Not a Monster at All

Not a Monster at All by book sandwhich

Adrien Agreste overhears a conversation he shouldn’t, and a revelation sends him falling onto the balcony of the only person he can trust: his good friend (?) Marinette Dupain-Cheng.

Takes place sometime after the first two episodes of season 5!

Words: 5687, Chapters: 2/?, Language: English

Read Here: https://archiveofourown.org/works/40022769

The amount of people reacting legitimately surprised by SentiAdrien being basically made canon in and after "Risk" is honestly very fascinating to me. I don't mean to be rude just genuinely curious but what story element did "Risk" provide that "Ephemeral" for example didn't? If anything I would have said that "Ephemeral" made SentiAdrien as good as canon confirmed, but somehow the episode where Gabriel visibly forced Adrien into an akumatization through the direct influence of the control ring wasn't as convincing for alot of people as "Risk"

I would genuinely like to know WHY. What's the difference between these two episodes that is so much more convincing for people that I just dont see myself?

While I’ve been convinced of the Sentidrien theory for awhile now, I can see why Risk was more convincing than Ephemeral.

For starters, that scene in Ephemeral - while it did certainly look like Shadowmoth forcing Adrien to his will, he DID already have the akumatization mask. Only two people in the entire show have ever broken out of akumatization at that stage, have ever managed to defy Gabriel’s will, so while Adrien’s acquiescing in that scene definitely looked unusual, he WAS already having his will broken by the regular process of akumatization, and it wasn’t completely crazy for people to suggest that Adrien being under Gabriel’s control there was due to the akumatization, not the ring. Though there was never a really good explanation given for why ELSE the camera would make sure to focus in on Gabriel making that twisting motion where the ring would be (I never really bought the “he’s self-soothing” idea, especially with how this scene was framed).

Ephemeral did also have an earlier scene with Gabriel fiddling with the ring and ordering Adrien to make that speech and not leave, but again, while it looked very suspicious, it could also, maybe, possibly be him just being used to giving akumatization speeches and treating his son like one of his akuma victims as a result, and Adrien complying because well... his father is pressuring him, and Nathalie’s continued urging to continue with the ceremony.

Risk though? Risk not only had more clear-cut examples that couldn’t be as plausibly excused away as representing other things, but it kept on hammering its message incessantly.

1. Gabriel giving the ring to Nathalie, entrusting her with it and his son. If the ring was merely a sentimental object with no other power, it doesn’t make sense that he’d give it to her like this, and the wording implies that entrusting her with Adrien and entrusting her with the ring are connected.

2. Adrien being that upset, that ready to tell Gabriel off... and then getting that meek when Gabriel demands he changes. Normally Adrien would at least protest for a moment. Here, he doesn’t, it just seems like all the will and fight is snuffed out of him instantly.

3. Adrien telling Marinette that it feels like some “force” is stopping him from speaking out against his father, and he doesn’t even know why.

4. Felix telling Adrien that freedom is something he makes for himself, and that while Adrien can’t defy his father, HE can. Though this one is far weaker evidence than most of the rest (everyone knows that Gabriel determines what Adrien does, and he’d have trouble standing up to Gabriel even without the ring), it still follows along with the general idea of the Sentimonster Adrien theory.

5. Then the strongest evidence - that scene where Gabriel tries to order Adrien (well, Felix pretending to be Adrien) into submission, and falters when he realizes that he’s still glaring at him determinedly, with Gabriel’s face falling and looking almost scared, looking vulnerable when he realizes he isn’t giving in, and rubbing his hand where his ring used to be. And then Nathalie conspicuously pushing up her glasses, giving the audience a good look at the ring she’s wearing, and giving a similar order, which Felix obeys - still not totally sure whether Felix was faking that or genuine, but I’m betting on faking and he just knows that Adrien’s a sentimonster. 

Big difference with this scene versus Ephemeral - there’s no other plausible way for Gabriel to think he can mind control Adrien here. He’s not in the process of akumatizing him. Plus, he outright FALTERS when he realizes that “Adrien” isn’t caving in like he expects, rubbing where the ring used to be, indicating that he draws some connection between “Adrien not obeying” and “him not having the ring”. But then when Nathalie DOES give him an order, he obeys, much like how he usually obeys Gabriel - and Nathalie isn’t surprised by this, that he gives in to her when he wasn’t with Gabriel. She seems to expect it.

6. Kagami’s whole rant about how Adrien needs to take control of his own life, not just follow orders, that he’s his father’s puppet and he needs to dare to cut his strings. It’s pretty on-the-nose.

A lot of these could be handwaved away individually, or at least not be seen as conclusive, but all of them TOGETHER in one episode? The sheer weight of it makes Adrien being anything but a sentimonster unlikely. Heck, at this point the only sliver of a possibility I could see would be that the rings have mind control powers inherently, not due to being an amok - but that seems unlikely at best. I do think that the rings absolutely, 100%, just from what we’ve seen in canon without taking into account outside sources, have to be able to force Adrien to magically submit. 

I've finally figured out why part of the anti-sentiAdrien theory bothers me.

There's this not-insignificant facet of the argument that basically boils down to "Adrien is a rare example of good representation of a child in an abusive household and it would be harmful to take away that representation." And on the surface, this seems reasonable.

But the this is that it demands for an individual piece of media to conform to a certain vision because the world as a whole sucks.

I, and many others, have said time and time and time again that the sentiAdrien theory is not harmful to anyone and everyone in a situation like Adrien, and for some people, it can be quite valuable. And in many cases, anti-sentiAdrien theorists will agree with that.

They'll acknowledge that individuals must learn to set boundaries with triggering media. They'll agree that some people feel validated by the sentiAdrien theory. They'll nod when someone points out that Adrien still represents, in terms of trauma response, many kids in abusive situations.

But they say that the theory shouldn't be true -- rarely anymore that it can't be true, just that it shouldn't -- because taking away that representation would be harmful.

They have identified a real problem and put the burden of the solution on individuals rather than acknowledging that this is a cultural issue which needs to be dealt with on a higher level.

Yes, there's an issue with the normalization of abuse, but that's not what I'm talking about because I think everyone is on the same page about that. I'm talking about the fact that they see this void of representation and rather than saying, "There needs to be more," they say, "This one needs to be perfect."

Maybe they aren't saying that it needs to be perfect. Maybe they're saying that it can't be invalidating or triggering to anyone who previously resonated with it. Maybe they're saying that it should be as realistic as possible so as not to confuse children. Maybe they're saying this, maybe they're saying that.

Ultimately, they're shutting down points about how validated people have felt about the theory and not working to an actual solution, which would be more representation for everyone. Diverse representation: representation where the abuse is realistic, representation where the abuse magical, representation where the characters being abused are in situations that no one (or hardly anyone) can relate to, representation where the abuse is physical but not emotional or financial and emotional but not physical.

More representation. Diverse representation. That is always the goal.

And this is a problem to be tackled at a higher cultural level. You can't blame creators for creating a story that does not validate every single possible person ever (especially because people often feel validated by mutually exclusive things). What you can do is support conversations about abuse in kids shows (and yes, that does and can mean supporting Miraculous, even if they go ahead with the sentiAdrien theory), it means demanding that execs look at these issues more widely, it means criticizing shows that brush off and apologize for abuse apologism, it means supporting creators that have been ignored because the topics they wanted to cover were "too intense" for kids shows....

It means a lot of things. And it doesn't mean breaking down one example of a show that can't possibly cover everything either way.

If there isn't enough representation of victims of child abuse in children's TV, the answer is not to conform one example into the "perfect" vision of it. The answer is to get more representation. And asking for individuals to do that when they were never telling that story in the first place, and the story they are telling is quite validating to many victims of child abuse, seems really counter productive to me.

fuck it I'm putting my tags in

Good representation is diverse representation. Always.

Also - just to add one tidbit. Representation happens gradually. SheRa was only possible because of Korra (though Korra was criticized heavily at the time for not doing enough). Owlhouse is only possible because of SheRa and Steven Universe paved the way for them.

When a show takes the risk of representation and then doesn’t execute it perfectly, and gets a ton of criticism for all the areas where they didn’t go far enough or didn’t do it perfect enough, will that inspire future media to go further? Or will it discourage anyone else from trying?

I do think being critical of media is important. But I also do think we should wait and see how it plays out first! So much of the criticism of this theory are for how it COULD be done horribly, but we haven’t even seen it yet! So... I don’t know what my point is here.

Anyway! Thank you for this. You’ve articulated something that I was feeling but couldn’t put my finger on how to say.

I am happy to say that I think the discourse on this has continued to improve and that I hope it continues to do so.

Thank you for adding to the conversation.

and did the twin flame bruise paint you blue?

HI, this is me as someone who hated and denied this possibility forever accepting that there’s a lot of evidence for the senti Adrien theory these days. When Gabriel manipulated both Adrien and Plagg through rings I could not stop thinking about it. As far as the theory, I don’t think Adrien is less than human if he is a senti. He just needs to be in control of his own amok & the peacock miraculous needs to be in good hands. I’m rooting for his freedom more than anything else in this show. ko-fi

HI EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS POST

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hear me out: adrien just swallows the graham de vanily ring. problem solved.

I think having it surgically implanted would be better. This would prevent it from passing through. :) 

anyways i said it before and i’ll say it again if you think adrien being a senti makes his trauma any less valid or his abuse any less real i think that says more about you than about what the show is saying he’s always been treated as real from everybody except for gabriel from day 1 and there was a whole episode about it so idk what else to tell you

You just said it right there. He’s been treated as real by everyone (who didn’t know he was a sentimonster) except by the very person who knew. Sorry but if he ends up being a sentimonster it DOES invalidate his abuse. Gabe treated him like that because he knew he wasn’t human.

lmao this is such a bad take i’m not even going to try and reason with you abusers who don’t think their abuse is abuse are still abusing byeeee

For the love of god, people. I may hate the sentimonster Adrien theory but can we please stop shitting on people who enjoy it? There is no moral weight to this! Fuck, sentimonster Adrien could even be considered an allegory for how abusers see the people they abuse—which would be, you know, pretty helpful to kids in abusive situations? (In fact, I know a few people in this fandom who HAVE been abused who find Sentimonster Adrien validating. THAT made me rethink my perspective on this whole thing.)

I was literally the first person in this fandom to say it invalidated the abuse and you know what? I was wrong. The thing I said back then was incorrect and harmful and even though the theory gives me the screaming heebies I am begging people to stop acting like people who like it are bad people. Sentimonster Adrien doesn’t invalidate his abuse. And we need to stop saying it does.

I feel like this is a Competing Representation Needs thing. Some people want to see realistically portrayed abuse that is literally just abuse. It is abuse because the abused is human, and the abuser is human, and humans can do really bad things and suffer at the hands of bad people.

But like, some people, and I think especially kids, may find something a little bit more magical – if more angsty – helpful? Like. I dunno, I feel like I’ve seen people assert that Adrien is the one and only abused character in cartoons who’s portrayed respectfully, which is blatantly untrue. Zuko (and Azula) from ATLA, Hunter from TOH, Soren and Claudia from TDP. All of those characters suffered parental abuse, and it wasn’t by means of magic – I mean, the magic in the world certainly wasn’t unrelated to the abuse any of them suffered, but fundamentally, they all suffer most from emotional abuse and manipulation. Their existence was not inherently a symbol of abuse.

And I think for a lot of people – and you know what, kids! kids do not always understand abuse, and being able to explain things like bodily autonomy and emotional control in terms of a sentimonster may really help them – but a lot of people want to see their issues as something that can be important. What they went through can be magical, if angsty. It can be part of the larger plot. Some people want to see their trauma portrayed integrated into the magic of the world. Yeah, trauma ultimately happens because people suck, and no one’s denying that. But a fantastical integration of what you went through into a fantastical world can be massively validating. It says “you’re heard, you matter, we are thinking about your trauma and weaknesses with the same depth that we think about your strengths and goodness.”

Yeah, some people might hurt seeing Adrien go through a literal deprivation of autonomy. It may conjure up trauma and pain.

But others may heal from it. And you do not have the right to tell them that their healing is wrong because it has the chance to hurt someone who can opt out of watching this show at any time.

anyways i said it before and i’ll say it again if you think adrien being a senti makes his trauma any less valid or his abuse any less real i think that says more about you than about what the show is saying he’s always been treated as real from everybody except for gabriel from day 1 and there was a whole episode about it so idk what else to tell you

You just said it right there. He’s been treated as real by everyone (who didn’t know he was a sentimonster) except by the very person who knew. Sorry but if he ends up being a sentimonster it DOES invalidate his abuse. Gabe treated him like that because he knew he wasn’t human.

lmao this is such a bad take i’m not even going to try and reason with you abusers who don’t think their abuse is abuse are still abusing byeeee

For the love of god, people. I may hate the sentimonster Adrien theory but can we please stop shitting on people who enjoy it? There is no moral weight to this! Fuck, sentimonster Adrien could even be considered an allegory for how abusers see the people they abuse—which would be, you know, pretty helpful to kids in abusive situations? (In fact, I know a few people in this fandom who HAVE been abused who find Sentimonster Adrien validating. THAT made me rethink my perspective on this whole thing.)

I was literally the first person in this fandom to say it invalidated the abuse and you know what? I was wrong. The thing I said back then was incorrect and harmful and even though the theory gives me the screaming heebies I am begging people to stop acting like people who like it are bad people. Sentimonster Adrien doesn’t invalidate his abuse. And we need to stop saying it does.

I've been seeing this sort of argument about how Adrien needs to be turned into a human or needs LB to help him and I am just going to come out and say it.

Adrien doesn't need to be a "real boy". He just needs to be Adrien.

He's done amazing things with who he is and honestly I think he can continue being a senti and continue being his own self without the needs of Ladybug or his father or anyone else to dictate who he should be.

Honestly, that sort of rhetoric screams ableism and queer-phobia in general in that it implies there is only one specified way of existing and that in order for Adrien to exist and live a proper life he has to act and conform to a certain standard that other's hold him to.

The reality is that, if he is a sentibeing, he always has been and thus all of his bravery and kindness and pure Adrien self that captured our hearts. I actually think making him a "real boy" would be a disservice to his character.

What I want him and LB to figure out is how to give him back complete and utter control, using their combined wit, creativity, and knowledge to break the tether that binds Adrien to those rings and to his dad.

My theory for Adrien's Cataclysm power-up is that it will break the link between a miraculous holder and the creature they control, essentially the ability to destroy chains and binds.

The best scenario that I want most is for Adrien to, after defeating his dad and breaking those chains, hold the twin rings in his hand and turn them into dust himself showing that he is and will be his own person, even if the definition is not the one we would normally associate with it.

I didn’t want that theory to be real, but they unofficially confirmed it through the insistence they put on showing Gabriel twitching his ring each time he commands and orders his son around during this episode. And it just felt like a shortcut throughout the entire episode. 

Sorry to all of you (including myself) who didn’t want that theory to be a cannon thing. Adrien has ultimately no control of his actions or what he wants until he takes back both twin rings from his family. And his existence is up to whoever is in possession of the Peacock Miraculous. 

I hate the sentimonster theory cause yeah. Not going into that.

But if this is actually a thing, and not just Gabriel touching his wedding ring cause “everything is for Emilie” then here’s how I can see it going down ideally:

Adrien is a sentimonster. Boo. But moving past that, instead of him getting the rings and being basically his own master, what if instead Ladybug makes him a real boy. Good ol Pinocchio style. She has the power of creation at her literal fingertips. She is only restricted by her own imagination. What if, to save Adrien, she just breaks those chains and he’s as real as he’s ever been. Fully autonomous and not beholden to a master or holder?

Idk that’s how I’d like to see it going down and how I think would make a children’s show less existentially terrifying.

Except that, like it was explained by Master Fu at the end of Robustus, even good intentioned wishes like one to end wars come at a price. So ever since S2, we know the wish will have consequences of equal value so the world maintains its balance.

So, if Senti!Adrien gets turn into a real boy through the wish, then someone else will be turn into a sentibeing in exchange. 

I prefer the idea that Adrien learns to master the subtlties of the power of destruction and destroys his connection to the amok (only limits are the ones self imposed, so why can’t he destroy the connection without destroying himself), and is thereby free of it and of his abusers. And he freed himself! Rather than was saved.

Why the sentiadrien theory scares us...and why it might actually be a wonderful narrative for therapeutic healing

So when I'm not shit posting on tumblr or flailing about ml with the @gamma-squad, I'm a therapist working with kids Mari and Adrien's age. One of the reasons I was drawn to this show was how amazing it works as a metaphor for mental health and therapeutic healing.

Originally when I heard the sentiadrien theory, I was terrified because with it were all these painful complications I hadn't considered...

But when I really sat down and thought about it, I figured out how if done well sentiadrien has the potential to make Adrien's story more compelling than anything we might have thought... I also find it fascinating how the fandom is reacting to it and how it might be related to the way a fan handles grief, mental health, and the loss of hope.

I wanted to take the time to explore why the sentiadrien hurts some fans so much, to the point where they can't accept it. I also wanted to offer reassurance to those who do, because I truly think the sentiadrien theory is the best theory we have that will allow Adrien to heal and finally be free.

I'm not here to convert anyone into believing this theory, I only want to provide reassurance to those who feel pain because of it.

sentimonster adrien AU but it’s optimistic & fun instead of angsty:

bonus (sorry it’s so rushed haha):

music can’t save you from this one, luka

(LISTEN to me, zag. LISTEN to me. this is a JOKE. this is a CRACK prediction of where season 4 is headed. this isn’t an ACTUAL prediction. you hear me? this isn’t… ACTUALLY what i think is going to happen. because it wont. …right? right????)

Adrien just outted his father as Hawkmoth... and didn’t even know it!  Luka needs more training to deal with this shit. I’m not sure if he should talk to Adrien or Ladybug first. But man... it’s a lot!  

Now I'm scared but in a good way yeah

I think Astruc just likes to stir the pot. ‘Cause like both sides of this debate are showing different screenshots of his tweets to support their side of the argument. Like didn’t he just post two days ago that Miraculer’s cataclysm was real and that we were all overthinking everything? Whatever the show is planning, I think he’s just fucking laughing his ass off in the mean time.

And can I just say, this artwork is positively fucking gorgeous?!

“Adrien is a Sentimonster theory”

If Gabriel could control him why would he lie to him?

Okay, but what if Adrien is a sentimonster, and Gabriel doesn’t know?!  (Seriously, I think we’re being trolled, but whatevs!)