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The Honourable Miss Fisher

@justmissfisher / justmissfisher.tumblr.com

21 | just some place to rant about the marvelous miss fisher & co., do some analysis, comparison, or just fawn over this amazing series & these characters | this is a sideblog - main blog: wikipedie, following from there if I do
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reblogged

i know this show is set in 1920′s but it doesn’t make it any less heartbreaking. i can only imagine dottie’s disappointment and quiet pain at hearing all of this. (which really is the pain of so many women in history). i can only imagine how painful it is to hear the man you love, the one who proclaims you’re the love of his life, also say that he’s very happy that you have to obey him, regardless of what you think or want to do. and in fact hugh has been quite dismissive of dottie on too many occasions.

it’s just heartbreaking for me, that’s all, even if i believe they’ll talk about it and resolve it somehow

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movrings

Hm I always interpreted his “I like that view” as a lie, so he would be accepted in the catholic church

Sadly, I cannot interpret it that way, for a few reasons.

1. His smile is way too genuine, and he’s way too oblivious to Dottie’s discomfort. I think that if he were lying, he would try to reassure Dot in some way. Frankly, I’m quite disappointed that they haven’t had any kind of conversation about it; that Dottie hasn’t brought it up. He didn’t give her any sort of “I’m joking, btw” look, or anything.

2. Even if we were to ignore the above argument, he genuinely looks disappointed when Father O’Leary (I hope I’m saying the name correctly) rectifies the saying, telling him that they’re in modern times now. Not in an angry way, but definitely in a “Darn! I had really hoped!” way. Otherwise, he’d look as gleeful as Dottie does.

3. One of their main arguments (which brought their break up for a short while) was that Dottie still wanted to live and work with Miss Fisher, that she didn’t want to give up her independence for him just to make a family. He has a proper conversation with Jack about that, where he said he thought she’d want that. Jack tells him that that’s how a modern woman is. And Hugh doesn’t say he’ accepts it, but that he’ll try. He’s willing to try for Dottie, but he was obviously glad to have found a ‘loophole’ where Dottie had to go…probably do wifely (and motherly) things and not fuss around with Miss Fisher. (granted, he was mostly concerned about her safety, but he still disregarded her enough, treated her kind of like a child that needs protecting at all costs. And Dottie has proved she’s more than able to protect herself).

Well I can’t disagree with these points. I guess it was simply wishful thinking of me… and you’re right there should have been a conversation between Hugh and Dottie about this!

@justmissfisher nope you didn’t put me off at all. I like these discussions :)

I’m going to disagree with you @justmissfisher though I think you make excellent points, and if this were someone other than Hugh and Dot I might agree. 

Most of what Hugh does is motivated by his love for Dot. When she gives him back his ring because she’s torn about giving up her work, he is very upset but I don’t think it’s because he truly wants a stay-at-home, obedient wife.

He tells Jack that he thought Dotty would be happy to stop working and make a home for them but that “she’s not happy” and he doesn’t know what to do about it. The model he’s envisioned for their marriage is the only one he knows and  he’s struggling to understand where to go now that she’s turned it on it’s head. He wants her to be happy, but her happiness doesn’t fit with his picture of their life together. 

To his credit he doesn’t tell her it’s his way or the highway. He gives them both time to work things out and I then eventually comes around to her way of thinking. He goes ahead with a religious conversion for her with the full knowledge that she will keep working for Miss Fisher after their marriage. (another concession because, I don’t think Hugh is particularly religious but her faith is important to Dot and so now it is to him too.)

in the exchange about obedience, I don’t think his reaction is one of excitement that now Dot will have to obey him. He knows her far too well for that. I think he sees this moment as a tiny, little win in their back and forth. 

Dot wins most of their skirmishes and he likes the idea that this time she’s being told something she doesn’t want to hear. Something he might use to tease her with but I don’t believe he’d ever really demand obedience. The way he grabs her hand and smirks when she shoves him off without even looking at her tells me this is an inside joke between them.

Later, when Fr. O’Leary tells him times are changing he frowns, because he knows that Dot has, once again, got the better of him in this game. 

This is just my opinion and maybe I’m biased in the direction of an equal love between them, but I can’t see Hugh, at this point, really thinking Dot will be anyone other than who she’s shown him she is, regardless of what the church has to say.

@flashofthefuse , that’s an excellent point of view and I’m more than happy to concede my cynical view for this one!

Personally, knowing them, I didn’t want to believe it either. Dot and Hugh have had amazing development in season 1 and 2 and then suddenly in season 3 they...flopped. Or at least in my eyes. Little communication and little time to solve their issues (but perhaps I’ll rant about this in another post). However, this makes quite a lot of sense.

I wouldn’t think he’d wish her to change for him but then again I’ve heard of too many men who weren’t like they said they were after the marriage. I think I’m also a bit salty because this could have been an excellent ‘let’s talk about this point’.

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reblogged

i know this show is set in 1920′s but it doesn’t make it any less heartbreaking. i can only imagine dottie’s disappointment and quiet pain at hearing all of this. (which really is the pain of so many women in history). i can only imagine how painful it is to hear the man you love, the one who proclaims you’re the love of his life, also say that he’s very happy that you have to obey him, regardless of what you think or want to do. and in fact hugh has been quite dismissive of dottie on too many occasions.

it’s just heartbreaking for me, that’s all, even if i believe they’ll talk about it and resolve it somehow

Avatar
movrings

Hm I always interpreted his “I like that view” as a lie, so he would be accepted in the catholic church

Sadly, I cannot interpret it that way, for a few reasons.

1. His smile is way too genuine, and he’s way too oblivious to Dottie’s discomfort. I think that if he were lying, he would try to reassure Dot in some way. Frankly, I’m quite disappointed that they haven’t had any kind of conversation about it; that Dottie hasn’t brought it up. He didn’t give her any sort of “I’m joking, btw” look, or anything.

2. Even if we were to ignore the above argument, he genuinely looks disappointed when Father O’Leary (I hope I’m saying the name correctly) rectifies the saying, telling him that they’re in modern times now. Not in an angry way, but definitely in a “Darn! I had really hoped!” way. Otherwise, he’d look as gleeful as Dottie does.

3. One of their main arguments (which brought their break up for a short while) was that Dottie still wanted to live and work with Miss Fisher, that she didn’t want to give up her independence for him just to make a family. He has a proper conversation with Jack about that, where he said he thought she’d want that. Jack tells him that that’s how a modern woman is. And Hugh doesn’t say he’ accepts it, but that he’ll try. He’s willing to try for Dottie, but he was obviously glad to have found a ‘loophole’ where Dottie had to go…probably do wifely (and motherly) things and not fuss around with Miss Fisher. (granted, he was mostly concerned about her safety, but he still disregarded her enough, treated her kind of like a child that needs protecting at all costs. And Dottie has proved she’s more than able to protect herself).

Well I can’t disagree with these points. I guess it was simply wishful thinking of me… and you’re right there should have been a conversation between Hugh and Dottie about this!

@justmissfisher nope you didn’t put me off at all. I like these discussions :)

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whopooh

If it’s any consolation to your disappointment, I interpret this conversation in a completely different, and much more hopeful, way @justmissfisher @movrings! I see Hugh’s comment not to mean “thus is what I want”, but rather as him (and the show) trying to show Dot that her ideas don’t add up – she is the one who wants him to become catholic and embrace the ideas fully, but she also wants to be independent and work and not rely on her husband’s will. So, I think of Hugh as rather teasing her here, and the end point is that it would be better if they talked and decided together instead of letting external systems decide over them. (Then Dot goes and talks with the priest instead of with her future husband, which is a pity for their communication abilities but brings up more comedy, which I think is what the writers were after.)

@movrings I’m glad I didn’t :)

@whopooh , thank you for your input, that’s a good way of seeing it! I had genuinely wondered how they were going to resolve this when they got engaged because I’m familiar with Christianity’s rules.

Looking back on it, I personally think it would have been interesting to have Dot convert to Protestantism. Like, how that whole thing would have played.

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Sorting MFMM characters into Hogwarts Houses

Alright, folks!

I've been a Potterhead for over half of my life and I've bingewatched MFMM and I'm well on my way for a very slow rewatching, so I think I'm half-qualified to bring my two cents into this debate - if there even is one. Alas, this is a great opportunity for more analysis of characters, which I absolutely love. Feel free to contradict me if you disagree, I wanna hear other opinions.

 Our Honorable Private Detective Miss Phryne Fisher

Slytherin/Gryffindor (with a strong side of Ravenclaw)

Arguments:

Slytherin: She’s cunning, clever, resourceful and has manipulated the situation to her favour when needed, over and over again. She has no issue changing the argument in some way so she’s winning. (just one ex: when Hugh brings Miss Gay over in episode 2, he says the inspector will want to hear her explanation as to why she took Jane. She says that she’s sure she’ll have an explanation by then). She’s quite ambitious in solving her cases; she doesn’t stop until she finds the answer ( a bit of Ravenclaw ). She’s particularly more protective of the people she cares about (I would suspect she got Jane as a ward, both because she likes her and reminds her of her sister. And we know she’d do anything for her close people.)

Her Gryffindor-ness expresses in the way she recklessly follows the danger at times, her love of adventure (the infamous ‘Adventuress Club’ she creates). She has brushes with death far more often than advisable. She’s very much interested in justice; she decides she won’t bring her laundry anymore at the church that abuses those poor girls. (but only after she cannot use them anymore to find information about the girls who disappeared). She’s come to Melbourne to bring justice for her sister and have some more adventures (away from her family)

Slytherin and Gryffindor have quite a lot in common, both being very passionate. Just that Slytherins are much more deliberate, which I really think it’s something Phryne is. She can be very reckless, but she’s rarely impulsive or thoughtless and almost everything she does is well-calculated. Also, Gryffindors have a tendency to see the world in black-or-white morality, which is not really Phryne’s style.

The side of Ravenclaw expresses itself in her insurmountable curiousity, as well as being a cultured, well-read, extremely open-minded and quick to learn woman (and possessing the desire to learn).

Final House: Ultimately, I think I would choose Slytherin (but if someone else prefers Gryffindor, I wouldn’t rage. I just think she could also be an excellent Slytherin role model, which I think she would also love. And Gryffindors would agree she’s one of the agreeable Slytherins).

Edit: Sorry folks, I think I will have to go back to Gryffindor. I have received many excellent arguments as to why, ultimately, she represents Gryffindor better than Slytherin - despite her cunningness. I want to present all facts as well as I can; And I think I owe a couple of more arguments.

1. Slytherins are more focused on image. Sure, Phryne is focused on looking well, but she will put aside thoughts of her appearance when a case is in the way. She also loves to toy with society’s expectations and has little care for propriety - compare her to Aunt P, if you want to.

2. This morning when I woke up I suddenly remembered that she has gone on more adventures than one can count (to the point where there can be plotholes, but I haven’t done the math yet.) And if that’s not Gryffindor in a nutshell, I don’t know...

Detective Inspector Jack Robinson

Ravenclaw/Gryffindor with strong Hufflepuff

Arguments:

This one was a little harder to pinpoint. At first, he could seem very well a Gryffindor, with his strong set of morals (marriage is still a marriage, even if they’re not talking anymore); he wants to bring justice and make the world a safer place. Everyone who knows him knows that he’ll try to find the truth and be fair, responsible. (Hufflepuffness)

His former wife trusts him in this regard so much, she knows he’s telling the truth when he accuses her fiance and father of...quite enough illegal things)

However, I could bring many good arguments for Ravenclaw: He’s just as curious as Miss Fisher, even if less obvious about it. He’s very rarely reckless and very deliberate about it. (ex: In the episode where he eventually arrests Sydney and his former father-in-law, he doesn’t rush thoughtlessly in the situation. Analyzes pros and cons and decides to take the risk.) He likes doing things in A Certain Way, but he’s also quite open-minded (and tries daily to be more so, both for those he cares about and himself); he’s willing to hear others opinions and debate them and doesn’t take anything as set in stone. (even in situations where he doesn’t have concrete evidence, he accepts arguments that make sense and seem to be as true as possible). He’s quite thoughtful and rarely impulsive.

Final House: My final take will be Ravenclaw. He’s also a huge nerd (I mean, I know not all Ravenclaws are nerds, and not all nerds are Ravenclaws, but I think he’s a Ravenclaw who’s a huge nerd.)

Cinnamon Roll Dorothy “Dot” Williams

Hufflepuff with a strong side of Gryffindor (and a learned bit of Slytherin, especially later in the show)

Arguments:

Oh, nobody could possibly deny she’s a Hufflepuff! She practically radiates it, from the way she behaves, believes and dresses. She’s kind, hardworking, caring, down-to-earth, sensible, practical, deeply loyal (all of which are very Hufflepuff sentiments). She’s very attached to the idea of belonging to a community and helping it ( that’s why she’s so involved in Church; and she cares deeply about the little family she found with Miss Fisher & Co.) She follows Miss Fisher everywhere and is willing from the beginning to help, even in the craziest of the plans. She’s a very sensible person, down to the way she dresses.

Now that it’s quite so settled, I want to bring a bit of shine on her Gryffindorness, because that’s not so obvious. But she is a very brave person and she’s willing to move past her fears, especially for the sake of those she loves (again, quite Hufflepuffish). Even from the very first episode, she’s willing to go in danger in order to find the truth (she also puts a great deal of trust in Miss Fisher). With a bit of encouragement from Phryne, her Gryffindor side shines more and more: she’s the one to ask Hugh to the ball and in many situations, she’ll go investigate on her own and then bring back whatever she’s found either to Miss Fisher or Hugh. She’s quite a traditional woman compared to Miss Fisher, but she’s also willing to change the Father she goes to when she learns he’s a violent person.

Bits of Slytherin are learned from being with Miss Fisher. She’s always been quite a clever girl, she likes solving puzzles and she has quite a keen eye for detail, but being with Phryne and Co. has taught her that it’s alright to be all of these things. She’s willing to try to bend the situation a little to be in her favor, through....knowing her value in quite a few situations (when she tells the Father that prohibited her from being with Hugh that she won’t bake and make clothes for the Church charity anymore if she cannot be with Hugh, as well as telling Father O’Leary - was it the same Father in both situations? - that she could convert to Protestantism if he keeps on with that ‘wife must obey to husband’ philosophy). 

Final House: Hufflepuff, naturally. I just wanted to shine more on what an amazing and complex character she is.

Constable Hugh Collins

Hufflepuff with a side of Hufflepuff

Arguments: At most, if I squint, I could see a bit of Gryffindorness in there, but I would suspect it’s more learned through being in the workforce, rather than something he possesses more naturally. He’s dependable, kind, hardworking. He’s a bit set in his stone, believing that things are the way he’s learned them and having a bit of a hard time to adapt (for instance, his difficulty in accepting that Dottie wants to keep working for Miss Fisher, and that she’s more modern than most of the other women her age). He’s sweet and very quick to try to help, friendly and a little gullible, but he’s willing to listen and try to get better (especially for the sake of those he cares about). He’s relatively down to earth, rarely does reckless things, unless explicitly told (particularly by Jack Robinson, on occasion by Phryne Fisher). He’s a man attached to the idea of family - particularly making his own - and very loyal, both to the DI as well as Dottie. He’s one of the main characters most pressured by societal expectations and rules and abiding by them. (which in turn brings the despair and hopelessness that he’s a failure if he cannot provide for his future family and makes him run away).

Final House: Hufflepuff. There’s really no question about it. There would be more to talk about in a character analysis, but I’m not sure which percentage could go into a definition of Hufflepuffness and which is mainly just him (especially since both Hugh and Dottie are Hufflepuffs, but very different ones).

Albert "Bert" Johnson

Gryffindor/Slytherin

Arguments: 

As I’ve mentioned before, Slytherin and Gryffindor have more in common than you’d think, and in particular for Bert it’s hard for me to choose.

Bert is deeply passionate (either for his footbal team or his causes); and that’s when he becomes impulsive, in defensiveness or desire to protect. While he’s a reckless man, he doesn’t strike me as the man who does many things without thinking; he often accepts in going in errands for Miss Fisher, but he’s more aware of what he gets on than would seem at a first glance. He’s a deeply loyal man, but his loyalty and trust is also hard bought and easily lost (he becomes very angry when Cec decides to marry, because it jeopardizes their partnership, and because Cec hadn’t told him).

Final House:  I think he’s a fairly good match between the two. Ultimately, I think he’d be in Gryffindor; I don’t think he could stand being in Slytherin.

 Cecil "Cec" Yates

Hufflepuff with a side of Gryffindor

Arguments: Between the two, Cec is definitely the friendlier one, more concerned with helping strangers (Bert admonishes him in the first episode that he takes in strays), as well as more polite. He’s also less impulsive than Bert and not so quick to get into a fight unless it’s a must. He’s caring, loyal and willing to put aside differences for other people (think of the episode with the football teams when he comes to check on Bert when he hears of the victim’s death). I think his Gryffindorness comes more from his association with Bert and Miss Fisher (as well as the nature of his job), but I understand that Bert and Cec are a pair and most people would put them both in the same house.

Final House: Hufflepuff, in my humble opinion.

Mister Tobias Bulter

Hufflepuff with a side of Ravenclaw

Arguments: While I think Mr. Butler could make a fine addition to either house, he’s more of a Hufflepuff. He is helpful, hardworking, loyal, anticipative of other people’s needs and willing to try and meet them. He cares deeply about his job. Non-judgmental, he rolls quickly with the whole hurricane that is Miss Fisher’s life, without making much fuss (and quite enjoys it, if you ask me). He also cares about other people, listening to their problems and offering sound advice when needed. He’s diplomatic, knows what to say and which secrets to keep. His calm and respectful manner hides quite unexpected knowledge (fighting, guns, birds and many others). He’s also patient, willing to teach Kip how to do a good job, and generally sounds like a good teacher.

Final House: Hufflepuff

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