up with a Stark daughter; proof B Jokerys was never the endgame, the parentage reveal complicates, it doesn't solve. Enabling a romance previously off-limits is the only good thing that could come out of Jon being Rhaepist's son, since Bran was meant to be the next king already back then. Kinghood was eliminated as a reward unless he rewrote Bran's endgame, and he put so much effort into it from the moment someone repeatedly stressed to be a Kingslayer commits his first major act in the series and tries to kill him. It's so meaningful to GRRM. Changing that was impossible. But there needed to be a reward! Something to make the resulting pain worth it!

If Arya couldn't do it, thank God he had already created another Stark daughter. Thank God she dreams of romance and chivalry and motherhood. So maybe he fixes some things tonally in later drafts. Maybe he throws in more references to Aemon and Naerys. Maybe he marries Tyri0n to Sansa, and erases all mentions of him befriending Arya by removing Tyrion from the KL equation entirely until Arya is gone from there in ACOK.

So Sansa's arc is all about romance at the core. She's the other princess in the tower, and a subversion of it too. She's the little Disney princess who was wrong genre savvy, and thought Joffrey was the prince but should have looked at the little Cinder-Jon.

But just like most characters, she becomes more. She takes on a rulership arc; she watches at first and absorbs. She learns from good and bad examples both and decides she wants to make the people love her. Anti-Cersei in every meaningful way, or is Cersei Anti-Sansa? Suggesting either is really a disservice to both of them, but my point stands. Sansa goes from the pawn to the player, to someone using power herself and wants to do so for good.

She becomes one of the biggest examples of the narrative creed asking to break the cycle of violence. Tyri0n and D@ny both turn from abused to abuser, Arya damn near goes off the rails, but Bran and Sansa? They suffer so much, but still they want to do good in the world, still have dreams, don't take it out on innocents.

Bran is exposed much earlier to struggles with power (mystically, mostly) because he is meant to sit on the IRON Throne (although the chance of that particular throne surviving D@ny is less than 0, lmao), the element the entire game of thrones revolves around, whoever sits in that damn chair. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, so Bran needs to prove he won't abuse it to be considered an adequate endgame ruler, and gets those batshit insane powers he has. This way he proves that while the temptation exists (hence the whole thing with Hodor), he can overcome it, and will be better for it. Foreshadowing the Tax Policy for the win!

Sansa on the other hand is meant to experience life at utter rock bottom, so she will empathize. She was a privileged girl, now she's not as much anymore. Sansa's been a hostage, an unwilling bride, a bastard without her real name, a victim of several incidents of molestation, orphaned, alone in the world. She has some more idea how the world works, but it hasn't beaten her down, now she wants to improve it. Sansa wants to do good. She doesn't just want power so this never happens to her again or out of a superiority complex, like D@ny. She would want to use it to change the world for the better, genuinely, and is willing to put in the work for it same as Bran.

Sansa is the one who would plant trees in the ash left behind by those who just wanted raw power and abused it to their hearts' contents.

Sansa, in short, has two major purposes in the series.

1) a romance with Jon as the Stark daughter he first couldn't but suddenly can have

2) one of the two endgame rulers who will break the cycle of violence, the proof that Westeros will be better off after the series, after all this disaster of at least seven books, that things are finally changing at least a little for a little while. The rebuilders after the storm. Peacemakers and peacekeepers rather than warmongers.

Maybe part of it was convenience when he realized Arya outgrew his plans. But his main message with Sansa, whether he changed his plans or just made stuff up that sounded palatable to his publisher, so he could sell the series and finish it unbothered while writing according to his real plans, is definitely part 2. She fulfills some other purposes and tropes, deconstructs others.

But at the heart, her arc is meant to lead her into a leadership role of peace and kindness, to make Westeros a better place.

Thanks for the question!

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