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@juju-fisher / juju-fisher.tumblr.com

Happily married elder millennial gal who loves the fantastic, the frightening, and the beautiful. Christian Agnostic. Minors (-18) DNI.
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consoleyourself-deactivated2025
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sadsongsandwaltzes

There is a real physiological aspect to things like anxiety and depression, and to ignore that and suggest that simply believing in Christ is a guarantee to make those problems go away is a form of prosperity gospel.

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sadsongsandwaltzes

Anxiety and depression aren’t inherently sinful. But even if they were, it takes a special kind of evil to see someone down in dumps and decide to kick them while they’re down even further into the depths instead of, oh i don’t know, sharing the true hope of the gospel with that person

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sadsongsandwaltzes

“‘Fear not’ is an invitation to comfort, not a threat.”

Wow.

#christianity#the bible#mental health#mental illness#depression
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reblogged
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faeriefully

a lot of people are mad in my notes because they think I’m trying to debate… I’m not. It’s not a debate. I’m just stating a fact.

All Christians believe in the Trinity. One God. Three Persons. God the Father. God the Son, Jesus Christ. God the Holy Spirit.

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zelda-was-here

The problem I and others are seeing with how all of this is being handled— and I want you to know I’m saying this respectfully and as a fellow Trinity-affirming sister in Christ— is the posts we’ve seen from the past few days come off as exceptionally combative and that’s not going to convince someone. It’s akin to walking up to someone who proclaims they’re an atheist and saying, “You’re going to hell. Hope this helps.” and walking off.

The deity of Christ is important for Christians to understand, His place in the Trinity is real. But what I see happening is a conversation that should’ve happened in private, in love, instead of putting a vague post out there.

I would love to talk theology with others, but I’m not going to come armed with a cattle prod and a flyswatter.

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redeemed-wren

I do think sometimes the goal isn't to convince people though.

In this world of Coexist, people are super tolerant of bending truth to make everyone happy. Drawing a line in the sand in regards to fundamental truths about the world is needed sometimes.

We need to have a clear, defined understanding of what being a Christian is, and that's why the creeds are so valuble--much smarter people many years ago saw heresies creeping into mainstream and said hey no actually. We're stopping this. We should listen to them and make a stand.

I will conceded that Internet forums are rarely if ever the best place for these conversations, but if we don't draw a line--yes, if we don't gatekeep--then our faith means nothing. We have so much freedom under Christ, and there is huge variety of belief, but if we allow our fundamental, core tenants of faith to be slowly eroded away for the sake of Being Nice, we simply stand by and watch as the world slips into darkness and lies.

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humblewonderer

We should approach others in love, yes, but the Bible does not tell us to ask false teachers very nicely if they'll please stop preaching blasphemy. I believe it's best to speak in a loving manner if you're reaching out to someone, but if they're twisting God's word and refuse to listen, that love needs to be tough love.

Besides, op is just making their own posts on their own blog 😭 they're allowed to say some doctrines are objectively wrong if they are. Genuine love requires a balance of gentleness and firmness.

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juju-fisher

If someone is speaking out of ignorance (i.e. they genuinely don't know any better) then they need correction; they don't need to be called "pure evil", "literal demons(s)" or hit with smug, cynical memes.

#christianity#heresy
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mybeautifulchristianjourney
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lovelyardie

Book of Job supremacy

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frangipani-wanderlust

The Prosperity Gospel (which I personally like to call the “Osteenian Heresy”) claims that if you believe hard enough, bad things won’t happen to you. And if bad things do happen, you either don’t believe enough or did a sin.

The book of Job takes extreme pains to establish that Job has a devoutly sincere faith and is not doing a sin. Satan and God single Job out as someone whose virtue is unassailable. Yet he suffers. A lot. The word “calamity” is probably too mild. And Job personally yells at some loser friends who try to kick him when he’s down by claiming he must have done something to deserve his suffering.

The Prosperity Gospel fails on Scriptural grounds in many ways, but Job in particular not only runs it over with a tank, it then throws the tank in reverse and runs it over again.

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witch-hattery

At the same time it demolishes the idea that poverty is a virtue. Let’s not forget that.

#christianity#heresy
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cometcrystal

This is so fucking funny

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blackplaaague

You know what? I'm no prophet but I think Halloween is rad. It's a season of creativity, of accepting that every life comes to its close, and sharing things, handing out sweets to children and fake skeletons to your goth friends.

Not to twist scripture or any crap but it feels like something Jesus would enjoy, y'know? The metaphors? The sharing? The idea of life returning from death?

...Okay, I'm reading too far into this, but personally, the overcommercialized ruins of what once was Christmas feel more sin-y to me than a holiday about having fun and giving treats to kids.

#halloween#christianity
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earthlytim
instagram.com

“Women, Thou Art Noosed” - what TD Jakes should’ve named his book.

Initially, I thought this was patriarchy telling women what to think/believe again, then I realised it was pointing out one of the tools that allow/ed patriarchy to be exist. #Religion #Bible #Religion #Atheism

There are so many things wrong with this and I’m not nearly patient enough of a person to even get started on pointing all of them out.

Me neither, but as usual, it’s (materialistic) atheists nit-picking Bible verses and taking them away from their context.

Nihil novo sub sole.

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catie-does-things

*cracks knuckles* Okay, here we go. Let’s start with the rebuttals, moving clockwise from the top left:

“Submit to your husband”

  • Context: Ephesians 5:21-33: “Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, be subject to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of wife as Christ is the head of the Church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the Church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the Church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. Even so, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the Church, because we are members of his body. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I mean in reference to Christ and the Church; however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.”
  • Basically, St. Paul is not describing the ideal marriage as one in which the wife passively obeys a tyrannical husband, but as one in which the husband loves the wife completely and sacrificially, and the wife in turn is respectful and obedient towards him. Each spouse is expected to put the needs of the other before their own.
  • Consider also St. John Chrysostom’s (c. 349-407 AD) homily on this passage: “Thou hast seen the measure of obedience, hear also the measure of love. Wouldest thou have thy wife obedient unto thee, as the Church is to Christ? Take then thyself the same provident care for her, as Christ takes for the Church. Yea, even if it shall be needful for thee to give thy life for her, yea, and to be cut into pieces ten thousand times, yea, and to endure and undergo any suffering whatever,—refuse it not. […] A servant, indeed, one will be able, perhaps, to bind down by fear; nay not even him, for he will soon start away and be gone. But the partner of one’s life, the mother of one’s children, the foundation of one’s every joy, one ought never to chain down by fear and menaces, but with love and good temper. For what sort of union is that, where the wife trembles at her husband? And what sort of pleasure will the husband himself enjoy, if he dwells with his wife as with a slave, and not as with a free-woman? Yea, though thou shouldest suffer anything on her account, do not upbraid her; for neither did Christ do this.”
  • Elsewhere Chrysostom further explains: “When we speak about a wife obeying the husband, we normally think of obedience in military or political terms: the husband giving orders and the wife obeying them. But while this type of obedience may be appropriate in the army, it is ridiculous in the intimate relationship of marriage. The obedient wife does not wait for orders. Rather she tries to discern her husband’s needs and feelings and responds in love. When she sees her husband is weary, she encourages him to rest; when she sees him agitated, she soothes him; when he is ill, she nurses and comforts him; when he is happy and elated, she shares his joy. Yet such obedience should not be confined to the wife; the husband should be obedient in the same way… Thus a good marriage is not a matter of one partner obeying the other, but of both partners obeying each other.”
  • More recently, Pope John Paul II writes in Familiaris Consortio (1981): “Authentic conjugal love presupposes and requires that a man have a profound respect for the equal dignity of his wife: “You are not her master,” writes St. Ambrose, “but her husband; she was not given to you to be your slave, but your wife…. Reciprocate her attentiveness to you and be grateful to her for her love.””

“[Women should be] seen and not heard”

  • This phrase does not originate in the Bible, but in a 15th century homily which cites it as “an English saying”.  It referred specifically to young women, not all women generally, leading to its later more common form: “Children should be seen and not heard.”
  • I’m not really going to defend this one; it’s not a noble sentiment whether aimed at women or children. But it’s hardly a tenant of Christianity, either.

“The woman shall be saved through child-bearing”

  • 1 Timothy 2:15: “Yet the woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.”
  • This verse follows the distinction between Adam’s sin and Eve’s (see below). The point is not that childbearing is a woman’s only hope of salvation (or else the countless virgin saints who never bore children would not exist; more on that later), but rather that childbearing is a means of sanctification which is reserved to women.
  • This is a profound statement, really. In Genesis 3:16, after the fall, the pains of childbirth are presented as Eve’s punishment for her sin. But in the New Testament, after the coming of Christ, this very same uniquely female form of suffering becomes a cause for hope.

“Home Sweet Home”

  • The title of a 19th century song about longing for the comforts of home, not remotely related to anything particularly Christian or religious, and I’m not even sure what the problem with this one is supposed to be? Moving right along…

“A woman’s place is in the home”

  • Sayings of this nature predate Christianity, with the first attested in the 5th century BC.
  • Proverbs 31:10-31 describes the duties of an ideal wife, which are domestic in nature but hardly keep her confined to the house. These include: procuring food for the household (ver. 14), buying land and working it (ver. 16), selling and delivering goods she has made (ver. 18 and 24), and distributing alms to the poor (ver. 20). Women are clearly expected to participate in commerce and society, not just cook and clean while their husbands take care of everything else. The domestic labor of women is not a degrading or secondary station, but an important role in society.
  • Turning to Familiaris Consortio again: “There is no doubt that the equal dignity and responsibility of men and women fully justifies women’s access to public functions. On the other hand the true advancement of women requires that clear recognition be given to the value of their maternal and family role, by comparison with all other public roles and all other professions. Furthermore, these roles and professions should be harmoniously combined, if we wish the evolution of society and culture to be truly and fully human. […] While it must be recognized that women have the same right as men to perform various public functions, society must be structured in such a way that wives and mothers are not in practice compelled to work outside the home, and that their families can live and prosper in a dignified way even when they themselves devote their full time to their own family. Furthermore, the mentality which honors women more for their work outside the home than for their work within the family must be overcome. This requires that men should truly esteem and love women with total respect for their personal dignity, and that society should create and develop conditions favoring work in the home.
  • In short, Christian women have every right to work outside the home, but why should whether or not they do so have any bearing on their perceived worth?

“As the weaker partner, and…”

  • 1 Peter 3:7 in my NRSV-CE Bible reads: “Likewise, you husbands, live considerately with your wives, bestowing honor on the woman as the weaker sex, since you are joint heirs of the grace of life, in order that your prayers may not be hindered.”
  • This passage from 1 Peter 3 is very similar to Ephesians 5 (see above), and the verse in question is telling husbands to treat their wives with respect, since Christian men and women alike are heirs to the promises of Christ.
  • Christian tradition has long held that women are in some ways weaker than men, but Christianity has never equated strength with dignity, or weakness with a lack thereof. Rather we are told, “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.” (Matthew 5:5) Biblical references to women as the weaker sex are not intended as judgements of value or holiness.

“Do not let your beauty be external.”

  • 1 Peter 3:3: “Let not yours be the outward adorning with braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of robes, but let it be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable jewel of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious.” 
  • This verse is part of the same passage as the previous one. St. Peter is telling wives to prioritize the state of their souls over the adornment of their bodies. Basically, focus on being a virtuous person and don’t get distracted by material vanity.
  • The Bible contains numerous condemnations of vanity of all kinds addressed to both men and women. Luke 20:46-47 is one example of male vanity being criticized: “Beware of the scribes, who like to go about in long robes, and love salutations in the market places and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, who devour widows’ houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.”

“It [was the] woman w[ho was] deceived.”

  • 1 Timothy 2:14; “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.” 
  • St. John Chrysostom’s homily on this passage explains: “But how was Adam not deceived? If he was not deceived, he did not then transgress? Attend carefully. The woman said, “The serpent beguiled me.” But the man did not say, The woman deceived me, but, “she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.” Now it is not the same thing to be deceived by a fellow-creature, one of the same kind, as by an inferior and subordinate animal. This is truly to be deceived. Compared therefore with the woman, he is spoken of as “not deceived.” For she was beguiled by an inferior and subject, he by an equal. Again, it is not said of the man, that he “saw the tree was good for food,” but of the woman, and that she “did eat, and gave it to her husband”: so that he transgressed, not captivated by appetite, but merely from the persuasion of his wife.”
  • Adam’s sin is not being excused or blamed on Eve, but Eve is being held accountable for trusting the word of the serpent, which Adam did not do, at least not directly.

“Charity begins at home.”

  • This is another phrase that does not come from the Bible, though the basic idea behind it - that caring for one’s family should be a priority - is expressed in 1 Timothy 5:8: “If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” Note that this verse is addressed towards men, and has nothing to do with women allegedly being confined in the home or any such nonsense.

“I do not permit a woman to teach.”

  • 1 Timothy 2:12: “I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.”
  • This passage is specifically giving instructions for the liturgy/communal prayer, and St. Paul is writing to St. Timothy, the bishop of Ephesus. The following passages also deal with the qualifications for bishops and deacons. It therefore seems likely that St. Paul means that women can not perform the liturgical functions of the clergy, since they can not be ordained. (The whys and wherefores of that could be another post entirely; for a basic primer see here and here.)
  • Proverbs 31:26 includes among the qualities of the ideal wife: “She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.” 
  • St. Mary Magdalene has long been called the “apostle to the apostles” because of her role in bringing the news of Christ’s resurrection to his male followers, and another ancient tradition says that Mary Magdalene went on to preach the Gospel to the Roman Emperor Tiberius.
  • A similar story surrounds St. Catherine of Alexandria, who was said to have won debates against the best pagan scholars of her day and brought many converts to the faith through her teaching.

So much for that then. Now, a few counterpoints to consider:

The Witness of the Virgin Saints

  • Christian women can and do achieve holiness without being married or bearing children. Consecrated virginity has been regarded as a sacred vocation since the earliest days of the Church, and there are numerous virgin saints throughout the centuries.
  • Many of the earliest virgin saints specifically rejected suitors or refused the marriages their families tried to arrange, including Saint Lucy, Saint Agnes, and Saint Agatha.
  • Later women who joined religious orders would become some of the most well-educated and prolific female scholars of their times, including St. Hildegard of Bingen, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Teresa of Avila, and St. Edith Stein.
  • This tradition is kept alive today by the numerous unmarried Christian women, whether they take religious vows or not, who devote their lives to prayer, works of charity, and scholarship.

The Queen of Heaven

  • The greatest of all the saints is a woman, Mary, the mother of God. Talk to Catholic or Orthodox Christians about their faith and you’ll quickly realize how important she is.
  • No woman will ever be pope, but no pope will ever surpass this woman.
  • Mary is the most perfect example of what it means to be a follower of Christ. All Christians, both male and female, are meant to follow her example.

The Word of God

  • Aside from the Virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene, there are numerous other holy women found throughout scripture: Miriam, Deborah, Esther, Judith, Jael, Ruth, Elizabeth, Anna, Martha, Priscilla, Lydia, and Joanna, among others. None of them bear the slightest resemblance to the helpless victim of the patriarchy depicted above.
  • Galatians 3:27-28: “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” I’ve talked more about this verse here, but the relevant point is that all believers have equal dignity through their baptism in Christ, regardless of race, class, or gender.

Finally, some recommended further reading, written by people a lot smarter than me:

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theriu

Thank you for that excellent analysis!

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doctorbluesmanreturns

Also not to derail at all but I feel like it is important to point out that this analysis isn’t just important because it debunks those arguments–it’s important because there are still to this day people who call themselves Christians who preach all of that hateful bile against women. I’ve seen people on here argue that women are genetically too stupid to be trusted with any financial matters, that “wives, obey your husbands” is a command that supersedes literally everything else in a woman’s life and she should be totally subservient or else be disciplined, and countless other examples of misogynistic dehumanization and abuse apologism framed as “authentic Christianity”. Posts like this that cite actual Biblical and Church teachings about why that sort of thing is absolutely not how Christian men are supposed to treat their wives are so incredibly important so that everyone actually knows what real Christian teachings are, rather than the perverted nonsense that cults like to say are Christian teachings.

#the bible#christianity#scripture#sexism
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reblogged

You know all those wonderful Conservative parents who proceed to abandon, kick out, or cut off their children for any reason (including, but not limited to a child’s sexuality)? Well here we go:

“But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” 1 Timothy 5:8 (NKJV)

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twistedviper
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geekns

As a Christian, it disheartens me how many of us that do not care enough to actually read the Bible to find out what it says and then follow it. Not all of us do it, but far, far too many. They will know we are Christians by our love. As a people whose faith is rooted in the knowledge that we are not worthy of forgiveness but God forgave us anyway, and God loved/s us while we were/are still sinning, you would think the message would be clear. The greatest of these is love, and if you love someone you do not kick them out or abandon them no matter what.

#christianity
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reblogged

trad_living

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da-boy-o-kultur

A good couple years ago this one African missionary came to Poland and they made it into this sweet story how the African Christians will repay Europeans by bringing Christianity back to us.

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juju-fisher

I was told a similar story at an Evangelical youth conference in the late 90s. They stated that it was a sign of the End Times. I thought it was a bizarre thing to say; I still do, especially since (as far as I know) it isn't supported by anything in scripture.

^ Good points that deserve to be shared.

#memes#christianity#i hate wojaks#please kill them with fire
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reblogged
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offices-regionalbranch

Evangelicals have a normal theology challenge GO

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gunsandfireandshit

I love how there's a whole bible story about someone from the out group being helpful and good but they see it IRL and immediately assume demonic influence

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petrock-rambles

These types of Christians assume nobody is good, and if you do good things it’s either because 1. You believe in Jesus hallelujah or 2. The Devil is using you like a sockpuppet to lure unsuspecting Christians into Doing Sins. They can’t fathom that anybody can be good on their own, they can’t fathom that good exists naturally. They think everything and everyone is evil, and the presence of good can only come from Invisible Beings Playing Chess With The Universe. This is why they often have the most horrifying takes and oppose so many good things. If the good thing didn’t come from their group and their belief system, it must be coming from the Devil. The best advice I ever got on talking to Evangelicals came from a Methodist pastor. He said “Don’t.”

#christianity#evangelicals#bad theology
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reblogged

"biblical marriages are set against women and so patriarchal with no consideration for wives"

meanwhile God speaking through...

Moses: yes, Man has everything he needs here in Eden but there's still something missing. he should have someone fit to help and complement him.

Peter: brothers if you're bad husbands, God's just straight up not going to listen to your prayers. get your act together and take care of your wife.

Paul: you better be prepared to die for your wife guys. and that's not a suggestion, that's God's command.

Solomon: a good wife is literally priceless. like you could be the richest man and she would still be more valuable to you than all of it combined.

Paul again: honor your wife, you're equal to her in God's eyes and co-heirs with Christ. treat her like you would yourself.

Malachi: you priests have neglected and mistreated your wives and been unfaithful even though you're supposed to be one with them? there is nothing but misery that will come for you for this breach of covenant.

Paul, yet again: if you are not mirroring Jesus Christ in how you treat her in marriage, you're failing in your duty as a husband.

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authortobenamedlater

References:

“And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”” Genesis‬ ‭2:18‬

“Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.” I Peter‬ ‭3:7‬

“Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,” Ephesians 5:25

“Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies.” Proverbs‬ ‭31:10‬ ‭

“So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.” Ephesians‬ ‭5:28‬

“Yet you say, “For what reason?” Because the Lord has been witness Between you and the wife of your youth, With whom you have dealt treacherously; Yet she is your companion And your wife by covenant.” Malachi‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭

“For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.” Ephesians‬ ‭5:29‬ ‭

—

Now, if you’ll indulge some exposition.

First: All of these verses—in fact, all of the Bible—was written in a time when a woman had no legal or societal standing apart from a man. If a widow had no brothers, sons, or father to care for her, she was more or less destitute and homeless. Men were under no legal or cultural obligation to treat their wives well. And here come the Apostle Paul and his minions telling men their wives are EQUAL????? That these womenfolk have RIGHTS?????

I don’t think many of us take time to contemplate how absolutely scandalous such a statement would be in Paul’s day.

Second: Much is made of the “gave Himself for [the church]” command in Ephesians 5. Usually we interpret it as dying for the church/the wife. But Jesus didn’t just DIE for the church, He LIVES for the church.

Very few husbands will ever have to die for their wives. All husbands will have to live for their wives. It’s not enough to say “I’d jump in front of a bullet for her” and think you’re getting it done. How are you living for her? How are you loving her? If the aim of love is the perfection of the beloved, as CS Lewis says (and Ephesians 5 said before him), is your love perfecting your wife?

Do you readily forgive your wife (“cleanse her” as the verse says) or do you keep a record of her wrongs? Is she glorious in your eyes, or do you only see her shortcomings? Do you give her honor? Do you set her apart for yourself (that’s what “holy” and “sanctified” mean) and recognize that she is different and special, or do you treat her the same way you treat your bros? Do you want her to become everything God intends her to be, even if that demands more of you than you want to give? Or would you rather see her spiritually stunted than put in the effort? Do you treat her as flesh of your flesh, none of your bone? Are her desires, preferences, feelings, and thoughts as important to you as your own? Or are they only important when they don’t get in your way? What’s the last thing you sacrificed for your wife? Are the two of you truly “one flesh”? Or is marriage your sandbox and she’s just playing in it?

If you read all that and thought “I’m doing a pretty good job” ask yourself if your wife would agree. If you think she would, ask HER if she agrees.

We hear a lot about how marriage is a better deal for men than women. I have to wonder how much of that is because we don’t read passages like Epehesians 5 in their entirety. Because everything these verses requires of husbands sounds like way more work than anything the Bible requires from wives.

Yes, I’m quite aware my own husband will probably read this 😬😆 and yes, it turned out way longer than I expected. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

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authortobenamedlater

Oh this is still making the rounds

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psifitopia

We had a wedding in our church a few months ago and one of the things our pastor said during the ceremony was that the man's job was to make absolutely certain that his wife knew beyond doubt that he loved her. This means, fellas, you have to love her in ways that work for HER, not for yourself. Which, really, is just a variation of the golden rule: do unto others as you would have done unto you.

Don't kid yourselves. God and Christianity are very in favor of women being happy and well-treated in their marriages. Granted there are a lot of supposedly Christian men who just don't get that. But, don't blame the Bible for people who misuse it for their own selfish reasons.

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juju-fisher

It's truly sad what people have done with the gospel. Downright sickening.

#the bible#christianity#sexism
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reblogged
egglygreg
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earthlytim
instagram.com

“Women, Thou Art Noosed” - what TD Jakes should’ve named his book.

Initially, I thought this was patriarchy telling women what to think/believe again, then I realised it was pointing out one of the tools that allow/ed patriarchy to be exist. #Religion #Bible #Religion #Atheism

There are so many things wrong with this and I’m not nearly patient enough of a person to even get started on pointing all of them out.

Me neither, but as usual, it’s (materialistic) atheists nit-picking Bible verses and taking them away from their context.

Nihil novo sub sole.

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catie-does-things

*cracks knuckles* Okay, here we go. Let’s start with the rebuttals, moving clockwise from the top left:

“Submit to your husband”

  • Context: Ephesians 5:21-33: “Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, be subject to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of wife as Christ is the head of the Church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the Church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the Church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. Even so, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the Church, because we are members of his body. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I mean in reference to Christ and the Church; however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.”
  • Basically, St. Paul is not describing the ideal marriage as one in which the wife passively obeys a tyrannical husband, but as one in which the husband loves the wife completely and sacrificially, and the wife in turn is respectful and obedient towards him. Each spouse is expected to put the needs of the other before their own.
  • Consider also St. John Chrysostom’s (c. 349-407 AD) homily on this passage: “Thou hast seen the measure of obedience, hear also the measure of love. Wouldest thou have thy wife obedient unto thee, as the Church is to Christ? Take then thyself the same provident care for her, as Christ takes for the Church. Yea, even if it shall be needful for thee to give thy life for her, yea, and to be cut into pieces ten thousand times, yea, and to endure and undergo any suffering whatever,—refuse it not. […] A servant, indeed, one will be able, perhaps, to bind down by fear; nay not even him, for he will soon start away and be gone. But the partner of one’s life, the mother of one’s children, the foundation of one’s every joy, one ought never to chain down by fear and menaces, but with love and good temper. For what sort of union is that, where the wife trembles at her husband? And what sort of pleasure will the husband himself enjoy, if he dwells with his wife as with a slave, and not as with a free-woman? Yea, though thou shouldest suffer anything on her account, do not upbraid her; for neither did Christ do this.”
  • Elsewhere Chrysostom further explains: “When we speak about a wife obeying the husband, we normally think of obedience in military or political terms: the husband giving orders and the wife obeying them. But while this type of obedience may be appropriate in the army, it is ridiculous in the intimate relationship of marriage. The obedient wife does not wait for orders. Rather she tries to discern her husband’s needs and feelings and responds in love. When she sees her husband is weary, she encourages him to rest; when she sees him agitated, she soothes him; when he is ill, she nurses and comforts him; when he is happy and elated, she shares his joy. Yet such obedience should not be confined to the wife; the husband should be obedient in the same way… Thus a good marriage is not a matter of one partner obeying the other, but of both partners obeying each other.”
  • More recently, Pope John Paul II writes in Familiaris Consortio (1981): “Authentic conjugal love presupposes and requires that a man have a profound respect for the equal dignity of his wife: “You are not her master,” writes St. Ambrose, “but her husband; she was not given to you to be your slave, but your wife…. Reciprocate her attentiveness to you and be grateful to her for her love.””

“[Women should be] seen and not heard”

  • This phrase does not originate in the Bible, but in a 15th century homily which cites it as “an English saying”.  It referred specifically to young women, not all women generally, leading to its later more common form: “Children should be seen and not heard.”
  • I’m not really going to defend this one; it’s not a noble sentiment whether aimed at women or children. But it’s hardly a tenant of Christianity, either.

“The woman shall be saved through child-bearing”

  • 1 Timothy 2:15: “Yet the woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.”
  • This verse follows the distinction between Adam’s sin and Eve’s (see below). The point is not that childbearing is a woman’s only hope of salvation (or else the countless virgin saints who never bore children would not exist; more on that later), but rather that childbearing is a means of sanctification which is reserved to women.
  • This is a profound statement, really. In Genesis 3:16, after the fall, the pains of childbirth are presented as Eve’s punishment for her sin. But in the New Testament, after the coming of Christ, this very same uniquely female form of suffering becomes a cause for hope.

“Home Sweet Home”

  • The title of a 19th century song about longing for the comforts of home, not remotely related to anything particularly Christian or religious, and I’m not even sure what the problem with this one is supposed to be? Moving right along…

“A woman’s place is in the home”

  • Sayings of this nature predate Christianity, with the first attested in the 5th century BC.
  • Proverbs 31:10-31 describes the duties of an ideal wife, which are domestic in nature but hardly keep her confined to the house. These include: procuring food for the household (ver. 14), buying land and working it (ver. 16), selling and delivering goods she has made (ver. 18 and 24), and distributing alms to the poor (ver. 20). Women are clearly expected to participate in commerce and society, not just cook and clean while their husbands take care of everything else. The domestic labor of women is not a degrading or secondary station, but an important role in society.
  • Turning to Familiaris Consortio again: “There is no doubt that the equal dignity and responsibility of men and women fully justifies women’s access to public functions. On the other hand the true advancement of women requires that clear recognition be given to the value of their maternal and family role, by comparison with all other public roles and all other professions. Furthermore, these roles and professions should be harmoniously combined, if we wish the evolution of society and culture to be truly and fully human. […] While it must be recognized that women have the same right as men to perform various public functions, society must be structured in such a way that wives and mothers are not in practice compelled to work outside the home, and that their families can live and prosper in a dignified way even when they themselves devote their full time to their own family. Furthermore, the mentality which honors women more for their work outside the home than for their work within the family must be overcome. This requires that men should truly esteem and love women with total respect for their personal dignity, and that society should create and develop conditions favoring work in the home.
  • In short, Christian women have every right to work outside the home, but why should whether or not they do so have any bearing on their perceived worth?

“As the weaker partner, and…”

  • 1 Peter 3:7 in my NRSV-CE Bible reads: “Likewise, you husbands, live considerately with your wives, bestowing honor on the woman as the weaker sex, since you are joint heirs of the grace of life, in order that your prayers may not be hindered.”
  • This passage from 1 Peter 3 is very similar to Ephesians 5 (see above), and the verse in question is telling husbands to treat their wives with respect, since Christian men and women alike are heirs to the promises of Christ.
  • Christian tradition has long held that women are in some ways weaker than men, but Christianity has never equated strength with dignity, or weakness with a lack thereof. Rather we are told, “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.” (Matthew 5:5) Biblical references to women as the weaker sex are not intended as judgements of value or holiness.

“Do not let your beauty be external.”

  • 1 Peter 3:3: “Let not yours be the outward adorning with braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of robes, but let it be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable jewel of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious.” 
  • This verse is part of the same passage as the previous one. St. Peter is telling wives to prioritize the state of their souls over the adornment of their bodies. Basically, focus on being a virtuous person and don’t get distracted by material vanity.
  • The Bible contains numerous condemnations of vanity of all kinds addressed to both men and women. Luke 20:46-47 is one example of male vanity being criticized: “Beware of the scribes, who like to go about in long robes, and love salutations in the market places and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, who devour widows’ houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.”

“It [was the] woman w[ho was] deceived.”

  • 1 Timothy 2:14; “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.” 
  • St. John Chrysostom’s homily on this passage explains: “But how was Adam not deceived? If he was not deceived, he did not then transgress? Attend carefully. The woman said, “The serpent beguiled me.” But the man did not say, The woman deceived me, but, “she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.” Now it is not the same thing to be deceived by a fellow-creature, one of the same kind, as by an inferior and subordinate animal. This is truly to be deceived. Compared therefore with the woman, he is spoken of as “not deceived.” For she was beguiled by an inferior and subject, he by an equal. Again, it is not said of the man, that he “saw the tree was good for food,” but of the woman, and that she “did eat, and gave it to her husband”: so that he transgressed, not captivated by appetite, but merely from the persuasion of his wife.”
  • Adam’s sin is not being excused or blamed on Eve, but Eve is being held accountable for trusting the word of the serpent, which Adam did not do, at least not directly.

“Charity begins at home.”

  • This is another phrase that does not come from the Bible, though the basic idea behind it - that caring for one’s family should be a priority - is expressed in 1 Timothy 5:8: “If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” Note that this verse is addressed towards men, and has nothing to do with women allegedly being confined in the home or any such nonsense.

“I do not permit a woman to teach.”

  • 1 Timothy 2:12: “I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.”
  • This passage is specifically giving instructions for the liturgy/communal prayer, and St. Paul is writing to St. Timothy, the bishop of Ephesus. The following passages also deal with the qualifications for bishops and deacons. It therefore seems likely that St. Paul means that women can not perform the liturgical functions of the clergy, since they can not be ordained. (The whys and wherefores of that could be another post entirely; for a basic primer see here and here.)
  • Proverbs 31:26 includes among the qualities of the ideal wife: “She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.” 
  • St. Mary Magdalene has long been called the “apostle to the apostles” because of her role in bringing the news of Christ’s resurrection to his male followers, and another ancient tradition says that Mary Magdalene went on to preach the Gospel to the Roman Emperor Tiberius.
  • A similar story surrounds St. Catherine of Alexandria, who was said to have won debates against the best pagan scholars of her day and brought many converts to the faith through her teaching.

So much for that then. Now, a few counterpoints to consider:

The Witness of the Virgin Saints

  • Christian women can and do achieve holiness without being married or bearing children. Consecrated virginity has been regarded as a sacred vocation since the earliest days of the Church, and there are numerous virgin saints throughout the centuries.
  • Many of the earliest virgin saints specifically rejected suitors or refused the marriages their families tried to arrange, including Saint Lucy, Saint Agnes, and Saint Agatha.
  • Later women who joined religious orders would become some of the most well-educated and prolific female scholars of their times, including St. Hildegard of Bingen, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Teresa of Avila, and St. Edith Stein.
  • This tradition is kept alive today by the numerous unmarried Christian women, whether they take religious vows or not, who devote their lives to prayer, works of charity, and scholarship.

The Queen of Heaven

  • The greatest of all the saints is a woman, Mary, the mother of God. Talk to Catholic or Orthodox Christians about their faith and you’ll quickly realize how important she is.
  • No woman will ever be pope, but no pope will ever surpass this woman.
  • Mary is the most perfect example of what it means to be a follower of Christ. All Christians, both male and female, are meant to follow her example.

The Word of God

  • Aside from the Virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene, there are numerous other holy women found throughout scripture: Miriam, Deborah, Esther, Judith, Jael, Ruth, Elizabeth, Anna, Martha, Priscilla, Lydia, and Joanna, among others. None of them bear the slightest resemblance to the helpless victim of the patriarchy depicted above.
  • Galatians 3:27-28: “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” I’ve talked more about this verse here, but the relevant point is that all believers have equal dignity through their baptism in Christ, regardless of race, class, or gender.

Finally, some recommended further reading, written by people a lot smarter than me:

THANK.

Holy. Crap. I love posts like these.

Slaughtered 

You knocked this one right out of the park!

AMEN!! #DearFeminists

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coffeeman777

I’m not Catholic, but almost all of this agrees with protestantism as well. Excellent!

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secretariatess

Catholicism aside, this is good.  Also, there are denominations/churches that will ordain women.

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mademoiseli

In regards to Ephesians 5:21-33, we can’t forget that while Christ was on Earth he served his followers, and he was humble

#religion#christianity#jesus#the bible#discourse
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reblogged
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dankmemeuniversity
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headspace-hotel

These jokes hit hard for me because I’ve seen the kind of culture that creates situations like this, but I’d like to add I guess a sympathetic touch to this...

Christian youth are often taught that sexual feelings and thoughts are really only permissible within marriage, and that they’re basically supposed to be sexless beings before that. This leads to them being rushed to marry the first person they feel attracted to because waiting longer increases the discomfort/feeling of “sin.”

But furthermore, “dating” within this subculture is usually very atomized and sterile. You barely have physical contact. You often aren’t allowed to date until a very late age, and even then, it’s incredibly limited.

This happens because these people are experiencing really being in a relationship for the first time ever when they don’t have the maturity to deal with it. They’re making all their relationship mistakes the very first time. They haven’t had much time to figure out what kind of person they are compatible with. They probably don’t even know what they’re sexually attracted to because they’re taught to be so disconnected from it. They’ve never been alone in a bedroom together with a date and now they’re sharing finances and everything. It’s “hard” because they are not prepared in the slightest.

This doesn’t happen because either of the people involved are bad or foolish people. It happens because they were failed by a culture that forces them to make a vastly life changing decision before having ever been able to make a tiny mistake and learn from it enough to figure out what they need and want. And it’s sad.

@christians y’all need to do better by your young people. let them make mistakes, learn, and grow through that

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headspace-hotel

@the people in the notes actively calling the woman stupid: please do not do that. not only is it extremely misogynistic to say that women in bad relationships are there because it’s their fault for being stupid, it’s also just wildly dismissive of how DEEPLY damaging and manipulative purity culture is

i mean, maybe she is stupid. But she should have been allowed to be stupid with her boyfriend at sixteen when she didn’t have to change her entire life around a single decision. Stupid leads to mistakes. Mistakes lead to learning.

This was so many girls right out of high school where I grew up. The boy they'd been approved of dating in their teens was going to be handed a job by someone's dad (or was joining the army) and in addition to having absolutely no clue how to do better, they were also having the American Dream, which they knew full well no one else was getting anymore, waved at them with a lot of pressure to decide. Housing was usually also a big part of the offer from someone's parents (or the military) and these girls wanted/needed to get away from their own families as well.

Christian communities are economically incestuous as fuck and many have absolutely taken advantage of the state of wealth distribution in the U.S. to trap their girls/young women in heterosexual servitude by simply controlling all the best opportunities in an area, and basing female access on being tethered to a Christian Man.

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sunshineandmercury

I wore a purity ring in high school because I went to a very culty Bible camp every summer for like 7 years. It took place on the campus of a Bible college, and the counselors were all students at the school. To give you some context about dating, a favored winter activity for couples was to stroll around outside in frigid temperatures with their significant other, because you were allowed to link arms with a member of the opposite sex if it was for the purpose of the man being able to provide support for the woman so she wouldn’t slip in the ice. Because, y’know, chivalry. The school, a Bible Institute, was also lovingly referred to as the “Bridal Institute” by staff and students.

Anyway, during my last summer at camp, right before my senior year of high school, my counselors were talking to us one night about boys. One of them, who I believe was only 19, had only officially started “dating” her boyfriend a few weeks beforehand, but they had already discussed the details of their wedding and were planning it together, because obviously God had chosen this man for her and they were going to spend the rest of their lives together. The other one was only about 22 or 23, and she was lamenting that she had started school later than most - usually students went there straight out of high school - because her original plan had been to “wait for God to drop a man in [her] lap,” but He was dragging His feet, so she went to school at the “Bridal Institute” because it seemed like the best place to find a Godly Man to be her husband. And it had worked! She wasn’t yet dating this particular boy, but she Just Knew that he was the man she would marry, because it was clearly God’s Plan. She just had to wait for him to get back from his missions trip in a few months, and then he could start courting her.

I very suddenly realized that while I saw the whole abstinence thing as a years-long endeavor because, y’know, what if I didn’t get married till I was like 30?, that was... not at all what it was to everyone else. Because marriage was not a thing you did after you did all the Becoming An Adult things like graduating college and getting a job, so that you were an established grown up making grown up decisions - it was itself one of the Becoming An Adult things. So all of their “True Love Waits” nonsense was fucking bullshit, because there was no real waiting being done. It’s easy to “abstain” when you’re getting married before you can legally drink at your own fucking wedding.

But I had other plans for myself and my life, and even then I knew I had no intention of marrying young, because that just seemed foolish and like a recipe for disaster. I doubt it was more than two months before I took that ring off for good.

The point is, the entire culture surrounding relationships in Christian communities really does push for kids to get married as soon as possible. It’s normalized to a scary extent, and they think they’re spinsters if they’re still 25 and single. And they really don’t “date” because they can’t be alone together ever, they just have to hope that their spouse being deemed “Godly” enough by their parents is going to mean a happy marriage. In fact, that’s all they genuinely believe is needed. So of course they’re shocked that marriage is hard - the culture makes the waiting seem like this difficult thing you do to prove your worthiness to your future spouse, so marriage seems like it’s supposed to be a relief, not work.

#christianity#purity culture
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alwaysabeautifullife

“Dinosaurs aren’t in the Bible so—“

My sweet pumpkin patch, creation of the entire earth, all the animals, and human beings was summarized into a single chapter in the Bible and I am so sorry the good Lord did not describe in detail quantum fluctuations of the expanding universe and a list of every creature to walk the Earth to Moses

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whilewewereyetsinners

And honestly, what exactly do the behemoth and leviathan sound like to them? Some extinct animal that’s definitely not a dinosaur despite there being no other bones ever found that come close to matching while there are dinosaur bones that do?

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juju-fisher

I own an annoted Bible translation that claims exactly that: that the Behemoth was "probably an elephant or a rhinoceros". Yeah, because elephants and rhinos are known for their stiff, heavy tails.

#christianity#the bible#dinosaurs
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fantasysclerosis
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prolifeproliberty

The “was Jesus born in December” issue is incredibly simple.

Zechariah went into the Temple for the Feast of Tabernacles, which falls in late September to early October. Assuming it was the beginning of the feast, Zechariah finds out Elizabeth will conceive in lat September.

Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant when Mary was visited by Gabriel, putting the Annunciation in March.

9 months from March is December.

You don’t need to know anything about pagan rituals or early church councils. You just need to know when Zechariah would have gone into the Temple.

1. There’s no textual evidence for Zechariah serving at Sukkot. That’s a later assignment based on the conception/death idea, compounded by the Book of Zechariah talking about Sukkot.

2. There’s no textual evidence to imply that Zechariah was even serving at a festival at all. There is evidence that Jesus was born around a major holiday that you’d travel home for, coinciding with the decree to tax and count the Jewish population, which would have been a major Jewish festival, like Sukkot, Shavout, and Passover. There are those who argue for a fall birth based on this and with timing of priest family service schedules.

3. We don’t even know when Zechariah was serving in the temple due to cross calendar issues.

4. Textually, lambs are in the field, making early winter was unlikely, since sheep most often given birth in mid winter and it takes some time before they were ready to be moved into the field. Likely, it was early spring or summer, around Passover or Tabernacles.

5. Even if we knew it happened around December 25th, we still wouldn’t know if that was Gregorian or Julian.

5. It doesn’t actually matter when Jesus’s birth was because we all celebrate it at the same time and that unifies the body of the saints and we get to celebrate the coming of the Light of the World at the darkest time of the year when it’s most poignant.

#theology#jesus#christmas#christianity
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Anonymous asked:

Femininity is a trap and I hope you learn to love yourself.

unsweetenedlemon-deactivated202 answered:

Sis, I do love myself. Maybe you need to self-reflect if you feel such an incredible need to imitate men instead of being true to your blessed, feminine self.

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I hope this person learns to love them self and to stop making women feel bad for the choices they make in their lives. If a woman wants to stay at home, let her.

Yep her decision, but if she doesn’t want to stay at home it may be from years of constant feminist propaganda getting inside her head.

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sugarplumpauperess

Huh? I haven’t heard of this thought process, can it be explained as to why there is a thought process that comes to the conclusion that femininity is a trap? 

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i-used-to-be-an-anti-feminist

The thought process is that not performing femininity is not “imitating men” because men are free to exist as themselves, whereas as a woman, in order to perform femininity, must be constantly concerned with altering her natural self.

So letting women exist as they are naturally (not wearing makeup, not shaving, wearing comfortable and practical clothing) should not make her less than a woman. Women who exist as themselves are more like women, not more like men.

I will never, ever agree with feminists who attack tradfems for living in the way they see is best for their family… I myself am a person who, for the sake of practicality and my personality, would take on duties in the home as the supportive role. However, while I will never agree with the negative angle of feminism directed at the trad community, the trad community consistently seems to miss a huge point in that often the attack is not “I don’t like how you’re living your life wrong” but “I don’t like how you’re saying this is what’s natural to women”.

As a Christian, I understand and follow the teachings of women in supportive roles, but what does that actually mean?  To me, absolutely nothing to do with the performance of femininity.  Washing dishes for example, is not a feminine act.  A woman is not “releasing her true nature” by doing chores.  It does not make her more of a woman, just as it would not make a man any less than a man.  To say otherwise means that women who support their spouses, homes, communities, and churches in the variety of acceptable vocations we may choose, are somehow imitating men and not acting like “real” women.

#christianity#performative femininity
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