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Killian Whump

@killian-whump / killian-whump.tumblr.com

a blog mostly about Colin O'Donoghue and Whump
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Anonymous asked:

Would treating a prisoner like an animal (limiting clothing, making them wear a collar, sleep in a cage, eat bland food out of bowls on the floor, and crawl everywhere) have any long term physical affects on the prisoner? Or could it be done purely as humiliation so long as the captors are being careful not to physically harm the person? If it would cause harm, would you qualify it as visible or clean torture?

Yesthis would cause someone harm.

However-there’s a huge amount of difference in what ‘like an animal’can imply.

Let’s…take dogs because Westerners seem to like them a lot. It’s notuncommon for me to hear about people treating their dogs like kidshere. An older couple I know has a Labrador and it’s hardly everleft alone, lavished with attention and toys. They never hit it orraise their voices and it’s remarkably friendly well trainedanimal.

Icontrast this to some of the dogs I saw growing up at home. It wasextremely common for animals to be hit and they were often mistreatedin other ways. There was huskey kept in a compound near us. A huge,furry, arctic creature that needed to be walked at 4-5am because theheat easily reached 30-45oCduring the day. There was a ‘puppy’ that a family friend found onthe streets. It wasn’t fully grown and was bigger than me, evenwhen starving. It’s ears had been clipped to erect points. It hadlikely been breed to attack humans.

WhatI’m getting at here is that there’s a good chance ‘like ananimal’ means lessharm to you then it does to me. And thank you for giving me someexamples of what you want it to mean, that’s very helpful.

There’sa bit of debate about what counts as ‘physical’ injury in thiscontext.

Thesymptoms torture causes are a result of measurable physical changesin the brain. I tend to talk about this as psychological damagebecause I think that’s the terms most writers and people wouldunderstand it most easily. Butit’s causedby physical injury.

Infact O’Mara describes it as a form of organ failure. And this is aguy who specialises in neuroscience. Which I feel gives a lot ofweight to that description.

WhatI’m driving at here is that you could argue, based on soundscientific study and the opinion of experts, that any tortureincluding ‘humiliation’ causes profound physical injury.

It’sjust not the kind of injury we (the general public) are used totreating as physical injury.

Buthow visible and obvious the damage would be probably depends on howlong this goes on for.

Continuallycrawling would cause joint injuries and repetitive strain injuries.If it went on for long enough it could effect the structure ofskeletal muscles and make it difficult for the character to walkupright. It could even effect the shape of the bone.

AndI think a lot of the injuries from this scenario would be a bit likethat: obvious due to expression and movement rather than obvious inthe sense of visible scarring.

Itwouldn’t necessarily be obvious what the causeof these differences was.

Soa character seeing a survivor that had been kept like this forseveral years would probably see something was ‘wrong’. They’dsee a character who struggles to stand, struggles to walk. They mightnotice behaviours to do with sensory issues- the survivor mightfidget a lot, pick at clothes, they might layer on a lot of clothes(to compensate for feelings of cold or physical discomfort). Theywould probably appear physically unhealthy, malnourished, pale andill. There might be small injuries, bruising, sores and patches ofirritated skin.

Dependingon the observer they might read those signs as symptoms of physicalillness or mental health problems, or poverty ratherthen systematic abuse. Or they might just not notice, especially if asurvivor is trying to conceal their impairments. For example if thesurvivor knows they can’t stand upright and walk unaided they mightchoose to remain seated through the entire interaction.

Youcould argue that that is a clean torture. The injuries are notvisibly obvious. They’re not injuries that the average person onthe street would see and think ‘that’s torture, no argument’.

Youcould also argue it’s a scarring torture. Because the injuries arethe sort of things that courts see as ‘provable’. They’re alsoinjuries that are unlikely to be caused in combination by anythingotherthen abuse.

I’llcontrast that with some things that are definitely clean tortures togive you an idea what I mean. The swelling and sores stress positionsoften cause can alsobe caused by disease, malnourishment and inactivity. Proving in courtthose injuries are from torture means ruling out every other possiblecause. And the obvious signs of starvation can be treated similarly:extreme weight loss can be due to disease and stress.

Atorture survivor can be seen to be chronically malnourished anddangerously underweight butthat still isn’t necessarily court-quality ‘proof’ they weredeliberately starved. Because it could be due to so many othercauses.

Ithink it would be a good idea to cycle back to the first question nowbecause I haven’t quite covered all the possible injuries this kindof abuse could cause.

Limitingclothing can easily become a temperature torture and lead tohypothermia. Especially in a cold climate or if the victim is wet forany reason.

Constantlywearing a collar can increase the risk of strangulation. If thecharacter isn’t usually restrained using the collar then I thinkthe likelihood of death is pretty low. But it’s there and it’sworth mentioning. If they’re restrained using the collar, ie aleash connected above their head, then there’s a pretty high riskof accident strangulation and death.

There’sa reason that people using collars and leashes in a BDSM contextusually don’t leave restrained partners alone.

Cages,like crawling, can have serious long term effects on a person’sability to move normally. Ifthey’re too small.

Picturewhat you had in mind. If the character can’t lie flat, stretch outtheir limbs and stand up straight then it’s probably too small. Ifthey’re lying down inside with their legs and arms bent at alltimes that’s going to combine with the crawling to effect theirmovement and muscles in the long term.

Ithinkthis damage isn’t permanent (I’m not a doctor, double check bylooking up repetitive strain injuries). I believe it can be treatedwith physiotherapy and gradual recovery of full mobility would bepossible.

Thecombination of limited clothing (with the possible temperaturetorture that means), the cage and crawling means that I think longterm joint problems and chronic pain in the joints would be prettylikely here.

Thelack of clothing combined with the cage could also lead to sleepdeprivation which can cause a lot of long term problems. Youcan read about it here.

Thefood couldresult in undernourishment but wouldn’t necessarily do so.

Whenpresented with bland and unappealing food- well people can startstarving themselves. Whichis also incredibly bad for people.

Thiscombination of tortures isn’t necessarily lethal. It can be,especially over a period of years, but if the captors are trying tokeep the victim alive then I think that would be possible with littleeffort.

Butthey would cause a lot of long term problems, physical as well aspsychological. Sleep deprivation (a possible effect here) can causeheart problems in the long term. Long term starvation, even at a lowlevel, can cause problems with the immune system making disease andinfection more likely.

Ithink joint pain would still be pretty likely if a character was keptlike this for a month. Over the same period consistently poor sleepincreases the likelihood of a huge range of health problems.

I’dalso suggest thinking about the hygiene facilities in your set up.Because the less provision for that there is the more likely deathfrom disease is going to be; it’s the combination of poor sleep andpoor eating both suppressing the immune system while the character isexposed to pathogens.

Soif you’re picturing this as something the character is trapped infor a prolonged period think of a way to deal with waste.

Ihope that helps. :)

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Anonymous asked:

Are there situations where giving pain medication (or sufficient pain medication) would not be possible, even in a medical setting? I mean, it would be a shame to stop torturing a character once they get on an ambulance or arrive at the hospital.

Definitely. Lots of people have allergies to certain medicine - one of my friends almost died when a hospital gave her morphine,,, she had no idea she was allergic to it.

Alternatively, it could be that a character is prone to addiction, in which case, prescription-grade painkillers would also probably be a bad idea.

I am not a medical professional, this is just from personal experience/research. If any of the other admins would like to add on, please do.

-Admin J

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From a medical professional’s standpoint, I’d be worried about a couple of things when giving someone pain medication:

One is vital signs. Pain medications can screw with several things that could be dangerous for a victim already in distress. For example, any opioid pain medication (morphine, dilaudid, oxycodone, codeine, and most famously heroin) is notorious for depressing respiration. People tend to breathe less and more shallowly when given pretty much any opioid, so if the victim is already having difficulty breathing or is losing consciousness, giving an opioid could send them into respiratory arrest.

This could actually work for your story, though, since the way to save them would be giving them the antidote naloxone (brand name Narcan). Naloxone very quickly strips away all opioids from their receptors, including those naturally occurring in the human body. Whatever pain they’re in pre-opioid? Double it.

Meanwhile, some IV painkillers (most notably dilaudid) also decrease blood pressure. BP already below 100/50? Probably not going to be safe to give even in a medical setting. And major bleeding or conditions causing shock are probably going to drop BP below safe levels already, so it would be dangerous to risk it.

Two is that pain meds can mask painful conditions and could cause a change in mental status. In polytrauma situations like motor vehicle accidents or major falls, you wouldn’t give strong pain medicine until a thorough trauma assessment had been completed, lest you miss something because the patient couldn’t say an action caused them pain.

It would also be difficult to differentiate a change in mental status caused by a painkiller’s sedating effect and one caused by a head injury or shock. If there was any chance a change in mental status could be a key clue for assessment or treatment, you wouldn’t want to give a pain medication that could confound these findings until you were certain what the problem was.

For lesser injuries that don’t involve shock, even medications like aspirin or other NSAIDS (ibuprofen, naproxen, etc…) could still have an unwanted side effect that make it more difficult to stop bleeding. Tylenol (acetaminophen) also has a hard-stop upper dose limit (4gm in 24 hours) before it becomes toxic. So overdose in non-opioid pain medication can be an issue if the victim has already taken over-the-counter stuff.

-Ross

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estelkenobi

Reblogging because I know ALL of this information will be useful in the future. Spread the love, whumpers! Knowledge is power! Power to maim with better accuracy! Mwahaha! 

“Power to maim with better accuracy” should be the mantra of Whump Writers everywhere XD

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