Reminder

As king, whilst pretending to be Odin, Loki did the following:

And that’s just what was shown.

Agree with everything on this list. If only the franchise had framed it that way.

In a supposedly anticolonialist movie they managed to paint the withdrawal of troops from foreign, “less advanced” lands as something lazy and vile, only because Loki was doing it.

Fuck Waititi and his imagined progressive views, his entire brand of wokeness falls apart at the first breeze.

Just want to clarify: The anti-colonialism aspect of the movie was NOT that director’s idea. The whole “Odin conquered the 9 realms and stuff” sequence was not in the original cut and was in fact added during the reshoot, and it’s  Disney/Marvel who decided to add this in, not that director.   No need to credit the director for this. Does he even look like he could come up with this?  He doesn’t seem to have any brilliant ideas other than making up some jokes related to human private parts.

😂 This.

Wow, this is brand new info. Everywhere on Tumblr people have waxed poetic about how Waititi’s POC status led directly to him wanting to tack “complex themes of subjugation” in Gagnarok.

Wowity wow.

But did they not realize that by adding all that in about Odin, they subjugate their hero to the moral code and whims of a character who is esteemed by the narrative yet is as immoral as their villain?

Why is Thor shown to be so moral in defeating Hela, while he is still worshipping Odin? Why is he shown to be so quick to condemn and degrade Loki, when he is still worshipping Odin? Both Hela and Loki were messed up by Odin. And Loki tried to side with Thor 3x in that movie and was rejected each time because Thor was “so pious” he wouldn’t stand for it; Loki did not need to be condemned and humiliated first to get him to side with Thor.

Thor’s differing treatment of the characters makes him look like such a hypocrite and such a fool, like he can’t determine right from wrong for himself. Thor has to rely on Odin’s perspective to make his own judgements on both others and on himself. Odin condemns Hela by projecting his own blame for the subjugation of the realms onto her and her alone, and Thor follows this blindly. Odin condemns Loki for his fits and attacks, without acknowledging what drove him there or how to fix it, so Thor follows this blindly. Thor even needed Odin to come back from the dead to validate his own identity, because Thor cannot form his identity or his viewpoints alone.

The hero does an awful lot of following Odin - but then in the the shoots they paint Odin as a monster.

What a mess!

Why don’t they just write the story from the beginning so it makes sense?

@jadeylovesmarvelxo

This. They said this:

It's not all of what they said, but this is the most obvious.

@thlover94 you asked

BAHAHAHAHAHA!

Chris Hemsworth, please, honestly GO FUCK YOURSELF. LMAO.

Okay, so, listen, this is honestly going to be the last I ever talk about this, but the fact that I've been proven right about this jackasses involvement in this whole affair has got me laughing!

In 2017, or the year previous, who the fuck knows, Chris Hemsworth got his friend, Taika Waititi to direct Thor 3. Thor Ragnarok, which heavily diverged from the cinematography and the lore of the previous two Thor movies. Chris Hemsworth decided Thor was too boring. He didn't like playing him anymore. He wanted to play someone new and fun. He wanted to play himself. And he got just that.

I'll give Ragnarok enough credit, that aye, I might be fooled into thinking there was some interest the title character. But after Love and Thunder? No, now I know I've been fooled into watching a costume party by Chris Hemsworth, his family, and his friends. Ding ding ding! What do we have here, Johnny?

A bottom tier celebrity making a franchise that not only was all about him - his character, but all about him!!! He's playing himself!

His daughter at the end of Thor: Love and Thunder, is his daughter in real life (she's cute, no diss). His two sons played younger versions of him. His wife was a wolf woman he made out with! His best friends Matt fucking Damon and Taika Waititi both star in the role and the latter directs it.

I'm sorry, but at what fucking point did I sign up for a lazy written fanfiction? Because that's sure as hell not what I thought would happen in Thor 1 or 2, or Avengers. And you know, I am still mad, because I enjoyed the OG Thor, I enjoyed the OG Loki, and Marvel and, wow, did it not pay off.

Alas, it's on me for watching any new Thor films (aye, listen, I gotta family here!), but I just wanted to tell anyone who ever said Thor is a walking self insert nowadays. You are completely and utterly spot on.

Applaud yourself.

PS. Full Review* -> Here

Have fun!

I just watched the movie and this post is so eye opening!! I felt like the past few Thor movies felt…sitcom? Marvel flavored sitcom. I’m glad I’m not the only one that didn’t absolutely love the movie.

You are so not alone, and it is indeed a sitcom. This last one was even more apparent than the one before. Bask in the anti posts. I'm sure there will be a lot on Tumblr. 🤣

I was just posting about this! It seems like everywhere TR is still getting praised to heavens and the first two Thor films are getting bashed if not outright ignored. It's frustrating because I don't remember Thor 2011 and TDW getting so much hate until after TR came out.

Definitely a case of “be careful what you wish for”.

They wanted more Taika, and they got it. And now the same people who bashed the first 2 Thor movies for being boring are putting on their rose colored glasses and saying they want to go back?

Yeah. Bed. Made. Lie.

It’s too little too late. You asked for more Taika and frat brother Thor. You got it. Deal with it. It’s what you wanted.

I've seen this in the Star Wars fandom as well. When Taika first started directing for Star Wars, everybody was so excited, praising the decision to bring him in, saying how amazing it would be. I cautioned people about how Taika does franchise films, but I was pretty much disregarded. Just a few years later, most fans I talked to were 100% done with Taika, and dreaded whenever he was slotted to do more Star Wars stuff. Which is good I guess; now they know. But yeah, I wish people had listened to me, and realised earlier the grief they were getting into.

I understand that there are people who like Taika and his work, and that's totally valid. But I don't think he should be doing franchise films. There's a pattern of fans wanting him at first, and then quickly coming to regret it.

I can’t believe I never put this together before, besides generally feeling frustrated on Loki’s behalf, but the reason Loki’s tragedy and mental illness being brushed off as him trying to be “a whiny goth orphan” is so upsetting is because we (the mentally ill) get enough of that irl. 

When you struggle with mental illness, people are always so quick to brush you off as being dramatic, or wanting attention; - or, if they do believe you’re ill, it becomes “just snap out of it,” or “stop being sad,” or they just get tired of your woe-is-me schtick altogether. You end up feeling even more isolated than before bc not only are you struggling, but also “no one understands me” (that phrase gets a lot of shit but it’s a genuine sentiment). 

I’m not saying this is everyone’s universal experience or that there aren’t those who do support you the way you need - just, it’s very likely that, more often than not, you’ve experienced your mental health being invalidated, even (especially) by those closest to you (I literally just don’t talk about it with my mom anymore bc, despite her “best intentions,” she never understood why I couldn’t just willpower my way out of it and I got tired of trying to explain it). 

Loki’s trauma, subsequent mental breakdown, and general ill mental health are real and valid struggles that deserved to be dealt with appropriately. But, barring that (since, to be fair, it’s Thor’s movie and a whole mental health journey for Loki may not have fit), it should at least be acknowledged as a valid struggle that the character needs to overcome. Or, if it was going to be brushed off, then someone in-universe needed to at least comment or establish that burying your trauma and repressing your sadness, especially for the sake of making other people comfortable, is neither healthy nor sustainable. 

Loki doesn’t get those courtesies. In-universe, he’s written as having somehow overcome his issues off-screen (at best) or written as just being emo for the sake of it (at worst). Out-of-universe, the director doubles-down on that perspective. By saying that Loki is “trying to be an emo goth kid,” he’s subsequently dismissing not only Loki’s mental health issues, but those of us who also struggle and likely see ourselves in Loki and are kinda tired of being told that our illness is not valid. 

#but see this is the kind of thing i mean#when i say that tw doesn’t have the emotional capacity#to even so much as *address* mental health#even outside of the movie#it’s a joke to him#i don’t know him personally nor do i know his journey or feelings on mental health#but by using his public platform to dismiss the idea of mental illness#depression anxiety isolation etc#that is the image of himself that he is conveying to his audience#by furthermore using his movie as a vessel to brush off loki’s issues#he’s further cementing that image#and look the movie doesn’t have to be about loki or doesn’t need to be about loki#in order for loki’s struggles to be treated respectfully#i hate the ‘omg it’s thor’s movie’ argument bc yes it is thor’s movie and not loki’s#but as a major supporting character loki still should be portrayed well and consistently#unless you think that it being thor’s movie means literally no other character arcs matter#which is kinda bad storytelling tbh#don’t come for me i’m just in a mood#ragnarok critical#anti ragnarok#anti taika waititi#if you like ragnarok skip this post#it is tagged appropriately so if you reblog please also tag appropriately#i don’t want any discourse just civil discussion#tw mental health#tw mental illness#loki pokey artichokey (tags via @iamanartichoke )

Not trying to start shit, but it would be pretty schadenfreudilicious if they asked Tom to reprise Loki in Thor 4 and Tom turned them down bc why would he subject Loki to that again, epecially after his own series (we hope) gives him back the depth and complexity he deserves? 

I want this with every fibre of my being. I want Tom to be free to continue developing his wonderful work in the world of acting, free from CH and TW's shitshow of humiliation and derision.

But. I also see Tom as the kind of guy who would feel obligated to say yes to his employers, no matter how terrible the experience and damage to his character.

I don't think CH or TW want Tom in the film, because his skill is a threat to CH's fragile ego. Unfortunately, I think Disney wants Tom in the film, because Disney wants money, and they know that a large portion of fans that would not normally see the movie WOULD see it if Tom were in it.

So Loki will show up in the film for just like 5 minutes, get punched or thrown by Thor and yelled at for circumstances beyond his control, and then the movie will go back to Thor making dick jokes and having pissing contests with Peter Quill.

Literally the only reason Loki didn’t have more story in IW and Endgame was that his natural story progression would have him become a hero and an Avenger and the Russo’s apparently desperately hated that idea *mic drop*

His progression into a solidified anti-hero would be too character-centric and compelling for the rest of their plot-driven storyline. He would have overshadowed the entire story. 

In Infinity War, positive character development with a grey character like Loki would overshadow Thanos’ villainy and also distract from the shock of the deaths and losses. We know the shock value of the plot is the most important part of the story to the Russo’s. In Endgame, any positive character development or a revival with a grey character like Loki would yet again overshadow the shock value of the deaths and losses of the main characters. 

People would say, “Oh well Thanos is bad lots of deaths oooh no, but guess what? Loki became a good guy!” or, “Oh well that hero died, ohh no their contract was up. But hey! At least Loki came back!” 

Loki would become too relevant in contrast to the other characters. He would become too discussed. The character would overshadow the plot.

The Russo’s do not care about Loki. They care about Thanos and they care about their plot, and therefore Loki has to go. Because the audience tends to focus upon Loki, they tend to bicker and argue about Loki. Why is Loki so talked about? Because Loki is controversial and more realistic than a lot of the other characters. The tug-of-war and cognitive dissonance he creates, between what we see and believe, and what we feel and perceive… It stirs people up. It’s just a pity Marvel are too simple minded and cowardly to tackle a character like that. They insist on trying to simplify him. 

It is ironic actually. Russos tried their very best to keep Loki’s influence in IW to a minimum.  They knew they had to use his death to establish Thanos as the ultimate villain. Including Loki in that film was a necessity despite them not wanting to have him overshadow Thanos. To prevent the general public from finding Loki’s role in IW interesting in any way, after test screenings they cut all the scenes in which Loki was shown to be more resourceful and heroic. They were determined to have Loki killed in the most ridiculous and grotesque fashion. By showing the whole ugly death struggle and snap,  they wanted to demonstrate how insignificant, unworthy and unappealing he was at his final moment.

They mistakenly thought with Loki going out in the first 5 minutes, after the initial shock, nobody would give much thought about him and that he would be soon forgotten, especially with a much bigger “shock”—dusting half of the universe population including Spider-Man—ending the movie.  They gleefully imagined that they finally had their Darth Vader who could be remembered 100 years later.  They anticipated that everybody would start worshiping Thanos for his power and strength and his victory over a group of superheroes, however uncharacteristically incompetent and stupid they all were in the movie. They figured, by extension, they would become directors worshiped by everyone as well.

To their chagrin, after the movie came out, Loki’s death was the only death everybody was interested in talking about. The Russos tried to solicit feedbacks on IW, but everywhere they went, other than on Reddit where Loki’s death was celebrated by a bunch of unemployed fanboys, they were bombarded with Loki comments and complaints about his death. Russos said themselves in many interviews, looking visibly upset and deeply annoyed, “we killed half of the universe and Loki is the one everybody talks about.” “Loki? Yeah, we get asked about Loki all day long…”

Instead of recognizing their mistake for mindlessly butchering and murdering a colorful and rich character for the sake of a nonsensical and illogical plot and their precious Thanos who turned out to be as uninteresting as any other Marvel villain sans Loki, and instead of correcting their stupid mistake, they doubled down on treating Loki and Loki fans like garbage. 

With vengeance they spilled out one insult after another towards Loki, Loki fans and even Tom.  For a whole year they kept saying Loki deserved to die because he made his own bed with Thanos. They didn’t think Loki dying for Thor was anything remarkable or meaningful, definitely not something worthy of their comment. Never once did they acknowledge or answer questions from Loki fans why Loki had to die in that absurd way, using a butter knife and none of his powers. The only time they remotely commented on why Loki had to die they said it was time to close the final pages of the (Loki) story. And they didn’t make any effort explaining why it was good for Loki’s character arc, instead they said it was for Thor’s benefit. At the same time they implied Tom was aging so that he could not play Loki forever. They mocked Tom on his birthday for aging.  

They constantly trolled Loki fans, calling killing Loki made them feel great, saying all Loki fans tears tasted sweet, saying their movies were not made for Loki fans but for a much wider audience. Their ultimate retaliation to all those people who complained about Loki’s death was cutting every single Loki scene shot for EG, except the ones they had to keep to either indicate time travel destination or get more reactions from the audience, and removing every single mention of Loki as well. Even then they tried to keep Loki’s presence in his only surviving scenes as small as possible: Just look at all the Loki shots, very few closeups and all quick cuts to move away (a skilled director would most likely do a closeup shot of Loki’s reaction after Loki grabs tesserat, but nope, Russos opted for a quick far shot of Loki disappearing that has his face completely obscured which reduced greatly the impact of his disappearance).

Their goal was to diminish Loki as much as possible, they succeeded much better this time with EG.  After the movie Loki is no longer the character everybody is talking about.  Fat Thor, nerfed Hulk, Black Widow’s equally meaningless death, Iron Man snapping despite availability of much more powerful beings such as CM, CA going back to marry Peggy after kissing her grand niece????… There are so many complaints to be made that grievance about Loki is no longer the only thing that stands out…

On top of that, majority of Loki fans seem to be more content that a 2012 version of Loki is out there somewhere, despite seeing Loki for only 30 seconds in the movie. Some are even saying they are grateful to the Russos for those 30 seconds of Loki and for saying that a 2012 version of Loki might be alive somewhere…

Russos are celebrating no doubt. After condemning Loki to the worst possible death in the MCU, after treating Loki fans like crap for a year, the Russos may finally have won the war against Loki fans.

Together with the director of the parody film, they managed to tarnish and damage Loki permanently. It would take a miracle to repair the damage done to this once marvelous character, especially when Marvel has no intention nor ability to do so.

All I can say is that Loki fans, I mean genuine Loki fans who actually care about him (not those self-claimed Loki fans who laugh and clap when seeing Loki being tortured and berated by Thor, not those self-claimed Loki fans who say Loki is very happy being subordinate to Thor, and certainly not those self-claimed Loki fans who think Loki deserved his grotesque death because dying for Thor again and again was so so so so wonderful) should be prepared for what might come, and be more prepared for what will never come.

buckle up lads bc I’m awake and I’m fuckin mad

so, if you’ve spent 0.0003 seconds in the loki tag, I’m sure you’ve seen thousands of comments about him being an overdramatic diva who has a penchant for making mountains out of molehills. taika himself even described loki as “someone who tries so hard to embody this idea of the tortured artist, this tortured, gothy orphan.”

excuse me, what the fuck?

loki isn’t just some rawr xd theatre kid who’s mad at odin for taking away his club penguin subscription. loki was abused, and I’m frankly sick and fucking tired of people trying to downplay or just straight up gloss over that.

in thor 1, we see that loki has been emotionally and psychologically manipulated. he was told his entire life to despise the very realm that odin had stolen him from. the second he discovers what he is, he realises that he and thor never have been (and will never be) equal in the eyes of the man he once loved and called father.

at the end of that movie, loki feels so abandoned, so alone and hated and ostracised, that he attempts suicide. he is then caught, tortured and mind controlled by thanos, forced into leading an invasion he wanted no real part in, and then is dragged back to asgard where he is told by his abuser that he would have been better off dying as a child surrounded by the corpses of his would-be subjects.

loki is told that the only reason odin isn’t going to slaughter him is because of his mother. when she later dies, he is deliberately excluded from her funeral and has his only chance to say a proper farewell snatched away from him. he is left in a prison cell to slowly be driven and by his own grief and guilt, and this time he has no visitors to distract him from these thoughts.

when thor says “I wish I could trust you”, that’s a direct jab at loki. that’s an attempt to get him to soften and say that it’s okay, he’s forgiven everything that’s been done to him in the past. but loki isn’t stupid. his “ trust my rage” is a warning, a reminder that he is furious at thor, odin and everyone else who turned a blind eye to his torment. the anger is burning him alive from the inside out, and the memory of frigga is the only thing keeping him from striking a match and razing the whole wretched realm down to the ground.

I don’t care that taika put in a single line of odin saying he loves loki. that changes absolutely nothing of what I’ve said above. the cat can whisper the sweetest of praises to the mouse trapped under its paw, but empty words will do nothing to dull the sting of its claws as they sink in.

loki is allowed to be angry. he’s allowed to be upset. he’s allowed to be hurt. he’s allowed to reject an out of character deathbed apology that came more from moral obligation than genuine feelings.

say it with me folks: loki does not have to feign forgiveness for the comfort of others, least of all people like odin who were direct contributors to his suffering.

Thank you SO MUCH for this!!!

@philosopherking1887 I wish I didn’t see this article that you linked in @lokiloveforever​  ‘s post, and remained blissfully unaware of all other awful things that TW has said about our beloved characters and the franchise we loved. At the same time I’m happy because it basically confirms everything we were saying this whole time. So thank you for it. While I was reading it, I had to remind myself that using my phone to break my laptop’s screen won’t do anything good. Instead I’m going to list all the reason’s that TW’s own words refute some of TR fans points and how it proves that Ragnarok isn’t part of MCU. Fair warning: this might resembles a rant because I’m really angry right now.

- “Ragnarok characterizations are like comics more than any other movie.”

Hate to break it to you but,

Cool art but he didn’t like how everyone talked? Well, you know who he reminds me of?

He removed one of the things that made Thor franchise unique and interesting, simply because he didn’t like it. And came up with this nonsense that Thor learned it from Tony, wait no, from RDJ, as an excuse.

“Yeah, Thor spent two years on Earth hanging out with Robert Downey, Jr.” Waititi explained. “So he’s got some sass. He knows a little bit more about irony and sarcasm now. He’s got a little bit of Earth humor.” [X]

Like two years of being on Earth in comparison with more than a thousand years on Asgard can change someone’s speech patterns.

Again with the rich kid comments.

“Thor and Loki are just two rich kids from outer space and we shouldn’t really give a sh*t about what their problems are.” [X]

This also shows he didn’t even watch or understood the previous movies. The whole point of the first Thor movie, was that this rich kid that we apparently shouldn’t give a shit about his problems, had fallen from grace and felt guilt for his wrong actions and tried to be a better person. But apparently the TR version, who thinks he’s a hero and always right and has the audacity to judge and use every character for his own goals feels guilt and is annoyed at his behavior. Yeah, okay.

The picture is taken from this post.

And don’t get me start on Bruce/Hulk. This bipolar, angry green beast who a lot of children have found empathetic, and who some of us boring, whining nerds can identify with has never felt guilt about his actions. It’s not like he tried to commit suicide because of his guilt and self-loathing. It’s not like Hulk has enough heart and intelligence to be upset about hurting innocent people in AoU after he was snapped out of Wanda’s mind control. But apparently killing slaves for sport and not feeling guilty about it give the character more dimensions. Right.

But, hey, as far as TW is concerned, people like Bruce and Loki who are suicidal and have mental illness are just whiny and need to get over themselves.

“Taika Waititi (…) is swift to launch into a description of Loki, the unbeloved son of Asgard, as, “someone who tries so hard to embody this idea of the tortured artist, this tortured, gothy orphan.” He’s discussing the character’s emotional arc in the film, one that sees him put away his childish fixations and step up to save his city from obliteration; to put into perspective his petty family squabbles and realise a home is still a home.” [X]

Anyone still thinks TW is not talking like an ableist?

And don’t forget that being pretty, talking and looking beautiful, not being able to fight like a warrior, and being a nerd are character flaws and make people boring.

“[With Valkyrie] I wanted to make sure we weren’t making a female character that was boring and pretty. What I wanted was someone who was going to play the opposite and be even more of the ‘guy’ character than the guys.” 

I wonder why I am reminded of the bullies I encountered in my life!? (I don’t)

- “TW loved those characters. Otherwise he wouldn’t use them in his film.”

Yeah, no. Not true. Because of all the above reasons about Thor and Hulk and all the reasons I listed in this post about Loki.

Oh, Look! he just confirmed this recent post of mine:

And yours too @magicmastered.  Btw, I completely support your idea to call Ragnarok universe “RCU”.

Also TR lacking emotions was a deliberate choice by the director. Like Korg’s line when Asgard was destroyed was intentionally put there to undermine the scene’s entire impact. 

Can someone please explain to me, a non-privileged person who’s always struggled with economical problems, that why being privileged and rich is considered a bad thing?

Again this is another proof that TW didn’t see and understood the previous movies. Asgard had a warrior culture and looked down on magic users(Loki). Magic that Thor explained was science that humans still don’t understand. Asgard has no parties? Yeah, like it’s totally true:

TW was so allergic to emotions that he changed Odin’s death scene because the audience reacted to it with too strong emotions! Imagine that!

Yeah, yeah, I know, we need to smile more!

The article ends with this paragraph.

“It’s important to remember that Taika Waititi didn’t make Thor: Ragnarok in isolation. He was chosen to direct this film by Marvel Studios off the back of black comedies, and they supported him in all his creative decisions. That may well indicate that Waititi’s distaste with the Thor franchise is shared by Marvel, that they consider the last two to number among their weakest, and that they too wanted to toss the old aside in favor of a straightforward superhero comedy.”

And I agree. TW is not the only person I blame for TR. CH and Marvel Studios are all to blame for making a mockery of the franchise and characters we loved.

^^^This is the moment I stopped loving MCU Thor. For me personally, in this moment he went from a big shiny ray of hope that everything would work out okay to a big mean-spirited school yard bully. An asshole. Not the way Tony is a charming, funny, I-say-mean-things-but-I’m-hiding-a-heart-of-gold asshole. I mean an asshole. The guy who knocked stuff out of your hands in the hallway in high school and laughed about it. The guy who decides to pants you when you’ve finally worked up the nerve to ask out your crush. Someone you wouldn’t want to be friends with. That asshole. And I will forever be salty at Marvel, Waititi, and even Hemsworth for diminishing the glorious, good-hearted God of Thunder and turning him into Biff Tannen.

He isn’t bullying him though, Loki was about to betray him for the uptenth time and Thor was just sick of it. He told Loki a hard truth. Loki can be more and became more. He came to the aid of Thor at the end and Thor accepts him with open arms. He isn’t being a bully, a bully wouldn’t give you actual advice. Wouldn’t tell you a truth you need to hear. Everything Thor says to Loki here is true.

Can we just break your statement down line by line? Cause I’m really trying to understand where you’re coming from. And if this is the only movie in the Thor franchise you’ve seen, I’d suggest you go back and watch Thor, Avengers, and Thor: The Dark World. That said, here we go.

He isn’t bullying him though, Loki was about to betray him for the uptenth time and Thor was just sick of it.

When, outside of Ragnarok, did Loki betray Thor? Obviously the first thing that comes to mind is when Loki let Jotuns into the vault to stop Thor’s coronation in the first Thor film. I grant that is a form of betrayal, though Thor choosing to go to Jotunheim and ending up banished to Earth is entirely his own doing. Attempting genocide to end the war Thor started with Jotunheim with minimal loss of life to Asgard? Shitty thing to do, but not exactly a betrayal of Thor. Beyond that, there is no canon evidence of Loki ever betraying Thor. They lived and fought side by side for over 1,000 years.

Marvel has confirmed that Loki was being manipulated by the scepter so we can’t really count anything from Avengers. Loki may or may not have acted of his own free will, we don’t know until Marvel clarifies the extent of the control Thanos was exerting over Loki.

In Thor: The Dark World Loki betrayed Thor… How exactly? By saving Jane? By taking a blade through his chest and somehow not dying? By offering Thor the throne as Odin at the end of the film?

He told Loki a hard truth.

Thor told Loki his opinion of him, far from a hard truth. What actual truth is Thor supposedly telling Loki? 

Loki can be more and became more.

Loki did exactly what he did in TDW, minus the almost dying part. All Thor did with his speech was to reinforce the narcissistic abuse of Odin that both of them were (until Ragnarok) growing out of, i.e. Thor being the golden child and Loki being the scapegoat.

He came to the aid of Thor at the end and Thor accepts him with open arms.

Except Thor didn’t. He threw something at Loki to see if he was really there before proposing to go to Earth where Loki would most likely be condemned as a war criminal.

He isn’t being a bully, a bully wouldn’t give you actual advice.

Again, what advice? To grow and change? Something they were both doing until the retcon of Ragnarok.

Wouldn’t tell you a truth you need to hear. 

What truth?

Everything Thor says to Loki here is true.

How?

This movie made absolutely no sense. There were massive plot holes and all the previously known characters were acting entirely out of character to what had already been established. It talked down to the audience. I wanted to like this movie so much, but I just can’t.

@philosopherking1887 @mastreworld @fadingcoast @latent-thoughts 

Did I miss anything? If anyone else would like to chime in please feel free to do so, but keep it polite and respectful. 

I think you covered it well. There was no truth told by Thor since his words didn’t make sense in light of what we’ve learned about Loki in the earlier movies. Thor has stubbornly refused to listen to Loki’s grievances but this scene takes his denial to ridiculous heights.

And yes, bullies do give you “advice” if you want to call it that. They tell you, in both actions and words, that if you just change and stop being “wrong” in their eyes, they will stop attacking you.

Loki resonates with marginalized people because he’s one of us, and in this scene, he’s treated like one of us; told to change because he’s not good enough, all the while his bully twists reality and claim things that aren’t even close to the mark.

I’ve had enough with this shit in the real world. Bully culture disgusts me, and I sure as hell don’t want to see someone treated like this in fiction without getting justice and recognition afterward.

. 

I have nothing to add. I just wish that that miserable movie it never existed…

Every time I read something like that, up there, my heart is broken from all the damages it done to Loki and us, particularly, but also at the MCU fandom

TLDR: what happened between Loki und Thor (and between Waititi and the audience) in Gagnarok was gaslighting. Hard cold facts were twisted, omitted or lied about to deny Loki his hard won character growth in TWD and make him not only fall behind Thor once again, but to be “deserving” of abandonment and corporal punishment.

Which is exactly what bullies do.

Don’t ever fucking tell me this isn’t exactly what Thor ‘imagined slights’ Odinson has always done to Loki. Ragnarok just took it to the extreme.