@jbuffyangel / jbuffyangel.tumblr.com
This is so cool y’all!! Marc Guggenheim and Marv Wolfman have written a 100 page CANON comic book story that ties directly into the Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover and... (wait for it)...
IT IS NARRATED BY FELICITY SMOAK.
They created a whole friggin comic book to give us more Felicity Smoak content. Her power knows no limits. Looks like I’m buying my first comic book.
Which do you think we should take as canon, the comic or canary cry? Personally, I am okay with acting like certain scenes never happened lol.
Well that’s sort of the fun isn’t it? Show canon always carries a bit more weight for me, but those scenes just didn’t match up with what Arrow has already filmed. So, for me, I’m holding to the 1.5 comics. That’s what makes sense to me. I’m just chalking up the 4x19 flashbacks as Arrow’s attempt at a peace offering.
luvsumtv reblogged your post oliverdant: I found this interestin... and added:
I rewatched episode one of season 2- it never really mentions if Oliver went to Tommy’s funeral. But Oliver and LL...
Yup. You are right it’s never mentioned in the show, but I have an old copy of a Comic Con mag. Oliver did go to Tommy’s funeral in the comics. He eulogized him. I scanned it in for people to read :)
If you’re Olicity shipper and Nyssara shipper then you really need to buy this issue Arrow 2.5 23
^^^yes we do.
So..remember how in my Oh Enough Already post I said I LOVED comic book fans? That 99.999% are an absolute gift to the fandom? That they are intelligent, articulate and teach me so much about my favorite show?
THIS. THIS PERSON EK exemplifies that. If you ever wanted to learn about The Arrow comics. If you ever wanted to know the history of the comics and how that impacts the show today. If you ever wanted to understand WHY comic book canon is such a ridiculous argument against Olicity READ THIS POST. It is articulate, well reasoned, well researched, intelligent, fair, balanced, polite and quite frankly it’s
And most importantly…it’s from an Arrow COMIC BOOK FAN who’s also an ARROW FAN. Your insights my dear are simply amazing and you have taught me so much. I cannot imagine how long this took you to write but I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I really appreciate it. I field a lot of questions regarding this subject and this single post explained more than I could EVER learn on my own. You are a gift to the Arrow fandom. You are a gift to the Olicity fandom. Thank you!
Archers. Olicity Fandom. Get Ready. EK Lays the HAMMER DOWN….
seeing you having to argue with comic book fanatics over Olicity vs Lauriver makes me glad that the entire agents of shield main cast are comic canon foreigners. After all, what does a name matter if the heart is not engaged?
Totally agree. What matters is the characters and how they engage with one another and the audience. It doesn’t matter if the character resonates in the comics if it doesn’t resonate on the show. THE SHOW is what everyone is watching. THE SHOW is what matters.
I actually think the majority of The Arrow fandom are comic novices. The Green Arrow comics are just not as popular as other comics like Batman, Superman, Spiderman. Oliver Queen’s story is unknown to most of the general public, which is why the writers can get away with deviating from the comics. Honestly, most of us (including myself) don’t know any better. To most of us Arrow the TV show is the canon that counts.
I think that irritates some of the comic purists. You know, the fact that majority of the fandom takes Arrow the TV show as canon. In a way, I kinda understand their frustration but as a comic book fan I also appreciate the exposure the comics get thanks to all the popular media these days.
Now a days there are so many comic related TV shows and Movies. More people around the world are getting familiar with comic book characters and want to learn more about them. Where as even 10-15 years ago, vast majority hadn’t a clue about many of these characters. Yeah, pretty much every person in the world may have heard of Superman, Batman or Spider-Man. But that’s pretty much it. Also, not too long ago knowing about comics tend to classify you as a geek or a nerd. Now, it’s cool to have knowledge of them.That alone should be celebrated.
I know sometimes long time comic fanatics tend to be annoyed by all the attention comics getting these day and think others have no right crashing into something they all used as a safe place or an escape. As for me, I welcome any and all fans and I know many comic book fans feel the same way I do. The more exposure we get to a genre such as comics, the better it is for it’s future. I never imagined in my wildest dreams that I’ll ever get to see all my heroes growing up coming alive on a screen (not animated). That’s not the case anymore and it’s very exciting for me.
In regards to Arrow, most fans even know about the superhero Green Arrow is thanks to TV Arrow. My view is that they are two different mediums. What’s worked for one may not work for the other. And it’s perfectly fine. I for one am thankful to have a great TV show like Arrow. All I care about is that they tell wonderful, compelling stories worthy of that hero and I get to see it on my TV screen every week. Also, I’m hoping it’ll encourage more people who are curious about Green Arrow to go buy the comics. Which is gonna be a good day for everyone right…
Bra-freaking-vo. Well said my friend.
I apologize if my answer seemed a little short and quippy. It's around 3:30 am in my world so I tend to get lippy. lol I don't mean any disrespect to the comics. There would be NO Arrow TV show without the comics. First and foremost, Arrow must be a quality TV show, with quality characters & storylines so it HONORS the comics. I simply believe Arrow has done that in spades.
I can certainly understand why comic book fans get frustrated with The Arrow fandom. There's a good lot of us that are just clueless about the comics, myself included. It's not meant as disrespect, but it's the show we are interested in. In arguments of canon, what has happened on the show is what matters most. That's not saying comic canon isn't important, but Arrow shouldn't be judged by that alone. If I got angry at Joss Whedon for not including Pike (Luke Perry) from the BTVS movie in the TV show, I would have missed out on an amazing show. If I got angry every time TVD deviated from the books, I wouldn't have made it past the pilot. Again, I'd miss out on great entertainment. My frustration is with the comic book purists who insist that Arrow the TV show must follow the comic books to the letter. Any deviation from the comics is viewed as sacrilege. It's illogical to expect that because it's a ratings killer. We can all just swing by our local comic book store and see what's happening on Arrow next week. It also completely removes the creativity from the Arrow writing staff, a group of people who I believe are master story tellers. Again, you said it wonderfully - they are two separate mediums. What works for one, doesn't work for another. We should all appreciate both separately and rejoice when there is a connective thread between them.
Anon asked: What you think about Felicity being married to Ed Raymond in the comics? He will also appear in the new Flash on the CW? Do you think this will be played out? Or did you ever considered Olicity being endgame? Because Oliver is married to BC in the comics and Felicity is married to this guy Ed Raymond. Consider an Olicity endgame? Oh my friend, I BELIEVE in an Olicity endgame. There is no question in my mind, the writers fully intend Oliver & Felicity to be the romantic focus of the show and the romantic end to the show. You can scroll down a little bit and see what I have to say about comic book canon ;) There's been a lot of concern that Felicity Smoak will be transferred over to The Flash. It's just NOT going to happen people. Hell will freeze over before The Arrow writers let EBR go. They know they've hit chemistry gold with EBR and Stephen Amell and that a large part of Arrow's success depends on the popularity of Felicity Smoak and her relationship with Oliver & Diggle, romantic or not. If you are ever worried about it check out the Twitter arguments between The Flash writers and The Arrow writers over The Flash threatening (teasing) they are going to steal Felicity. IT WAS ON...The Arrow writers have no intention of losing her. The Arrow writers have PAINSTAKINGLY written a strong, detailed foundation to the Olicity love story. They have made this relationship one of the anchors of the show. They handle the relationship with the utmost care. There's a reason why we call it a slow burn. They are slowly and gently unveiling the story between Oliver & Felicity because they don't want to rush it. They want to savor it. Moment by moment, they are teasing the audience with this relationship...giving us what we want and then pulling back so we beg for more. It is clear there is a long term plan in play. Why would the writers go through all that trouble if they intend for Felicity to end up with a different character on a different show. It's illogical. Will there be cross overs? You bet. SPOILERS!!! However, from what I’ve heard about the Flash pilot - Felicity Smoak and her relationship with Barry was nearly completely written out. I think Felicity’s “role” in the Flash will be much less than originally anticipated. Yes, Felicity is crossing over on Ep. 4 for a date with Barry, but the point of that date is to wrap up the Barry/Felicity romance storyline that was started on Arrow, so The Flash writers can focus on the Barry/Iris romance and The Arrow writers can focus on the Oliver/Felicity/Ray Palmer love triangle. To say Edward Raymond & Felicity Smoak will get married because of the comics doesn’t make any sense. It's SHOW cannon that matters, not comic book cannon. EBR has repeatedly stated she’s never read the comics. Her incarnation of Felicity Smoak is completely different from the character in the comics. She was a bit part for one episode. The writers just chose the name “Felicity Smoak” as an easter egg for comic book fans. They never anticipated the popularity of the character. The writers have repeatedly stated they write Felicity very differently from the past comic books. It’s why the “new” Felicity Smoak character in New 52 is such a huge deal - that character is based on the TV show similar to Diggle. Furthermore, if the writers were following Edward Raymond & Firestorm from the comics why is he engaged to Caitlin Snow in the Flash? If he’s meant for Felicity, why not bring him on Arrow? They are bringing on a love interest for Felicity in S3 - Ray Palmer/The Atom. They could have easily have done Firestorm if they were following comic book cannon to the letter. It would also remove the hassle of schedules & crossovers. This is no little thing. Crossovers are a pain. They are difficult to shoot, difficult to schedule. Yes, Arrow is embracing it more than other shows, but mark my words there will be a shift once The Flash can stand on it's own two feet. For each series to be successful there needs to be some independence. Starting a long term relationship between two characters on two different shows anchors The Flash & Arrow is an unnecessary & complicated way. It's littered with problems and doesn't make sense. So, no I don’t think just because Edward Raymond is in the Flash means without a doubt Felicity Smoak will marry him. Rather, my guess is the Edward Raymond character will have similarities to the comic book version but The Flash writers will put their own twist on it. Bottom line? The writers of both Arrow and The Flash LOVE easter eggs. They love to wink at the comics without actually following the comics. Many of these characters are a homage to their comic book versions. Just because a name or a character pops up in either show doesn't mean the writers are following the comic book storyline to the letter. That's simply not the way the show is written. Doesn't that take the intrigue out of the show? If the writers are simply copying everything that's in the comics, where are any of us watching the show? Why not just go buy the damn comics and read up. Then we'll know what's coming up on Arrow. Again, it's completely illogical for the writers to write the show like that. It removes any suspense, mystery & creativity and is a ratings KILLER. It's no different than fans asking what comic book heroes are showing up in the shows or who Oliver will end up with. Umm..yeah, like they are going to tell us that. Using the comics as a blueprint is like showing your hand in a million dollar poker match and then going all in. You just told everybody how to fucking beat you. What's the point now of the bet? We all know how it's going to end. Finally, and this is most important, if Felicity Smoak is going to marry ANYBODY it will be Oliver Queen.
Anon asked: What is your take on this Olicity vs Lauriver and comic book fans debate? Do you think that just because Oliver and Laurel are canon in the comics that they’re meant to be? Do you think comic book fans are being neglected by the writers and Eps?
Oh man. You just hit my hot button issue. Forgive me, but this argument drives me ABSOLUTELY CRAZY!!!!!
The comic books serve as SOURCE MATERIAL. This distinction is important. Source material means the writers can pull whatever stories from the comics and put their own twist on it. It does not mean they need to follow the comics verbatim. The Arrow writers have said MANY times that they aren’t using the comics as a Bible. I think the Green Arrow has been around for like 75 years. There’s just too many fucking stories and variations to keep track of. It’s no different than Joss Whedon using the Buffy The Vampire Slayer movie as source material for S1 of the TV show. They were TWO completely different versions, but yet contained some related material. Same with Vampire Diaries. The writers are using the teen novels as source material. They pull general ideas & characters from the books but are by no means following the books to the letter. In fact, the TV show and books differ vastly.
Let’s talk Lauriver. If we are going to use the comics as the only reason WHY Oliver is going to end with Laurel, I believe it’s a faulty argument. Which comic book variation are we going to use as the bible of Arrow? The one where Oliver is married to Dinah like in old comics or the more recent where he & Dinah are divorced or in the New 52 where they don’t even know each other? You can’t use one without using another variation as an argument against it, so comic book canon is simply a weak argument.
Furthermore, there are multiple characters on Arrow that are not in the comic books. Even characters that are in the comic books have been changed so much they are almost unrecognizable. Both Diggle & Felicity were added to the New 52 series, so they’ll be as much comic book “canon” and Dinah Laurel Lance. Again, which variation do we choose? It’s impossible to know.
This isn’t in your question, but I think it’s worth bringing up. Some of the savvier Lauriver fans cite copyright laws as the reason Laurel & Oliver MUST end up together. Copyright law is extremely complicated, I was in Marketing for years, much too complicated to get into it here. But I’ll just say this - DC Comics is owned by Warner Brothers. If copyright laws, DC Comics & WB demand that The Green Arrow end up with Dinah Laurel Lance, they how come The Green Arrow didn’t marry the Black Canary on Smallville? He married Chloe, a completely made up/non comic book character. At the time Smallville aired, it was owned by Warner Brothers. The Smallville writers would’ve needed permission from the WB same as Arrow. So, if they were allowed to do deviate from the BC Green Arrow storyline, why would Arrow be any different? WB copyright means they have exclusive rights to the DC comics, whereby they can determine permission and usage of said concept. Arrow must get story line approval & character usage approval from the WB & DC Entertainment, which they’ve confirmed they do. However, that doesn’t mean copyright will enforce a certain story line, because again it goes back to the first issue, which is story variation. Which story of the Green Arrow does the copyright enforce? The one where he’s with BC or the one where he isn’t? The good news is - it’s both. So the Arrow writers CAN use a story line where the Green Arrow doesn’t end up with Black Canary.
There’s also an issue on Arrow that the comics don’t face. Laurel Lance on Arrow is an extremely polarizing character - you either love her or hate her. She’s so polarizing that nearly all the marketing materials, press releases, social media etc, either removed Laurel entirely, pushed her to the back (photos) or downplayed her role (episode synopsis, press releases). Any marketing for Arrow either prominently features Team Arrow (Oliver, Diggle, Felicity) or Oliver & Felicity. These sorts of decisions also come from up top. The WB is approving this just as they are approving potential story lines. The WB wants to make money. That’s it’s number one priority. Felicity Smoak and her relationship with Oliver Queen & their popularity make money. They wouldn’t be marketing it that way if they didn’t. My other issue with the comic book canon argument is that it completely ignores what’s happening on the show. The show’s CANON is what matters most. Had this been S1, maybe we could argue that Laurel & Oliver were endgame. However, there’s been a HUGE shift in the show during S2, which I go into further detail in my Oliver Queen Mansion confessions post.
Finally, and I believe this is most important, Marc G. has stated that the key to writing is to have a good plan and then to know when to throw that plan out. Felicity Smoak was a happy accident. Laurel Lance, for whatever reason, failed to connect the broader audience. It doesn’t mean she’ll be removed from Arrow but I believe the Arrow writers have changed their focus on the character. I also believe Laurel can be the Black Canary and be AWESOME without being romantically involved with Oliver. One is not dependent on the other.
I don’t believe comic book fans are being ignored. The Green Arrow comics are currently airing as a TV show. An extremely popular, lucrative TV show. What more do they want? Arrow is an extremely well written show, with fantastic plot lots, interesting characters, amazing action and real emotional depth. They’ve treated each and every character, whether they are in the comics or not, with respect. Arrow more than honors the comics. If the comic books fans want to see a specific storyline, my suggestion is…go read the comic again. Arrow is a different beast, a different medium and a different audience. If they can’t appreciate it as such, then I suggest they stop watching the show.
Am I the only one who don't like the portrayal of Felicity in the comic books? I just don't like the big boobs and really short skirt. I mean there nothing wrong with a woman being sexy just not objectified.
Was she super sexed up? I thought her cover picture was pretty sexy but the pictures inside the comic weren’t so bad. I think it goes with the territory. I haven’t looked at many comics, but from what I have seen the women are typically depicted in an overly sexualized way. It’s the nature of the beast. Frustrating, perhaps but Arrow (the show) also sexed Felicity up when they decide to make her an Oliver Queen love interest - more makeup, shorter skirts, sexy cutouts in dresses and so on. Sex sells. I guess I was more excited she was in the comic. I took her appearance as a win…regardless of her appearance. ;) Honestly, I thought the makeover was pretty tame from a comic book standpoint.
